In search of my marbles and balls...

[Solarist]

Thanks Boston23,

 

I don't think I even noticed how I was writing about myself - thank you for pointing it out. And your right about the social anxiety - I suppose I was being defensive about it but really it is just a fact that I have grown this way over time and I am working on correcting myself of this issue - everyone has some baggage that ends up effect how they view and interact with the world around them and it doesn't make them less of a person, just one with baggage.

 

I am a nice guy whom has done some not as nice things and indeed most of them were defense mechanisms to try to keep the world in control around me and am working on finding better ways to achieve my goals.

 

Thank you for the support with the OM, especially with my children. I think it effected me more than the rest because it was another aspect of my life being consumed by this guy - first I lost a friend, then I am struggling with my wife, and I am worried about losing the kids also. But your right - I should stay my course and continue to work on myself and hopefully everything else will fall in place. I didn't take the American Idol bit too bad at all - it was more an example of something that would have used to throw me in a panic. Completely harmless and there is nothing wrong with someone pointing out someone else is attractive, especially an non-accessible one such as him.

 

The TV/date one is still a situation I have a struggle with and I don't know how hard I should push on her about it. My wife is highly uncomfortable leaving the kids with anyone so pretty much we never get to go out. I have tried to provide examples of people whom would be willing and responsible enough to watch them for a couple of hours, however she can always name reasons why she cannot. She does go out with her friends and whatnot, but I end up having to stay home and watch the kids. I am starting to think I might just have to force the situation - not even tell her and have a babysitter and night planned and drag her out if I have to. The mini golf idea though is great since that is something the whole family could do also and I think that not only do the two of us need to go out alone more, I think the whole family could use more outings.

 

Thank you for reading and providing your feedback and pointing out things that I didn't notice.

[PocoDiablo]

As for your wife bringing up the OM. It makes total sense that you wouldn't want her bringing him up to your children, etc. I think that for now, do what you've been doing...don't make it into a big thing when she does bring him up.

Agreed. I personally think this is her testing you to see if she can trust you to maintain your cool in a way. So keep being chill about it, and keep your boundaries that you have set.

 

This is what I call the "Man test." She'll do it 100 times to be sure you are consistent each time.

[Solarist]

Yup - those were the first words in my head when I went outside to smoke - I just got pissed that a Covert Contract didn't work out. Ahhhh - indeed that book holds many truths!

 

Well - No Covert Contracts last night, and I didn't even resort to telling her what I wanted. I just pushed past my fears of rejection or inadequacy and made my move. While I still had a constant "analysis" going through my head I feel great that I didn't succumb to my fears and I am sure I will get to the point where things are not calculated or hesitant and I can just let myself go.

 

Plans Today

One thing that bugs me (and probably bugs the rest of the people in my office, to be honest) is that my office is an absolute mess. I have papers scatter accross my floor, boxes everywhere, pens and pencils scattered around, about a half a box of staples embedded into my carpet,etc. I will fully admit I am not the most neat person in the world - I actually feel a little more comfortable with what I like to call "organized choas" - however at this point, my office is completely "unorganized choas". I haven't got to cleaning it since I never made it a priority - I always felt I had something else to do. Today, I am going to make cleaning my office a priority since it is something I want to happen.

 

Asking for Help

Boston23 - I think I will take you advice and next time I am at the store, look for excuses to ask a store clerk for help finding things. I am sure it will not feel comfortable at first, but your right - the more I do it, the more I will feel comfortable doing it. So if anyone happens to be at my local Fred Myers this weekend, look out for me asking "Pardon me, do you have any Grey Poupon?".

[boston23]

Asking for Help

Boston23 - I think I will take you advice and next time I am at the store, look for excuses to ask a store clerk for help finding things. I am sure it will not feel comfortable at first, but your right - the more I do it, the more I will feel comfortable doing it. So if anyone happens to be at my local Fred Myers this weekend, look out for me asking "Pardon me, do you have any Grey Poupon?".

 

Yay! I'm glad you're going to try that out...it's definitely one of those things that can pick up very quickly so it's nice to do (especially since you're working on a lot of other things that take time). Even after just 3 times you'll feel much more bold about going up to people. And in restaurants it's the same thing. Ask for an explanation on some dish, or if something is spicy, or how big the serving is. And before you do it, mentally think of doing it really well: speaking up and looking the person in the eye. It actually changes your mentality when you have your head lifted toward someone as opposed to putting your head down. Put your head down now and imagine standing in front of someone...it even makes you feel weak with no one there! That kind of body language is inate...we get the feeling from just doing it (just like smiling when you don't really want to, actually makes you happier).

 

I was reading up on body language the other day and found it really cool b/c subtle changes can really change how people percieve you. Here's the website if you're interested: link removed

 

ooh and there might be a thing or 2 that might help w/ your wife...especially since you're trying to get accross that you're thinking calmly when you're really pissed...such as when she brings up the OM again

 

hope you have a good evening!

[Solarist]

I have been having an amazingly easier time already talking to people - no longer mumbling at some clerk at lunch and even working on saying "Hi" to people on the street. It is actually coming a long a lot easier than I thought it would - I think it was the initial shock/fear and once I got past that each time has just become easier and easier. It still takes a lot of conscious effort to remember to keep my head up and not look away but I am sure with time it will just become instinct again.

 

That is a really neat site - I have read little brief articles regarding body language but that has to be one of the largest sources of information on the topic I have seen. Rather facinating stuff and could be useful for all aspects of life (both for sending out positive signals as well as being able to read people). I have always found it interesting that regardless of how "civilized" humans become, we still have our core animalistic aspects - just more subtile than most.

 

Thanks for the continued encouragement and I plan to have a great evening/weekend and I hope you do too!

[Solarist]

Talk to OM?

I got the news today upon coming home that this guy wants to start talking to me again. I am not quite sure how to feel about this - on one hand, since he is being rather involved in my wife's and at this point family's life, it perhaps would be best to communicate with him. On the other hand, I am still rather wrapped up about this whole situation. I don't know - is it feasible that everything can be good and dandy and platonic, or am I just being naive and setting myself up for more crap? My wife detected that I was, well, disturbed by this and she apologized for upsetting me and said she would tell him not to contact me if I want. I told her not to say anything currently. I don't know - I could use some feedback on this one.

[Solarist]

More Passive-Aggressive Fear Based Actions

I ended up doing it again - another passive-aggressive act based upon my fears. My wife earlier this week received an invitation to a "Pure Romance" party (basically a tuperware party with adult "toys"). When I picked this up from the mailbox, I ended up placing it under a bunch of ads on top of the piano without telling my wife about it. I actually was intending to, but at the moment I was too unsettled due to my fears and whatnot - and later I forgot. Well, she found out via email anyways and wasn't planning on going, due to my insecurities. We ended up going out to dinner as a family, and when we got back, there was a message asking if she was planning on coming. She called back, and she asked if I minded, however I ended up pretty much bolting outside. I said she could go if she wanted, and she asked if that was a "Yes, go ahead and go" or a "Yes, go so I don't look like a controlling jerk". I responded somewhere between point A and B. She didn't end up going, and I feel bad that I again let my insecurities get the better of me. She in a few minutes asked if I did another passive-aggressive thing with the letter, which I really had no choice but to respond honestly that I did again fall into that trick. I feel bad that this occurred again - but I suppose it takes more than a week to undo years of bad habits. I am trying not to beat myself up too much about it however of course it ended up shaking her up a bit.

 

Out of the frying pan, into the fire

We talked a little bit later about the passive-aggressive act and how I am trying to change some of my negative points. I mentioned that I ended up saying "Hi" to twelve people today - which I was rather proud of. Her response was "ummm, okay - that's nice. Is that kind of like saying I went pee three times today?". I ended up getting a bit pissed and walking away. She came back and asked why I was upset about it and what the significance of saying "Hi" was and how it is sort of weird that I would mention that. I responded back that "Most people would think it is sort of weird to be proud of driving to the store also". As a bit of background, by wife has pretty severe anxiety about driving so pretty much it was a rather mean attack back. I realized that perhaps she was not quite sure the extent of my social anxiety and how I was actually proud of, well, a seemingly mundane event so I apologized for snapping at her. At this point, the mood is a bit dimmer - she looks fairly annoyed and I lost quite a bit of my "high" of self-confidence. I know I'll get back up there but a lot happened tonight and the OM wanting to be "friends" again really drained me of most of my nerves. I am hoping the evening is still recoverable - typing this helps some but I am dealing with a lot of thoughts about that initial recording again. My wife indicated she is tripping out about my parents coming in a few weeks. They know about the whole situation and they called her a few times regarding it and my step-mother said some rather over the top comments (some really horrible things that I thought, even at the time, were over the top like "You should be thankful that you found one person whom will put up with you. You will not find another person whom would want you for more than just a short-term play thing"). They claim they are going to pretend none of it happens, but this will be a rather awkward visit for sure.

 

Well, off to try to get myself out of this funk and back into a good mood.

[boston23]

Hmmm. The OM wants to be friends again? weird guy. I wonder what he and your wife think of their relationship now, because it's starting to seem like they think that they can be the best of friends and that you should be ok with it. Personally, I think that once you get back in fighting shape in your marriage (as in your feeling really good about your relationship with your wife) that you should get this guy out of both of your lives. I just don't think that he's a good influence at all.

 

For now though, you do need to put up with him, and I think that you've been doing an admirable job with that. Talking to him again though? As friends? I think that you would only be doing that to appease your wife...and this guy. You shouldn't need to appease anyone though, do what makes you feel better and get better as a person and as a husband. If that includes talking to this guy, then you should talk to him (letting him know that you're working on being a better husband and it would be easier without him in the picture, so scram off bud). But being chummy with him or pretending that everything is good? I think there are plently of people this side of the ocean (or even in your state! or neighborhood!) that you could be friends with...and those people haven't been a disruptive piece of **** in your life. You can tell that I still don't think highly of this guy, haha. (and in case you still have a warm spot in your heart for him, still remember that you can always find new friends).

 

I think that for now you have enough things on your plate that you're working on, you don't need to add the stress of talking to him again. If your wife brings it up again, you can tell her that you're thinking about it, or that you're not sure. I think if you give her a decisive and pissed off "NO" it won't sit well. She obviously wants your approval on this thing now, so she'll feel like you're pushing her away if you do that.

 

You sounded a little disappointed with yourself with the whole adult toy party issue. See the fact that you recognized your behavior as a little victory in itself. Have you ever watched The Dog Whisperer? The guy always gets really excited when the dogs put up a really big fight because it gives him an opportunity to steer them in the right direction. These moments that come up give you the chance to reteach yourself how to react to a stress like that. After you have a "off" moment with your wife, take some time to cool off and reflect, and then I think it's a good thing to apologize (even if she had an off reaction too) and perhaps briefly explain that you're working on not reacting like that. Your wife knows that you're working on this stuff, so when you do react like that, it might feel a bit like watching someone on a diet eat a giant desert. Not that you need to explain every little thing, but keep her in on the loop.

[Solarist]

Thanks for you input Boston12. It does really seem like that they think that everything can be hunky dorey now - that they can keep a platonic relationship. I don't know. I am not sure exactly what is going on... It still seems like my wife considers her actions a minor infraction. I think for the time being, indeed, I'll just avoid the situation - I am not sure what exactly I would say to this guy I haven't already. I am not beating myself up too much about the situation last night with the party - my wife and me did discuss it some, and I apologized. I was going to actually send an email to apologize to the host of the party, however she told me I shouldn't go that far. I don't know - I still think I might, because I should take responsibility for when I do something wacked to people.

 

Intimate Relationships

On the way to my niece's birthday party today, my wife starting asking a weird line of questions. It started out with the question "If a guy wanted an intimate relationship with another man, with no sex involved, does that make them gay or bi?". As it turns out, this OM guy was talking about wanting an intimate relationship with another man, but doesn't find them attractive intimately. It went onward with my wife discussing how she has not been able to have an intimate relationship with another woman (mind you, she is attracted to women) and that the closest she has been was with one of her friends. On the way into the party, I mentioned that "I just wouldn't really know - but I am not going to have any intimate relationships anyways since I would consider it cheating". Well, that I guess pretty much threw her off the whole party. She mentioned in passing that she thought our definition of "intimate" was different. I said "I hope so - because if not, our definition of a relationship is". On the way home, we discussed it a bit more. My definition of Intimate was a par to that of a bf/gf that choose not to have sex. Her definition was someone where they can be completely emotionally open and trusting with. I don't know - pretty much she is indicating she has this "intimate relationship" with the OM, and since there is the fact she can't have the same type of relationship with a woman it would seem there is still "something" funky with her definition. I asked if this "intimate friendship" contained anything that she couldn't say/do in front of me. Her response was "well, there are some things he tells me that he wouldn't be comfortable with you knowing, you know, since he doesn't know you that well". Which I suppose is fair enough - there are things friends tell me that they would prefer are not repeated to her. I inquired if there was anything she tells him she wouldn't me, and she claims "no". I then asked if there was anything they say/do that I would not be comfortable with if I was there. The response I got back was "Well, would you really be comfortable when I am with the girls at the hot tub naked?" (side note: I am not attracted to any of her friends in the slightest). I said, well, I can see that situation. Anyways, it seems the OM wants to form some intimate friendship with me - which well, um, lol. I think really, the first step perhaps would be to kill the word "intimate" since it has a fairly sexual connotation. *sigh* I don't know - I just got a bad taste from the whole conversation, but I am trying to not have it eat at me too much.

[Locke2121]

An emotional affair can be even more powerful....and intimate that a physical one Solarist. Instead of simple physical gratification, you are instead bearing your heart and soul to someone. You need to expand your definition of intimate just a bit..now that you have experience under your belt.

 

As for the OM wanting a friendship with you...perfect! Bring him over and show him your new riding lawnmower.

[PocoDiablo]

Well, in some regards, he's potentially given you a wake up call in life... It seems to me that someone would have come along and done this, and in some ways it may have been a good thing for you to finally have your reality shaken up a little.

 

So the question is ... do you thank him or shoot him? It depends on how good of a friend he is.

 

Maybe you should send him a copy of that book and see what his reaction is. He may turn out to be in the same place as you.

[Solarist]

Well, in some regards, he's potentially given you a wake up call in life... It seems to me that someone would have come along and done this, and in some ways it may have been a good thing for you to finally have your reality shaken up a little.

 

So the question is ... do you thank him or shoot him? It depends on how good of a friend he is.

 

Maybe you should send him a copy of that book and see what his reaction is. He may turn out to be in the same place as you.

 

Actually - I am thinking he maybe could use a copy. She was saying yesterday that he felt he was weird and questioning if he would be gay just for wanting to share emotions at all with male. I guess when he was younger, when he was having an emotional outburst his father took him and his mother to the library and told them to figure out what was wrong with him. He is probably even less sure of himself than I am. So yeah, he could probably use the book to be honest.

Also, yes, he was the catalyst that woke me up that I needed to change things about myself. In some ways I suppose I should be thankful. Also, when my wife was talking to him about running away to England to be with him or what he would do if she just jumped him and started kissing him, his response was to remind her that she was married. So he does have some sense of boundaries. As of late, I noted that most of their emails had him and some other girl they know CC: also, so it is becoming less a one-on-one situation. I don't know - it is a painful situation still and I am worried I am "missing things" per say, but....

[Solarist]

An emotional affair can be even more powerful....and intimate that a physical one Solarist. Instead of simple physical gratification, you are instead bearing your heart and soul to someone. You need to expand your definition of intimate just a bit..now that you have experience under your belt.

 

I definitely agree with this Locke. I guess I am having difficulties to see what exactly the line should be. In some ways, any close friendship you have you will bare your heart and soul to some extent. It is obvious my wife's actions for at least that day I initially recorded the conversation was wrong. She does acknowledge this, and since then, she has being a much better wife to me (especially since I change many of my habits also). I guess I am questioning whether she could potentially force their relationship into something that isn't infringing on mine.

 

As for the OM wanting a friendship with you...perfect! Bring him over and show him your new riding lawnmower.

 

LOL. See, I am trying to picture what part of the lawnmower you were implying I should show him.

[Solarist]

Talking about things...

I talked with my wife a bit about the situation, my feelings, my actions, my bad habits, etc. To some extent, she will be open and talk about it - but it seems like afterwards she is always more withdrawn and whatnot. She asked why I didn't have another therapy appointment set up - I responded that I didn't really feel he was providing much assistance to me. While I understand that 95% of the time I would be talking, but really, all the feedback I got was things like "How will you ever trust her again" and too much focus on the situation and I don't think enough on my contribution to it or how to better myself. At the end of the last appointment, we just went on our ways, without either mentioning additional sessions.

Anyways, I digress. I told her I felt like I was going in the right direction. She responded she thought so too, except over that invitation bit. I am trying to just accept I fell back into my old patterns for a moment but I recognize and am trying to learn from it - but it seems she is rather hung up on it since she keeps bringing it back up. I suppose it is natural - I have hurt her this way a lot in the past, so I suppose it is hard to have faith that I am striving to go in the right direction. I don't know.

I asked her why she always seems all the more distant after we talk about things and she stated she just needed to have time to think. So I said okay, and that brings me to typing this letter. I did note that she proceeded to start emailing someone, most likely OM, about it. I suppose I can't get upset that she is asking for assistance in reflecting what was said since I am pretty much doing it also.

[Locke2121]

LOL. See, I am trying to picture what part of the lawnmower you were implying I should show him.

 

Well...I would start at the bottom and work my way up....well, actually, with him staked to the ground, all he'll see would be the bottom as I drove over him with the mulching blade.

 

 

I talked with my wife a bit about the situation, my feelings, my actions, my bad habits, etc. To some extent, she will be open and talk about it - but it seems like afterwards she is always more withdrawn and whatnot. She asked why I didn't have another therapy appointment set up - I responded that I didn't really feel he was providing much assistance to me. While I understand that 95% of the time I would be talking, but really, all the feedback I got was things like "How will you ever trust her again" and too much focus on the situation and I don't think enough on my contribution to it or how to better myself. At the end of the last appointment, we just went on our ways, without either mentioning additional sessions.

Anyways, I digress. I told her I felt like I was going in the right direction. She responded she thought so too, except over that invitation bit. I am trying to just accept I fell back into my old patterns for a moment but I recognize and am trying to learn from it - but it seems she is rather hung up on it since she keeps bringing it back up. I suppose it is natural - I have hurt her this way a lot in the past, so I suppose it is hard to have faith that I am striving to go in the right direction. I don't know.

I asked her why she always seems all the more distant after we talk about things and she stated she just needed to have time to think. So I said okay, and that brings me to typing this letter. I did note that she proceeded to start emailing someone, most likely OM, about it. I suppose I can't get upset that she is asking for assistance in reflecting what was said since I am pretty much doing it also.

 

'Bout time. The therapist CAN'T give you the answers you need, they can only come from your heart. All the therapist can do is open lines of communication, and you seem to already have those. Keep talking, bare your heart to her, and listen closely to her problems as well.

 

It will take time...I know thats hard to hear...but could you get over someone in a day's time? A week, month?! Just support her, but don't let up. You want this person out of your life..PERIOD.

[Solarist]

Well...I would start at the bottom and work my way up....well, actually, with him staked to the ground, all he'll see would be the bottom as I drove over him with the mulching blade.

 

 

 

 

'Bout time. The therapist CAN'T give you the answers you need, they can only come from your heart. All the therapist can do is open lines of communication, and you seem to already have those. Keep talking, bare your heart to her, and listen closely to her problems as well.

 

It will take time...I know thats hard to hear...but could you get over someone in a day's time? A week, month?! Just support her, but don't let up. You want this person out of your life..PERIOD.

 

Perhaps - I am starting to wonder if it is 100% necessary to be honest. This guy has had hoards of opportunities to run away with her, but at each of these opportunities has just told her "No - you are married". He even went to the point of saying that he doesn't believe in divorce except in extreme circumstances and that even if she left me and divorced me, he would not awknowledge that she was divorced. Really, the trouble lies with my wife, no him. He has set this boundary and has shown he will not cross it many times. She has - however on the other hand, she has been being a much better wife. I am starting to really wonder if it is possible to not completely get this guy to go away - in some ways, I am fortunate that she found him opposed to some typical man whom would try any opportunity to get down her pants (my wife is quite attractive and I would have no doubt she could easily find a man to have a physical affair with, if that is what she wants).

Thinking back more about this whole timeline - there was a point where he did cut off contact with her, since he felt horible that he was causing this riff in our marriage. He indicated then it was not because he felt guilty of what he did, but he did not want my insecurities to ruin what he thought was a precious thing.

In some ways, I really think perhaps talking with him and trying to see if we could be friends again (or perhaps friends - he never really knew "me" but rather my "Internet Me") could be beneficial. He obviously is confused about life in general if he thinks sharing emotions at all with a male causes him to question if he is "gay". His esteem is rather slim to none - I suspect he might be bi-polar. It appears perhaps a lot of my wife's "attachment" to him could be similar to how people can get attached to their therapist. In some ways, talking to him could also fulfill that old phrase of wisdom of "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer". Perhaps I could help him to also boost his confidence, and perhaps get him out of the house, off the computer, and living his life. Perhaps he could actually find an available woman - that would put relief on everything.

 

On the other hand, I question if this could just be a ruse - a way to allow contact when I am home or a way to get me to weaken my resolve about him visiting. I know I talked to him in the past, and quite often that just turned into them talking to each other again while I sat there. I am thinking if anything, perhaps email would be best... I don't know...

[PocoDiablo]

I have a theory on relationships: There are typically two "seats" a male can occupy in relation to a woman:

 

1. The child

2. The husband

 

If you take steps to put yourself in the "husband" role, most other men will naturally fall in into the "child" role. Don't be jealous of these other guys, instead realize they are children and your woman is attracted to them in order to nurture them to some extent. The "child" role is also what I call "Friendzoned." It is the position of being loved but in a sexless manner. thereforeeee, unless you act more childish, you will by nature be seen as the adult.

 

This is where the LACK of insecurity comes to play. Be mature and secure and you will reap the rewards in return.

[Solarist]

The Dress, Part 2

My hope with posting this is that I can talk myself logically out of any "weirdness". My wife just called and told me my son said a funny thing: "You look like girl - I want mommy back". As it turns out, my wife is wearing the dress she bought. After chatting for a bit, I asked if they went out and did something - no, turns out she didn't. This is frustrating - I don't understand why she wears her PJ's all weekend but come the weekday, she wears this dress when I am not around. I am probably going to be very put out (per say) if I come home in an hour to see her in her PJ's again. I am in the situation now I also can't really inquire on the reasoning or whatnot, since it will come off as more controlling or questionning, but this really puzzles me. I mentioned I wish she would get dressed more when I am around and that I actually love dresses but as of yet, I haven't seen her in them. I don't understand why she agrees that she should get dressed more, yet only seems to when I am not around. *shrug*.

Okay - that helped a little. I suppose I should just not let it bother me, even though it does bother me. LOL. Or at least just not let it show that it bothers me. Urk.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Thoughts after a smoke...

You know - it just occurred to me. That was too blatent of a thing - calling me up to basically tell me I wore the dress. It was almost like she was trying to get a reaction from me - perhaps one of those "man tests". While I did not throw a fit, I am sure she detected my hesitation and concern - so I suppose I only partially passed. This is probably one of those things I should just let be. I hope she is wearing it still when I get home - I actually look forward to seeing her in it. I'll have to make sure I compliment her on how she looks if she is - I would imagine she would be stunning in it and I hope I do have the opportunity to see her. I guess I need to brace myself to the thought she isn't still in it, and try not to get pissy if she is in her PJ's again when I get home, although I'll be sorely disappointed.

[Locke2121]

Rip the PJ's off and....well you know. Keeping your cool isn't the only Man Test. *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*

[Solarist]

Rip the PJ's off and....well you know. Keeping your cool isn't the only Man Test. *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*

 

Thanks Locke - I needed that.

[PocoDiablo]

Alternately, take her out to dinner some place she cannot wear PJ's. I do that a lot...

[Solarist]

Well, she was wearing the dress still when I got home, which was nice. I of course gave her the needed compliments. She did indicate how worried she is that everyone will make a big deal about that fact she wore a dress so at that point I knocked off the complimenting thing. (She had similar problems when she started to wear colors - everyone would notice and comment). I went home a little bit early so we ran to the store and grabbed some T-Bone steaks which I grilled up. Yum! When we got back from the store, one of her friends (whom is a mutual friend with Mr. OM) called, and they talked for about an hour, quite a bit of the conversation regarding him. I played it relatively cool during the phone call, even though they were sounding like a pair of school girls when talking about him. When the steak and corn was done, I made up the plates and sat down at the table with the kids. She grabbed a plate, went to the couch, and continued talking. It kind of pissed me off, and I think it pissed my daughter off too since she commented "Well, mommy is the only one not eating family dinner". She caught that hint and got off the phone. The rest of the night was pretty mundane. She had promised someone that we would go on to Second Life and finish up a project that we were working on. I once upon a time enjoyed Second Life, however as time progresses, it is more of a second job than anything. I think 1/2 of that problem is that it is a prime place I need to start working on being able to say "No". I rarely get to finish any of my projects there since I am always getting carted into helping someone else and am usually plagued with people IM'ing me or whatnot with questions. I guess the main bit was I felt I lost me together time with my wife last night. Even after she was done with her part, I still had more to do that they (including her) expected me to do. I finished it up, however she didn't even want to see it. It made me feel like she was just trying to distract me - probably just insecure thoughts, but that is what it felt like. When I finished, she was playing the Wii and shortly thereafter it was bed time.

 

From Sadness to Resentment

I had difficulties sleeping again last night. I tried talking to my wife about just j-random topics when in bed, however she pretty much made it known she just wanted to go to sleep. So I just was restless and had nothing but my thoughts to entertain myself, which usually turns out to be a horrible thing. I tried to snuggle up next to her after about a half an hour of tossing and turning and she basically pushed me away. Objectively, it is quite possible she didn't even realize she was since she had been snoring, or perhaps she thought I had "other" thoughts in mind. I don't know. I got up a couple times to smoke to see if that would help me sleep, unfortunately, I would just return to bed as restless as I was before. I guess the main difference is usually when I am stuck in these restless modes in the past, I would be thinking about what she told the OM on that recording - the dialog would replay and replay. Last night, however, it was different. Instead of thinking about how my wife wants this OM, my thoughts turned pretty dark and bitter. I thought about the fact that every day for the last 9 years of our relationship I get up early and go to work. I think about the fact that most of the time I am working more than a 40 hour work week. I then thought about how I get the double wammy when I have to work late for whatever reason - I am salary, so pretty much if I work overtime, I end up making less money per hour. This so pisses me off but fortunately I have been working on being more assertive at work so I am not so easily taken advantage of. But then, the kicker of all this, after I work a 10 or 12 hour day and am already pissed off about the situation, I come home to my wife whom continues to give me the third degree about the fact I am late. I understand completely the concept of work-home balance and my company is making strives at making that a more reasonable balance (they have been hiring some more people to help), however it drives me batty that she doesn't understand that I can't just choose not to do things at work - well, I suppose I could, but then I would be fired and well, the kids gotta eat.

 

Fortunately, that situation should be resolving itself with the new hires, once they get brought up to speed. The next thing that flipped through my head is that I feel I am pulling more weight than she is and it is starting to wear on me. Actually, to be honest, it has been wearing on me for years - I remember back before the OM came into the picture, being very resentful and at times thinking about leaving her just for this sake. Reflecting on it, this might be part of the reason I was so neglectful - I felt constantly enraged that it seemed our responsibilities we fulfilled were lopsided.

 

As most of you probably know by now, my wife doesn't work. We decided mutually that it was important to have a parent at home raising the kids, especially during the early years of their development. So her job is to be a mother and housewife, and I definitely understand that this is not an easy one, or one to look down on someone for. The thing is, she isn't very good at being a housewife. I just get soooo pissed when I come home to find the house is messier than when I left - the laundry baskets overflowing, dirty diapers trickling around the floor. I get outraged to see juice spills, rotting apples, and cereal smashed into our recently bought carpets that she threw a fit to get (I mean crap - at least let's pay for them completely before they turn to complete crap.) So anyways, I come home, find the house degrading into more and more disarray on a daily basis. I asked my wife how her day went - usually get stories about what a great time her and OM had and statements like "I didn't feel good so she didn't clean", or "my leg hurt, so I didn't clean", or "I thought about cleaning, but decided I didn't want to", or "I thought I deserved a break, so I didn't clean", or as of late "I asked our daughter to pick up the floor and she didn't so I couldn't clean". Day in and day out - even days when she does something, it is like a half hour effort. The latter one really is pissing me off - expecting that my daughter should pick up the whole floor so all she has to do is vacuum and when my daughter doesn't, uses that as an excuse. It's no wonder my daughter doesn't ever do her chores - her mother establishes the presidence that you don't have to if you don'[t feel like it. Typically the house gets bad enough that on the weekend I have to spear drive a day to clean it up again, so come Monday, it is clean but slowly again degrades throughout the week. The whole thing makes me just want to start calling into work and telling my boss "I just don't feel like working today" and see how many days I can get away with that before being fired. Probably after maybe two, I would be fired, and then the whole family will suffer due to it. It pisses me off that she doesn't see that the whole family is suffering due to her actions. My children will never learn responsibility if their mother is a poor role model in this regards.

 

This whole train of thought made me realize something - regardless of the status of my wife and this OM's relationship, even assuming they are being completely saintly plutonic, it is still damaging my family. Perhaps she would not be so bloody lonely all the time if she actually DID SOMETHING. Heck, if she doesn't like this stay-at-home-mom and housewife gig I would be fine with her deciding to work.

 

Now talking about work and money, this is another thing I am resentful about. Now I am not resentful that I make 95% of the money - I realize, in theory, her role as a housewife is more than adequate for her share (assuming she performs the duties). What makes me resentful is throughout our time together she did occasionally do things to make money. For a couple of years she provided child care. As of late, she has been selling items on Second Life. This never has been a hoard of cash - usually maybe $200-$500 month. But the thing that pisses me off is the money I earn is "family money (which I am more or less okay with) but the money she makes is always her money. Even the vocalization of our vs. hers is starting to wear. A prime example is a while ago out digital camera was missing and she was wanting to take some pictures. We didn't really have the cash in the bank to buy one at the time, but she did have the money in pay pal. She really wanted a new camera, and was trying to talk me into just using the credit card. We are currently close to $8,000 in debt so I have been trying to stop using the credit cards for things we cannot afford. I suggested she could use her money to buy one. Her response was "but I don't want to spend my money on it". Grrrr.. Fortunately I held my ground and we just didn't get one, but it just pisses me off she can spend hoards of money on things for the OM, the OM's family, etc. but nothing that helps the family.

 

Anyways, I need to stop this rant to get to work... but grrrrr...

[JadedStar]

Sorry Solarist, but your wife is not a very tactful or considerate person. I am sure you know this but i just had to say it.

 

I will try to give you more of a response when i have more time, but she is not respectful, not even to your kids. Your daughter having to say what she did is ridiculous (about mommy not eating family dinner). Your wife does not sound like she is putting forth the required effort (and her effort should be enormous) to make your marriage work.

 

And that whole our money vs her money thing, I don't blame you. I'd be sick of that too.

 

She sounds inconsiderate and lazy. I hope i don't offend you, but I doubt i could even be her friend much less be married to her.

 

Your wife needs a huge wake up call - and the first thing she needs to realize is the world does not revolve around her. I don't know how you do it, still complimenting her and tryign to be so sweet. If that were my husband doing these thigns everytime i looked at him i'd tell him to just get out of my face. My love for him would go down the drain after having to deal with selfishness after selfishness time and time again.

 

You even have to be careful how you compliment this woman as she might get self conscious over something. Please. She is sounding less and less worth the effort with every message of yours I read.

[PocoDiablo]

Solarist,

 

You need to start leading her to where you want her to go. She is acting like a child, and you're acting like an absent father. What agreements do you have with her? If she's going to stay home and take care of the kids, there needs to be an understanding that she is going to cook and clean and otherwise also work the same 8-10-12 hours you do. Have you set any expectations? Have you sat down with her and in a VERY calm and polite manner come to an agreement?

 

The whole finances thing? That's simple - it ends now. Finances are shared, 100%. Period. No exceptions. This can be a very hard thing to do, but I think you must convince her to be involved with the finances for everything. And remember, you are letting her have her money because you don't feel worthy of having nice things yourself. Go re-read that part in the book.

 

I'm going through the finances issue right now with my wife. It's hard, but we've agreed that my salary and her primary job paycheck goes to bills. Her second job income goes to the wedding ceremony and any costs needed for her second job. It is not easy, and my wife constantly avoids ALL topics of finances, but you have to sit her down and go over it until you are both on the same page.

 

And as far as compliments, let me teach you something: You should compliment a woman no more than once per day, and you need to compliment her EFFORT not her existence.

 

Examples:

 

BAD:

Wow, you're hot!

Damn, looking sexy!

 

GOOD:

That's a very nice outfit, you look great today.

Hey, you look great, I can tell you took a long time to get ready. Thanks.

 

Remember, a woman often will get dressed up and the effort is indicative of how she feels about you. thereforeeee, recognize the EFFORT taken. This is why it's important to notice when she gets her hair cut, her nails done, a new outfit, etc. She is often doing it to be a more attractive woman FOR you.

[boston23]

I agree with JadedStar that your wife sounds inconsiderate, but even more than that she sounds extremely depressed. Almost every single action/inaction of hers screams depression to me. Being depressed makes it tough to do a lot of things, but the fact that she doesn't realize that she's depressed makes it even worse.

 

I'm not saying this to give her an excuse and I definitely think that you have every right to be annoyed and to be frustrated with her lack of action; I also think that she needs help with her depression. She's been pulling away from the life that she has with you and your kids and she shouldn't be doing that, it's definitely going to make the issue worse. Have you ever approached her about it? Has she gotten help for depression in the past (even years ago)? I really really think that she needs to get help for this, it doesn't seem like it's going to be going away on its own, if anything I can just see it getting worse.

 

I think it's a good thing that she's making some money and your letting her keep in for own purchases. That gives her a little bit of needed independence. Imagine feeling like you did nothing and you had to rely on your husband for everything. Not a good feeling. But....what is she doing buying things for the OM and his family!?!?!??! What has she been buying? That's totally ridiculous. She should be able to buy what she wants, but still. That's out of line.

 

As for her worrying that other people will make a big deal about her wearing a dress, don't knock the compliments off. Just tell her that they'll think that she looks fabulous as you do. She needs the positive reinforcement of getting dressed is a good thing. And feeling pretty is a good thing, especially when you're depressed. So don't worry about going over board on the compliments, she needs to feel good about her appearance and she needs to hear that you think she looks good. So even when she's just dressed in PJs, you can still give her compliments.

 

So that's my take on it. I'm not sure how to go about getting her help for the depression, many people are pretty reluctant to get help, especially if they don't see the problem. Since she seems to be so easily influenced by the OM right now, you could use that to your advantage...he could bring the subject up (not saying anything about you) and then after she's gotten help and is more herself you can kick him to the curb/introduce him to your little friend the lawnmower.