The Snake in the Basket

[Scout]

^^^ welcome, bendo! By all means, post a thread so we can "meet" you - and possibly give you some support and/or advice.

[Cyprian]

Everyone remember to look at MajorD's other posts. They are truly incredible.

[Shadows Light]

Great post!!!! makes sense. I think I'm one of those risk takers that gets bit bit bit bit..... thanx for the food for thought.

 

Why do I get bit? Co-dependency. I'm a fixer I think. Working on that one.. and letting people fix themselves.

 

Being the dumper... Yes, lots of logic went into filing the divorce. It wasn't an emotional decision. The data went in...

was filtered... again and again... and it took a long time to come to conclusion because I let emotions get involved.

 

However... once I took the data... filtered it.. and did not allow my emotions to rule my decision... I was able to stick to

my decision and NOT put my hand into that basket. It takes a lot of Chutzpah though.

[Cassie]

I truly love this analogy. Very insightful stuff there, sir!

[vesper]

I know this question was not directed at me, but vespar, do you potentially believe this yourself? Do you have a husband and plans for a family in the very near future?

 

sorry major, I think I answered my own question. cheers. xxx vesper

[Fisch]

Some theorists state that men are more logical creatures, whilst women are more emotional. Some dismiss this as too generalised whilst others can see some credence in such a claim.

 

 

Are you kidding, I should be famous around here for citing this so often. Great job encouraging everyone!

[arwen]

Excellent, excellent post. Well-written. Copy, paste, and save it in a directory on your pc-- I have folder named 'rainy day files', it contains documents that I saved from ENA directly. This one will go there as soon as I get home!

 

thanks, majord

 

Arwen

[BONO]

I think the whole notion of *You cannot apply logic to emotion* is fundamental to this wonderful example.

 

Overtime logic will supersede emotion and it is then and only then, that you can take an objective logical view of the relationship for what is *was* and not what you *hoped* it could ever be. Two massive differences.

 

If ,as time passes and emotion subsides, you find yourself in a position where a path to reconciliation is a possible option for you, then you apply DN's very logical view on the situation - as Major pointed out.

 

To make sure the reasons for the split in the first case no longer apply.

 

Yes, these could be superficial that could be overcome through compromise and negotiation.

 

Yet, there could be structural, fundamental reasons for the split that could lead to further heart break once the honeymoon period wears off.

 

Engaging a paradigm of emotion over logic is not big, seldom clever, but very easy to achieve. (((SNAP)))

 

 

BONO

[mikeca]

Very engaging post as usual from majord. You always seem to find some new twist, an anology or another way of phrasing something to make it seem even more clear.

 

ah majord23, I remember first coming here and following your sound advice. Only you and God know what experiences you had to grow through to obtain such knowledge. Good to see you still kicking around.

[papalazarou]

Did you discuss this all in the pub on Thursday then?

[boomvang]

I subscribe to a similar generalised theory…but this theory is non gender-specific: Dumpers are more logical, while dumpees are more emotional.

 

Right off the bat I am struck with the notion that, in the course of a person's life, any person is likely to be both a dumper and a dumpee.

[TheFoglifter]

So what you are saying is: never be the dumpee?

[eleanorrigby1]

Its funny because i always considered myself a logical person, until i began training a a counsellor, the one thing people always pulled me apart for was for 'being in your head' always thinking, not feeling, not experiencing, weighing up, no impulse, no risk, furtively thinking about each step before taking it.

 

I believed/believe i was living my life wrong. Life is about risk, its about emotion, pain, happiness, tears, its about experiencing. Sometimes we have to go guns blazing with our heart because we long to experience.

 

We try to protect others with the wisdom of our pain, our past experiences, but if we are all so different, we need to have the proof for ourselves.

 

I have had so much rubbish happen to me growing up, but i cannot prevent it from happening to my little sister by telling her logically what happened to me. I have told her MY experience of life, what happened to ME, how I felt ahout it, she listened and she cried and made all kinds of promises that she would be more sensible, more cautious - even than me! the furtive logical pessimist! ha ha

 

I dont doubt for one minute that she will still go out and do some of those things.

 

OUr grandad died of lung cancer, i gave up smoking last year and it was incredibly difficult. Logic told me, i didnt want to die of cancer, i didnt want to get ill, i didnt want to smoke anymore, but yet i did, and i finally gave up, i said to my sister "the worst mistake of my life was starting it!" she is 14, she said "I will never smoke!"

 

I caught her with a cigarette in her hand the other month, i hit her so hard she cried for about an hour, then i broke down crying because i was disappointed in myself as much as her. SHe wanted to experience it for herself, my knowledge, my opinion, my FACTS were not enough for her to satisfy her curiosity, she wanted to know what it tasted like. Im hoping she doesnt touch it again, Im HOPING.

 

In terms of relationships, it makes perfect sense to always think about what we are doing, but we can waste our lives analysing and worrying and thinking and without risks we wouldnt do anything, love anyone or go anywhere.

 

Sometimes we have to just go with what we feel and if its wrong, its wrong.

 

Life is about experiencing and we cant experience without feeling and emotion.

 

thats just my two penneth! : )

[TheFoglifter]

My friend's little brother said the same thing. My friend tried to give his brother the benefits of all the things he's learned, and the little brother asserts that:

 

- just because that happened to you doesn't mean it will happen the same for me.

 

- even if it DOES happen to me, I need to experience it for myself.

[Fisch]

In the end it may be useful short term advice to think about a relationship in logical terms after you have just got dumped because your emotions usually get the best of you. Although it is certainly not something I do, I understand that it is not uncommon for people to build the relationship and their ex up in their mind. At that time your emotions are usually leading you down an unhelpful path. In the end though, relationships should be as much about emotion as they are about logic, if not the logic of some emotions.

As for dumpers being more logical than dumpees, I dont really see any evidence for that. I dont see that dumpers are motivated less emotionally. Perhaps their partner is rich, socially active, fun, all kinds of good stuff but he/she just doesnt feel an emotional connection. The logic there would be that he/she doesnt make the dumper feel happy. In fact it is usually a lack of emotional fullfillment that causes a dumper to take action. I am sure that they weigh the emotional pros and cons. So it really seems that logic and emotion are tied up here and at the root of a logical argument is emotion and vice versa. In the end emotion can be just another factor in a logical argument, so they dont always end up on opposite sides of the spectrum.

[thelonelydoll]

melvinx - sounds exactly like my ex-bf! Those twice-a-month freak-outs of his (in his case fueled by alcohol, too) were so exhausting, and yet I said yes to his proposal. Logically, I'm thankful it didn't go further (I never saw myself married to an abusive drunk) but illogically, I do still think about the good times we shared, and there are a lot of "what ifs" and thinking about what could have been had he not been both borderline and a drunk. But logically, I know that those are "what ifs" that are just too huge for any chance at a healthy relationship.

[laspeedia]

Nice post. through my journeys into relationships and my curiosity to understand humans--myself, I have found that we move from emotions 80% of the time, leaving the remaining 20% to the mind (logic area) if we even manage to use that 20% is up for debate. Desomd Morris has claimed that communication through language is less obvious than a persons body language in ReaLLy knowing what the other person is tyring to communicate. I agree with your line of reasoning that the person dumping is coming from a logical zone when they use the spoken word to complete the act of dumping; what I'd like to add is I believe the 'dumper' has acted from an emotional place first then put it into common words that humans have developed in attempting to understand one another. I think what we are attempting is to understand the other persons emotions, a difficult task when reduced to mere words. Heres a question for you: Why when love making are there so few words used but soooo much expressed? Why do we want to relate to someone else in the first place, isn't it to BE Emotionally involved? I don't think there is any gender difference when it comes to wanting to express love and be loved. Our emotions, instincts turned relative, are our greatest assests to surviving. free our minds and our a** will follow. aloha

[majord23]

Another one I'll bump for those seeking reconciliation.

 

Think about what you're after and whether it's worth it....

[coloradio]

What if you're in that position where you realized that you weren't exactly experienced enough for the relationship beforehand, and that is what killed it? And now that you have had time to think and assess yourself, you feel ready? I suppose I should do some more thinking on this matter of what I really want, but I'm pretty sure what I really want is to be with her again, just because it's her and she is who I am in love with.

[bfla]

Threads like these kill me, 'cause I'm one of those bastards that continuously comes to the "yes" conclusion

[Mayday11]

And those are valid conclusions to come to. Sometimes the reasons for a relationship ending are temporary or done out of emotion rather than any real reason. It happens.

 

However, a large majority of people who want to reconcile want it out of a knee jerk reaction to being dumped (or dumping someone and then going crazy after the dumpee gets over them). Look around these forums, you'll see a lot of people who want to reconcile where their situation borders on the absurd. Things like "My boyfriend and I constantly fought and argued and my friends and family think he's a huge jerk, but I want him back so badly" or "My girlfriend cheated on me three times and didn't tell me and I ended up with syphilis, but she's such a great girl and I need her."

 

While those are extreme examples, of course, they're not too far off base. People's stories will fit the formula of "(insert unhealthy sounding relationship here)(insert illogical desire to reconcile here)". These people don't want to reconcile out of love, because they weren't really in loving relationships in the first place. They want to reconcile because they refuse to come to terms with the fact that not only did they stick through a bad relationship, but they were the ones that got rejected from it.

[bfla]

yeah. thanks as usual mayday

[Mayday11]

yeah. thanks as usual mayday

 

No problem, just speaking from experience. I, too, have been dumped in the past and wanted nothing but to reconcile afterward. But after a little bit of reflection on myself, my ex and my relationship, I realized that the relationship wouldn't ever have worked out anyways.

 

But, yea, sometimes even after that period of reflection on everything, you'll come to the conclusion of "Well...that breakup was kind of silly, we actually did have a pretty great relationship."

 

But good relationships that end due to bad timing, immaturity, or many other temporary (but important) factors are in less abundance than relationships that end due to irreconcilable personality conflicts, different outlooks on life, etc. If you take this into account, then reconciliation isn't a great idea for a majority of breakups.

[coldplay.]

Mayday this question is for you.

 

I often ask myself this question about reconciliation with my ex.

 

We lived together and it became a bad relationship, mainly due to the fact that i had unresolved personal issues like growing up, depression and anxiety, but other than when i fell into that hole, our relationship was beautiful... there was no cheating, no major conflict, just stress on both of us.

 

Am i being unrealistic with wanting her back? I know i want to be a better man, and i understand why she needed to leave. what do you think?

 

I come to realize that i dont hurt inside because she left me, but because i didnt know enough to let it come to this...

[Mayday11]

Mayday this question is for you.

 

I often ask myself this question about reconciliation with my ex.

 

We lived together and it became a bad relationship, mainly due to the fact that i had unresolved personal issues like growing up, depression and anxiety, but other than when i fell into that hole, our relationship was beautiful... there was no cheating, no major conflict, just stress on both of us.

 

Am i being unrealistic with wanting her back? I know i want to be a better man, and i understand why she needed to leave. what do you think?

 

I come to realize that i dont hurt inside because she left me, but because i didnt know enough to let it come to this...

 

The questions you should be asking are:

 

• Would I want to be with someone who left me at a time where I really needed them, due to my personal issues?
  
• (follow up) If we were to reconcile, how could I know that she wouldn't just leave when things got rough again?
  
• Are the issues something that I can manage and keep from getting to the point where it will strain our relationship?
  
• Is this someone that I can see being happy with me and me being happy with them 30+ years from now?
  

 

This should get the ball rolling. Obviously, just about any relationship that breaks up could possibly reconcile, so it's impossible to be 'realistic' or 'unrealistic' about your chances.