Im angry.

[Parsley]

If he doesn't do anything I think we can safely assume he's unconscious and/or a robot.

 

He's acknowledged that he's wrong, and as time is passing is obviously feeling worse and worse about that decision, exemplified by his trying to make a joke. When he sees you, as long as you make no attempt to pretend that nothing happened, he will have to say SOMETHING. Especially if you don't say anything other than hello. It could be quite fun to guage which shade of purple he's at before he speaks up.

[EvaGina]

If he doesn't do anything I think we can safely assume he's unconscious and/or a robot.

 

He's acknowledged that he's wrong, and as time is passing is obviously feeling worse and worse about that decision, exemplified by his trying to make a joke. When he sees you, as long as you make no attempt to pretend that nothing happened, he will have to say SOMETHING. Especially if you don't say anything other than hello. It could be quite fun to guage which shade of purple he's at before he speaks up.

 

I dont WANT him to suffer tho.

I just want him to realise whats wrong and to not do it again!

 

You make me giggle tho

 

I dont even know if hes coming over, if he will be here when I finish work or what

 

I dont know, I hope he doesnt think that I dont want to see him and just stays away... if there is anything that makes me angry, its men running from their mistakes.

[Parsley]

I aim to please

 

I'm fairly certain that you'll definitely know one way or another if he's going to go to yours or not. He'd have to be incredibly dimwitted if he didn't turn up and didn't tell you *again*. I'm leaning towards him showing up. I think he'd know he'd dig himself a bigger hole by staying away.

 

You must let me know what happens - however I am knackered and should go to bed so I can be all relaxed and energised for all my cynicism on the morrow!

 

Good luck!

 

x

[EvaGina]

I aim to please

 

I'm fairly certain that you'll definitely know one way or another if he's going to go to yours or not. He'd have to be incredibly dimwitted if he didn't turn up and didn't tell you *again*. I'm leaning towards him showing up. I think he'd know he'd dig himself a bigger hole by staying away.

 

You must let me know what happens - however I am knackered and should go to bed so I can be all relaxed and energised for all my cynicism on the morrow!

 

Good luck!

 

x

 

lol, yeah, I think itll turn out ok too

Ill post tomorrow... I should be working atm

 

ninite button, and thanks 1:

[charley]

My heart goes out to you. Getting stood up is hurtful.

[EvaGina]

My heart goes out to you. Getting stood up is hurtful.

 

That it is... thanks

I am getting nervous that Ill be sitting around waiting for him all night

 

He said he will be at my place at 6.30

All I want now is a bath and a beer

[Parsley]

Hey

How did things go last night?

[EvaGina]

FANTASTIC

He didnt make excuses or anything, he just let me say everything I wanted to say and answered any of the questions I had... then said "sorry doesnt cut it, I dont know what to say".

 

He was so upset, more so than I was I think... he said he was his own worst enemy and he looked completely miserable.

 

we sat there for a while and he just blurts out "please dont leave me!"

"why?"

"because we make a good couple!! I would harass you, you know... use all my free texts, 2000 a month, until you took me back"

 

that kind of thing is SO out of charachter for him

 

oh, and I was sitting outside in the sun drinking and smoking when he turned up, in my dressing gown, a hat and sunglasses... he turned up in these TINY striped 50's bathing shorts... and nothing else... just to make me laugh

 

and then we had awesome sex... so all is good

[Batya33]

You've just given him a free pass to do this all over again - in my humble opinion. You let him sweet talk you and I don't see any indication that the next time it is inconvenient for him to see you or he gets a better deal he will stand you up or cancel at the last minute.

[EvaGina]

You've just given him a free pass to do this all over again - in my humble opinion. You let him sweet talk you and I don't see any indication that the next time it is inconvenient for him to see you or he gets a better deal he will stand you up or cancel at the last minute.

 

Normally, I would totally agree with you.

and I see why you think that... but there is only so much I can convey over the internet.

 

I am NOT a pushover... I have been played a lot in the past to the point of being overly tough on my bf's as a result.

 

Thing is, people do make mistakes, people mess up... I cant condemn him when I have done stupid things to him!!

I know he will mess up again, but if I can see he is trying, hard, then that is good enough for me, I dont expect him to be perfect

[Batya33]

I'm not talking about perfection but I'm also not talking about "trying" - there's no "trying" - there's either doing or not doing. You don't "try" to be on time, or to be considerate if you need to change or cancel a plan - you either are or you aren't. My life is too busy and my time too precious - to be friends with - let alone date - someone who would stand me up more than once or cancel at the last minute more than once or twice.

 

Not quite sure I could even put up with once (meaning, with no legitimate, emergency type excuse) but I could see giving the one chance. You are right that you cannot convey everything over the internet but it seems to me that he has not told you definitively that it will not happen again. You seem to be fine with that and you are entitled to your values and standards of what you expect. It's not about expecting "perfection" - I don't - I just have higher standards as to how I need to be treated when it comes to plans and my time than you do. Not "better" just "higher."

[EvaGina]

He did tell me it wouldnt happen again, but, as i see it, he could promise me anything and it wouldnt matter unless he did it.

I want to be with him, so I will just wait and see if he does it again.

 

He has always been one of those scatter-brained people who is late and things, its horrible in some ways, but it is what comes with a lot of the qualities that I love about him.

 

that "not trying" thing really gets to me... sorry, but I just dont hold with that philosophy. its different when it comes to cheating or somthing like that, but with something like this, its difficult.

 

I cant explain his past or how he is treated for being the person he is (which is terribly) but I can see a lot of things Im not really comfortable explaining about him, and I can see why he does this kind of thing.

 

Not that this excuses anything, but I cant just let him go when I KNOW he will do his utmost from now on.

 

Hes not the kind of guy to stick around if he doesnt really want to

 

I dont regret this, not like with my ex's... I know I am doing the right thing

[Batya33]

All that matters is that you feel ok about this and he meets your standards of respect or treatment. Perhaps I didn't articulate the "trying" concept well enough. It comes from a nationally known psychologist, Dr. Joy Browne (she has a web site, I'm sure) who says again and again "there is no such thing as "trying" - you either do it or you don't." When a friend is continuously late with no good reason I don't want to hear "I tried to be on time but [fill in the blank]." If I can be there on time, then so can she or he, barring an emergency or excellent reason.

 

I take more of a long term view on these things - "scatter brained" can be fun at times but since I only date people I would marry and have a family with the idea of "scatter brain" when it comes to real responsibilities would give me great concern. I'm not sure what "scatter brained" has to do with him choosing to play golf instead of seeing you and choosing not to let you know that so that you couldn't make other plans and were left waiting. To me that sounds inconsiderate, selfish and immature, but not "scatter brained" - he made a clear choice and it wasn't you.

 

As far as his past, well, sure, you can make allowances or you can believe that you are entitled to be with someone who doesn't blame his unreliability on his past or what happened to him - or at least, if it is that bad, is in therapy to do the work required.

 

But that's just me and my standards. It sounds like you are being perfectly honest with yourself about your standards and that his approach to reliability and prioritizing works for you because his other qualities are worth it to you. I would suggest looking at what Dr. Browne has to say about "trying" and looking at what you posted above if he pulls this again.

[Parsley]

I don't agree with no such thing as trying or not trying. Ok yes - what he did hurt her...but some things are like habit. Maybe before he was with someone who did that to him and he just learnt it from them? Or something from childhood. Being scatterbrained, or forgetful isn't something you just achieve overnight. You have to work at it, i.e. try. I can see what you're saying, but there are too many circumstances where it cannot possibly be applied without making gross generalisations and applying negative stereotyping.

 

Eva - What did I say? Man...I am so incredibly envious of you. For a huge multitude of reasons, which I guess could be lumped into "Your boyfriend is better than my ex was". Also the fact that 'you got some', and I have no idea when I next will...and you know what it is FRUSTRATING.

[EvaGina]

^^^ Hey parsley

I would be envious of me too

sometimes I think he just doesnt realise that people care enough to get mad when he is late and things, his self esteem could be carried around in a teaspoon.

 

 

 

-raises hand- I know psych, im a psych student and I plan to be a councellor. I still dont agree with the "trying" thing. NO ONE theory can fit every example. The first thing you learn is to not lump everyone in with one theory or assume every situation can be solved in the same way. Im sure Browne would agree.

 

To be honest, you're starting to annoy me. I know this guy, I havnt said that he has tried to blame anything on his past, he took full responsibility for what he did. He got to the golf course early, planning on texting me, then realised he had left him phone at home. rang his brother and got him to drop the phone off at the golf course, but his brother took over an hour and by then I was already angry.

 

I know what you are trying to say, and as I have said, I would normally agree with you. If this was anyone else, (and it has been before) I would be totally with you. But I refuse to get bitter over whats happened in the past and put my insecurities born from OTHER men mis-treating me onto him and our relationship, as what we have is different to anything I have experienced before.

 

We are totally, unerringly honest with eachother. i think one or two slip-ups and a handfull of tears is definitely worth the other 98% of the time when we are blissfully happy.

[caro33]

Hmmm. Just thought I'd weigh in if you don't mind. And I had just typed all this out before I saw your response to the last post EG - I don't mean to argue with you .

 

I actually agree to a large degree with Batya re trying/not trying. It's a principle, as I see it, of someone making sure they stand by their commitments. When they don't it shows that their priorities were not as they or we had perhaps assumed.

 

For example, for a date with a guy I've just met (in my past), or with my husband now when it's a special occasion, I will be aware of all the things that might make me late and build them into my timeframe. I will have a buffer zone timewise, and will anticipate any issues. So I will be early really, or at least on time.

 

When I am lazy or taking people from granted, my prioritising and planmaking kind of go by the wayside. I have to admit there have actually been times I have exercised magical thinking about the time it takes to get places when I am on ENA! So husband is waiting for me somewhere, and I'm like "oh, just after this post" and I choose to forget that it takes forever for the elevator, or that the walk is longer. We can all get selfish sometimes.

 

So I don't think that people being a bit slack is a dropping offence, but for an big enough event, or when it occurs more than once or twice, the person who is not prioritising needs a kick up the proverbial. That seems to be what you gave him EG, good on you. And only you know if it got through or not - glad to see you think it did.

 

But if there is any chance he thinks it's okay to take you for granted and something happens again, maybe you should up the ante. Disorganisation comes more naturally to some people than others, but it also is manageable I think if the disorganised person truly understands and values the consequences of their actions.

[Parsley]

It's just so nice to hear that you got a real apology and that he genuinely was upset and sorry. Makes me angry at myself when I remember how my ex acted when he did things like this. As I said before...he never seemed to realise just how much it hurt me, and thereforeeee never apologised in a way that I now see he should have. Hey yeah...I am REALLY angry at him now - I just started thinking about the first time he did it. No real apology ever...all because I was determined to make a joke out of it the whole time. I should have listened to that taxi driver. He told me he wasn't worth a minute more of my time if that's how he acted when we'd only been together a week.

 

Oops...I appear to have ranted. Point is, I'm really chuffed for you because you've got one of the good ones. I would be annoyed at you for making it one less available for me, but you're in New Zealand, and I doubt I'll ever make it over there. Much to the dismay of all male NZers I'm sure....

[EvaGina]

 

Im not saying I disagree with everything btya said. I would probably say the same kind of thing to someone else, and I agree with what you said in this post.

 

Macca and I have a very relaxed relationship, I can see why he slacked off. He now knows not to.

 

I know when its not ok to give in, or stay with them. My last bfs have done things like that and when I said I forgave them, there was still a nagging doubt that I couldnt shake. Im not getting this now, or I would have posted "he said sorry... BUT yada yada yada"

 

I dont feel like I have comprimised my self respect.

 

and I still have to remember that he is scared by relationships, he does every now and then go into that horrible push-me-away mode that people who have been burnt get into

I do it to him sometimes too, but we recognise it in eachother and talk to eachother about it

[EvaGina]

-hug-

Your a sweetheart

 

he didnt even really apologise... well, he did,but it was different to any other conflict i have ever had. He didnt try to stick up for himself or anything... and although he was going "yes, I messed up..." he wasnt resentfull about my whining and he wasnt trying to go "yeas, I messed up, get over it"

 

it was the most respectful situation ever he didnt insult my intelligence nor my emotions

[Parsley]

Good for you. Could this possibly have been the big slap that he needed to STOP doing this?

[Batya33]

When I was a kindergarten teacher, a child decided to sneak off and dump all the paint in the bathroom sinks. I asked her why she did that and she said "because I miss my daddy." I said "you know, you can miss your daddy AND not dump all the paint in the sink."

 

Same thing here - he can be '"scared" of "relationships" and still choose to be on time for you and choose not to play golf when he has made plans with you, etc.

 

But again, it is all about your standards and my guess is you're not thinking of this in the context of marriage/family/joining finances where the scatter brained/unreliable/scared of relationships so I'll blow her off becomes a far more serious issue.

[EvaGina]

Good for you. Could this possibly have been the big slap that he needed to STOP doing this?

 

Hopefully... I think so

Its not like he didnt feel bad about it... and ACTUALLY feel bad, not just feel like poo because he got in trouble.

[EvaGina]

When I was a kindergarten teacher, a child decided to sneak off and dump all the paint in the bathroom sinks. I asked her why she did that and she said "because I miss my daddy." I said "you know, you can miss your daddy AND not dump all the paint in the sink."

 

Same thing here - he can be '"scared" of "relationships" and still choose to be on time for you and choose not to play golf when he has made plans with you, etc.

 

But again, it is all about your standards and my guess is you're not thinking of this in the context of marriage/family/joining finances where the scatter brained/unreliable/scared of relationships so I'll blow her off becomes a far more serious issue.

 

Hey. Didnt I just say that we talk eachother out of it? he cant control the occasional waves of fright, hes scared.

 

It seems to me your talking to yourself instead of listening to me.

 

and dont try insult my standards. I would rather a creative genius who makes me laugh, who learns songs about girls with green eyes so he can sing to me... than some reliable stuffed shirt who bored me to tears.

 

Macca isnt malicious and our relationship means heaps to him, I have no doubt in his feelings towards me. Just becuase he slipped up once, it doesnt mean he is the thoughtless beast your making him out to be.

[Batya33]

Hey. Didnt I just say that we talk eachother out of it? he cant control the occasional waves of fright, hes scared.

 

It seems to me your talking to yourself instead of listening to me.

 

and dont try insult my standards. I would rather a creative genius who makes me laugh, who learns songs about girls with green eyes so he can sing to me... than some reliable stuffed shirt who bored me to tears.

 

Macca isnt malicious and our relationship means heaps to him, I have no doubt in his feelings towards me. Just becuase he slipped up once, it doesnt mean he is the thoughtless beast your making him out to be.

 

This is what you wrote: "oes this all the time, and each time he promises to not do it again.

I HATE being stood up, I hate that hes always late."

 

 

So, I don't understand how you are now backpedaling and claiming it was only one slip up. I do not think he is a thoughtless beast. I do think we have different standards. You don't have to choose a boring reliable guy - guess what, there are many guys (including my boyfriend) who are creative, witty - and reliable and considerate. your boyfriend is not in the least bit malicious - that kind of exxageration is irrelevant - he just does not believe that he needs to be on time for dates with you or to call you if he doesn't want to keep the plan.

 

I don't get invovled in a romantic relationship with people who behave as you described he behaved, even if it is because of some mental or psychological disorder. I will be supportive of the person getting help, but if he's not working hard on changing the unreliable and thoughtless behavior (this is about his behavior, not him as a person) then I care about myself too much to subject myself to that type of behavior on any regular basis.

 

Obviously you get something out of the relationship that makes it worth it for you to put up with these behavior patterns and you believe that he cannot control his behavior. I respectfully disagree - he cannot control what happened to him as a child or in past relationships but he can control how he treats you. But, again, you have different standards than me - I expect a higher level of reliability and consideration from my friends and significant others than you do. That's all I wrote.

 

There is a scene in the Joy Luck Club (I think it is a 1993 movie) where the mother says to her daughter, with respect to whether her husband is treating her properly, to figure out what she is "worth" and that once she does, and asserts that for her husband, he will treat her better. It just sounds to me, from your initial posts where you vented and your complete 180 just based on his sweet talk and promises and make up s_x that you are selling yourself short and rationalizing that you are not because of his problems in his past. That's just my humble opinion. Twisting my words and attacking me for that opinion might make you feel better but is unproductive in the long term.

 

I'll say it - I think you deserve far better treatment and I think you will get it - either with him or with someone else - if you assert yourself and if you stop putting up with his unreliability and stop buying his excuses that he had a bad childhood. And, if you stop the mindset that men who are reliable are also dull or boring or that all creative types are unreliable or scatterbrained - it's simply not true.

I have tons of experience with people who had horribly abusive childhoods and worked very hard in therapy so that they could treat their spouses and families with respect. Please stop feeling sorry for him and start taking care of you and figuring out your worth. You can respond with venom to this post - that's fine - but hopefully some part of it will register with you in a relevant way.

[EvaGina]

When I posted the first post, I was angry, he doesnt do this all the time, but when Im sitting at work getting stewed up, it feels like he does. thats MY thing, I over think a lot of things.

 

I am going to stop this now, seeing as its obvious you haven't read my posts, yet you keep repeating what you think is going on with no regard to my responses.

 

ONE LAST TIME... I see what you are saying and I agree with it, but it is not relevant in this instance.

 

He treats me fantastically, hes attentive, loving and loyal, we by far have the best relationship out of anyone I know. He has one fault, and he is going to fix it.

 

Im not a naieve little girl getting the wool pulled over her eyes, so could you kindly stop being so condescending and take note of what I am telling you before you try to convince me otherwise.