What do you think of being "self-less"?

[Unhumble]

Although I know that very few ordinary people can be really altruistic... I know that even the few who try to do so are often looked down upon by the cynics and pessimists of the world.

I would like to ask you: what might be bad about being an altruist? About being spontaneously ready to help out friends (and not only friends!), from easy to risky issues, without caring nor expecting anything "in return"?

 

Or, rather than being something "bad", do you think the problem is that they are easily preyed upon, they are easy targets of those who really care only about themselves and their own issues?

 

Just wanted to exchange some thoughts on this...

[caro33]

I guess that my view is that there is no such thing as altruism in its pure sense. People who do good things for others, even if it causes inconvenience to themselves, are generally doing this because it meets some internal need. So I might do something that looks selfless, but I am doing it because it makes me feel good about myself to be that kind of person, I like to see others happy and it makes me feel valued.

 

Now I don't think there is anything wrong with that by the way. But I guess I am asking that one conceptualises altruism slightly differently. Someone is not going to do something for someone else if they do not feel good doing it under any scenario.

 

I am not sure that apparently selfless people ARE sneered at in general; do you have an example? I think that some people may not understand it, because they felel good doing different things, but I'm not sure I have seen evidence that there is widespread condemnation or condescension toward generous types.

[itsallgrand]

Well, to be selfless takes a lot of wisdom, me thinks. I think it is easy to confuse or not understand our own and other people's true intentions, it's very complicated as people are very complicated.

 

I think there is a difference between selflessness and martyrdom, and they often are confused for each other.

One - selflessness - is an act of reaching and generosity that respects both the 'giver' and the 'receiver'. But really, it is simply a mutual exchange. Beautiful when that happens. Both profit.

Martyrdom entails a sacrifice and possible harm/grave expense to the 'giver', while the receiver cashing in, so to speak.

[Boughtandpaidfor]

Why would you want to be altruistic when everyone has all this hate jealousy and frustration. All this passion and desire, controlling everythig they do.

 

Why pretend none of this is there- altruism doesnt come from denying the things that pull at you all day long.

 

I guess people try because they want to become above these feelings. But they are there.

 

And ignoring them irritates eveyone!!

[renaissancewoman101]

I always try to do good for others, be there for others, etc. Doesnt get me much in return. I'm still the one that gets kicked to the side when push comes to shove.

[caro33]

I always try to do good for others, be there for others, etc. Doesnt get me much in return. I'm still the one that gets kicked to the side when push comes to shove.

 

If we use you as an example then Ren (hope you don't mind ) - would you see your behaviour as selfless? If so, are you hoping that your doing good for others will bring about something (and what is that something), or do you honestly not mind that positive things (for you) do not seem to come from your actions?

[shes2smart]

I think there are very few -- if any -- people who can be truly alturistic all the time.

 

I think it is quite possible for many people to act in an alturistic fashion for a short period of time in specific sets of circumstances. Those circumstances are going to vary widely among individuals. What moves one person to go beyond themselves may be very different than what moves another person to behave in that manner.

 

In order to have even those brief shining moments, I believe it is absolutely necessary that we fully KNOW, in that moment, that we are capable of getting our needs (whatever they may be) met without the help of other humans. Knowing that we along with God/Spirit/Universe/The Force will always take care of us/provide for us puts us mentally in a place where we can truly give with no expectation of return and with the goal of the highest good for all involved. It is at these times where we are not acting so much as an individual with wants and needs and preferences and character flaws...but as a conduit for God/Spirit/Universe/The Force to do Its/His/Her work in the physical plane.

 

I like to think I've been fortunate enough to have a few of those moments. The way it feels to be in that mindset is its own reward. And it is something that, once experienced, most would want to repeat, IMO.

[renaissancewoman101]

I dont usually go around doing good so that people will do good for me. That really is not how I am. I just get a bit upset that with all the good I DO do, that I dont get much good in return.

 

I reflect on that a lot. But when I am actually out and about and I help people out or do good for someone, I usually do it from the bottom of my heart. I do have a good heart most of the time.

[EvaGina]

I totally agree, even charity is done to make one feel more holy.

[TheRedQueen]

Unless you are dead, it is impossible to be "self-less".

[Unhumble]

So I might do something that looks selfless, but I am doing it because it makes me feel good about myself to be that kind of person, I like to see others happy and it makes me feel valued.

 

 

lol, yeah.

 

Well, actually this leads us to discuss absolution, i.e. the forgiveness of sins.

 

I agree that many people act "good" (for whatever definition of good they may have, depending on their religion, philosphy, psychological or economic theory...) for the conscious sake of purifying themselves from the bad things they did. It can help, indeed... but when they continue doing bad things after the charity it's a bit funny.

 

Not very different from those people who go to volunteer in Africa only because that will make their CV/resume shine and outstand at career recruitment...

 

 

 

If you do it to feel better together with the other person, thereby creating a win-win situation - I'd call it team spirit, sense of collaboration, socialness.

 

. I just get a bit upset that with all the good I DO do, that I dont get much good in return.

 

I reflect on that a lot.

 

Why?

 

Why pretend none of this is there- altruism doesnt come from denying the things that pull at you all day long.

 

I guess people try because they want to become above these feelings. But they are there.

 

And ignoring them irritates eveyone!!

 

Hmmm? Is this also a kind of "absolution" you're talking about?

 

My personal definition of altruism is that you spontaneously do something for others out of your own initiative, without caring about the non-retribution or possible loss of this action - this doesn't mean you ignore the negative things of life happy town mentioned!

This means you are fully aware of them, but still do it because according to your own reasoning it is good for the person/s you are about to help.

The only "feeling" involved here is the need for precision, not self-satisfaction or personal fulfillment.

 

It is similar to what was defined here as "martyrdom", though martyrdom can often be associated with implied sacrifice. And martyrdom can be imposed by external constraints... not something reasoned out on your own.

 

I am not sure that apparently selfless people ARE sneered at in general; do you have an example?

 

Apparently or not - rather than personal condescendance, I think the attitude itself is trashed out. Probably due to expectation that everyone acts according to the reasons that have been mentioned so far ("apparent self-lessness", absolution, etc.).

[Boughtandpaidfor]

 

My personal definition of altruism is that you spontaneously do something for others out of your own initiative, without caring about the non-retribution or possible loss of this action - this doesn't mean you ignore the negative things of life happy town mentioned!

This means you are fully aware of them, but still do it because according to your own reasoning it is good for the person/s you are about to help.

The only "feeling" involved here is the need for precision, not self-satisfaction or personal fulfillment.

 

 

What you described sounds exactly dharma - "right way". Not necessarily nice or rewarding- but precise and unerring.

 

Awesome!!

[Unhumble]

Hey, I was being more curious on the topic and found an entry that addresses exactly what was discussed about here... (psychological egoism)

 

Hope you enjoy it

 

link removed