My busy husband

[lonely_me]

A while back, I posted a message about my husband not having very much time for me. We moved 1500 miles away from home for him to attend graduate school. I work from home, live in a small town, and have very few friends... It was making me very lonely. The general response was that I needed to talk to him and get him to put more time and effort in to our marriage.

 

I did talk to him, and we sat down and made a schedule. I told him the things I found most important:

- Going to bed together/at the same time most nights

- Having a "date night" once a week

- Eating dinner together, in our dining room, most evenings

- Doing groceries together once a week (yeah, I'm a weirdo)

 

He told me how many hours a week he felt he needed to devote to school work and we came up with a schedule that worked for us both. We made compromises (I agreed to go to bed 2 hours later than I usually do, he agreed to eat dinner when I do rather than re-heating it later on in the night). It was a good thing.

 

It went well for a couple days, then he got swamped and had to pull an all-nighter. Which meant he couldn't stick to the schedule the next day since he was so tired. Which led to work being backed up and, once again, he got busy and I was ignored.

 

I'm really getting tired. I feel like we're leading separate lives and just happen to live in the same house. I am finding things to do on my own... I've started several projects that keep me busy, but it's not enough.

 

I feel like it's gotten a little bit pathetic. Since I like going to bed with him, I've started laying a comforter and pillow down on our office's floor and sleeping there until he's ready to go to bed. I wake up extra early every morning to prepare the night's dinner and tidy up so that JUST INCASE he's available that evening I won't have anything distracting me.

 

It's really frustrating for me. He knows how I feel, we've come up with solutions... but nothing changes. Maybe I haven't given our little schedule a fair chance, but I really think I should be seeing SOME of my requests being met, even if not all of them. But I'm not. In fact, since the semester is almost over he has even less time for me than usual. I know I have to just be patient, but I don't know how I can keep my sanity in the mean time.

 

Thanks for listening and thanks in advance for the comments...

[Jayar]

I guess if I were in your shoes I'd expect my husband to see me not as an additional chore that needs scheduling in, but instead as the bright spot in his horribly busy day. Which would be a day he would never be TOO busy to do something special with me, even if he couldn't do EVERYTHING special with me that day.

 

I don't feel that your requests are too demanding. I do feel that you are compromising too much, and you are heading to "doormatville"... I can't really tell you what to do, but I can tell you that if it honestly feels like you are living separate lives from under the same roof, and you don't feel that your husband prioritizes you at all, I know I certainly wouldn't find that acceptable. Maybe I'd try to work things out once more, but if they fell apart again I wouldn't stay in the marriage.

 

Best of luck to you!

[Daddy Bear]

it sounds like both of you are trying to make the best of this. have you thought about getting expert help from a professional marriage counselor? they're paid to help come up with solutions to this type of problem, you know.

[rocio]

I know where you're coming from. My fiance is doing his phd, which is cool, but it's like he has no life or interests outside of exams and papers. It gets pretty dull talking to him, when ALL he ever has to discuss is "professor younge reveiwed my paper today, and she wants me to change this and that..." Seriously, do I care? I don't go home and tell him details about my workday. Because that's just work and it's not a good topic of conversation!

 

I really can't understand how it takes 18 hours per day, 7 days per week just to pass a few exams. Get some hobbies already!

 

And the worst part is that when you try to get them to focus back on reality (like YOU), they pull a guilt trip on you and insist that you're getting in the way of their succeeding in school.

 

The only advice I can give you is to be more independent. Like sleeping on his office floor just to be close to him is sweet, but it probably doesn't make you feel very wanted. And it might be preventing him from realising how special and precious you are.

 

Spend more time with friends, or doing things away from him. Find other projects and interests (I know, easier said than done when you love the guy) Make him miss you and WANT to spend time with you.

[Beec]

hhhhmmm, part of me looks at this as him doing what he needs to do for your future, and that competing with your desires for his time now. Part of me also sees this as you needing stuff from your man, when he doesn't have much of what you need to give.

 

My parents went for at least six years with Dad working six out of nine days during which he never came home. He worked twelve hours a day, or more, and slept at work. Was not easy on them, and Mom admits to wanting to leave at some points, but having made it through together, they are very loyal to each other. And that also at times has not been easy. So, first make sure you are supporting him in how he is working, isn't this for both of you? I'd hope so. And try not to need so much. A woman who asks for less from a guy is a woman to which guy will try to give much more.

 

Second, if he committed to a schedule, let him know when he is breaking it. I might be a little lax, but it would not go unmentioned.

 

Third, at the end of the semester, the in between semesters should be in large part yours.

[n83]

Honestly, going through any kind of post-high school education is stressful and difficult and he needs your support and encouragement. He tried to work with you but I can tell you honestly that it's not always easy to drop what you're doing (schoolwork) and do other things on someone else's timetable. I think you need to compromise with yourself and figure out what you're willing to miss with him, and what you're not. He is not going to be able to accommodate all of your requests, all the time, and I think a major part of the problem you're having is that you need him around so much.

[rocio]

hhhhmmm, part of me looks at this as him doing what he needs to do for your future, and that competing with your desires for his time now. Part of me also sees this as you needing stuff from your man, when he doesn't have much of what you need to give.

 

A mature relationship involves balancing time and priorities. You can't just put a relationship on hold for a couple years to accomplish goals.

 

He won't be able to buy back what he's lost if he ends up hurting her and making her feel unimportant.

[Beec]

A mature relationship involves balancing time and priorities. You can't just put a relationship on hold for a couple years to accomplish goals.

 

He won't be able to buy back what he's lost if he ends up hurting her and making her feel unimportant.

 

I know he needs to give her some of his time and attention. And I think I can empathize with her. How much he can give her and how much she needs seems to be inconsistent. It's tough. He's there trying to succeed. She should want him to do so. But, she should have some type of a marriage right now.

[rocio]

How much he can give her and how much she needs seems to be inconsistent.

 

Here's what she's asking for:

"- Going to bed together/at the same time most nights

- Having a "date night" once a week

- Eating dinner together, in our dining room, most evenings

- Doing groceries together once a week" (no, you're NOT a weirdo! I like this too)

 

I'm sorry, but he CAN give that much.

 

Supper : Even gradutate students need to eat. He's just lucky that she's cooking hot nutritious meals for him, and saving the time it would take to cook for himself (or the negative effects of nutrition deprivation on the brain).

 

Going to bed : Pulling all-nighters is one of the best ways to do BAD in school. Having a consistent sleep schedule (ie: going to bed at around the same time, and sleeping at least 6-8 hours) is extremely important for your brain to be able to sort through all that information and function properly.

 

And taking a couple of hours on a Friday night to go on a date isn't exactly going to cause him to flunk out of school.

 

I've been a graduate student, and got the top marks in my class. I also put myself through undergrad by working full-time. My experience is that if you want to succeed in school, you absolutely need healthy habits (like eating and sleeping) and healthy relationships, as well as balance.

[Beec]

I think the once a week date should be pretty sacred, as should dinner or at least one meal a day. Bed at the same time, that's tougher to get me to believe as are th groceries. At the end of a semester, I would let a little slide.

[rocio]

At the end of a semester, I would let a little slide.

 

True. No rules apply to final exam time! (oh, the horrible memories )

[kellbell]

Hey there,

 

I remember you. I am so proud you were able to discuss this with your husband and come up with a solution.

 

When your husband is "straying" away from what you both discussed, he needs to be reminded of it. For example, you can say, "I know you had an all-nighter the other night, but that is over and we need to get back on our agreement." Something along those lines.

 

One thing I noticed in marriages and serious relationships is things will shift a bit. What I mean is that one partner will need more than the other for some amount of time, for example your husband and his schooling. Then there is going to be a time when you will need more for whatever reason and your husband will carry more weight. I believe you are doing all what you can do but it is up to your husband to withhold his end of the bargain.

 

Don't feel silly about laying a comforter down on the floor and sleeping in your husband's office. I do the same thing. My boyfriend does a lot of work for computers and he will have to stay up late and sometimes I just don't feel like going to bed alone. So, I will put down a blanket and pillow and sleep until he is ready to go to bed. Once he carried me to bed. Don't feel silly about that. For some reason, I feel closer to him when I do that.

 

Again, I would remind your husband when he is "slipping." Hang in there.

[CarnelianButterfly]

I can say from experience that its very hard to balance having a partner and working on graduate degree. I'm writing a thesis in aerospace engineering, my work is incrediably time consuming because it may take a whole day to work through a problem. I've spent over a month stuck on something, picking away at it every day, researching and working. Its very hard for me to give my BF time and I feel guilty when he's not my focus.

 

This isn't going to be the rest of my life though. I'm finishing my degree in May and a PhD might be the next step. Either way, I make time when I can. School is not easy on either person in a realtionship. I try to make dates, but some days I'm exhausted, I know I would be a horrible conversationlist.

 

I don't understand why people get so upset for someone working hard to do well in school. Especially if you've paid tuition, if you don't study and get good marks, it really is a waste of money.

[caro33]

Wow this is a thorny issue. I kind of agree with everyone, which makes it a bit of a split personality kind of topic.

 

I wouldn't presume to have the answer, but perhaps it's a matter of finding the safety valves in the relationship - finding through a clear consensus about priorities and an absolute trust a way of communicating when you're getting pushed too far. Then using that communication judiciously.

 

What I'm thinking here is something like -

 

"Darling I'm pleased we had that scheduling discussion the other day but I guess we can see that approach didn't quite work for us, it fell over.

 

So while I don't think my requests of you were inappropriate, I think we need to find an alternative way to meet both of our needs.

 

I can see how important this study is to you, and to us. I recognise that it is not permanent, however I need something from 'us' right now as well, and I am really struggling with the current priorities.

 

What can I do to support you more in your work? Is there anything I can or should do that I am not? [have discussion]

 

Okay, and for me, what I need from you is X. I understand these things shift sometimes but when they shift to the point that I don't see these needs being met at all, it gets very hard for me. We need to find a way for me to say to you directly when this is, and for you to commit to do your utmost at that time to recognise the situation and stop for a while to see how we can negotiate." [have discussion, perhaps decide what are 'dealbreaker' minimum standards and what are negotiable, clarify the parameters of negotiation]

 

I dunno, but this stuff worked for me. The times we have had big issues, the only way of breaking through the frustration of not been listened to (for both of us) was to find codewords, and make a solemn promise to always abide by them, whether that means stopping whatever you are doing and paying very close attention when one person says it, or whether that means doing exactly what the other person says when they use the right language. It means trusting that this thing, whatever it is, is a truly massive deal to the other person whether you think so or not. You listen and if you do not immediately do what they say needs to be done, you at least commit to finding the closest alternative way to achieve what needs to happen.

 

The key to this is a commitment to the partnership, to what's best for the other person, to listen when they show it's vital, and to really be definite in a promise to not overuse whatever you agreed above.

 

I have said all this based on an assumption that something can give here from both sides. Maybe it's not fun, and not fair right now, but maybe you give up some nights to bed in order to get the weekly date cemented. Maybe you give him a week of obsessing then pull him back into line the next week, and you guys agree this. But I also think he can plan better, be more efficient, and prioritise differently. I have also been with a PhD candidate, saw him through the whole thing, and I have also done a PhD, while working full time. These things are all different I know, but I just don't believe he can't be a bit more focused on his relationship, and this means sometimes -de-focusing on the study.

[lonely_me]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

 

These past few days have been really rough. I was out of town for a business trip, which I think actually helped things. I got to see my family and spend some time at my home office. Both my family and my co-workers make me feel so appreciated, it really felt good. But then I came back home and it feels like there have been constant ups and downs. Starting with my husband being too busy to pick me up from the airport, so I took a cab home, and then my key didn't work on the front door (it was a new copy), so I had to wait outside in the freezing cold.

 

We got in to a huge fight yesterday because he says I don't love him the way he loves me. I work my butt off to make his life better. I moved 1500 miles away from my family, I support us financially (by working from home, which I hate doing, but there's no way I'd make the same salary working for a local company) so he can concentrate on his PhD, I do all the housework, I make sure he always has healthy meals... Yesterday he told me that he'd love me, and be happy with me, even if I stopped doing all of those things. He said that since I'm so needy of his time and so unhappy when I don't get it, I obviously don't love him the same way. I'm sure he's being honest, but I think it seems awfully easy to say you'd love someone who did nothing for you when they are working their butt off for you.

 

I'm not really sure how what to do with that. Do I change jobs and accept a 20k - 30k pay cut, let the house become a pig pen, let him fend for himself during meal time? That doesn't seem very supportive to me. At the same time, I feel so unappreciated and alone. I work so hard to make him happy only to hear that he doesn't even want me to do the things I do. What do I do with that? I felt almost like he was throwing everything I do back in my face. I'm tired and I'm frustrated, and I don't know how to deal with it. I know I can't be needy, and I want to be supportive of his goals so badly, but it's wearing me out.

 

I felt so great while I was on my business trip. I almost felt like my co-workers appreciated me more than my husband does. I work with a bunch of men, so all week I got to hear other men tell me how great it was having me around, how much they miss me now that I telecommute, how great it is having my input during meetings, etc. It was so nice, but at the same time, it made me wonder why the one man I WANT to appreciate me doesn't.

 

He's suggesting getting a puppy. Someone I can take care of who will give me the attention I seem to need. It seems like an unfair husband replacement, but I am definitely considering it. If nothing, a puppy would keep me company when I'm at home all alone every day.

[caro33]

Well I still stick to my advice above, but in the absense of you guys talking this through to get you anywhere, I also strongly advise you stop working from home. It's easy for your husband to criticise your time needs but he needs to walk a mile in your shoes. Working from home (as you know) is very isolating, so no wonder you are particularly looking for his company when he is not studying.

 

Yes, give up the job, don't always be there preparing a meal for him. If it's not what you wanted for yourself and was just about you 'supporting' him and he's saying 'thanks, but I don't need that, I want you to be more independent' then listen to him.

 

It comes down to what you want for you too though, what do you really want? I mean quite outside of your relationship: what would nourish and fulfil you.

 

I think a buying a puppy for the reasons you state is asking for trouble. You need to get OUT of the house, not find some reason to have to be there. And no, a puppy will not replace your need for adult interaction, the idea is laughable. I spent years alone with my dog (incl studying from home for a while) and hey, he was great, but I was no less lonely.

[lonely_me]

Caro,

 

Thanks for the response. I actually did (to a point) try out your previous advice. The problem with negotiating our needs is that they directly oppose each other. I want a close relationship, while he seems to almost want us to lead parallel, separate lives. I honestly don't know why he wanted to marry me, because I think he's more interested in having a roommate he can be sexual with. It's awful to say, but I honestly feel like that's what our relationship has become.

 

I want someone I can count on. Someone who I can depend on and who is okay depending on me. When I was out of town, the poor man practically starved himself. He was living off chicken wings and soda all week. Am I really supposed to just stand by and let him do that to himself?

 

Whenever we discuss what he needs from me, it seems like all he needs is for me to get out of his hair. I want the exact opposite. I miss having someone who knows me inside and out and who is willing to be there for me through the good and the bad. Right now, I feel like all I have is someone who likes having me around when he has the time and that's about it. I want to talk to him and find a happy medium, but he really doesn't seem all that interested. Does that make sense?

 

As for quitting my job, I want to. I want to so badly. However, I live in a small town. There's not much of a demand for what I do here, and the few potentials I've found involve a massive decrease in income (20k - 30k a year). Most likely, if I took that sort of pay cut we'd have to start taking out student loans to make ends meet. My husband really wants to get out of school without any debt, but that's only possible if I continue to contribute what I do now. Would it be selfish of me to put that kind of financial burden on us?

 

I'm really confused. I want to do what's best for my husband and our marriage, but I'm so frustrated. I want to be patient and be the type of wife he needs, but that means not having the type of husband I need. I'm so tired of trying to find a way to please us both and failing.

[caro33]

The problem with negotiating our needs is that they directly oppose each other. I want a close relationship, while he seems to almost want us to lead parallel, separate lives. I honestly don't know why he wanted to marry me, because I think he's more interested in having a roommate he can be sexual with. It's awful to say, but I honestly feel like that's what our relationship has become.

 

I want to talk to him and find a happy medium, but he really doesn't seem all that interested. Does that make sense?

 

This is really disturbing and if it's your impression of your marriage you really need to be true to yourself here. Your need to cater to him and to the household sounds like it's damaging you. You say he doesn't want to negotiate, but we are talking some clear messages here:

 

- This isn't good enough for me.

- We are married, we are not f***buddies.

- I need you [husband] to come to the party here.

- What are you [husband] prepared to do to meet MY needs.

 

Have you been this clear with him?

 

When I was out of town, the poor man practically starved himself. He was living off chicken wings and soda all week. Am I really supposed to just stand by and let him do that to himself?

 

Well, yes, if that's what he's saying. Let him either miss you, or maybe you will see this stuff doesn't matter to him at the moment.

 

As for quitting my job, I want to. I want to so badly. However, I live in a small town. There's not much of a demand for what I do here, and the few potentials I've found involve a massive decrease in income (20k - 30k a year). Most likely, if I took that sort of pay cut we'd have to start taking out student loans to make ends meet. My husband really wants to get out of school without any debt, but that's only possible if I continue to contribute what I do now. Would it be selfish of me to put that kind of financial burden on us?

 

I'm really confused. I want to do what's best for my husband and our marriage, but I'm so frustrated. I want to be patient and be the type of wife he needs, but that means not having the type of husband I need. I'm so tired of trying to find a way to please us both and failing.

 

On this last issue, I guess the matter is to also discuss this with him. It may be that the student loan is fine, and necessary to get you guys through this patch and keep you sane. It does sound like your husband is saying 'I love you, and I know you love me, but I am feeling really pressured by your time needs'. He might be feeling so pressured that he jumps at the idea of taking out a loan if it means he buys some time to obsess about his study and you are happier.

 

To be honest, this sounds like a huge value issue. Maybe it will blow over once he's completed his studies, but can you both take it until then? And what happens when he switches into a new career/hobby/study alternative and it all starts again?

 

So maybe he's selfish, maybe he's not, maybe you're being a bit needy, maybe you're not - it's hard to tell. I can certainly empathise with you though. I just wonder if your message to him is clear enough, because it sounds like you are pursuing what might read to him as multiple agenda. You are saying 'I am unhappy' but you are also putting up with stuff like being stuck at home voluntarily, as well as cleaning up and cooking. And he's saying, 'but I don't want that' and you are hurt because you think he should want that.

 

I can't see how you can make a clear path through this unless you are at least able to articulate what you want for YOU. I asked you this and you still answer in terms of what you want from him. You need a negotiating position that will not drive you mad, and placing all the value externally to yourself (as in, I will only be happy if the other person does X) just makes that more difficult.

 

Have you discussed with him the prospect of you getting a new job and the financial implications?

[terk2021]

Life is about work/life balance. Some people want it, others don't. Granted, I did not end up getting married this year, but my fiance and I took a marriage prep class. Two things were stressed in that class more than anything: communcation, and priorities. Now, we all get busy in life. Career is important (as it pays the bills), as well as giving individuality in a relationship. Not just career, but hobbies, time with friends...

 

It sounds like his priorities right now are elsewhere. I was not married, but lived with my fiance. Her career started to take off, and it became all about travel. If it was just us two, that's one thing, because I travel for work too. But, she had a daughter as well, and work started becoming more important to her than both of us combined...

 

That's where are relationship started going down hill. Slightly different situation than yours, but, you should be a priority in his life. Getting degrees, masters, PHDs... It's important to have personal goals.

 

But, when you take on too much and become too involved in too many things in a marriage, it changes priorities. I think your requests are fair. Sure, things are going to be hard at times, but if we love someone, and we are committed to that person, they should be a priority.

 

Life should not end as an individual because you get married, but priorities and sacrifices need to be made for a successful marriage/relationship...

[lonely_me]

Caro,

 

You are completely right. I list all of my needs in terms of my husband. He's even said that to me, and asked me not to do that. But I don't know how to do anything else. There's very little that I want from my life that doesn't have to do with him. How else do I say that I want more of his time, attention, etc? Or should I be wanting something entirely different in the first place?

 

As for being clear with him, it's very difficult for me. A lot of times, when I express feelings like the ones I've been having lately, I get very upset. I can't control my emotions very well and I end up crying and blubbering and the entire thing ends up a waste of time. Today he told me that he's starting to have very little patience for me when I start crying. That makes me want to avoid topics that make me feel strong emotions because it seems like when I display those emotions, he just gets ticked off.

 

We've discussed the financial implications of me finding a new job and he's supportive. He would rather we be in debt than have me constantly unhappy. Basically, while it's hard for him to agree to give of himself, he rarely says no when I want to do something on my own.

 

I am realizing that I do need to come up with needs in regards to myself and stop putting that burden on him. It's just very hard for me to accept that this it's okay to do that. In my heart, I really believe that spouses should be able to meet each other's needs. It's very difficult for me to see that it's not his job to make my life better and that I should stop trying to make his better. I have a feeling it'll take me a while to fully accept that

[caro33]

Oh lonely! You sound sad, I'm so sorry.

 

Yes it IS okay for you to have needs for you and have them separate from him, in fact it's healthy, and to be expected. Rather than being selfish or bad, it is a good thing that will stand you in excellent stead for you as an individual as well as for the sanity of your relationship. I believe that one needs to be a whole and happy person as an individual to share/give the best of themselves to someone else. Now I am not advocating rampant selfishness but a basic sense of being true to who you are.

 

I'm not sure this will be easy, but if you can turn off some of what I imagine you feel as fear (of being alone, being rejected by hubby) and try some thought exercises, it might help. Get out of the house, take a couple of days off. Walk around, think back to who you were in previous incarnations, like before you met your husband - what did you do when you were happy? If you are someone who has always defined themselves through relationships, what did you do when you were younger, a child? Did you enjoy some things over others? I mean, I know it sounds trite, but if you really think about it, you might be able to reignite an old love of something, like photography, writing, charity work...

 

Imagine you are old, very old, deathbed stuff. You are gazing into the eyes of your equally ancient husband - what do you want said about you? Beyond 'she was an amazing wife'?

 

I am embarrased by the lameness of my suggestions but I guess I am trying to tap into a vibe of hope here - there must be some way for you to unleash your imagination here and find a way to fulfil yourself for yourself. Put less pressure on your husband to be everything to you right now.

[caro33]

And by the way, I think that your approach is admirable, I agree that spouses should be there for one another, and that they should prioritise each others' needs. But I'm adding that those needs of your spouse need to be added to your own, not replacing your own. And part of the current problem also seems to be that you are looking at what you believe should be his needs, not what he is stating as his needs.

 

Perhaps you have a few things to work out -

 

(a) What is your idea of the perfect partnership and what is his. I'm talking basic values here. Maybe once your emotions have calmed this is a conversation you can have - it's not about what you want and need right now, or failings of either of you, but a health check on what being married means for each of you. If he's open to it, there might even be a self-help book or some other external checklist that could help you have the conversation. Maybe you guys could go see a therapist or community leader. At the least, it seems there needs to be a clear identification of what you both ultimately need from this partnership, irrespective of current conditions or excuses for why it's not perfect right now, like the study.

 

(b) Find what turns you on! Maybe it's another job, maybe it's a job and a hobby. Something that makes you feel more fulfilled on your own, something that helps you say 'I was happy today because...' and the reason has nothing to do with your husband. Perhaps just the social interaction at work is all you need. Like I said, I have spent time alone, both when I was studying and when I was unemployed for a little while last year. Now I am someone who loves being alone, but not that much. I remember what a big deal it was to spend time with others, how I'd look forward to plans made. I would be shattered when plans fell through, and I remember my friends recoiling slightly that I could come accross so nerdy and care so much. So be kind to yourself - it's easy to start to think the world revolves other people's plans when you aren't out making your own.

[caro33]

And I hope you don't think you're burdening him; you may have been willing but still he did put you in this position. And even though he may have a lot of work to do right now, he should make a bit more of an effort to make certain that his wife is making the transition into this new life as well as he is.

 

Yes, absolutely agree.