It's hopeless....

[doubleg137]

I need you to tell me.. not SELL... tell.... I want to find someone, its just that after failing for about 15 years, Im getting a little discouraged. I have had 15 years of failure. When you have had 15 years of failure, you will have my perspective. You don't think I want to find someone? Do you think I like spending every year that passes by alone? No I don't. Is there any way I can find someone without becoming what I despise to do it?

[Kevin T]

Becoming more confident is nothing to despise. Having a greater level of self-esteem and self-efficacy will make you more attractive to women and who knows; they could end up hitting on YOU first!

[heloladies21]

Go get that ebook and dvd set from mystery. Check out link removed and get some of their material Sign up for the free newsletters. Be willing to try their advice even if it seems wrong. Go out and try the advice, come back here and post your results, mostly just the factual ones, not the subjective self pity. Get feedback and learn from your experience. This is your recipie for success, take it or leave it.

[Salucious]

I just started reading "The Game" which isn't exactly Mystery's methods as a guide, but one guy's story as to how he met and came to be like Mystery. I have to say it is interesting; though I don't have $200 to shell out for the DVDs, even if I did have it that is a lot to spend for a self-help kind of thing.

 

The only thing that concerns me is that while a lot of the methods make sense and are believable in their success, at times it seems they ask you to be a different person, like they are simply telling you what to say. I probably won't practice this stuff until I've read the book, so I guess I'll find out then.

[Dating Coach]

I have to say that Heloladies did his best to try to help doubleleg. In fact it was awe inspiring.

 

doubleleg, you can succeed at this, but not with your current attitude. You say you really want to improve but you haven't been very willing to even consider some great advice on here. Heloladies and I have very similar view on this and also have very similar pasts.

 

I was desperate to have a girlfriend my whole life, but I failed over and over again, always ending up as the "friend" or even if I managed to get past that stage for even a little bit, it ended badly for me. I too resorted to blaming everyone but myself. I blamed women, I blamed jerks, I started dreading the fact I was going to live alone. Then I had it. I had enough. Blaming women, blaming jerks, etc did NOTHING to make me feel better, did nothing to improve my situation, and all it was, was a drain on me. I took it upon myself first to accept responsibility. I was the only common denominater.

 

Then I had to start working on changing my approach and trying to learn how to interact with women better. I never changed who I was, because I never intended to treat women like a jerk would, but I learned how best to deal with situations and improve my social skills.

 

Your social skills need a lot of work, and you seem to be having a very difficult time accepting that you need to do anything different. What you think should work, doesn't. You're sending all of the wrong vibes to women and you aren't getting success. You probably aren't even meaning to send half of the vibes that you do, and you likely aren't making the impression you feel you should be making. It's not women. It's your delivery.

 

Learning to improve as Heloladies and I have done does not change who you are, it changes your delivery, it changes your confidence, and with practice it improves you social skills and ability to interract.

 

From this moment on you really should stop trying to place blame. Your mind should be a sponge, not a rock. You will never improve or get where you think you outta be when your mind is a rock.

 

Read the link in my signiture. Go to link removed and read the articles by Doc Love. Keep your mind open and quit ignoring advice without really understanding it. Approach it like a scientist. Unbiased, and willing to learn and understand. If in a couple of years you have a very strong grasp of it, then judge it. Until then you need to be open.

[doubleg137]

It just seems like I'm being asked to be something I'm not just to get something that I think not everyone is meant to get. I tell that to my friends and they think its a load of bull.

I'm willing to listen, but please don't ask me to try something I think is wrong. Acting predatory is very wrong in my eyes, bordering on criminal. You will NEVER get me to do anything that strikes me as even skirting on predatory in nature, because that is wrong, and it is not me. I wish you could just have my experiences to get my perspective on this. I don't dread the fact that I may live alone, it would be nice to not to. I've been alone for the majority of my life. To have it different would be a deviation from the norm rather than the norm.

I will read all the information that you send me, and should I ever go out again, I might try some of the "techniques" that you espouse. I would have a little less apprehension should I get the same message from someone that I can reasonably be assured to speak credibly on the issue.

I also find it difficult to send any vibes at all when I do my best to not interact with anyone. I will do my best to listen, but where do you suggest I try this, since I can't remember the last time I have been to anywhere social.

Work is not a place that I look for anyone, because that is the worst place to find anyone. Suggestions guys... anyone?

[Dating Coach]

I would like you to define "predatory" because there is NOTHING predatory about actively participating and initiating conversations with women you don't know. That's how I met my fiance' (my avatar). I wouldn't have met her if I sat on my butt too scared to talk to anyone.

[heloladies21]

Dude, what it all comes down to is you don't want to change your life. You want to complain about it, but until you're willing to make a change, this discussion is pointless.

[doubleg137]

I would like you to define "predatory" because there is NOTHING predatory about actively participating and initiating conversations with women you don't know. That's how I met my fiance' (my avatar). I wouldn't have met her if I sat on my butt too scared to talk to anyone.

 

I don't know how to do what you do without feeling like its wrong. It seems so wrong to me to be aggresive in that manner and initiating something when I don't have the slightest clue on how to read if its welcome or not. If any advance gets rejected, then it seems very wrong to be to have done it, I feel like I was preying on them, and I feel like apologizing for even trying. I know that is where my problem lies. Until I can know what to do, and where to do it, and when to do it, I don't think I should even move. This is where I know I need help.

 

I know the guys I call the jerks have this move down pat, either that or they have an 8-ball for a heart and don't even care about what havoc they wreak among women. I don't like to make anyone feel uncomfortable for any reason. I feel bad for doing it, or even to have the potential for it. Maybe I should get over that and replace the heart I have with an 8-ball. But then, I would have become what I despise to get what I want, which is what I don't want to do.

 

Im willing to change what I do, but I will not become one of those types to get there. I will have to remain the person I am. Please don't ask me to become what I am not. If I have to change it, maybe we could find a middle ground.

[JustFriends]

I understand that you don't want to change your personality, but the idea that initiating conversation, etc. with women is wrong just isn't true, at least in most sistuations. I know that me saying that probably won't change the way you feel about it, but if you just take a step back you'll see that objectively, if you're intentions aren't bad, then there's nothing wrong with approaching women you don't know. The only thing I can say is that the more you try it, the more you'll realize that it's not something bad at all.

[heloladies21]

Im willing to change what I do, but I will not become one of those types to get there. I will have to remain the person I am. Please don't ask me to become what I am not. If I have to change it, maybe we could find a middle ground.

We've already had this discussion. You don't have to become what you despise to get women. I've already offered you the middle ground. You refuse to take that too.

[doubleg137]

Just as soon as I read the enewsletters and spend the money to buy the DVD sets right?

[heloladies21]

It would be a start, but you're not serious about this. I can tell, trying to convince you to want it, it's not my bag and I have nothing to gain by talking you into it. I'm just trying to help you personally and I've given you the answer, it's up to you to decide whether or not you want to take it. End of discussion.

[doubleg137]

It would be a start, but you're not serious about this. I can tell, trying to convince you to want it, it's not my bag and I have nothing to gain by talking you into it. I'm just trying to help you personally and I've given you the answer, it's up to you to decide whether or not you want to take it. End of discussion.

 

Its difficult to be positive in the face of a mountain of failures that would dwarf Olympus Mons. Discouragement doesn't do justice to begin to describe it. I just wish you had my experiences. You would know where I was coming from. However, I will try. I will read what you recommended, and I will read what will continue to be sent to me by you or any others who may feel the initiative to do so. If this doesn't work, then this will be it, because I'm out of bullets and my only recourse is to throw the gun.

[heloladies21]

I'm not asking you to be positive about it, I'm just telling you to blindly try it and give it a good effort. The results will speak for themselves. Whether you believe it's going to work or not is irrevelant, I already know it will provided you give it the proper effort. But you have to be dedicated to applying the advice you hear, even if it sounds wrong to you.

 

If you're serious about this, then stop posting on this thread because the time spent on this is better served researching the resources I've given you. If you want to post, post on a new experience you've had. Like if you tried with a new girl. Even if you wanted to try and didn't, write a post about it and you will get feedback on things you could've done or done better.

 

No more of the self pity. It's a waste of space.

[Dating Coach]

I don't know how to do what you do without feeling like its wrong. It seems so wrong to me to be aggresive in that manner and initiating something when I don't have the slightest clue on how to read if its welcome or not. If any advance gets rejected, then it seems very wrong to be to have done it, I feel like I was preying on them, and I feel like apologizing for even trying.

 

I fail to see how it is predatory or aggressive to be friendly and talk to someone. Besides, isn't that their judgement call? I know a lot of women and very very few would consider a friendly guy talking to them as predatory. In fact, it would probably be welcomed.

 

Besides, worrying constantly about how someone else may or may not feel over something as trivial as starting a conversation or asking for a number is a complete waste of time. You cannot control what other people think or what other people feel. To worry about something that is beyond your control is about as pointless as it gets. I think you try to shoulder far too much responsibility.

 

Why do you feel being friendly is preying? Why... do you feel like you are preying on women? Are you a bad guy? Do you have evil intentions? I don't think so, I think you have nothing but good intentions so how could someone with good and innocent intentions be preying? You scared that they might not recognize this and blow you off? Big deal! Like I said, you cannot control other people's feelings and if you come accross a wackjob who is actually offended that you tried to be friendly and strike up a conversation then that reflects badly on them not you.

 

There is nothing predatory about talking to a stranger. And if you really have that big of a problem with it, then start signing up for extracurricular activities. Sign up for yoga, the gym, a volleyball league, SOMETHING that causes you to be on a team or in a group. Then you have a REASON to start meeting new people.

 

As long as you are friendly and polite people will accept that happily, unless they are simply losers and rude people and in that case, who cares, shrug your shoulders and walk away. Who needs someone like that? I'd rather be alone.

 

I know the guys I call the jerks have this move down pat, either that or they have an 8-ball for a heart and don't even care about what havoc they wreak among women.

 

Which guys are jerks? I find that "jerks" are one of the most overused labels placed on guys out there. Guys are individuals just like women, and we are every bit as equal as women. We are not their servants and our lives aren't meant to be wasted waiting on women hand and foot treating them like they are our slave masters.

 

Usually when I hear the term "jerks" used, it is by guys who are self titled "nice guys" whom have a strong tendency to do use niceness in order to get women to like them. Guys who do the nicest things possible, giving free rides, being a shoulder to cry on, buying gifts for a girl every week, etc. These guys usually are the ones calling other guys jerks, and the guys who are being called jerks are usually (but not always) guys who do nothing less than stand up for themselves and refuse to cater to women in order to earn their affection. A guy is not a jerk if he tells a girl he's not going to pick her up and take her work and back everyday if she's not his girlfriend. A guy is not a jerk for asking something in return for a favor. A guy is not a jerk for telling a girl what he wants for once. A guy is not a jerk for willingly arguing with a girl if he feels she disrespected him. A guy is not a jerk if he won't play the role of the shoudler to cry on. A guy is not a jerk if he approaches a girl he thinks is attractive and strikes up a conversation, even if she blows him off-as long as he maturely shrugs his shoulders and moves on. That's not a jerk.

 

A jerk is someone who is completely selfish and rude. Rude would be a guy demanding that a girl pick him up from work and take him home. A jerk would demand sex and refuse to do anything for her. A jerk would degrade a woman for little things. A jerk would yell at his girlfriend for going out one night with her friends when he himself goes out with friends all of the time. A jerk would approach a woman and then degrade her if she blows him off.

 

Girls respond to confident men, that's what they are attracted to. They WANT a confident man, a provider, a self respecting person. A person who is afraid to talk to a woman for fear of being considered predatory is not a confident person. A man who lets women use him for favors and never asks for anything in return isn't a "nice guy" he's a guy with no self respect. Favors are nice, but the guys who usually do this let it happen all of the time until it becomes expected of him and he gets used. He's not nice because of this, he's a doormat and doormats don't get respect from women.

 

A good woman would rather have a guy stand up to her and defend himself if she wrongs him than a guy who rolls over and lets her abuse him.

 

I don't like to make anyone feel uncomfortable for any reason. I feel bad for doing it, or even to have the potential for it. Maybe I should get over that and replace the heart I have with an 8-ball. But then, I would have become what I despise to get what I want, which is what I don't want to do.

 

Standing up for yourself and pursuing your dreams does not make you have a heart of stone. I'm one of the nicest guys according to most girls I know yet I have no qualms about standing up for myself to women. Hell, ESPECIALLY women.

 

You don't like making people feel uncomfortable? Neither do I, but sometimes it is necessary. You sound like a people pleaser, a guy who goes through life using excessive nicessness in order to be accepted. That is why you fail with women, because women (well guys too...) like having friends who are people pleasers but they don't date them... at least not for long. Why? Who can truly respect someone who has such little respect for themselves? It's true. If a people pleaser constantly puts other peoples feelings and goals ahead of their own, then they never get anywhere. The only thing they get is walked on. What respectable woman would want a guy who values his own needs and wants so lowly? A woman doesn't want a boy, she wants a man, a guy who respects himself enough to put his foot down at times and say, "Hey, not this time. I did that for you last time, this time it's my turn."

 

Dude, you're in your late 30's and you've never had a real girlfriend. Don't you think you deserve someone now? You've been letting people get what they want around you your whole life. It's time you start doing things for YOU. I'm not saying you have to be an * * * or even rude, but if the people around you are worth anything, they'll understand that it's your turn. I hardly expect nor do I want you to be a guy who is a jerk or an abuser, but it's time to start putting yourself in front more. Until you decide that it's time for you, you'll always feel left out. A woman respects a man who respects himself. That's what you need to remedy.

 

Think about this analogy. At work we have this guy named David. He is 35 years old and has only had one girlfriend that I can think of. David is a very friendly guy, I like him, but people take advantage of David. David can't say no to people. People will ask him to work a Saturday for them and even if he doesn't really want to, he says yes. At first, people thought it was very nice of David, but no longer. People still call David nice but now he is the guy that everyone turns to when they want off on Saturday. He's done it so much that people EXPECT him to take their workload off of them. He's being taken advantage of. You know who I place most of the blame with? David. It's his own fault that he's being used by people, because he let himself be used.

 

This is why David has a dozen female friends and hardly any guy friends. Girls always friend guys like David, not intentially to use him, but partly because he treats women with such high regard (because he desperately wants a girl to like him) and he attaches himself to them like this. He is always around them and like everyone else they get used to David doing things for them. Taking advantage of David becomes routine and normal. Do you think any of these girls are going to respect David enough to date him? No way. Those girls are going to be attracted to the other guy at work, the guy who is having David work his Saturday so he can go out and party. He's the guy who is fun and exciting. He's the guyt hat is a challenge rather than a pushover. He's the guy that pursues what he wants, and that my friend is attractive. This does not mean he's a jerk or treats women badly, it just means he VALUES HIMSELF. He places value on himself and his goals and thus he HAS value. David doesn't have value and his every action shows this to everyone.

 

It's time you give yourself value.

 

Im willing to change what I do, but I will not become one of those types to get there. I will have to remain the person I am. Please don't ask me to become what I am not. If I have to change it, maybe we could find a middle ground.

 

You can remain yourself but you need to become a better you. You need to build your self confidence, your self respect, and your self value. It's not going to happen overnight. I myself was once a people pleaser and it took me a long time-2-3 years-of constant work to finally become a self respecting confident man. After a lot of failures to get where I am, I am now engaged with a wonderful confident woman. If you really want to give it a go, you can't just try once, fail, and say, "I told you so", it takes REAL effort and time. It's up to you. Success is there and it can be yours. It just depends on how badly you want it. You deserve it, you've paid your dues and it's your time. I hope you help yourself. Good luck.

[Salucious]

I think it is difficult for all this to make sense without understanding exactly what confidence is. What you've been saying is true, you can't let people walk all over you and let you put their needs before yours. There is such a thing as being "too nice". The problem with using confidence to get women is that I think there are different levels of confidence. You can be a confident person but not confident with picking up girls. that obviously makes it hard for girls to notice you are confident. Then there are people who are confident and outgoing, these are the kind of guys who get the most women. Like me, I consider myself confident but I am not very social. I don't go out to parties/clubs I'd rather hang out with a few friends and relax. This makes it hard to meet girls. Also you need to be an interesting person, or have something interesting about you for girls to be attracted.

 

Simply being able to talk to an attractive girl with confidence won't necessarily get a phone number or lead to anything. She may know you have the balls to talk to her but if she thinks you're boring then you don't have a chance. It is what Mystery explains in his methods. You need SR value (Survival and Replication) She needs to know that you have value, like you have a lot of friends and that people respect you and follow you around.

 

So the idea that all you need is confidence is part of attracting a woman, but I think the reality is that you need to have a certain social status as well. Like I've said in other threads, I am confident when talking to women and have confidence in myself, but my biggest problem is that I have low SR value; women don't see me with lots of friends and I don't have a "following" I guess I just need to find the kind of girl that defines you by who you are, not by how popular you are (but basically popularity is a big advantage)

 

what do you think heloladies/diggity?

[heloladies21]

Yes! Very true and this is something that I've thought bout a lot lately. The typical PC response on "How do I get girls?" is "just be yourself". To this I agree, but there are many sides of me, one of which is a seducer, so to this I would say "I already am being myself, I don't know any other way to be, but I'm still not getting any girls this way." Of course you should be yourself, you're just trying to develop a skill.

 

If they know just a little bit about how to get girls, then they might say "Be confident", but what does this exactly mean to be confident? Is it some type of magical aura that women will be able to sens and want to jump into bed with you just because you think in a certain way? Not exactly.

 

Confidence is more of a result than an action in this sense. You are going to become naturally confident as your success increases with girls, but what actions do you take to show a girl you're confident right now? Some of it has to do with the physical, like body posture, facial expressions, vocal tone, inflections, and projection. For this you have to see it in examples. Look to guys like Hulk Hogan especially in his reality TV show, Vince McMahon in interviews (must be wrestling fan, right?), Tom Cruise (even though he's crazy, look at the way he acts and says things), Roger Clemens when he's pitching. These guys have it down, especially the Hulkster.

 

Then there are other ways you can show your confidence, like passing her confidence tests. Like if you're at a party and she's ignoring you, are you gonna just go into a shell and have a horrible time (or even worse leave)? No, you show her you're a confident guy and go on having a great time, talk to some other girls right in front of her face, and let her work for your attention. Show her you cannot be shook by her actions (although there are certain times where she's testing other things like if you care, then you're going to want to address things with her very directly).

 

For you Salucious my friend, it is probably not a problem of confidence we need to solve. It is a problem of attraction, being that fun, outgoing guy who's the life of the party. We probably have to work on teasing, using sexual innuedo in it as well. This stuff is good, for examples go watch like those Austin Powers movies to see that style. You're getting a good background with this stuff, so start applying it and come back and post your results. Then we're gonna be better able to diagnose the problem, and then find a solution.

[doubleg137]

From OAP Issue 1

 

Quote:

 

"The Mystery Method is a way of meeting, attracting, and seducing beautiful women from inside their peer groups."

 

This is not my aim to go around seducing. Are the rest of the OAP issues that I have received all geared toward this? Should I spend an inordinate amount of time reading through all this? Is this all what the Mystery Method is about? Just attraction and seduction? Thats not what Im looking for.

 

I would like to have your summation of the mystery method before I spend hours trying to decipher all the code in it. Im not about the seduction. Thats a fleeting thing. I would like to have something long term. Maybe you could recommend something else?

[heloladies21]

Listen dude, before you learn how to keep the girl, you first have to learn how to get the girl, and that's where mystery comes into play. He covers the attraction, and we'll (oe even I'll) be here to help you with the rest. But before we start getting to passing tests with a girl, or getting sexual, or any of that, we have to go step by step starting from the beginning. First we start with opening conversations with girls. When you get good at this, then we'll go on to the next step, but it would be pointless to skip around and teach you how to pass the jealousy test if you don't any girl to give you the test.

 

Seduction is an incorrect term for what he's teaching, the videos explain it better. What we're working at is attraction. That's what mystery is for.

[doubleg137]

Ok.. advice taken. I just got a whole "Here's how to be a cheetah in the tall grass" vibe off the first sentence in the first paragraph. I will take a read on it, and might have some questions for you in a few days. Im assuming you have all the texts of the OAP emails?

 

I just hope my instinct on this topic and line of study is wrong. Im getting the heading down the wrong road kind of feeling from it. If I think I am being asked to be anything but genuine, then this is going to stop.

[heloladies21]

You'll give up on it prematurely if you put this kind of ultimatum on it. Like if you hear one piece of advice and go out and try once, if it doesn't work out then you give up on it? No, this takes practice, and more than any specific words you say, the way you say it is so much more important and this takes many repititions to get a hold of it.

 

Keep reading and come with something more specific. Go check out some of those other sites too, get a variety of perspective because this isn't an exact science yet and some of the advice might not apply to you or might be wrong altogether, but you might be interpreting it wrong too. That's why you have to discuss it. And also don't get too wrapped up in just the studying, you have to go out and apply what you read or you'll develop something called a student complex where you just sit and keep reading without getting any experience in the real world.

[doubleg137]

Ok.. will do..

I will be reading and asking soon enough.

If.. excuse me.. when I do go out, how do I explain the earplugs in my head to a prospective date? (Question: "Whats with the earplugs?") (Answer: "I like going to clubs but I also would like to have the ability to hear in 15 years?" )

 

I would like to be prepared for the question should it come up. Maybe the prospective answer I posted isn't good, but it is truthful. The only reason I ask it, is because one of the last times I had gone to a club, I could see the windows quivering from the concussive force from the dance floor speakers. That made me turn around and go home.

[Kevin T]

From OAP Issue 1

 

Quote:

 

"The Mystery Method is a way of meeting, attracting, and seducing beautiful women from inside their peer groups."

 

This is not my aim to go around seducing. Are the rest of the OAP issues that I have received all geared toward this? Should I spend an inordinate amount of time reading through all this? Is this all what the Mystery Method is about? Just attraction and seduction? Thats not what Im looking for.

 

I would like to have your summation of the mystery method before I spend hours trying to decipher all the code in it. Im not about the seduction. Thats a fleeting thing. I would like to have something long term. Maybe you could recommend something else?

 

You must learn to walk, before you can learn to run.

[Salucious]

I don't know about the mystery method. The ideaology seems to make sense, but despite it's apparent success, I find it kind of morbid for someone to have developed a "system" for picking up women. Despite how anyone describes it, or how effective it is, it makes you act like a different person. I've seen the videos and read the methods so I know what they are like. Even if it gets you laid, ask most of the couples who are truly in love and ask them if they met in a similar situation they will most likely say no. If hooking up with any random girl is your desire than by all means try the mystery method. If you are genuinly interested in finding a girl that you can connect with and be honest with than simply try to meet them and be yourself. Let's face it, anyone who masters using the mystery method to get girls is just a "player". It doesn't matter how successful he is, he is going after quantity not quality. It just feeds the stereotype that status in life is determined by how many girls you've slept with. If I were a rich playboy or some popular jock that get women easy maybe I'd understand why it is so important.

 

In my current position, yeah it is hard for me to meet girls because I don't have a high "S and R value" Yet I don't feel the need to increase it, by that I mean gaining a ton of friends just to heighten my status. All my life I've only made friends with people I would actually like to be around, not people who I think will make me feel "cool" or accepted. I still feel this way. I dont' think it will prevent me from meeting girls, though I do think it will limit my chances.

 

Bottom line, if you ask me, if you really need to get laid and have a lot of shallow relationships with many women, then master the mystery method I believe that it could work. But if you are seeking healthy relationships that are based on honesty and REAL quality women who want real relationships with genuine people, then just live your life and be open to meeting new people. I've been doing serious thinking about this stuff, and have considered applying the mystery method, but for now I think I"ll stick to being totally myself and just making more of an effort to put myself out there and meet people. Recently it seems to be working, I've talked to people I'd maybe last year have been too shy to talk to; and have gotten nothing but positive feedback.