Beta-rejection. (intellectual vent)

[Luke Skywalker]

This new term of rejection (I made up) is defined as when a woman is in the prime position to make a decision of action (ie. inexperienced virgin looking for someone, or a 'serious' girl that's open to action). You are showing interest and there appears to be reciprocity. Then somehow a 'player' or other 'alpha male' ends up bagging the girl and she becomes damaged goods. She either gets pregnant, or develops a resentment for men. Meanwhile you are left out.

 

This form of rejection is a lingering one and usually takes about a week to a month.

 

Other types of rejection:

 

Mutual rejection: Both parties reject each other.

 

Simple rejection: LJBF - B-shields. Any rejection or blow off of a move, or attempt to start a conversation. This form of rejection is rapid - usually can be a few seconds or minutes - or even longer depending on if it's after a date or something. No other guys are involved and you are just rejected for something you said, did, appear, or whatever.

 

************

 

Worst type of rejections for me appear to be the beta-types because they are usually lingering rejections and once the girl has surrendered her 'prime position' to someone else, then even if she accepts you afterwards - she's never in her initial prime position and the rejection still stands.

 

These types of rejections are rememebered often times for months and years after the fact, while simple rejections are often forgotten about a few minutes or hours afterwards.

 

**************

[Luke Skywalker]

Exactly two beta-rejections could be remembered - one in late November 2002, and one recently happened. No simple rejections can be remembered with effect.

 

First beta-rejection resulted in me leaving a church.

 

Beta-rejections appear infrequent - but seem to be a potent emotion to contend with.

 

Characteristics: Usually there is a 'hang-up' about the specific girl, or some quality where there seems to be a 'spiritual' connection or chemistry - and usually that is overplayed - creating an 'assumed relationship or imaginary relationship'. Women appear to be Indian or of Indian descent, and have 'weird' characteristics about them.

 

If any further correlating experiences occur, they will be posted as they arise.

 

Other people are encouraged to share their b-rejection experiences here.

[annie24]

i think that your hypothesis is not correct.

 

there is a huge side of the story missing - hers. you never will be inside her head, so you don't know the full story, as to why she made the choices she did.

 

i think you are overthinking things with too little data.

 

just accept that she isn't the one for you, simple as that, and move on to the next girl.

[Luke Skywalker]

Yes, such rejections should be interpreted positively "this is not the right girl".

 

Simple rejection = she is not the right girl.

 

Beta rejection = she is not the right girl.

 

XYZABC rejection = she is not the right girl.

 

Now that's what I call oversimplification.

 

Thus the rejection concept is mainly a one of a 'male ego phenominon'. The ego content in beta rejections are higher (possibly ten times) than simple rejections and lowest in mutal rejections.

 

Thus rejection can only occur when there is an ego at stake - and should be properly understood as an 'lowered ego state' arising from a perceived 'evaluation of sexuality' from the opposite sex.

[Luke Skywalker]

i think that your hypothesis is not correct.

 

there is a huge side of the story missing - hers. you never will be inside her head, so you don't know the full story, as to why she made the choices she did.

 

This is an 'emotional' section. I can only intellectualise emotions, but them on categories and shelve them. I'm only concerned about elements of how things feel with myself, and perhaps other people.

 

i think you are overthinking things with too little data.

 

The only data necessary is how I 'feel' and what I want to believe, even if it's not factually accurate, so long as the effect of belief maximizes the feeling or rejection creating a negative-loop dynamic - tending towards an emotional absolute. Thus for purposes of drama, and maximizing emotions, tendencies are to over-exaggerate, card-stack, or portray in a semi-propaganda manner information that would maximise dramatic impact. Even if dressing it up or fixing data produced the effect - like in a movie.

 

just accept that she isn't the one for you, simple as that, and move on to the next girl.

 

On another thread that would make allot of sense, however, for purposes of this thread I'm merely interested in cateloging emotions and feelings and finding common characteristics.

 

For example, why would I feel a 'spirit connection' with some Indian (or Indian descent) women - and experience this form of rejection within that sub-category. How come it's not experienced with women of any other race.

 

It is an interesting emotion - but having only two known experiences to write about, seems insufficient to catalogue - but being two powerful experiences, seems necessary to write something.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Maybe girls don't like being referred to as "damaged goods" because they slept with someone else and sleeping with a guy that considers them such is not their idea of fun.

 

I would consider that a common sense rejection.

[Anna.]

I like the term,

 

BUT

 

Annie's right, you have too little info

and

CB is right that you ought not to refer to women as damaged goods. This is definitely the best way to be a victim of the physically painful rejection...

[AntiLove_SuperStar]

Not quite an *intellectual rant* I'm afraid, littered with generalizations, no proof/convincing argument/evidence......

 

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Maybe girls don't like being referred to as "damaged goods" because they slept with someone else and sleeping with a guy that considers them such is not their idea of fun.

 

I would consider that a common sense rejection.

 

I think you have not read through the defination properly as the concept of the prime position is not considered in your reply which is an integral component.

 

Furthermore, when a girl develops a strong resentment of men afterwards once they were 'used' by a player, or gets pregnant, then yes, they are damaged goods. You cant get in edgewise once they have that 'resentment' hanging over them. But you also couldn't get in edgewise when they were all over the other 'player' because you were sexually invisible or not important at all to them - despite they may present a face that there is 'something' - and you cant get in after the fact due to the baggage fallout, pregnancy, or whatever -- hence the term 'beta rejection' - or a 'beta-male's position rejection'.

 

The point: You are rejected both in their prime position and after the fact.

 

Their resentment of men, pregnancy or whatever is fallout of their choice to reject you for another alpha male player in the first place, and now their baggage usually constitutes a secondary rejection because now you have to deal with baggage - which is why I used the term 'damaged goods'. She is not the same person before they made a choice in the prime position - something got damaged - she is no longer 'good' as she was before hence 'damaged goods'. One is in a sense rejected again when they have to deal with baggage fallout or resentment towards men. A common sense term.

 

Beta-rejection.

[Luke Skywalker]

I like the term,

 

BUT

 

Annie's right, you have too little info

and

CB is right that you ought not to refer to women as damaged goods. This is definitely the best way to be a victim of the physically painful rejection...

 

They are not damaged goods before you get beta-rejected. They are damaged goods AFTER you get beta-rejected.

[Luke Skywalker]

Not quite an *intellectual rant* I'm afraid, littered with generalizations, no proof/convincing argument/evidence......

 

 

 

huh. Would you like to explain further. This is scientific emotional analysis here.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Their resentment of men, pregnancy or whatever is fallout of their choice to reject you for another alpha male player in the first place, and now their baggage usually constitutes a secondary rejection because now you have to deal with baggage - which is why I used the term 'damaged goods'. She is not the same person before they made a choice in the prime position - something got damaged - she is no longer 'good' as she was before hence 'damaged goods'. One is in a sense rejected again when they have to deal with baggage fallout or resentment towards men. A common sense term.

 

Beta-rejection.

 

Thats called life, no one remains exactly the same after every encounter they experience. People change and grow, yes they are different, they are not damaged. I don't mean to be rude, but it may have nothing to do with resentment towards men, it could very well be your attitude. If you approach woman like you've approach this hypothesis, then its not hard to see why you are rejected. You're just upset you didn't get picked first or second, so whats next gamma and delta rejections as she moves on to yet more men other than you?

[Luke Skywalker]

You're just upset you didn't get picked first or second, so whats next gamma and delta rejections as she moves on to yet more men other than you?

 

Good response.

 

But virginity, or a 'prime position' is only once. For example, when a girl loses her virginity to a player, that tends to create a very strong resentment towards men, and in effect, it's much more complicated than that. In a sense a woman is nice and trusting before losing her virginity, and then becomes resentful once she's dumped like a hot potatoe by a player after the 'prize' is taken. Is there really a second or third place or turn on such a woman? There is growth, but there is also regression - people can also change for the worst rather than the better.

 

You'll notice my defination said inexperienced virgin women - there are already plenty of women out there who have the wrong attitudes and are already either 'taken' or 'gone'. It has nothing to do with my attitude, just theirs.

 

The inference that I'm a wannabe player myself and am resentful someone else 'got the prize' instead of me, and would have done the same thing if the positions were reversed is incorrect - because there was an intent for a long term relationship, girlfriend relationship, or some form of relationship in all these cases. When the girl lies to me, friend-zones me, and chooses a player instead, (because obviously they are more experienced with women and know how to press the right buttons) then I say, what goes around comes around. She was dishonest to me about her 'other life', she gets burned by a dishonest guy, sure, that's life I guess.

[Luke Skywalker]

i think that your hypothesis is not correct.

 

there is a huge side of the story missing - hers. you never will be inside her head, so you don't know the full story, as to why she made the choices she did.

 

i think you are overthinking things with too little data.

 

just accept that she isn't the one for you, simple as that, and move on to the next girl.

 

Ok, I've decided to come clean on this thread. People know me here, and know this thread is related to that other 'girl' I've been preoccupied with.

 

Let's first discuss what information I have, or what I know.

 

1) I meet her on July 1st, and she was in a very cheerful disposition, even suggesting to spend the whole day with me.

 

2) Two weeks later, she is a different person, and seems to be depressed.

 

What happened during that time - found out reading the website, some player and her did it together and dumped her like a hot potatoe- while all during the time presenting an optic presentation that she had no one else.

 

How much information do I need? I'm not stupid. In a court of law there is enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that something happened between those two dates - and I wasn't in on it.

 

I always asked her what her problem was and she would never tell me - why - based on what I read in that website - she was definitely hiding something that would have pissed me off if I found out.

 

So, I do know what was going on her head based on her change of behaviour, and I do know what she did based on what she wrote. She was never honest with me and played me, and in turn got played by someone else, it's that simple.

 

*********

 

Anyway - I understand she is not the right person, and I best move on before I end up going in a mental institution because of her.

[annie24]

How much information do I need? I'm not stupid. In a court of law there is enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that something happened between those two dates - and I wasn't in on it.

 

yes, I remember your story, but I still don't think you have enough data. I mean, you don't know for sure what happened. all you know is that she said in her blog that she thinks men are jerks now or something.

 

do you actually KNOW that they slept together??? maybe they just went on a few dates, then he dropped her, and she got mad. you really don't know what happened because 1) you weren't there and 2) she won't tell you.

 

i have to agree with carnelian. i think the issue is that you are seeing women as "damaged goods" and that sort of attitude really shows through. it is a turn off and that could have been very well what turned her off to you. you two only went on 2 dates, the last one 2 months ago. i really don't think you know enough about her and her history to overanalyze.

[melrich]

I think you could be right but only when a beta rejection is divided by a mutual rejection (or multiplied by the sum of simple rejections) and has equivalent ratios to the prime position.

 

Then again, you could be way over thinking this.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

I feel your thinking is flawed.

 

After every bad dating experience i have had i have grown as a person, learned what i wanted and what i didn't. I also learned a lot about myself.

 

I think the "players" have all contributed to my growth- they have not turned me into a man hater.

 

As for your situation with the girl - were you dating her for her to feel the need to hide her encounter? Could it just be that it was a personal experience and she didn't feel the need t o share it with you?

[Luke Skywalker]

yes, I remember your story, but I still don't think you have enough data. I mean, you don't know for sure what happened. all you know is that she said in her blog that she thinks men are jerks now or something.

 

Her blog says that men are only interested in the chase, and once they get the victory or conquest, then they are finished. She said that once the guy 'had' her, then he dropped her like a hot potatoe.

 

The type of language used in that blog - which she intends to make a song about people lying - virtually states that someone lied their way into her pants and dropped her like a hot potatoe.

 

do you actually KNOW that they slept together??? maybe they just went on a few dates, then he dropped her, and she got mad. you really don't know what happened because 1) you weren't there and 2) she won't tell you.

 

The blog contains enough information for anyone to read between the lines.

What is 'victory or conquest'? What is 'he had her, then dropped her like a hot potatoe'? It's quite obvious there is a sexual inferance.

 

Victor and conquest in what - a few dates - that's not a conquest. She already hangs out with allot of guys but never wrote something like that.

 

So, was I there -- I saw a change in behaviour so something happened.

She would not tell me. I find some strong statements and vocubalury with obvious sexual inferences in them where you'd have to be either naive or stupid not to see through them.

 

She's crying to the world that she got used and dumped - doesn't sound like a couple of dates to me.

 

i have to agree with carnelian. i think the issue is that you are seeing women as "damaged goods" and that sort of attitude really shows through.

it is a turn off and that could have been very well what turned her off to you. you two only went on 2 dates, the last one 2 months ago.

 

When I went out with her (3 dates to be accurate - one in April, one in July and one in August - last two were mainly coffee based) - she didn't disclose anything to me, and there was no 'attitude' on any of these dates. On the July 1st date - we had an arrangement to go to the islands for a picnic, for a whole day, a couple of weeks after. I was all set to take her but she wouldn't confirm and said a 'problem' came up. A problem alright - she slept with another guy when we had a date arranged - I'm supposed to be happy with that? That's beta-rejection.

 

She 'hid' this problem from me, because it's obvious I'd be offended by it. Then she writes that stuff on her blog as though nothing means anything. She says, she didn't intend to blow me off on that island date thing, or the kiss thing, and then I read this blog.

 

The fact is, I had no knowledge she was with other men when I was with her, and did not look at her as damaged goods. She was a virgin before and I'm also a virgin. I was hoping to start a relationship with a virgin, but now she seems to publicly proclaim she isn't one. She claimed to be a virgin to me in April when we meet. Now I dont know. All I know she has baggage from someone else, and things wont be the same now, even if we were to start a relationship because she'll have this other guy that she was 'in love' with that dumped her, or whatever.

 

i really don't think you know enough about her and her history to overanalyze.

 

I know enough about what she told me over the course that I knew her.

 

She was one person on July 1st, and a totally different person a couple of weeks after. Again, there was no attitude or anything, she enjoyed the July 1st meeting and that was it, she was playing me with another guy.

 

That's the point of this rejection category - when a girl chooses one guy over another guy, although she seems to go for both of them, one guy is beta-rejected.

 

Right now, I have an attitude, and that's because I'm reading a blog that totally offended me for obvious reasons.

[Luke Skywalker]

As for your situation with the girl - were you dating her for her to feel the need to hide her encounter? Could it just be that it was a personal experience and she didn't feel the need t o share it with you?

 

I was dating her for her to feel the need to hide that encounter.

 

She has always portrayed herself as not having time for a relationship, having crazy schedules, and presenting optics that would indicate that she was aware that I had a romantic intent and would be put off if she was involved or had strong feelings for another guy. She had even suggested that we would kiss at a later date when the moment is right - that's more than a pleutonic arrangement. Our last communication was in the beginning of August, and I dont know what happened afterwards.

 

I found out about her blog, when I came back from Italy, and that's when I constructed a rejection experience going back to July and felt it strong.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

are you open to my opinion regarding the situation?

[Luke Skywalker]

are you open to my opinion regarding the situation?

 

 

It doesn't matter, it's a public board, if it doesn't help me, it may help someone else going through something similar.

 

I'd venture that I'm bordering on madness and should see a therapist if continue thinking about this girl any further. Any further opinion to that?

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

yes...lol

 

but i think you already know that she may not be as interested in you as you are in her...and perhaps it's easier to believe that this "player" tainted her view of men ..thereforeeee leaving her bitter...and uninterested in you.

 

Sometimes people aren't ready for what you have to offer...I'd say that if you want to remain friendly with her then do so..but I would lay off the dating and the dating conversaton.

 

I know it's an open board...but you brought up the girl as a side topic and wasn't sure if you were interested in comments regarding the girl or your theory.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Since when does going on a few dates require her to make full disclosure of her life? Were you exclusive? Doesn't sound like, she has no obligation to you, you have no right to her.

 

Also, unless you start dating teenage girls you're not going to find many virgins around, and frankly its very superficial to define a womans value based on her sex life. You want women to go out with you, try treating them with respect and consideration, otherwise your obvious desire to just "take the prize" will shine through and you get tossed aside because they see you for the player you are.

 

They aren't damaged, they're smarter. They see you for a charlatan and don't put up with the disrespect and use.

[Luke Skywalker]

Since when does going on a few dates require her to make full disclosure of her life? Were you exclusive? Doesn't sound like, she has no obligation to you, you have no right to her.

 

She has an obligation to be honest. I dont care about full disclosure about her life, I care if she has any other 'relationships' or guy she is really intereted in. If I'm not entitled to that honesty, then there is not even a friendship as far as I'm concerned. If all she can tell me is she has no room in her life for relationships, and there is no other guy, and I'm being strung along on the hope there is something while she's sleeping with other guys, then I dont think that is fair.

 

Also, unless you start dating teenage girls you're not going to find many virgins around, and frankly its very superficial to define a womans value based on her sex life.

 

I'm a virgin myself. If I wasn't a virgin, I'd see your point.

 

You want women to go out with you, try treating them with respect and consideration, otherwise your obvious desire to just "take the prize" will shine through and you get tossed aside because they see you for the player you are.

 

I have social anxiety issues and am shy around women and am totally so inexperienced that I'm too obvious, so even if I were sincere, they see I'm green and get turned off - they want more challenging and exciting guys, or if I'm trying to make a move - then I'm overt. A player doesn't show an 'obvious desire' to get a prize - an inexperienced guy shows an 'obvious desire'. A player has been with so many women, and knows women - so it's only after the woman is used that she knows whether the guy is sincere or is just a player.

 

If any lesson is to be learned is that I should learn to become a player, because you get eaten up alive all the time you are sincere. Does that make sense?

 

This is what I got being inexperienced and sincere: Run-arounds, dishonesty, being strung along with false hope, and now seeing baggage, rejections. Here is a girl that never took me seriously, and is now 'in love' with a player that used her and is crying about it while all I can do is look on and write these dreadful threads and posts.

 

They aren't damaged, they're smarter. They see you for a charlatan and don't put up with the disrespect and use.

 

See that's the thing, a good player knows how to appeal to women and portray themselves in such a way that they are genuine and use a woman. Someone who doesn't have a clue, or may even be sincere, has to put up with the damage control from prior players and have a negative frame like this one to put up with - either that or are never taken seriously as a man in the first place while the player get's the girl. That's why it's a losing battle all the time.

[Luke Skywalker]

yes...lol

 

but i think you already know that she may not be as interested in you as you are in her...and perhaps it's easier to believe that this "player" tainted her view of men ..thereforeeee leaving her bitter...and uninterested in you.

 

No, she had a website saying just that. Furthermore, she told me she had a problem. But in a sense you are right. I'd rather her dismiss me as a potential player than having little interest because at least I'm visible.

 

So, I agree with your suggestion. However, verbal statements were made on the last meeting on August 1st that may have portrayed myself as a player in an overt way. She asked me what I was looking for, and I blurted out 'casual relationships' and 'playing the field', I dont know why it came out, but it just did. I never had a relationship before and thought she would reject me again, because she always rejected me when I said I was interested in a relationship with her like I"m not good enough, so I said that instead and couldn't help it. Do you understand? She couldn't reject me if I said casual relationship so I shielded myself.

 

Sometimes people aren't ready for what you have to offer...I'd say that if you want to remain friendly with her then do so..but I would lay off the dating and the dating conversaton.

 

No, I think I'd have to see a therapist if I'm going to think of remaining friendly with her. A man can only be rejected so many times by one woman before going crazy. Time to move on in life.