Things CAN get worse...

[Beec]

I agree with and disagree with scarew. I think you do reward him for good behavior, but not big rewards. You have begun basically being to him like a stern parent. And he is responding to it to some extent. He is doing some work to get what you are offerring, and to some extent, you are offerrring soemthing to him, or he would not be doing what he is doing. A small reward may be as little a a comment like a "attaboy", or soemthing else, but it's not moving in with him until he has proven himself, that reward require shim to have much invested so he doesn't want to throw it all away. When he has worked hard at making himself a new life, he'll be less likely to want to throw it away. But for now, keep that distance.

[scarew]

Yes yes. I didn't mean to sound so strict. Attaboy is needed for sure. i don't think NC is a good idea, but just, like beec said, the distance. He just needs to see that he has to work for you and that you will only start to pay attention to him once he shows it through his actions, not his words.

 

Bitbit, I don't want to critisize, but if you have been reading through this whole post you would know that adoption is probably not an option for BTR. She is really excited for her baby. She is also an amazing, strong, intelligent woman would be well aware of that option if she felt it was necessary.

 

Sorry, I have preggo protectiveness. It's my pet peeve when I get posts that give me simple but drastic decisions.

[BornToResist]

In regards to bitbit: I get some "off" posts because since this thread is SO long, people get through a couple pages, then post about where I was months ago.

 

But no, adoption is clearly out of the question. You could see that even in the beginning of this thread. Even though we don't get along all the time and have our differences, BOTH parents want this kid. He won't get a better mom than me, I'll make sure of that. I already know him better than anyone ever will. He's changed me...I've become such a better person since I got pregnant. I couldn't imagine handing my baby over...nope, not the option for me. But thanks scarew, you're going to be such an awesome mommy yourself.

 

Anyways, as for R, I'm glad that you think NC is a bad option. He goes back and forth all the time with his progress and I've put more of an effort in with this guy than I ever should have had to, but sometimes I see progress and it makes me so happy. I don't have high hopes anymore, but I can't just walk away. I can't let him affect my life to such an extent anymore either though. So I made changes, and things are okay for the moment.

 

But I do have to say, even though I have badmouthed and vented about R like no other, all in all, he's a better person than he was. He's admitted his mistakes, and he's trying to change them. What else can a person do...?

[scarew]

Your doing awesome. Maintain this level of neutrality as long as you can honey and you will both benifit. R is proving himself, so he needs time to do that. Nothing wrong with reinforcement though.

[Hope75]

Hey BTR,

 

So proud of you for standing your ground and not backing down. And also happy and somewhat surprised that R tried to listen. I would still be cautious- part of me suspects that he's giving in a bit because he thinks you will let down your guard and he might get what he wants.

 

But part of me hopes he is for real. I am glad that he is saying he will be trying harder- now let's put that to the test and see him do it- like paying his first and last month's rent, and sticking in ONE place for 6+ months, paying rent and bills on time, keeping clean, and keeping other drug addicts out of his house.

 

He (or you) should talk to a lawyer about this detox situation-- I don't hold stock in that unless you hear it from a professional.

 

Pat yourself on the back, BTR- you did awesome.

[BornToResist]

Thank you!!

 

He's going to be getting a lawyer here really soon to deal with everything with his ex, so I'll encourage him to find out more information about it. I do know if she found out, she would totally use it against him so I definently understand his fear. On Dr. Phil the guy only got 4 hours of supervised visits a week because he went to rehab...but who knows what that guy's story is and what he did when he was using.

 

I feel really good about R but I'm fully prepared for him to keep approaching the subject with me, trying to win me over. I see his point of view in an idealistic sense...it would be wonderful to have both parents under the same roof to be there for our kids. He doesn't seem to grasp that that is ultimately what I would love to happen, but it's just NOT POSSIBLE at the moment. I know the reality of the situation now (just had to open my eyes for once) and am willing to accept things for how they are.

 

It's so much better this way.

 

We could possibly have a shot at this, if he decides to give it his all. I'm always optomistic when it comes to him because I know he can be great and I know he WANTS to be but never really knew how to be...but the time for excuses is over.

 

I feel so strong and great about everything at the moment.

 

Now...I just have to tell my dad. *gasp*

[Hope75]

Did your dad ever call you back that day?

[BornToResist]

Yes he did...he left me his cell number to call him back.

 

But......I chickened out. Big surprise. I feel so bad about not telling him yet, but then I'll just sit there with the phone in my hand, too scared to call him.

 

I don't really know what I'm afraid of, but I'm terrified.

[Hope75]

Hmmm..

 

Sounds like the longer you put it off- the harder it becomes.

 

BTR, You've told me some things about your dad... that make me think that he has gone down some crooked paths a time or two in his own life. He might be more understanding than you think he is.

 

And if he gives you a hard time, perhaps calmy and quietly asking for his acceptance will help things too.

[Beec]

Call him, tell him.

 

I know of many people who just about hd there heads removed when they told their parents things. I know of few parents who do not dote their grandchildren or at least the idea of them. So, he may not be happy immediately, but I also bet he will be angry if he just finds he's already been born. Do it soon.

[BornToResist]

So R just called me and asked "so have you thought any more about the living situation...?" and was sugary sweet again. I shut him down and told him I'm not about to begin discussing this again while I'm at work.

 

I'll have to have the conversation all over again once I get home, but I was expecting to. I'm busy tonight so I don't have time to get into it, let alone ANY patience left whatsoever.

 

My prediction...since he took things really well last time and we were able to enjoy each other's company after the conversation before, chances of that happening again are slim. So I'll put on my armor before I call him and expect to battle, but if they work out okay, then even better!

 

I'm so through with fighting and arguing and being told what I can and cannot do.

[Dilly]

So R just called me and asked "so have you thought any more about the living situation...?" and was sugary sweet again. I shut him down and told him I'm not about to begin discussing this again while I'm at work.

 

I'll have to have the conversation all over again once I get home, but I was expecting to. I'm busy tonight so I don't have time to get into it, let alone ANY patience left whatsoever.

 

My prediction...since he took things really well last time and we were able to enjoy each other's company after the conversation before, chances of that happening again are slim. So I'll put on my armor before I call him and expect to battle, but if they work out okay, then even better!

 

I'm so through with fighting and arguing and being told what I can and cannot do.

 

God, the incessant relentless requests by these guys for support! Shameless!!! You're strong! You know what you have to do. GOOD LUCK!!! (((HUGS))) He can't get to you.

[Hope75]

I'm confused-

 

didn't you JUST tell him that you were not going to move in with him?

 

Was he even listening to you at all? Or perhaps my original thought was right, and he thinks if he acts nice and sweet, you will cave and give him what he wants.

 

is thick, or just very manipulative!

[BornToResist]

is thick, or just very manipulative!

 

I don't know which one it is...but yeah. I JUST told him that. So by saying "have you thought anymore about it" he means "have you seen the light and are going to give in?"

 

I'm just going to tell him nothing has changed from the other day and ask him why he thought it would? Or what's there to think about...? I hate how you think of something to say right once the moment has passed. He just took me off guard, which he is so capable of doing.

 

Even a couple hours after our conversation he was acting all nice and sweet and could tell something was wrong...and I told him I felt like he wasn't listening or wasn't quite getting what I was saying but he assured me he was.

 

He got a place to live...I told him to go on with that...I DON'T GET why things would have changed like this. SO FRUSTRATING.

[Hope75]

Hmmm...

 

Yeah, it sounds as though unless you are saying what he wants to hear, he really isn't listening to you. Not terribly surprising, but really frustrating.

 

Just when you think you may have gotten through a little and guess what? Nope. I'd be ripping my hair out if I were you.

 

No wonder you feel totally invalidated and disrespected. You are.](*,)

[Beec]

Perhaps he thinks that getting the stuff done is enough. I think he is going to need to know you are happy he's done it, that the thoughts occur to you, but that you need more proof. He's going to have to keep it up for a good long while.

[Dilly]

He got a place to live...I told him to go on with that...I DON'T GET why things would have changed like this. SO FRUSTRATING.

 

You don't gety why WHAT things would have changed like this? That he got a place?

 

Stay strong.

[BornToResist]

It's just frustrating because I stated VERY clearly that nothing in this world will make me even consider moving until well after the baby is born. Even then the idea of us doing it together wasn't resolved, you know?

 

Maybe this will be just the sign I need. Will he realize there are TWO people in this relationship and act accordingly? Or will he push and push to get his way until he just pushes me away entirely?

 

Towards the end of our conversation, I stated my peace, and he said things like "well can you at least see where I'm coming from?" and I'd reply yes, but I still feel the way I do and that's not changing. So maybe since I acknowledged the way he felt, that gave him some sort of distorted idea that I'm going to completely change my stance and give in...?

 

Well let me not get ahead of myself. I was VERY clear with him this last time and I will ask him directly why he thinks things are different and all that.

 

HE is the one with the obvious problem, not me. For once I stood my ground and didn't budge.

[BornToResist]

You don't gety why WHAT things would have changed like this? That he got a place?

 

Stay strong.

 

No, he started moving in the direction we talked about in our conversation. I wanted him to get his own place, become stable, then we would see where we stood pretty much.

 

So we came up with a these-things-must-happen-first list, and he doesn't even finish with item #1 and he expects us to move in together....?

 

All he's done is found a place to live. Now he has to move in, get financially stable, prove to me he's going to be there, yadda yadda yadda. But nope, skip the steps..

 

And the way he worded it..."have you thought any more about our situation"?!?!? That just makes me mad...he's not asking what I feel about it, he's asking if I've come around to HIS way of thinking.

 

He really doesn't even try to understand where I'm coming from, does he..? He doesn't listen, he doesn't care. WHAT THE HECK.

 

Sorry this turned into a rant, I'm just realizing what an idiot he must think I am.

[Dilly]

Excellent. While it sounds like he is pushing the issue, he may not be bearing down over you telling you what you had better do, or else (threat of the day). I am glad he's asking you to at least see his perspective, because it almost sounds like he's merely looking for validation, not buy-in. Now, I have a problem with it when it becomes a daily harassment. Or a third or fourth conversation initiated over the topic in a short period of time. That's not cool.

 

I'm so happy for and proud of you!!!

[Hope75]

I think, BTR, and correct me if I am wrong- that because essentially you DID take him back (you are a couple again, right?) that he feels like he won one victory, and since, with his pushy attitude and complete lack of initiative, and, basically having made little to no changes, you took him back anyway, so why wouldn't you move in with him?

 

I've thought about it a bit, and I do worry about the message you are sending him by still being his girlfriend. If you are still with him... you are letting him know with your actions, that you accept how he is now and think he's a good partner to be with, even if your words are saying otherwise. I may be off base here but I get the impression that you did basically take him back... is that correct? And that directly or indirectly you have lead him to believe that you are back together, on some level.... am I right?

 

I do think that if you want your words to have any real meaning to him they also have to be followed by actions. And it's great that you have not caved into his pressure about moving in, but.....you did in fact, take him back after everything he has put you through, you supporting him, the ugly move out of your apartment, the breakup, all the fights, his anger and manipulation, all his hurtful comments, his drug use and total instability....

 

Sorry Girl, I don't mean to be harsh- but the more I think about this, the more I see an inconsistancy with your words and your actions, and that could well be part of why he has made little to no effort to make any changes. He may be confused about what you want because if he is good enough to date or be with as he is, why not move in together?

 

Do you think it's possible he thinks this way?

 

Am I wrong?

 

Are you not together as a couple? What does HE think you are? What have you led him to believe by not saying otherwise?

[Beec]

He's testing you.

 

Yes, he has performed, A BIT, and that should get some recognition. He's on the right path. But how far along on that list is he? Not far, not clsoe to far enough.

 

Just because someone asks for something don't always think that they want it, or will be happy if you give it to them. R is going to be happier in the end if he achieves what you want him to and you are together. If you read enough of the player sites directed at men, something I think women should do (at least the free ones), you would read about "how women test men" and that passing the test oftens requires you to tell a woman "no". I doubt most women know or think about doing stuff like this, but I also have seen time and again, a woman who was told now comes back soon after more infatuated and in love with the guy that said it. A man who does not just give to a woman is more likely to be the guy who does not give in to his whining children.

 

Men do the same things in many ways. he is testing you to see if you mean what you say. Stick to your guns. It's gotten you a lot of movement from him so far. Don't give in now. A little recognntion sure, but not giving in.

[BornToResist]

Yeah we are pretty much a couple again, you're right Hope.

 

And it might not have been the best decision I ever made. But he has treated me better and basically the bottom line is, as horrible as it sounds, is I don't want to be single when I have this baby. I've been terrified to be alone while pregnant. It makes me feel like crap every day and that's why I've put up with so much.

 

He has changed how he handles our relationship...and sometimes I do feel like I'm in over my head, but we WERE communicating (it's obvious that didn't happen this last time though) and I like being with my baby's dad...I don't know how else to say it but I don't want to cut the strings again at the moment.

 

Like I said, it may have been a bad idea, but I don't know. I just like it better this way for now.

 

I talked to him for a second last night but I was pretty tired so nothing was brought up. I don't know what to say anymore. I don't want to live with him and this is why. He doesn't listen, he doesn't take me seriously, nothing. And maybe I'll end up dumping him again for good. It's hard to describe but I can fully see that happening after the baby is born. It's so hard to exlain. Like I don't feel right being single and pregnant. I just don't. It's stupid.

 

I don't see this working out long term. I am already backsliding. I can feel myself wanting to do things like check his phone bill and stuff because I don't trust him still. I can't do that...I hate being that person. I'm not a jealous one, I'm not deceitful and I generally give people the benefit of the doubt, but when this part of me pops up it's never a good thing.

 

I'm confused again. I know I don't want to live with him, but how can I make him get it? He says things like "I've been more than patient" I HATE THAT ONE. What does he mean he's been more than patient? Don't do me any favors, buddy. I've been waiting for him to clean up his act forever. He thinks that it's a bad idea to live separately and I'm being selfish, I know he does. He doesn't listen to me.

 

I'm just confused right now. He always goes back to who he is, I don't know why I think he'll ever be different.

 

I know I *should* break up with him but I just can't right now. I can't. *sigh*

[Dilly]

My sister and I were talking about this last night: that at some point, you realize, God, I'm turning into a B---- around this person. I don't like being a b---- and so, then, and really no later than then, is the time to declare your dying love. It's not fun being an insecure snoop, especially when you have alot to offer someone else. I think I understand what you mean. Pregnancy is a cozy time of nesting ideally and certainly not one many would wish to experience alone. I can't imagine giving birth without Robert in the room with me, but then again, I can't imagine him NOT WANTING to be there. Even though they are punks, they feel compelled to some extent to be present for the big events.

 

Anyway, stay strong and true to yourself. You know what you want and what you don't.

[Dilly]

This is another brilliant post!!!