make him prove himself to you.

[iamteddybearfeelmecuddle]

I'm agreeing with Teacup and with Annie here. Been my experience too. Still waiting to be proven wrong.

[ElektraHere]

Originally Posted by teacup

does anyone agree with this advice?

 

from my short and limited dating experience. (was in stupid abusive relationship for the longest time)

 

i have learned that the guy has to prove himself. if he's really interested, he'll call me. if he's really sincere, he wont make excuses. if he really cares, he'll ask to see me in advance. if he really wants to, he'll find a way. if he really was for real, he'll contact me. if he wants me, he'll make the time.

all i have to do is sit back and say, yes or no, if im interested or not.

otherwise, i move on.

 

Basically what you are saying is pretty much common sense. Would you go after someone who werent these things? If so then its pretty foolish. I think this advice has been written its caled "He's Just Not That into You."

[itsallgrand]

all i have to do is sit back and say, yes or no, if im interested or not.

 

This is the objectionable part.

 

I believe in 'pulling your own weight'. Back n' forth right from the beginning. Is it ever a case of one being completely passive and one being completely active? I don't think so.

 

I believe you improve your chances of finding someone good if you intiate as well as accept/reject offers. If you only sit back and say yes/no: Your options are limited to those who have chosen you first.

 

I do agree though that a man (or woman) will take the time to call, show interest actively, and find a way if they really want to be with you.

 

That's what I do when I like someone. And when I'm busy or don't want to see them every day: I tell them that. I can like someone without constantly catering to them, too, or seeing them very often.

[DN]

Life goes on i guess. Just shows he wasn't that into me.

Unless he was shy or you gave him the impression that you were not into him.

 

The error in this way of thinking is that there seems to be an assumption that all guys are confident and assured and have no problem making the first move. thereforeeee, if they do not make the first move they must not be interested.

 

But if you care to browse this forum for a while you will find countless threads from guys agonising over whether a woman likes him and if she does how to ask her out. How to overcome the fear of rejection, and if he will make the approach in the right way.

 

It seems to me that women who expect men to make the first move and do the pursuing are a) making a fundamental error and have little understanding of the difficulties many men face in approaching women and/or b) are refusing to make the first move for exactly the same reasons but are retreating behind old-fashioned ways of doing things as an excuse not to take the same risk they expect men to take.

 

That is why it is sexist - because they are not stepping up to the plate in the same way they expect men to do and also because they seem to hold those men who do have difficulties in a contempt that they are not prepared to accept for themselves.

 

More importantly, many people are either lonely or in unhappy or unfulfilling relationships because they had to settle for whoever approached them rather than taking the risk of approaching someone who may well have been a perfect partner.

[Hope75]

Maybe I am way off here but seeing as it's 2006 and I am a self sufficient women, if I were interested in a guy I would approach him myself. In fact, I've done this in the past with very good results.

 

Why should I expect a guy to approach me, if I myself am unwilling to approach him?

[friscodj]

Relationships work both ways. What are you doing for him? What are you showing him? It shouldn't be all about one person receiving in the relationship, it's about give and take. What you should be focusing on is if you guys work well together and want the same things from a relationship.

[Miss M]

Most of my life, lots of guys have approached me first, even to the point that I wished a few of them didn't. I'm painfully shy, and very terrified of rejection, but there have been quite a few times along the way when I saw a guy I liked, and didn't have a clue whether he also liked me... and I didn't even stop to think about who should make the first move. It didn't matter to me if he thought I was being too forward, or whether he would judge me negatively for making the first move. I guess I saw what I wanted, and even though I was a nervous wreck, I just went after it. One of those was the first guy I ever fell in love with at 17-years old. Others were less serious. And some others said "no thanks." (One who said "no" even told me I was very stuck on myself to think he could be interested in me. yikes! ) And a very recent one said "yes" but didn't follow up... (hmm, did I scare him?

 

Maybe I have ruined my chances by making the first move, but I've never worried about that, because if a guy would bypass me solely based on the fact that I approached him first, and/or if I didn't have enough appeal and charm to cause him to discard that notion that he should ask first... well, obviously he wasn't the right guy for me anyway.

 

But yeah, all that stuff teacup wrote, (except the "sit back and say yes or no" part) I think that works both ways. If either person isn't respecting the other in the most basic ways, then it's time to move on.

[Budman]

^miss M said it very eloquently. I agree completely!

[Derge]

To be honest id love to just sit back and have women coming over saying "go out with me" or whatever, if he has to prove himself to you why dont you go and ask a guy out it may be harder than you think. Ive probably "crushed" on about 4 girls real time I could and cant ask them out im all like im going to do this and that but nothing comes of it. Im not a coward ill fight anything if its a worthy cause and ill get involved to break up situations but its something different I cant explain. It really gets me down I think that im fundamentaly flawed somehow I can talk to girls but can never bring that up.

Prove himself well just because I dont say anything doesnt mean im not thinking about how to approach them most of the time and thinking of when ive left it to late of there boyfriends who have just came on to the scene and whisked them away.

It makes me think of the animal kingdom were "lesser" males never get it easy though. as far as im concerned theres nothing wrong about me apart from I cant say what im thinking. To be honest I do care about what my mates think if I get regected. Im not sexist but Women have got equal rights and in my book means times of chivalry are in the past i DO open doors for girls but if they want equal rights they can kiss there asses good bye to that.

 

just ended on a joke. dont complain im not sexist my mum was a female.

[Miss M]

In teacup's defense, I'd say she's just trying to sort it out because she's gotten severely burned by some horrible losers. She's just now trying her best to figure how to rethink the relationship dynamics so she doesn't keep ending up in bad situations. I doubt she's advocating that women should mistreat any guys, and she's not trying to be unfair in the relationship. She's just trying to figure out how she can tell what are the signs when a guy will respect her in the long-term.

 

I've also been emotionally abused, and that means I missed the clues that the guy wasn't going to treat me well. When we've been abused, it means our radar has been badly skewed, feeding us the wrong information. So we end up misreading the clues. We see red flags and don't heed them. And when we see something good we might even run away from them. Teacup's been posting here for a long while just trying to get a better understanding of what she could do differently so she won't get hurt again.

[annie24]

 

Basically what you are saying is pretty much common sense. Would you go after someone who werent these things? If so then its pretty foolish. I think this advice has been written its caled "He's Just Not That into You."

 

I agree with miss M. I think teacup is just trying to sort out her feelings about who is acceptable to date and who isn't.

 

Oh elektra, I wish it was common sense, but for me it wasn't. I'm still struggling with this myself. I have a hard time figuring out when a guy is being a jerk or uninterested and when to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[itsallgrand]

I agree with your last post, Miss M. Teacup is learning how to cull out the losers and users from the decent folk. I think it's great. And she has mentioned, too, that she is not looking for a relationship right now. She's working on herself.

So kudos for that move, Tea. You're doing good.

[Beyondthesea]

It may sound sexist, but the relationships where I have really pursued the man first have never worked out. The relationship where I have 'allowed myself to be pursued' and didn't show as much interest (although I was very interested) is the one that is working out the best for me!

[renaissancewoman101]

Sometimes, it is VERY hard not to show interest to a guy and play it cool, esp when you are VERY interested in the guy. In many ways, dating is like a game and we have to let the guy be the aggressor and the initiator. How do people sit back and just let the guy do the chasing and the initiating, esp in the beginning of the relationship. If I am really into someone, I find it very difficult to be able to just sit back and let the guy intiate the meetings, or to just show miminal interest and let the guy be the aggressor. How do people pull it off so smoothly?

[Derge]

I just want to know that, I know jerks (there not jerks cause there good with women there jerks cause they mistret them) who have gone through hundreds of girls and I havent had 1. I know there not property but proving myself It hurts enough but im deff not a jerk cause i cant talk to girls.

 

What id do is id get chatting to them watch how they are with friends and other people. ask other people if they ussually act like this if thye dont they probably like you. I hate being shy but when I like a girl its tearing me apart cause I cant talk to them and I get steamrolled by other guys cause I have no spine and I think the only things im scared in life are someone not liking me, and myself never getting a relationship with a nice girl.

Im probably a hypocrit im not sexist and I know what you meant but a girl ive liked for over a year has got a boyfriend cause I waiting so damn long and its got to me tonight. This time hell will have frozen over before I give up on her. The day when they break up Im asking her out yes or no. the only outcomes. The only time I havent resented a boyfriend of a crush is when I acctually got on with him and knew he was a decent bloke who was abit like me. To be honest im pathetic going on about girls on an internet website talkinbg about never giving up. By hell I know now although I dont want to think about it that the only relationship ill ever have is when im 25 really desperate and me and a girl who I dont fance and she doesnt fance me just fall together and give up.

 

If I had the chance tonight for the first time ever id rather be someone else but me. And to top it all ive just written the most depressing, craply spelled, crap punctuation, pathetically long drivel in the world. but its as honest as id ever been. The only times ive been kissed by a girl was when I was around 10 and when someone was getting back at there boyfriend by just walking over and kissing me. * * *.

[Daddy Bear]

i can't even identify the "first move" in my new relationship. we just sort of fell against each other. at any rate, love is not a game of "chicken"--a liberated woman should feel free to say and do whatever she wants, even if what she wants is a passive role as teacup is suggesting.

 

i just don't see why it should be on the man to always be the proactive partner, whether in bed, at a restaurant or anywhere else. this is real life in the 21st century, not "Leave It To Beaver".

[renaissancewoman101]

Slightlybent, I have learned in the past that if I tend to do the initiating, in terms of asking out, showing interest, initiating activities, the guy loses interest and the whole thing blows up in my face. The sad thing is when I DONT initiate anything, I tend to get looked over and not even noticed . So, with me it is a double-edged sword. If I initiate, it blows up in my face and if I DONT intiate, I dont get anything.

 

As is my poor, lonely life.

[Daddy Bear]

RW, i know there are guys who are threatened by a woman who initiates. some of us, though, wouldn't want to live in a world where people were assigned their roles merely according to gender.

[Scout]

I'm not sure how Teacup's original post got interpreted into who makes the first move, but that seems way off from what I think she meant.

 

Teacup, I am assuming that you are asking if you should really withold judgement on how sincere and reliable a guy is before you let yourself fall for him? If so, I definitely say "yes"! Guys that have insincere intentions (and gals, too), typically show their true colors very early on.

 

If by any chance you were wondering if you should ever approach a guy FIRST to let him know you're interested, I say, why not? It's certainly worked for me in the past (although I've been shot down, too...so gotta be prepared for that...but if you really sense someone would be interested in you, but a little too shy to make the first move, by all means go for it).

[friscodj]

i just don't see why it should be on the man to always be the proactive partner, whether in bed, at a restaurant or anywhere else. this is real life in the 21st century, not "Leave It To Beaver".

 

Copy that. A deep, lasting, and true connection and fulfilling relationship will overcome who does what first and all the other "moves" guys and girls try to figure out.

[teacup]

I'm not sure how Teacup's original post got interpreted into who makes the first move, but that seems way off from what I think she meant.

 

Teacup, I am assuming that you are asking if you should really withold judgement on how sincere and reliable a guy is before you let yourself fall for him? If so, I definitely say "yes"! Guys that have insincere intentions (and gals, too), typically show their true colors very early on.

 

 

yes that is part of it. but also i think men VALUE what's harder to get than something that is easier for them. sure, i think men would love/like it if a girl just approached them and took initiative. it makes it easy for them, and it doesn't always ruin the girls chances if the guy were interested in the first place. but the guy's not going to VALUE her as much. i think that's human nature. men like to chase. they like to pursue. and i can't imagine that men are still shy to chase at my age! if u give them a merry chase and make it harder......they will value u more cuz it took them a lot of work and they will remember that in the back of their tiny little brains. (tee hee, joke!)

 

for the record, i have no problem with... getting out my club, clubbing a man over the head and dragging him home with me. by his hair too. i know, im a barbarian. but men dont scare me. i have lots more trouble with women. i cant believe im one of those girls.

 

and no, im not looking, im trying to sort out my thoughts and get a good perspective. i dont want to jump into any more boiling pots of water, never again. im not a lobster!!

[Budman]

Personally, if I like the woman, and find her attractive personality and looks. Easier the better. Less games more honesty and I'm happy.

 

I am not exactly "normal" though...

[renaissancewoman101]

Teacup, I wish I could be like you and just go out and "club" a guy and drag him home with me. I tend to be the one who is always alone on a weekend night. I have no life. I am sitting in front of the computer in my apt. waiting for my best friend to be done going to Sea World with his bf and the bf's sister. My luck, I get to sit home waiting for two gay guys . At least I am getting a meal out of this. Then I have to drive back up to LA late tonight or tomorrow morning because I drove my dad's car down.

 

I do agree with you though about men VALUING what's harder to get, than what is easier. That is why you have a bunch on people on here and in fashion mags, advocating playing hard to get to keep a guy's interest on high, or just TO get the guy interested in you.

[teacup]

hmm, im not saying play games. im saying, pull back and observe what he does. i dont trust men.

[Budman]

hmm, im not saying play games. im saying, pull back and observe what he does. i dont trust men.

 

Lol I hear that.

 

Can completely understand where that comes from...