tylercdurden2004 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 So you are saying you play games at the beginning of the relationship? I think the whole point of what the guys were saying was at the beginning of teh relationship. Now when does the beginning officailly end? No clear answer on that I imagine. But if a girl feels she is past the beginning point and the guy doesnt, maybe a few problems but then thats when the girl should say "hey idiot stop messing around, am I the one you want etc." Or alternatively she starts to walk away. These principles are the same for everyone. Again these rules you speak of I have only heard being referred to in the meeting stage and I have not heard them being talked about in the context of sex exclusively. Its all about finding the "one". Which I must say a lot of people dont do out of lack of confidence. My best friend is one of these "settlers". He has no confidence and does not talk to girls very often when he does I can hear his pitch change up and he tries to please them by not saying anything that might be deemed offensive. He waits for them to show interest and never attempts to challenge them out of fear they might leave, first meeting or 2 years into it. he ahs never had a good relationship with a solid confident woman. I personally have disliked all his GFs and I wouldnt date any of them. He is now with a girl and I know it will end and badly. Maybe 2 weeks from now, maybe 2 years, mayeb 2 decades. My only hope is that it doesnt involve kids. Its a terrible situation to never challenge a potential partner, how can you ever know how they really are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract_Witch Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Who poisoned this thread? Honestly, stereotypes go both ways, as some_guy282 suggested. It is unfair to deny we are all victims of prejudice somewhere along the way; it is a human instinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexychiick16 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 ya i like a bad boy to a certain extent, only as long as i know the real him and he is respectful!! you are right tho...a lot of guys are cocky these days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurupa Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 A very interesting post to say the least. Polka did brought up some good points in the "bad" (I get to why I put it in quotes later) advice men give men. I think part of the reason why men do this is to show off their knowledge of women and their machoness/manlyness to other guys. But to many guys actually take up the advice and use it and there is a high enough percentage that find the adivce to work and thereforeeee tell other guys and the "bad" adivce contuines. So girls like Polka get pissed off over it. But what is the interesting part with the "bad" advice that there are parts of it that do work on girls. For example, embarrassing the girl. I have done it loads of time to girls that I flirt with and with friends and girls I know. Its more of a matter how and when it is done that it doesn't insult the girl beyond the fact that she got embarrassed. On the controling part of the advice, I think was what really ment was to show that you [the guy] is confindent and can take charge (as in taking the girl by surprise) than actually telling the girl to do this, do that etc. The cocky part I think iis basically useless for the most part, but I do see loads of girls go for it tho. I actually think that there a lot more guys with "bad" advice than you may think. The reason I say this is that where I live I see the "bad" advice in work all the time. I usually laugh when I see guys use it becuase I find it funny that they can't come up with a better why to get a girl that fits their personality and who they are, they have to use a model set by and used by other guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntiLove_SuperStar Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 I really should read more of these posts...I can't say I've noticed a lot of postings where people tell guys they should be so dominate/cocky or whatever. Either way...they shouldnt. Im all for equality in relationships, and in reality, the most dominant partner role shifts and changes in relationships anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 I think cocky might be the wrong word. Its easily taken outta context. Maybe inserting "Cheeky" (you brits and irish will know this well) for cocky is a better way to explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShySoul Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 People make things so much harder then they ever have to be. Bottom line: People want to be treated with respect. You want a good relationship, respect one another. Manipulation is the opposite of respect. Bottom line: Relationships are about love. How can you ever fully embrace the love that is there if you are always thinking about who has the power in the relationship? Bottom line: Life will throw enough problems and issues at us as it is. Why create ones that aren't even necessary? Bottom line: Many problems that break up relationships come from overthinking and feeling that there has to be a problem, has to be something wrong or to fight about. People are afraid that things can actually be good and work out. Don't do that. Take the relationship as it is and don't stress over small stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Again it all comes down to confidence, and thats the real bottom line. Pretty much every thread that asks what people find attractive either mentions confidence or confidence related attributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dako Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 If you look confident, you are confident. At least I think so. Isn't that true? I dunno... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 If you look confident, you are confident. At least I think so. Isn't that true? I dunno... Agreed! Maybe we could say if you look good you are good. Only a matter of time before Pamela Anderson reaches sainthood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin T Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Well I don't know about the last comment, but I agree with the idea that if you appear confident, then you appear attractive. I've recently tried this... and it works. Girls like a guy who can carry on a decent conversation without being anxious or timid. They see a guy like that as being safe; a man's man. In others, someone who is confident in his masculinity, but doesn't overdo it by trying to hard. He is who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Well I don't know about the last comment, but I agree with the idea that if you appear confident, then you appear attractive. I've recently tried this... and it works. Girls like a guy who can carry on a decent conversation without being anxious or timid. They see a guy like that as being safe; a man's man. In others, someone who is confident in his masculinity, but doesn't overdo it by trying to hard. He is who he is. Sorry just removing my tongue from my cheek. I think your having some great insights. Its all about having fun while you do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin T Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Well of course, it's important to be relaxed and have a good time while you're doing it. Girls like someone who is down-to-earth and can make them laugh. The wet blanket/sour puss that is always brooding about is no fun to be around, hence girls avoid him. I know; I've been in both situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 I know; I've been in both situations. The secret is we all have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin T Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 True, the butterfly must first be a caterpillar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnatic Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Hello. I made a post a few days ago that was deleted... possibly because I agreed with someone who criticised a certain someone else... anyway, that was only at the start of my post... I believe the rest of my post was relevant and non-controversial. So here it is again. sorry about this, I don't think the topic has moved on so far this isn't still relevant. 'I think the thread has been a very good one so far though. I agree with what tylerdurden said about some advice being taken out of context (or in some cases, in my opinion, overstepping the mark a little), and I think this is actually a major issue in 'nice-guy syndrome' like as I said before where many nice-guys are led to believe they ever have to be a jerk or they can't be confident. I remember a discussion I had on a thread I posted once about how to actually make sometime of a proactive move towards getting a phone number or something when I'm talking/flirting with a girl. Diggitydog posted some valid advice referring to a mate of his who was a jerk, but had confidence... because of the way the world is, maybe Diggity's mate was the only person he knew with the confidence we could use as an example... and he was a jerk, Diggity certainly wasn't saying 'be like the jerk' and he pointed this out when challenged, but that's certainly the way people took it, with people saying 'how can you hold this guy up as an example'. The point was, in many cases the jerks have something the nice guy doesn't, confidence, that is why we always see the jerks with the girls.. we aren't to know they can never keep th girl long term the nice guy with 'nice-guy syndrome' just assumes that you have to be a jerk to get the girl, and if he doesn't like the idea of that he will often respond by not allowing himself to be confident. If the nice guy could have this confidence though, the jerk wouldn't stand much of a chance, he'd be limited to those girls who are attracted to 'jerks' and he wouldn't like it. Problem is, whenever someone posts something advising guys to be confident (I'll admit sometimes they say one or two things that overstep the mark, or unintentionaly use words like dominate when they don't really mean the guy has to control the girl) everyone takes is as advice that you have to be a jerk and immediately respond by saying it is bad advice and advising people to ignore it. So, like I ended my last post... it is possible to be confident, outgoing and independent but still a nice guy.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamGuy Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Here is what I feel is a very realistic problem concerning men of this generation. It is called the Nice Guy Paradigm, by one Dr. Glover. It goes as follows: The Nice Guy Way of thinking: "If I can hide my flaws and become what I think others want me to be then I will be loved, get my needs met and have a problem free life." many of you woman claim you WANT a nice guy, and not an overconfident jerk. I think its great for a guy to be nice, and not over the top. However, many men, (including myself in the past) are conditioned to think as long as we please are partner, and hide our flaws and be perfect, then our partner wont leave us. Nice guys often only worry about other peoples needs, and ignore their own. Infact, 9 times out of 10, the only way they are happy is if their partner is happy. THey fear that if they cannot "fix" the problem with their partner, she will abandon them. The trick for men is not to be an overconfident * * * * *, but to be confident with themselves, and realize they are a worthy catch for any woman. Dont apologize for who you are, and make no excuses. You arent perfect, but niether is she. Accept who you are, and stop trying to seek approval from women. Only seek approval from yourself. The enables you to create an INTIMATE relationship with your partner, having that she will know EVERYTHING about you, you flaws and your weaknesses as well as your strengths. There will be no reason to walk "on egg shells" anymore. And woman will generally respect and appreciate you more knowing all the bad with the good, and basicalyl just having that TRUE intimacy that wouldn't exist if a Nice Guy were to try and HIDE all of his flaws and mistakes instead of just being who he is. It works, trust me,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnelianButterfly Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 So in turn then by expecting women to accept you for who you are, you should accept women for who they are. That means seeing us as people and not some goal for your little confidence boosters and mental kicks. Why don't you try explaining what happens after you get the woman, how do you maintain that relationship? Confidence isn't going to take you all the way. You need to understand compromise, communication and the fact that your partner is an individual with there own ideals, goals, and dreams that they have every right to peruse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShySoul Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Men, be yourself. Women, be yourself. If you are compatible, it will go well. The problem is when we think that some attitude is going to get us success. Being a nice guy doesn't get women. Being a bad boy doesn't get women. Being yourself does. It just happens that girls want to be treated with respect, which nice guys are more likely to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamGuy Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 So in turn then by expecting women to accept you for who you are, you should accept women for who they are. That means seeing us as people and not some goal for your little confidence boosters and mental kicks. Why don't you try explaining what happens after you get the woman, how do you maintain that relationship? Confidence isn't going to take you all the way. You need to understand compromise, communication and the fact that your partner is an individual with there own ideals, goals, and dreams that they have every right to peruse. I never said confidence will take you all the way. What i said was be confident with WHO YOU ARE. I do accept women for who they are. They are very confused beings (as are men). the point is for neither partner to PANDER to the other. I totally agree that men should NOT see woman as their GOAL, their PREY, if you will. HOWEVER, Men are PC'ed to death. The consequences of almost 50 years of ardent feminism have been devastating: a society in bewilderment about gender roles, the rise of a class of ball-busting femaleswhose battle cry is, "We don't need men," trumped-up charges of "date rape" and "sexual harassment," angry women blaming men for all their problems -- in short, an overall erosion of male confidence. As society becomes more and more feminized, the world kinda preaches to boys to surrender their natural masculinity and pander to women, today's man is forced to apologize for -- and feel shame about -- his inherent male sexuality. THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG. And the truth is, despite what women say and how much they protest, they want a man who acts like a man. Scratch the surface and you'll find that deep down they don't really want a man to act like a woman any more than a guy wants a woman to be masculine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnelianButterfly Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 It just happens that girls want to be treated with respect, which nice guys are more likely to do. Thank you so much Shy. That is the truth of the matter. For all the confidence speak, little has actually been said about respecting the women you're so fixated with coercing into going out with you. Respect is a large part of confidence, for all your self confidence it means nothing if the woman has no respect for you. One of the best ways to get the respect of others is to treat them how you would be treated. That doesn't make you a doormat, it makes you considerate, most women would rather have a considerate man than a guy that feels he's the most important thing in the relationship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnelianButterfly Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 For one thing women's suffrage started over a hundred years ago and for another women don't need men. We don't need providers, we don't need chaperons, we are very capable of caring for ourselves. If you feel date rape and sexual harassment by men, is not their fault, then who's it, it isn't the woman's, no woman will ask to be raped (no is no and it is rape even if you buy dinner) and no woman asks to be verbally abused and treated like little more than a walking baby mill. Why is it so horrible for society to finally embrace half the the population of the planet? And why is it for all the feminiztion of our society that women, who have always been forced to feel guilt for sexuality, must now continue to be repressed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayKay Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Huh, I would be intrigued to know what to you is a "trumped up" charge of Date Rape or Sexual Harassment. Both are VERY real, and I have not known ANY women to take such charges lightly. In fact I STILL see girls and women questioning on here whether they have the right to be angry when they have been sexually assaulted - they are STILL afraid to go to the authorities. Sorry, but a woman has every damned right to say no, and I don't care about semantics like "there was no penetration" - it is still a violation of her body, and her right to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 now date rape and sexual harassment charges are "trumped up" Think he meant some. Could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnatic Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 This is exactly what I was talking about... all Camguy did was say, effectively to be yourself and treat yourself with as much respect as you treat your partner... but because he was coming from a standpoint that advocated confidence CG and Shysoul immediately jump on him and argue that you should be yourself and treat women with respect and confidence won't take you all the way. If you'd actually taken the time to read Camguy's pot you'd see he wan't even saying anything you disagree with. This is what i meant by 'Nice Guy Syndrome' (hadn't heard of Dr Glover so I had given it a different definition), when you see words like 'confident' and 'assertive' and assume the guy is promoting a male dominated world and encouraging other guys to be jerks... you even seem to accuse him of stating that 'date rape and sexual harassment by men, is not their fault', and I'm sorry CG that you had to go through something terrible but nowhere did CamGuy try to defend rapists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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