CamGuy Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I hate that Dave Deangelo guy. I read some of his stuff. What a crock. [The above was merely the above poster's opinion and does not necessarily reflect or endorse the views of Enotalone or Enotalone staff and message board members.] HEHE, i love controlling women. lol. J/k. It isnt about CONTROLING her every move and decision. For me it is about control in the relationship. Taking the lead. It's kinda like dancing. I like to lead ,not to follow. Not about mind control or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin T Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 But if she's involved in the relationship, doesn't she deserve to have equal say on its direction? That's like her saying, "I don't want to see you" yet you still continue seeing her anyway? Doesn't work that way. Nor does it work that way with sex. Taken to the extreme, that would constitute rape. Oddly, most men who rape women do so as a means of 'control.' It gives them 'power.' Something to think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 But if she's involved in the relationship, doesn't she deserve to have equal say on its direction? That's like her saying, "I don't want to see you" yet you still continue seeing her anyway? Doesn't work that way. Nor does it work that way with sex. Taken to the extreme, that would constitute rape. Oddly, most men who rape women do so as a means of 'control.' It gives them 'power.' Something to think about it. A little confused as to what this means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamGuy Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 But if she's involved in the relationship, doesn't she deserve to have equal say on its direction? That's like her saying, "I don't want to see you" yet you still continue seeing her anyway? Doesn't work that way. Nor does it work that way with sex. Taken to the extreme, that would constitute rape. Oddly, most men who rape women do so as a means of 'control.' It gives them 'power.' Something to think about it. She IS involved in the relationship. I am not talking about RAPE. Sure I think its perfectly normal and fine for women to have an equal say in where the relationship is headed. I mean, thats how these works. If i want to get married, and she wants to screw the lawn boy, then of course, I consider what she says, and I end it. However, being strong and in "control" per se in a relationship is different than DOMINATING your partner. I like to take the lead. Plain and simple....doesnt mean her opinion is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnelianButterfly Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Why does anyone have to control the relationship? Why not just enjoy each others company and be happy with the person for who they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShySoul Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Why does anyone have to control the relationship? Why not just enjoy each others company and be happy with the person for who they are? CB, I can always count on you to give the words of wisdom in a post. polka, Something else to consider is that people have a tendency to flock behind whoever has the biggest voice and grabs their attention because it is easy. The people who create websites on how to manipulate women (and there are far too many) are bascially con men out to make money off of easily manipulated guys. Think about it. If there job is to manipulate guys, they advise what they know, how to manipulate. They themselves admit it is all about getting "laid." They have disclaimers saying its purely entertainment and no one should listen to them. They pull out every trick they can just to sprout off their ideas that lead them to being unhappy and leads anyone who listens to be unhappy. These people always feel a need to be on the defensive and control everything. They can't stand that a guy could actually be nice and have more success with women, so they have to put him down and convince the guy to chance his ways. These guys will go as far as to give detailed instructions about how everything the guys does is wrong and tell them what they should be doing instead. I have been taking the same stance as you for over a year. I have experienced all kinds of sucess with women over the past year. And I have done it all by being the "nice guy." I have done the opposite of what any dating site will tell you or what most of these guys who say manipulate recommend. I've had to endure a constant barrage of criticisms and people telling me I don't know what I am doing, despite the success being right there in front of them. To these guys, they don't really care about finding a girl. They just care about their own sense of being a "man." They just want to maintain a sense of power and control over their life. So they have to be the one in charge. They are afraid of getting hurt, afraid of opening themselves up. So they manipulate. But in the end, they just end up lonely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Why does anyone have to control the relationship? Why not just enjoy each others company and be happy with the person for who they are? Maybe this is the wrong analogy but life is like a road trip and long one (think they use this analogy in movies but I never really watch them so..). Someone needs to drive and I would suggest it would get a tad frustrating if the same person drove everyday, but never the less someone needs to be in control of the vehicle (relationship) at some point or another. When it comes to taking care of an issues such as filling up the gas I have always found the best way is to as often as possible have one person paying for the gas while the other fills it up. Now imagine a road trip where either you or your road trip buddy did all the driving, paid for all the gas and filled up all the time, ran into the store to get beers candy or whatever all the time, cleaned the car all the time, changed the oil all the time etc. Do you think that would be a fun road trip with out any serious issues? Do you think the person doing all the work would want to do it again? I guess realtionships take effort on both parts and yeah someone needs to be driving it at some point. Just my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PocoDiablo Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 'Women like to be controlled.' Right. What a load. You know, maybe some guys are buying that crock, but most of us are far too smart for that. I think women want to be with a guy who has self-control and can make decisions. It's not what David DeAngelo preaches. His stuff has some merit for beginning guys, but quickly goes to the point where using it in a quality long term relationship will blow up in your face. It's really designed to pick up women on the short term, and that's just not going to help anyone over time. What good is it if you can pick up a great woman ... and then not keep her because you're a jacka** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnatic Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 where did my post go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnelianButterfly Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Thats pretty much what I mean by anyone, neither individual takes all of the responsibility, there are two people to a relationship, no one should be decidedly in control. It should be shared and equal. But I don't think you need to drive a relationship, you should let things come naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonelyinasmalltown Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Very often men who say that have been nice and have been rejected by women in favour of guys that do appear to be jerks. I can't find the thread but there was one a long time ago from a guy who approached a woman at a club and was humiliatingly rejected by a woman for the amusement of her friends. A lot of men responded that similar things had happened to them. So - one of the reasons some men sometimes talk about not being a nice guy is because when they were they were burned by not very nice women. I don't think that was one that I posted, but I can definitely say that's happened to me. Part of the reason I stopped going to the bars. EVERYBODY is different. Personally I don't use a set of rules for when it comes to women. I just talk to them, be honest with them, be myself and don't hide my feelings. If I get regected then it's thier loss. If I don't then there really is a potential for something special there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamGuy Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 THis may be hard to fathom for some of you, but in any SUCCESSFUL relationship, I can almost gurantee there is one person who is stronger than the other. Call it an Alpha, call it the Leader, Call it the person in control the most, call it whatever you want. But some relationships fail because no one takes the lead. OR, no one wants to give up the lead. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayKay Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 THis may be hard to fathom for some of you, but in any SUCCESSFUL relationship, I can almost gurantee there is one person who is stronger than the other. Call it an Alpha, call it the Leader, Call it the person in control the most, call it whatever you want. But some relationships fail because no one takes the lead. OR, no one wants to give up the lead. It happens. Um, guess that depends what you consider "successful"? And what's considered a "stronger" person in the relationship? My relationship is a partnership, we have our own balance which fluctuates according to well, life, where one of us may be "giving" more at one time over another or needing more then at other times, but it balances out. But we don't play "who's on top". Some couples do, some also have dominant/submissive roles, but that does not mean those relationships shall be successful, but nor does it mean those whom DON'T have an "alpha partner" won't be successful either. It's about finding what works for YOU as a couple, and that is not what works for someone else. almost gu(a)rantee An "almost guarantee". That's about as good as a "guess" or a "maybe". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dako Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Raykay, During my my marriage, roles and levels of control changed often. When one of us worked long hours, the other became a caretaker and so on. Each one of us would fill whatever role was needed at any time. Being flexible and resourceful without keeping score is vital in a longterm relationship. We called it tag-teaming, and we still do it to some degree to cope with dissolving our marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayKay Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Raykay, During my my marriage, roles and levels of control changed often. When one of us worked long hours, the other became a caretaker and so on. Each one of us would fill whatever role was needed at any time. Being flexible and resourceful without keeping score is vital in a longterm relationship. We called it tag-teaming, and we still do it to some degree to cope with dissolving our marriage. Yup, that was what I was trying to get at actually Dako - what I define as 'balancing' - though you said it much better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 According to Webster, asinine is "marked by inexcusable failure to exercise intelligence or sound judgment". That's a fairly harsh description of somebody's opinion - even disrespectful some might argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzureSkyes69 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I think it is horrible when both men and woman have to pretend to be someone their not just to gain attention.I do like somone who can be a bad a** for time to time but not to the point where it would hurt,humiliate,or injure another person.Someone should not have to have complete control over another human being either ..it just isn't right.A relationship should be a partnership---together. men or woman should not have to think they need t behave a certain way to get a person to notice them.they are better off being themselves they will go further that way ,with anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Thats pretty much what I mean by anyone, neither individual takes all of the responsibility, there are two people to a relationship, no one should be decidedly in control. It should be shared and equal. But I don't think you need to drive a relationship, you should let things come naturally. That was the whole point of my analogy that in order for the road trip of life to be successful,enjoyable etc there needs to be sharing of responsibility duties resources etc. There also needs to be somewhat of a clear direction as to where its going at points, at least part of the time. You may say to each other "lets just hop in the car and see where we go", but at some point you will decide "lets go to (insert favorite city)" and you both agree that this is a great idea. Then you decide the best route to take. Youve now made a decision and are "driving the car" to a specific destination. "Letting things come naturally" is called fate. I have yet to meet anyone who lives completely by fate. I mean if you do then you dont make any decisions, choices etc because they dont matter, fate will always dictate the outcome. Now i dont know what engineering you are studying but lets take civil engineering as an example. If a bridge is to be built oveer a river how would it work out if it was left to fate? If someone said "oh we'll just put this pylon here, it doesnt matter if where it placed cause if the bridge is going to fall its going to fall, we'll just let nature do its thing and decide for us". How many of your professors have said guys "all these equations dont really matter cause as an engineer you just let things come naturally"? I suspect not and I suspect when an engineering project is in the works there is at all points someone who is leading the project. Taking all ideas and input and based on their expertise makes the best possible decision with the data available. Doent mean they dont consider others just means that they have the expertise to make the "best" decision (at least hopefully). This is kinda like a relationship, someone has to be in "control" of where its going at all times. Doesnt matter who it is or when, but someone. I like Raykays thoughts about switching off or trading off. I think thats very true and thats very healthy to have two people who can use their strengths in certain situations to be the leader. Thats true equality. Nobody can be the best at everything because then the point of being in a relationship is pointless. Both(or more if you are so inclined) parties have to bring different strengths to the table. Its the very essense of TEAMS, people with different backgrounds, strengths etc coming together to make a unified unit that is stronger than the part (people) would be on their own. Its called SYNERGY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dako Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Your automotive and construction analogies are sound, but I can only compare it to my own failed marriage. The big plan and goals all varied immensely, changing our course in unforeseen ways. Our goals changed week by week and we had various careers, interests and personal relationships with people that took us all over the place. What we wanted in the beginning changed as we became different people. I was a drug using biker, she was a Sunday school teacher and college student. Today we're completely different because of the experiences we had over 27 years. In a marriage the bridges and roads never seem to be in the right place when you need them. It's a dynamic that challenges. In my case, a bit too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Your automotive and construction .... LOL Dako you're such a man. i love how you translated road trip and engineering into the above! I would probably use those terms myself if I was talking exclusively to guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dako Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 LOL Hey, I've been a mechanic and worked construction. I make similar analogies to describe things when talking to guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I can only hears the grunt that Tim taylor used to do on that show Home Improvement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnelianButterfly Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 How many of your professors have said guys "all these equations don't really matter cause as an engineer you just let things come naturally"? Well... thats one of the things we learn right off the bat. For all our equations and careful planning things still fail because of nature. Nothing humanity has ever designed and tried to fabricate will ever be perfect. We learn about things called safety factors. Where you anticipate the failure and protect against by over designing. (BTW I'm an astronautical engr) You are right, some direction is needed, but you need to be flexible enough that when someone needs a rest stop you don't just tell them to hold it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylercdurden2004 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Well... thats one of the things we learn right off the bat. For all our equations and careful planning things still fail because of nature. Nothing humanity has ever designed and tried to fabricate will ever be perfect. We learn about things called safety factors. Where you anticipate the failure and protect against by over designing. (BTW I'm an astronautical engr) You are right, some direction is needed, but you need to be flexible enough that when someone needs a rest stop you don't just tell them to hold it. I like that. Just wonder why you were so defensive in the beginning? PS If your gonna leave it up to nature you can bet I wont be flying any of your rockets any time soon. Maybe I'll just surf one, like AIR says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnelianButterfly Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I like that. Just wonder why you were so defensive in the beginning? PS If your gonna leave it up to nature you can bet I wont be flying any of your rockets any time soon. Maybe I'll just surf one, like AIR says. I don't do rockets, I do Earth-Moon transits using natural solutions to the multi-body dynamics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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