In Response to Seeing Porn Through Someone Else's Eyes

[WildChild]

I have been enlightened by this post, and as some of you may know the majority of the threads I have started have been based on this exact issue. I am tossed on many of the responses and actually feel hypocritical because I can see and agree to many of the opinions you have all shared.

 

I don't know necessarily if porn is right or wrong. I think it strongly depends on the people within the relationship. I think in situations like mine, I feel secure about myself until I see what it actually is that my bf views while watching porn, much younger women than both he and I. I try to examine if my insecurity is because my ex had an affair with "woman" who was 19 when they met? I was 31 and he was 36. I know there are areas I could improve on body wise, but am in no way overweight. I have had two children C-section (and two miscarriages) so my body has had it's ups and downs. I have suffered from bulimia (unbeknownst to my current bf) because of constant watchful eyes of my parents and me and my sister's weight and food intake. I know I don't fit into the body image that my current bf would desire. But then I question, if I actually did weigh what he secretly (and sometimes not secretly desired) would I be still be in the same situation as I am now. Would me weighing 120 cure the fixation he seems to have. Or would there be some other criteria I "would have to meet." I know that he is with me for who I am as a person, but what if he met someone like me who had the body he looks at while viewing porn? We are all responsible for our own thoughts, but if a person is constantly reminded of who you aren't no one here can say you wouldn't start questioning "What is wrong with me?!"

 

However the glich is that prior to this relationship I had a certain mindset of sexuality within my relationship with my exhusband. I wasn't one to explore much even though he wanted to. I don't know why. I find myself in my current relationship wanting to explore, experiment and try new things. I have found myself more sexual with him and I know deep down it is because he has brought that side out of me that I have been taught is taboo. Could my resentment be because I see what he watches, but yet he chooses to not find that enjoyment with me and when he does it is rare. Is it because he looks at younger women? Could it be because even if they aren't younger, their bodies are something mine is not? Or is it really nothing to do with me, but he himself. The desire to have the perfect image regardless if they are on the internet or not.

 

I know based on my discussions with him that he has about done it all. He has had droves of women but I am the second serious relationship he has had in his 38 years. In his previous relationship his gf was very skinny (due to drugs) but their sexual relationship didn't always mesh. I ask myself if he has experimented as much as he has, why does he hesitate with me but watches porn? He commented to me a few weeks back that his issue with me is my "constant" need for sex and that it has been that way since day one. I have never slept around, and any man I slept with I was dating. However with him, I slept with him the night we met. I hadn't been with anyone for a year prior to me sleeping with him but had opportunities to do so prior to me meeting him and he knows this. Is this not a double standard? His belief that my need for sex since day one is an issue, but yet he will watch internet porn any chance he gets whether I am around or not? But yet denies that he watches it and says he doesn't like it. He wants me to wear sexy lingerie but yet tells me to get dressed so the neighbors don't see me if I have on a Tshirt and panties.

 

I give you this as a recent scenerio this last Saturday night. We were going out for dinner, dancing and drinks. As always I had on sexy undergarments and had given him a sneak peek prior to getting fully clothed. While in town we stopped to pick up movies. At a spur of the moment we stepped into the adult room at the store. I had never been in one of those rooms and actually was amazed at the huge selection. I wanted to pick something out, but I didn't know what to even begin to select and because there were other men in there I didn't want to stand in there debating like I was picking out new china. He commented to me that we needed to get out of there and gave some funny comment because of arrousal. Of course that set the anticipation for us to get home. When we arrive home (keeping in mind we had come from the porn room a few hours prior) I start to seductively undress and commented maybe I should keep my long black leather boots on. You know what his comment to me was? "You're weird." Of course I become mad and basically say why bother trying, and why waste money on stuff to try to keep him appealed.

 

So there it is. I can't win for losing. I try to dress and act sexy and I am told I am weird. I try to live out fantasies and nothing happens. I dress in lingerie and I am told to get dressed. He has had sex more than god knows who, but yet I am told sex is all I think about and get it once a month if I am lucky. So I ask myself and any one of us, how would anyone of us not be confused, sad, humiliated or angry. Theories or not, scientific findings or not, it boils down to the human desire. It boils down to wanting the vixen on the screen but not in the bedroom. It boils down to me finding myself insecure about myself, and my desires to explore with him. It boils down to no matter what anyone says, you watch what you desire. It is no different than sitting down and watching movies you like. If you like comedy's that's what you watch. If you like scary movies, that is what you watch. Porn is no different.

[novaseeker]

I'm sorry to hear about how you are being treated. If your BF is using porn as a substitute for sex in real life, that's clearly a big problem.

 

I would be careful about concluding that because he watches certain things in porn, this is who he would like to be with in real life in terms of sexual desire in real life. It may be that these are the fantasies he finds exciting while he watches porn, yet in his real life relationships he wants more "normal" sex, for lack of a better word. It's risky, in my view, to conclude that because you do not physically resemble the women he is looking at in porn that he finds you physically undesirable. It's very easy to conclude that given that he appears to be using porn as a substitute for real life sex, but it's still not necessarily the case.

 

I think your BF has a serious problem if he is viewing porn a lot and yet only having sex with you once a month. He needs to get to the bottom of why he is avoiding sex in real life, and certainly cut back on the porn use (because it's likely that the porn use is playing a role in it ... it's also likely that there are other underlying causes, however, beyond the porn ... and he needs to get to the bottom of those). He needs to change behaviors and he also needs counseling to understand why he is inclined to avoid sex in real life.

[theantibarbie23]

(because it's likely that the porn use is playing a role in it ... it's also likely that there are other underlying causes, however, beyond the porn ... and he needs to get to the bottom of those)

I agree, things like porn and video game addictions are often symptoms of a bigger issue. I would also suggest you talk to him about this and see if he's willing to get therepy in order to figure out why he's avoiding sex and try and save your relationship before he destroys it with his actions.

[Dako]

Excellent and moving post, WC.

As much as we tell ourselves sex is just part of the equation, it must be daunting when it hurts.

[Ash]

I give you this as a recent scenerio this last Saturday night. We were going out for dinner, dancing and drinks. As always I had on sexy undergarments and had given him a sneak peek prior to getting fully clothed. While in town we stopped to pick up movies. At a spur of the moment we stepped into the adult room at the store.

When we arrive home (keeping in mind we had come from the porn room a few hours prior) I start to seductively undress and commented maybe I should keep my long black leather boots on.

This is beautiful and the way things should be.

"You're weird."

This is sad, unfortunate, uncaring ... but you know that and that's why you are telling us. To have done such a sexy, fun, playful thing and have it shot down isn't right and makes me sad.

 

I'm not sure if I have much that will help in this case ... again, this is not what you seek anyway. You're giving us valuable insight on the way some people see the world.

 

I am blessed with a relationship that has headed the other way. She was unsure, insecure, not aware of her own sexuality. Her self discovery has been a wonderful thing to watch, and participate in. She buys and wears lingerie for both herself and for me. She's learned in interpret my laughs when I see her as laughs of delight and pleasure in seeing my sweetheart looking as wonderful she does. And we watch porn together because we both like to (and do you have any idea of how much bad stuff there is out there!!)

 

All this to say, there is another side.

 

If porn right or wrong? I'm not sure. To me, the question is that same as, is wearing sexy underwear right or wrong? It's right for me and my honey. It's an aspect of our relationship in a way. I don't watch it to replace her, or instead of her, or in spite of her. I watch with her. And if she's not there, I always wonder if she would like it. I hope she will, and if I don't think she will, I don't enjoy watching it.

 

My darling too has a constant need for sex. It works for us. I know I won't be denied. She knows she won't be denied. If we're tired, we understand (and generally do it anyway). I always thought it wrong to want to be with my partner daily, but in meeting her I realize that sexual compatibility is more important than most would give credit for. You need it to have things work out.

 

And in my case I'm lucky and it works out that the vixen on the screen isn't half as good as the one lying beside me in bed.

 

I can understand why you are confused, humilited, angry, and likely many other things. The harmony of sexuality is out there. I don't know if you can change him, or if you should try. You certainly shouldn't have to change, and that of course really complicates things. Perhaps there are still some things to try, some things to think about. Don't give up, but don't stop being who you are. And yeah, things sometimes do work out. And you are totally correct, porn is no different than other aspects of life, there has to be a balance just like anything else.

[CarnelianButterfly]

I feel like this too, I've struggled with my weight for a long time. I've lost 50lbs, but I still have issues with my body. I'm coming to terms with the fact that I've been put done and derided so much that I don't need to change my body as much as I need to help my self-esteem. I still feel if a guy rejects my advances its because I'm not pretty or thin. I always feel like I'm being compared to standards guys have developed from their over-exposure to porn and stick figures in the media. There are even women that have their labia altered with plastic surgery so they look like the porn stars. I refuse to do that to myself, but still ask would it change anything, always having that seed of doubt. That doubt undermines any progress I thought I had made. I know there are men out there who are immune to the sway of the media glitz, but its so discouraging to have to wade through the fodder to find them.

[Ash]

I think you'll find there are a lot of men out there who aren't as swayed by the perfect body image as you might first think. Problem for a lot of us guys is: it's not acceptable to our buddies if we ever admit we find anything other than a super model attractive. I think in most cases that is simply not true. Oh sure, I bet you can find tons of guys who are after what they consider an ideal figure, but I'd bet there are more who aren't after that. Perhaps they are harder to spot because they aren't found in the same places the perfection seekers are, nor are they as forward about what they are seeking.

 

I'll start the physical attributes part by saying few things look sillier than fake breasts on a porn star, particularly when she's faking enjoying what she's doing. "Perfect" body be damned if it's not all real, and it's not doing what it should be doing.

 

"Perfect" bodies are warm, cuddly, comforting, caring, soft, supple ... you get the idea. I like a lady I can hug without feeling ribs and hip bones. Curves are wonderful and you should be happy when you have them. Or perhaps I'm just not into skinny ... but I never have been and never will be.

 

What good are surgically altered labia? I far and away prefer the type that change colour, feel warm as the blood flow increases due to being stimulated. Sorry to be a bit graphic ... but why does shape matter in that case? It doesn't to me.

 

Heavier women often have a cuter appearance. Not to say those of lesser weight don't, but I guess that's the curves bit again. Curves help give a nicer looking cleavage. One that shows some movement, as do the breasts, which is something that fake ones don't do. They look too firm. I wonder what they feel like to the person in ownership of them, do they feel natural? Are they happy with the sensations? Are they in fact sensitive at all? I don't know. I do know that women who are all natural do enjoy the feeling of being touched when appropriate.

 

There's nothing wrong with a few extra pounds on tummy, thighs, hips. Again, it's nice to get hugs from comfortable women, and hugs are underrated as it is. There should be more of them around. A good hug, in the right circumstances can turn a guy on (if that's what you're after) perhaps faster than a good image of an ideal body.

 

What IS ideal anyway? Different guys have different ideas, and there's a clue in itself that perhaps there is no ideal, and in reality doesn't matter as much as you might think. Ideal to me is a lady that's put together in such a way that all the bits and pieces match all the other bits and pieces. Weight, height, curves, colouration, hair style, hair colour, eye colour, shape of her lips, curve of her neck and shoulders ... it all fits together in a certain way that make up ideal people. There are lots and lots of beautiful people and they look completely different from one another.

 

C section scars are marks of distinction. I'm a guy, I can't have a baby. That scar on your tummy means you were there, you did the ultimate for human kind, you brought another into the world. Wear it proudly. Not everybody has them, and most men on the planet, if they could bear going through it once, would never ever contemplate it again. But women do. They're tough in a whole different way than men, and things like a midriff scar, a body that has been put through natural child birth, that has nursed infants, that takes a whole lot of constitution that men don't have. Even if you haven't have kids, it's the fact that knowing you will / would gladly if you could sets you apart. Men DO appreciate that, most of them can't or won't talk about it. Pregnant women turn some men on. Why? Because of the fertility aspect. There's something not quite describable about a pregnant women that is an attraction all it's own.

 

You put up with a hell of a lot each and every month. Some guys do appreciate what you go through. I don't think I could take that. You take it in stride, you handle it well, you don't let it stop you from the task at hand and that's a huge achievement on its own every few weeks.

 

In short, if you care about yourself, more men than perhaps you realize will find you attractive. Ugly and unsightly are states of mind. No matter how you think you might look, if you care about how you look, then you are a wonderful person.

 

If who you are with thinks you need to change something, then perhaps they have the issues. Unless you are on a self-induced downhill slide because you don't care who or how you are, they should still find you as attractive as when you met, if not more so.

 

Anyway, that's how I see it. I'll get back to work now ...

[Dako]

Ash, you nailed it!

I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't spoken for the majority of men past the influence of peer pressure and advertising.

[OceanEyes]

Hey Ash, can I bottle whatever you've been drinking and slip it to all of my male friends?

 

I just loved that post.

[WildChild]

I am really glad I posted this, I actually feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I take no offense to anyone's thoughts and again appreciate having the listening ears. This time my post wasn't about finding a cure all to this situation and I appreciate that every one of you saw that. This I guess could have been about the internal struggles I have and basically facing my fears and own insecurities. That post as well as this one was and is about how things are not always black and white, how lives, experiences, struggles and relationships are not made from a cookie cutter.

 

I did tell him Sunday he owed me an apology and he genuinely did apologize. As he doesn't know about my bulimia and I will never tell him, I struggle internally everytime he comments about what I should weigh or whatever. Women and/or men who find their partners attractive no matter what are forunate. I was raised that me nor my sister would be heavy. I am bulimic and she is obese. It does hurt me when he never tells me I am sexy when I am naked and I again told him that on Sunday. He again genuinely apologized. I am beginning to understand that maybe our sex life and his veiwing of porn are two different things and not related at all. By telling me about his past may have led me to think that this is what he wants and desires in women. But if I look at how he feels that it is only about sex with me, maybe he feels like he is the object and that sex for me is just about that and not the intimacy involved. I know it is not just about sex, but when it feels like constant rejection to me I probably do come accross that it is all about sex. I am also beginning to understand that maybe his desire to look at porn is because of his upraising, that maybe by looking at porn allows him in his mind to see women as sexual objects and not taking those thoughts out on me. He is double standard, but I don't think he even knows he is. He was sexually abused as a young child by his female babysitter and his father had constant affairs on his mother. I find it quite telling that he tells me about his abuse, but his mother was who told me about his dad's constant affairs. Affairs he is very well aware of. What morals did he have to go by? None. No one taught him what normal sexuality was about. He learned at a very young age about sex without having any control over it.

 

Many men have said and do believe that a woman's body is nothing compared to who she is as a person. When we have been taught by society as young children to have a certain image or a certain mindset, it is hard to break anyone of that. American's have been thrown the ideas for decades that thin is good. Yet we are the most obese country. Women constantly have gimics and ads, movies, magazines and trained mindsets that if you want to look beautiful you should weigh this, wear that, use this makeup. I may only speak for the minority of people here, but insecurities don't just happen. One comment, one glance, one joke can ruin anyone's self image they may have for themselves. So yes, I feel secure about myself and have come a hell of a long way with the way I was raised and being bulimic until I do see that he views younger women on the internet and that the women he dated before me were all in their early to mid 20's outside of his ex. Stuggling that my ex left me for a younger women. Insecurities are ugly, and I will be the first to admit that. Those are my insecurities, but they are real. Do I believe that he views younger, thinner women and desires that, yes I do. Anyone who has been left by their SO for a younger companion can completely relate, no matter of their age.

 

This man has grown a lot since I met him. Maybe it isn't that he has grown, but he is finally allowing some of the wall to come down. I told him he opened a pandora's box with me. Anytime he offends me by his comments I will defend myself and his comment was "It's about time." I also decided that when he knows he says something or does something to get a rise out of me I in return am going to do the same thing. I am not doing this to be mean or humiliating, but a good dose of his own medicine I think will simmer this pot down a bit. He weighed himself the other day and told me his proudly told me his weight. As much as it killed me inside, I commented back "Oh, oh. You gained two pounds." Some will say that was wrong, but he never hesitates to remind me in his own way. If it takes only one time for him to feel the hurt like like I feel, then I have put him in my shoes. I can only hope this gets better and I will continue to be patient because I love him and who he is, and I truly sympathize with his past and childhood. Next week I may be back on here with the same issue. But today I feel better knowing that I have finally let it out that I fear that I in the end I again will not be good enough.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Ash I don't mean any offense by this, but older men are usually more appreciative of women anyway. Men in my age group don't really give you a 2nd look if you're not bedecked in lowrise hiphuggers and midrift clingy tops. They have been so inundated with trash that they fail to think beyond their little heads needs.

[Dako]

WC,

You're especially understanding to cope so well. He may have his faults, but he has to know how lucky he is.

Few women would be so patiently persistent without becoming a raging beast, especially when you feel vulnerable for so many reasons. Hopefully this guy can get it together for you.

 

You're a good one!

[ShySoul]

Ash, that was great. You are right on as usual. Especially loved these parts:

 

What IS ideal anyway? Different guys have different ideas, and there's a clue in itself that perhaps there is no ideal, and in reality doesn't matter as much as you might think.

 

In short, if you care about yourself, more men than perhaps you realize will find you attractive. Ugly and unsightly are states of mind.

[Ash]

CarnelianButterfly said:

Ash I don't mean any offense by this, but older men are usually more appreciative of women anyway. Men in my age group don't really give you a 2nd look if you're not bedecked in lowrise hiphuggers and midrift clingy tops. They have been so inundated with trash that they fail to think beyond their little heads needs.

 

You are correct unfortunately. The onus then partly lies on us as parents to attempt to instill in our kids true values. Perhaps more so with men and boys. When us males all get together, young and old (generally a work related function, or perhaps on a sports team, maybe at the lunch table at the plant) we need to let the younger ones in the group know that there is more to life than comparing a woman to a picture in a magazine. The women in the room at the time are real, the ideal ones perhaps fiction. Us older guys need to pass on the message, and some of us do try.

 

On the other hand, older men sometimes still do think they wish to seek what they consider ideal. I know enough of that type too, and to make it worse they chase the younger women too, think they are in a different league than the rest of us, and can act more condescending to women (and other men for that matter) than somebody of a younger age might.

 

And of course no offense taken ... assuming you are referring to me as an old guy! Sometimes I feel old, sometimes I don't. Perhaps that's best for somebody else to decide anyway! (My kids think I'm somewhere between like ... "really old" and 70 or something like that ... *grins*)

 

WildChild, maybe one day, somewhere in the future, you can look forward to a time where you can tell your guy types of things you're telling us. Let's hope ...

 

That being said, there are still some things I can't tell my lady because sometimes you just need to have somebody outside the relationship to sound off against.

 

And Wildchild, I'm very glad you feel some of the weight off your shoulders. Well done.