otherside Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I don't think that is what this post is about at all. I disagree. To me, this is the general issue the post revolves around -- as with most issues -- simple at the core but with many layers. Just what do you think it is about? There are a number of major generalisations in your post that make quantum leaps but this one really stood out. No doubt there are some men like this, and possibly in a certain age bracket this may be more true but there are way too many men as defined in your statement that don't think this way to make such a generalisation. Funny this coming from you who just posted above "I think when you discuss things like this you have to accept that you are only talking in reasonably general terms". You can try to understand what someone is saying -- or merely pick them by reading generalizations to the absurd. However, in this case, I think the generalziation applies to almost all men (not that there is anything wrong with objectification). At the same time, you can say it applies to almost none -- it all hinges on how you see objectification (I see it largely as instinctual sexual attraction). My point is that all men have some of this in them, and only when this is realized, will greater understanding be achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melrich Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 "I think when you discuss things like this you have to accept that you are only talking in reasonably general terms". I think a generalisation in this sort of debate is to be expected but the generalisation should be limited to a statement where the exception proves the rule and I don't believe the one I highlighted is anywhere near that. This post is an attempt to define why women view pornogarphy differently to men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnelianButterfly Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 While porn is the topic here, the root of the issue is great male desire for multiple and varied female companionship. I don't think companionship is the correct word for it. Its sex, companionship implies something deeper. It maybe 'healthy' for men to desire multiple partners, but in all honesty it does always lead to healthy ends when they enact those desire. STDs are at epidemic levels and even with condoms there are possiblilities of tranfer. The root of males wanting to spread their seed maybe ingrained by genetics, but in our society its not safe to be promiscuous, a term that really should be applied to men as much a women for equal numbers of sex partners. The double standard has no place anymore, most young men by givining into they're over the top sex drives really should be considered sluts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherside Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I think a generalisation in this sort of debate is to be expected but the generalisation should be limited to a statement where the exception proves the rule and I don't believe the one I highlighted is anywhere near that. This post is an attempt to define why women view pornogarphy differently to men. Your post lists you as a man. I ask you: when you walk down the street, or see a film, do you not often see women's bodies as sexual? If you are in the vast majority of males, I believe you do so, and in my opinion, that is objectfiying them. By denying that men are like this, by not accepting this generalization, we are skirting the issue. Yes, almost all men will try to make a women feel that they are so special that they don't need to look at others anymore -- but in reality, that is rarely the case. Only when that is accepted and realized, can things be better understood and problems avoided. The original poster concluded with a reversal of normal roles -- a man finding and being bothered by porno on his girlfriends computer. This, I viewed as an attempt to "teach men a lesson". Thus, my opinion on this post being another one shooting down men for looking at women. Although you are a "super moderator" , I don't think this give you the power to define what a post is about (or am I wrong? -- I'm new here). I read all the posts here, and if this was really just about how women and men viewed porn differently, their would not be some of the back and forth accusations one gets above. Unfortunately, often one may think they are being "objective" about a certain issue, when in reality, their own personal issues get in the way. That's okay, just please don't attack me for not agreeing with you that the attempt of the posts is to discuss "why women view pornogarphy differently to men". (Which my above post is also relevant to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherside Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I don't think companionship is the correct word for it. Its sex, companionship implies something deeper. It maybe 'healthy' for men to desire multiple partners, but in all honesty it does always lead to healthy ends when they enact those desire. I agree. Thus, can not porn and other aids to masterbation be viewed as a "healthy alternative" to natural but more dangerous urges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunkykatt Posted February 23, 2006 Author Share Posted February 23, 2006 The more I read of this thread the more sad I become, I only posted the original just to give some insight for the guys to kinda see where alot of women are coming from thats all. It was never an attack or judgement if you watched porn or not. However seeing the majoritiy of the replies from men I think Im gonna become a lesbian..looks like men and women will never actually listen to one another, but rather give excuses or lay blame on who or why its acceptable or not. Blah....Im just so depressed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnelianButterfly Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Wow, she must have been good! (But then she dumped you!) That's okay, just please don't attack me for not agreeing with you that the attempt of the posts is to discuss "why women view pornogarphy differently to men". I think I'd attack on Dako's sake and it would have nothing to do with porn. Although I think the video of it might sell as good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnelianButterfly Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I agree. Thus, can not porn and other aids to masterbation be viewed as a "healthy alternative" to natural but more dangerous urges? I don't mind porn, what I do mind is that men look at me and all they see is a sex object, which is what porn reinforces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunkykatt Posted February 23, 2006 Author Share Posted February 23, 2006 The original poster concluded with a reversal of normal roles -- a man finding and being bothered by porno on his girlfriends computer. This, I viewed as an attempt to "teach men a lesson". Thus, my opinion on this post being another one shooting down men for looking at women. Just for future knowledge...I did NOT post the scenerio as an attempt "to teach men a lesson", I posted it for the men who say "I dont know why she doesnt get it, porn is just a release...."etc.. so maybe they could read it and a light go off in their head...."WOW, I get it now, I see why she is that way". I didnt say men should change their habits, nor feel bad, dirty or wrong for viewing porn. By you assuming those things you took my post out of context and put some random meaning with it that justified your response. If you cant read it like its written, as in "hey guys...THIS IS WHY alot of WOMEN feel the way they do about your watching porn" then please take a few minutes and re-read it, keep in mind its not meant to "teach anyone a lesson" its just stating a simple fact for most women, accept it dont...its your choice. I didnt ask for why you have your reasons to watch porn, I just wanted to tell you why women felt they way they do. THATS IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherside Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Carnelian- I replied to Daco with a personal message. I don't think such such attitude is appropriate for this lovely site -- if it is, there are many other places I could be. I really don't think you can blame porn for how men look at you as a sexuall object. Many, many people, including some more progressive feminist, would agree with me on this. Check out Camille Paglia for one. Oh, and by the way, if a lovely young thing like you wants to attack me, I'm game -- let me know -- how I should dress -) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaissancewoman101 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I agree with Carnelian Butterfly, all porn really does is it reduces women to just being "sex objects" and we as women dont want to be viewed as just being sex objects. Porn cheapens women and it cheapens the act of sex between two people that really love and care for one another, because that is really what sex should be about, not just the fulfillment of our carnal and base desires. No matter if a woman does agree with her SO that porn isnt bad, eventually the woman is going to wonder what isnt so good about herself that her SO likes to watch porn and it will affect the woman's identity and self-esteem because she will wonder why she isnt good enough and she may even try to emulate those acts as seen on the porn tape in order to keep the SO's attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaissancewoman101 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Otherside, you havent been on this site that long, so you dont know the history behind a lot of the long time posters on here. thereforeeee, you shouldnt be making statements on here like that, that can hurt other people's feelings. That is not called for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnelianButterfly Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Carnelian- I replied to Daco with a personal message. I don't think such such attitude is appropriate for this lovely site -- if it is, there are many other places I could be. I really don't think you can blame porn for how men look at you as a sexuall object. Many, many people, including some more progressive feminist, would agree with me on this. Check out Camille Paglia for one. Oh, and by the way, if a lovely young thing like you wants to attack me, I'm game -- let me know -- how I should dress -) If you would actually read progressive feminist literature like B*tch magazine or The Beauty Myth by Naomi Wolf, you will find that many, many feminist DO NOT embrace pornography, they actually abhor it. And if you don't think my attitude is inappropriate, try insulting my friend again! Your newbie status doesn't excuse you from your insensitive remark, nor does it allow you to dismiss my anger by turning it into a sexual advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherside Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Carnelian, I'm not going to get into some war with you over who has read more progressive feminist literature (of course, I have!). If you are well read, you would at least know that their is not a united feminist opinion in regards to pornography and it's affect on treatment of women. Let me ask you, do you think women were treated better before the advent of easy to get porn? Do you really think men need porn to sexualize their view of women?! The feminist movement was largely behind the prohibition of alchohal in the 20's (afterall, the devil in the drink was behind abuse of women, right) -- what did that do? I did not write your attidude is inappropriate -- I was referring to dako, but yours is getting there. Oh, and by the way, I think humurous dismissal of a threat of physical assault is far preferable to more of the same. No, my "newbie" status is not an excuse for anything (and I did not intend to insult dako), and nor does your 206 post here mean you can talk big and expect no come back. Easy now - I'm not the enemy you so much want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherside Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 dako- I replied to you with a personal message because there is no reason for all to read whatever issues you have with me. No, you didn't care to deal with it that way, so here I am. Dako- read this -- I did not intend to insult you, no matter how you may have read what I wrote. But this is not the place or way to clear such things up. Crying over public forums is not always the best way to let out grievences. Let's give everyone a break. And by the way -- it is precisely because of always finding people like you so quick to anger and condemn, that I have not exposed my personal life here. I sincerely thought this forum was different until meeting you. Bye, bye, sorry all for this waste of space, -- off to the otherside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dako Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Look at my past posts and see how angry I am. I get angry about once every decade, and you earned it. You insulted me here, so deal with it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarnelianButterfly Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Let me ask you, do you think women were treated better before the advent of easy to get porn? So the mass production of sexual product has improved how women are treated. I sure don't think so, but maybe the guy who raped me should have just rubbed off a few to a centerfold instead of deciding he wanted the real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dako Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Did Elvis leave the building??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaissancewoman101 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 dako- Crying over public forums is not always the best way to let out grievences. Let's give everyone a break. And by the way -- it is precisely because of always finding people like you so quick to anger and condemn, that I have not exposed my personal life here. I sincerely thought this forum was different until meeting you. Bye, bye, sorry all for this waste of space, -- off to the otherside. Otherside, you are wrong, this forum is for people who have had their hearts broken to be afforded the opportunity to air their grievances, their sorrow and cry their hearts out in a community that is understanding and will take the time to give us advice and a shoulder to cry on. A lot of us dont have someone else to cry upon so we come here to be able to air our life's stories and we expect a modicum of respect and understanding because we are grieving and sad. We will give respect to those who come on here and we, in turn, expect the same respect and understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildChild Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 While porn is the topic here, the root of the issue is great male desire for multiple and varied female companionship. So what you are saying is that no matter who a woman is with, men are always on the look out for someone different, perhaps better than his mate and in multiplications? On a side note, your comment to Dako was out of line. Based on your thoughts that men desire multiple and varied female companionship, and your comment to Dako, makes me wonder what your relationships with women truly are. You owe the man an apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildChild Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Otherside, this is what you posted not too long ago on another thread: Then, of course, I always like to talk a subject to death, or at least until I feel I have finished making my point (I always like to have the last word). Also, I like to blame the prudes in my life for holding me back, and continue to resent dirty looks anytime me and my girl are having fun. Just live and let live. Women, please don't put down girls just because they are doing things that your boy likes to see. And enough with the "low self-esteem" answer -- that's been done to death. (Actually, I think the behavior issues commonly discussed here are often the result of too much self esteem -- if we all thought a little less of ourselves, perhaps we wouldn't feel so entitled to hurt so many others while insisting on our way). I wonder if your "objective" view here is just that or is it more about your having to have the last word? This has been a "hot" topic on this forum. There has been a lot of input, othersides of the coin, and advice given on this topic. While spunkycat's intitial post was to try to bring perspectives to each side of this topic, you have taken it and blown it beyond its proportions. A word to the wise is that just because you "tire" someone out with an opinion does not make your opinion right. Just because someone throws their hands up in the air out of pure tiredness from a debate, does not make your opinion right. Your need for the last word that you are choosing to bring to this forum is an underlying problem and probably is stemmed from an insecurity? It is opinions of narrowmindedness that make people cringe. If your thoughts were objective without generalizations to the whole male mass it might be food for thought. But I have to wonder what is your pleasure in all of this but generalizing and making your opinions speak for many other men on this forum let alone outside of this forum? It makes me wonder how old you are and if indeed you possibly have some sexual frustration yourself? Whether it is lack intimacy or companionship. As for low self esteem, you can go back and read my threads as I am certain you will do. I have an open mind to this subject, but opinions based on sheer pleasure of getting your way is unfair to those of us who really want to understand. My problems are that I can't get my guy to barely look at me no matter what I do and your response I am almost certain will be that it is something about me or generalize that I am not bringing enough to the table. And finally "if we all thought a little less of ourselves, perhaps we wouldn't feel so entitled to hurt so many others while insisting on our way." Those are your exact words. Maybe stop thinking so much of yourself so you don't feel the entitlement to hurt people while insisting on your way. Now, while opinions and thoughts are welcomed I think this thread is out of hand. I thank you spunkycat for trying to get people together for an intelligent debate to gain perspectives from both men and women, but I do not thank you otherside for your lack of empathy, lack of thoughtfulness, and your desire to hurt people's feelings out of sheer pleasure to fulfill some sick need of being right and having the last word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayKay Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 This thread locked & under investigation for flaming etcetera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunatic Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Thread to remain locked since it spun out of control with disrespect and flaming. This thread will not accomplish anything except more disrespect and flaming. Since this thread was spiraling out of control I have left it locked till further notice. Hubman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Frankly to add a note from the Administration - you all should be ashamed of yourselves for the way you have acted in this thead. This forum is not here for people to trash others the way I have seen them trashed in this thread. If you cannot respect that, then this is not the forum for you. I'd highly suggest you all apologize to each other privately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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