Is it bad if he has more fun with friends than with me?

[xmrth]

This might be long... I really need advice. This is tearing me up.

 

I don't know what to do, once again. I saw my therapist yesterday and everything that I've told you guys is what I told her, and she was just like "Then dump him! You can get much better if he's going to want to go out like that instead of see you." and things like what I see in him versus other guys, and how if I should put up with the things in other guys that I don't want to deal with if it means to be seen more and be more of a priority.

 

I am a snoop and look around on MySpace alot (neither of us are on that stupid site) but I look at some people who I know on there just because I do get bored and I do get curious as to what's going on, and I managed to find some of his friends on there... and they've just got all these female friends, and some of his friends are in the army, and the females are all talking about doing stuff and having a party when they come back just on leave, and my boyfriend usually sees me and then goes out to see these army friends without me, and I wonder WHY if there's girls there that I can't go? I don't mind if it's all guys and that's what I've been saying for a while now in which I don't mind if he's with them, but not if there's girls. If there's girls then that changes everything into no reason why I shouldn't be able to go. I want to talk to him about this all tomorrow.

However, there's a good chance he's really only with the guy friends the times they've been back. But that doesn't mean it's always going to be like that. I want to be included.. I don't care. All guys or not. It really is important. How can I get him to see how important it is?

 

I almost want to tell him he has to choose whether or not he wants to let me hang with him and his friends when they come back and the other things I'm mentioning, or we won't work out... But I DON'T want to play games... I really do not want him to leave... I just want compromise. My parents and now my therapist have said that there's nothing on my terms in this relationship, and everything's on his terms. And it's true, nothing is on my terms really.

 

This really can't wait. I want to know why he wants to go out with his friends so much on a Fri or Sat (which yes, the nature of things you do on those days are different from weekdays-- ie. drinking), because for one thing, some of his friends are single, but the ones in relationships probably aren't doing things with their girlfriends because the girls are BUSY, or maybe they see their girlfriends several days a week! In which I'm only seeing my boyfriend Fri and Sat, the days he wants to be with his friends...

I am so upset and just want things to change right now, and I can't wait any longer.

 

I'm also talking to my doctor tomorrow about anxiety medication, because this gets me so anxious-- meds won't take the problems away, but at least I can do something other than worry I'm hoping.

[Hope75]

Have you talked to him about why if there are a bunch of people hanging out, including other guy's girlfriends and other girls, why you aren't invited to tag along? If there are only guys than I can see why he'd want to just "be one the the guys" and not bring you along, but if there's a bunch of people there, including other girlfriends and girls, I don't see why you can't be included.

 

Talk to him about it, but I wouldn't take it to the level where you give him an ultimatum-- just be sure if you do this that you are ready for him to tell you that he wants to leave you, because that is the choice you are putting before him.

[xmrth]

I have talked to him about that before, and asking "hey, if everyone hangs out together, I can come too, right?" "yeah" (in a half "of course" tone) but that was many many months ago, maybe 6 more or less, and nothing has come of it. I've mentioned it since then several times of course, and nothing has come of it either.

I just want to say instead of the ultimatum, because you're right, and I really don't want him to walk, but I was thinking maybe saying "I don't care if you hang out with your friends those nights, but if you want that then I really want you to invite me along with you some of the times and you can go hang with them whenever you want."

But then it's as if there's nothing bad that would come of it if he chooses to never bring me still... I just want to say maybe that I won't be the same if he doesn't do this, or something like that. Or just say seriousely "things won't be the same."

I just want to give him all kinds of examples of how he is so wrong... I mean, his older sister brings her boyfriend out with her and her friends, and some girls I know are invited out with their boyfriends and their friends, and I really could be the only one who's not, but it's not about them being able to do it...

 

I just feel so out of the loop, too. Not to mention I wouldn't even need anxiety medication if he'd just invite me out and include me and all of that. Because eventually I'm going to get used to hanging with them and going over his house and not even care anymore.

[RayKay]

I think you already know every relationship is different - there are some where the couple does not hang out with each others friends as much, if at all.

 

However, in my experience, when things are SO divided as they seem to be, it is very often because they do not have a perception of you as their "life partner".

 

Think of what YOU believe a true, strong, loving relationship is - would you not think that in addition to being lovers, you should also be best friends? If that is the case, why wouldn't your partner NEVER want to include you when he is hanging out with his friends? And I mean...NEVER.What concerns me in your case is how separateD it all is. How he keeps you RIGHT OUT of his other life. I know his excuse with his old friends was they were into drugs...so what is it with his army friends? Considering they get drug tested......well it better not be for the same reasons! In my experience with people whom never brought their partners along, it was because they did not ultimately feel a friendship with them, or they really did not "see" them as partners, equals, life mates. I don't know WHAT the reason is for your boyfriend, but I do think this NOT knowing is tearing you up, and as much as you *try* to be okay with it, you know very well, you AREN'T. You are only okay with it when people tell you to just be okay with it....but fundamentally you aren't.

 

I am not sure an ultimatum is what you should be going for - because honestly, do you believe you would follow through anyway? What does "being different" mean if he does not take you out? Only give an ultimatum if you are prepared to carry through with it, and having said that, people do not like ultimatums.

 

What you should do is find out WHY he won't take you out, and don't back off and whither away when he gives you another lame excuse. And decide if this is TRULY the relationship YOU want. DON'T SETTLE OR SHORTCHANGE YOURSELF.

 

My boyfriend and I are very much friends with one another, I am invited to hang out with him and his friends - be it with his male friends, or with a mixed group of friends. I get along well with his friends, am sociable and have a good time. There has never been an issue from his friends that I am there. Sure there are times we hang out separateLY from one another with our own friends, but it's not because we don't want one another there, it may be because one of us is not feeling up to going, or has other plans, or it may be to catch up with one person we have not seen in a while, so it's a bit different. I just find it very odd he NEVER EVER invites you out.

[xmrth]

I don't know why he does that, but he keeps things compartmentalized. Friends aren't mixed with family, family isn't too mixed with me though that's changing, and I'm not mixed with friends.

 

One thing I don't understand is a friend of mine was saying how she was going to say goodbye to her boyfriend's friend who's going into the army because he may die.

Well I can't even say goodbye and say goodluck to my boyfriend's friends who are in the army when they go back after being on leave, and I thik that's horrible. It's like he's depriving his friends of good wishes. I almost want to tell him he's being a terrible friend because of that and if I was his friend I'd say see you later or something.

 

I don't know at all what to say to him, and I have to figure out by tonight as that's when I'm seeing him...

I don't really know how I'll be different, but it's the only thing I can take away in which I'm not really saying what it is and leaving it up to him to think about.

[xmrth]

I talked to him about it tonight, but nothing came of it. He said he's so tired of me complaining about it and he'd break up with me if I don' t break up with him. He said whatever things I read on the internet (MySpace-- the website I hate, and again neither of us have but the whole world does with all the information you could ever want to know about anyone) on his friends, it's not like there's all kinds of people and there never is, and all this other stuff. He was just really calm when he said it and wasn't acting strange or anything. I don't know... if it's just him and one other guy, then there's really no place for me there and I don't really care to be there. But I asked if there's all kinds of people if I could come, and he said "there's never all kinds of people; everyone's in the army, moved away, or in college." and things like he never hangs with his friends and their girlfriends and whatnot.

He was aggravated for a while and he didn't feel well to begin with... but then things were fine afterwards, and I just said to him I'm so tired of talking about it and I was just throwing it out there and he took it too seriousely. Just since nothing came of it and nothing apparently will, I figured I'd just play it like it wasn't supposed to be anything big. I told him I really would like to though... but it does sound like when I'm 21 I can because he can take me out to bars with his friends and that's more of a place to be, rather than at their houses just me and him and another person for example. It doesn't do anything for me now, but he sounds pretty solid on when I'm 21. 8 more months.

I'm just really afraid I've messed things up, but the rest of the night was fine... I'm still afraid though that he's going to stay away because I'm always bothering him about this.

I don't know... it's not a big deal if it's all he's told me tonight, but it is if it's what I've been fearing, basically.

[Hope75]

He said he's so tired of me complaining about it and he'd break up with me if I don' t break up with him.

 

Sounds like you've talked about it more than once, and that he feels firm on his position.

 

Now you have to decide whether or not you want to settle for being in this one part of his life, or whether or not you want to carry out what you had said before, which was to leave him if things didn't change.

 

I have to point out that you initially said that if things didn't change you would leave him, and that by staying with him now, you show him that you accept being compartmentalized and left out of other activities. You get what you accept.

 

Just something to think about .

[annie24]

Well I can't even say goodbye and say goodluck to my boyfriend's friends who are in the army when they go back after being on leave, and I thik that's horrible. It's like he's depriving his friends of good wishes. I almost want to tell him he's being a terrible friend because of that and if I was his friend I'd say see you later or something.

 

Instead of the party scene, why don't you ask your boyfriend if the 4 of you, (you, your bf, the army guy, and his gf, if he has one), all go get a good-bye brunch or dinner sometime. Tell your bf that you'd also like to say goodbye to these people. Or, invite them to your place for a low-key dinner.

[xmrth]

Thanks so much for giving me advice on this. I know this post has been going on and on for a while now.

 

I ended up asking him tonight about the dinner thing, about how this friend or that friend and us two could go out to dinner. He didn't seem opposed to the idea at all, except that "When so-and-so comes home, he just gets subs because he has no money" but I'm sure he'd maybe consider taking him out at a restaurant that we normally go to. I don't know if it will work out that way, but when the army friends come back I can ask again. Going to either my house or his and making some sort of dinner thing wouldn't work out at all, though. My house is not ideal in the least bit for these type of guys, and his house is too small and everything else. Then there's another friend of his that I know has money because he works alot, but he was like "we once in a great while go out to eat, but he's usually with his girlfriend when he does that." but he's not into double date things at all, ever. I'm not really sure how well that would go, and I'm not into meeting that particular girlfriend because she does crack and drugs according to what he tells my boyfriend of her. I'm mainly just looking to be included, so whichever is what I tell him.

I just can't wait until I'm 21 because things sound like I'll be out with him and friends at these 21+ places and whatnot. Like I said, it still doesn't help me much now on something that's in 8 months.

[annie24]

I don't think money should be a factor because it's the guy's "goodbye dinner" you and your boyfriend would pay for him.

 

Do you really think that everything will change so drastically in 8 months?

[Hope75]

Exactly what I was thinking Annie. I don't think it has anything to do with your age, xmrth.

 

It seems your guy has every excuse in the book why you simply aren't going to be included in his "outside the relationship" activities.

 

If he were proud to be your partner, why wouldn't he want to have you out with friends?

 

Do you think it's because you are so needy and clingy and he's tired of hearing it, and thinks it will continue if he tries to take you out with others, and that he will look like a whipped fool in front of his friends?

[DN]

Exactly what I was thinking Annie. I don't think it has anything to do with your age, xmrth.

 

It seems your guy has every excuse in the book why you simply aren't going to be included in his "outside the relationship" activities.

 

If he were proud to be your partner, why wouldn't he want to have you out with friends?

 

Do you think it's because you are so needy and clingy and he's tired of hearing it, and thinks it will continue if he tries to take you out with others, and that he will look like a whipped fool in front of his friends?

 

I think it's partly that but didn't he say that his friends are not really the sort that socialise with girls but just to "guy-stuff'. It could be he doesn't want you to see him acting like a nitwit when he is with them - or have you watching them be the same.

[RayKay]

Exactly what I was thinking Annie. I don't think it has anything to do with your age, xmrth.

 

It seems your guy has every excuse in the book why you simply aren't going to be included in his "outside the relationship" activities.

 

If he were proud to be your partner, why wouldn't he want to have you out with friends?

 

Do you think it's because you are so needy and clingy and he's tired of hearing it, and thinks it will continue if he tries to take you out with others, and that he will look like a whipped fool in front of his friends?

 

Exactly....a lot of the things they do now are "under-21" things, so why are you not ever able to be involved in those?

 

He always seems to have plenty of excuses - oh, it's a guy thing, or "they all do a lot of drugs", or "you'd be bored" (shouldn't YOU be able to decide that?).

 

People whom are proud of their partners and see them as very important in their life are often very willing to show them off to their friends!

 

I would honestly be surprised if in 8 months suddenly you were invited along to things, without more excuses cropping up.

[RichyRich]

Hi,

 

Giving space in a relation is very very important. If your guy has childshood friends then I bet they will be a very close bond between them. Its just that they are seeing each other so much that his friends will know him a little better than you. Its not that he is having a lot of fun and he is ignoring you. There are some things.... are nice when its only guys around you. Its just the comfort level. May be your bf knows that you are not comfortable with his friends and he does not like hurting you either. But on the other hand he cannot leave his friends who have been with him for yrs. So he thinks its better off to handle you in person and not mingle you with friends as it will be uncomfortable for you.

The best way to get around this would be to get to know what kind of friends circle are his friends and try going out once in a while. But make sure you don;t have very particular plan. Just go with the group. Once you get to know them you can invite them over to some thing that you have planned. I am sure in this way.... your interests and the other group can blend well and there is some positive energy flowing in,

[xmrth]

I really do believe that this would be so much easier if we lived closer. Again, we live 25 mintues away, and so just say if he lived within either walking distance or a 5-10 minute drive away, there would be a huge difference I think.

I'd be able to go right to his house and stop by and leave, and the probability of being invited out would be much higher as for one thing, I'd probably know his friends from around town, and secondly, they'd see me at his house.

 

I don't really look at what he tells me as being excuses, even though they are. I just don't see him making stories up. I've been with him for 6 years now and I know how he is-- but I do understand that doesn't mean I know all.

The first 3-4 years that we were dating for, he always invited me out with him and his friends. I didn't go most of the time-- I didn't have a car in highschool and he couldn't just drive all the way to me to pick me up and bring me back to his house. I couldn't always get a ride either... so I missed out.

Now like I said his friends are off in the army, in college, moved away, etc. so it's not "everyone hanging out" like it used to be (according to him) and it kind of seems like it... but then I don't see how it's always 1 on 1.

But even 1 on 1 with his friends and him, he doesn't see why I want to... says they don't talk about much, etc. he's never even out with his friends anyways. It's been a couple of weeks now since he went out somewhere other than to the gym, and that was just for a beer at a restraunt/bar in their town. Spontaneous... I can't go to things like that... nobody is going to wait 25-30 minutes for me to join them.

 

I think it's the distance, and also him not seeing WHY it's important that I go out with him and his friends.

I don't think he knows at all how I would be, and maybe would think I'd not talk, but I reassure him all the time I would talk so much, I'm nobody different than who I am around people and all of that.

[RayKay]

You know....25 minutes is NOT a big deal. And if it is important to him to spend time with him, then I do NOT see how people cannot wait 30 minutes for you. I know people whom live hours away from one another and are more included in plans then you are.

 

Seriously, there are lots of times friends will run late, or have to work later, and we will WAIT for them to come!

 

Do you REALLY believe it would be different if you were 10 minutes rather then 25 minutes away, seriously? What would happen if you just "dropped by" now, what do you think he would think if you just dropped by when you lived closer.

 

25 minutes is not distance, nor an excuse...unless you MAKE it distance or an excuse. I don't think it is him not seeing why it's important, I think it is him just not really wanting you there for whatever reason. I don't think because it's anything AGAINST you, I just think he just does not see you as blending with his friends or something, I really don't know. I really have not dealt with that much compartmentalization before so I am not sure his rationale.

[Hope75]

I agree with Raykay on this one.

 

25 minutes is not very far at all. Before my bf and I lived together I lived over an hour away from him, and I saw him several times a week, and hung out with him and his friends quite frequently. You now have a car and I don't understand why you can't be included.

 

I think these are excuses. I know you have been with him for 6 years, but it IS bothering you, that is why you post, and when we love someone we often see them through rose colored glasses, which may be why you are accepting these reasons, when they really don't make very much sense.

 

I think the biggest reason is because if you don't buy them.... you might have to take action, as in the ultimatum, which he already told you he would leave, or you might have to leave him.

 

Do you think that might be it?

[DN]

I am afraid I don't agree with some of the advice here. If you insist on being invited out with his friends when no other girls are invited, it seems to me that you are forcing him to do something that he doesn't want to do. He has already said why he doesn't want you to hang out with his friends.

 

I think he knows why you are making a big deal out of this: it is not because you want to socialise and make friends with his friends but because you want to be with him more than you already are and also because you are insecure about him when he is not with you. And so he resisting the pressure that you are putting on him.

 

Remember that when you push people they either push back - which is what he is doing now; or they walk away - which is what he has told you he will do if you continue.

 

The bottom line is that you are getting ready to leave a relationship because your boyfriend doesn't want you to hang around with a bunch of guys that you wouldn't be seen dead with if it weren't for the fact that they are taking up his time - time you want him to spend with you.

 

I think you should evaluate whether you really want to lose this relationship over this issue. You could end up more hurt than you are now.

[xmrth]

LastCynic, thanks for showing me your post. It's really interesting to hear about the other side of the matter.

 

I'm so afraid I'm pushing him over the edge... The only time I've mentioned it was last Friday, and maybe over a month before that, I'm not sure.

I really don't want to lose him over this, though being included is something I really want. Everything else in the relationship is perfect aside from this, and I definitely don't want to ruin it.

I don't want to break up with him, and I don't want him to break up with me, but he basically said that he was going to end it, but then we settled down and things have been fine since then (last Friday) but just the fact he was ready to walk makes me wonder if now he will act like that out of the blue or something.

[RayKay]

That's just it though DN, there seems to be many occasions where she would NOT be the only female from what she had described with comments left for his friends by other girls on myspace and so forth, events she knew he may have gone to.

 

The bottom line is not that she is using thing as a reason to leave...I honestly thing from the many many threads xmrth has posted she has NO intention of leaving, and it is one of her fears that he will leave her aside from this issue. I think the issue is she is really UNHAPPY in this whole relationship, and often seems to be convincing herself that it is okay for her to be unhappy.

 

It is not like he invites her out sometimes...he NEVER invites her out. Why can't they double date EVER? Why can't she EVER just go to one of their parties? She does not even know if she would never even be caught dead with some of them as she does not even have the opportunity to hang out or meet them!

 

His reasons..seem more like "excuses"...they live "too far away" (25 minutes), she would be bored (how does he know she would be), it's "not like that" (like what?), "well, his girlfriend is different and does not count as another girl"...things like that.

 

DN - what if your wife NEVER wanted you to be around her friends at all. If that part of her life was COMPLETELY separate, not just a matter of sometimes having girls nights out, but ALWAYS, or going out with other couples, and NEVER taking you along? If you read her posts from when she first came here, it's more then just him wanting guys nights out.

 

I think xmrth would be FINE if she had the same equal time with him she does now, but one of those nights could be a group thing - a double date, whatever, but even THAT is forbidden. She started this post because he wanted to REPLACE nights with her with his friends...I don't think she is overreacting or being pushy - she has been with him for 5 years, and is a partner in this relationship, not an afterthought.

 

I never said she should insist, I think most people did suggest she see if there are other solutions...but I don't think she should be settling for a relationship where she is NOT happy, not seemingly included in his life and where her boyfriend does not even seem to think she is fun enough to come along with him to some of these parties, double dates or whatever.

 

Seriously, if he goes out to eat with one of his friends and his gf, why can she NOT come along or be invited? Ever?

[xmrth]

I think I have to clarify some things...

That's just it though DN, there seems to be many occasions where she would NOT be the only female from what she had described with comments left for his friends by other girls on myspace and so forth, events she knew he may have gone to.

I have no idea if he himself would be there too, but I do know that females are friends with his friends by this.

 

I think the issue is she is really UNHAPPY in this whole relationship, and often seems to be convincing herself that it is okay for her to be unhappy.

I'm not unhappy in the whole relationship at all, but this is really dragging it down, I can say that. I'm really happy with him otherwise.

 

His reasons..seem more like "excuses"...they live "too far away" (25 minutes), she would be bored (how does he know she would be), it's "not like that" (like what?),

With the 25 minutes away, he never said that, that was just a thought I was sharing on here. I was thinking about how it would probably be easier if we lived closer...

 

"well, his girlfriend is different and does not count as another girl"...things like that.

He has never ever said that. I think you might be referring to his friend's girlfriend who is a crackhead. He doesn't know her personally and most importantly, isn't interested in double dates or hanging with his friend's girlfriends, but he knows this from his friend as he's always complaining about it to him. I have no desire to meet a crackhead either..

 

I was talking to my therapist about this today and she suggested and agreed with some of my thoughts which were: right now just try to focus on me building my own friendships and doing things outside of with him. Because I really don't have many solid friendships, especially not with people who live near me. Everyone I'm friends with lives so far away, it's hard to do much of anything because it's like two separate worlds.

My boyfriend told me when I'm 21, me and his friends will go to bars and things like that... well I'm thinking of starting that all in a different way, and since my 21st birthday is on a Friday (a day his friends are apparently available) I want him to have them come so I can feel like I've got a big party because I probably won't have many of my own friends to come. Just something like that and how much it would mean to me.

And I won't see her over the summer, but I will next September, so I can "tell her about how it's going" then. Something she asked me was "what if things were like this 5 more years from now?" yes, it would definitely be different. I wouldnt' stand for it. But I just don't see this happening still in 5 years.

 

I am so happy with him, but this does bring it all down... but for now I'll just see where it goes. It's not that simple, but for now until my 21st, I'll try to focus on other things...

I'm always afraid that I screw things up, though. The only thing I haven't done is do my own things and become more unavailable and occupied with other things and have it show to him..

[xmrth]

The whole idea as of the past couple of days is to just let it go for now... see how things are when I'm 21. Just because everything else is fine so I'll just enjoy that.

I ended up talking to him about it once more yesterday... didn't jump on him like last weekend and talked to him the way I know how in which he'll open up to me. I explained I was just really aggravated about it last week and that I let it build up.

So we talked about it for a bit and my main concern is WHY I can't, and not so much if I can and when I can.

He explained some situations as to I'd be the 3rd wheel as it's just him and one other person... how he likes to have his friends as they're HIS friends and he likes to be with them when he's with them, and he likes to be with me when he's with me.

 

His older sister has friends that she clearly hangs with while she's with her boyfriend, and I brought this up to him and he said "She's social. I'm not social. I can't do that." so that answered an underlying question I've had, but figured things were different... when I did hang with his friends way back when, he didn't say anything... he's quiet... I was bored... felt awekward... and apparently he's no different, and it makes more sense to me about me being the 3rd wheel.

 

It seems to me like it's all about me possibly being the 3rd wheel and not really much going on between him and the friend... but he likes to hang out and have a beer and things like that.

It doesn't mean that everythings just fine now, it just means that I can take it a bit less personally. I feel that he needs to be "proved" that it isn't so bad if I come along. I feel that I just have to be at the right place at the right time where I can be with him and one of his friends and show him I can make it not be awekward. It's like he doesn't want to chance it because I really didn't say a word way back when... and there's no way he could see it has changed but I know it would be changed because I'm very very different from when I was.

It's so hard for this to not sound like 'excuses excuses' because I can't say every single aspect of our relationship and the conversations we have. But I don't feel anything as being just excuses and not being truth.

 

Tonight he has to do something family related and pick a family member up from the airport a bit far away and it's going to be later on, but this is going to be his "once in a while" time to hang out with a friend tonight, and I'm possibly doing the same with a friend of mine so it works out great, especially after the conversation of what he'd be doing which I didn't elaborate on, but basically just hanging with one of his friends for a little bit. I can kind of see why he wants to do something on a Fri or Sat night... it really is different. I'm kind of excited just to go out tonight with a friend of my own and have it be a Saturday, and not a Monday or Tuesday night for example.

 

I still don't see why I can't go, but can understand what he's saying... but I think he just needs to be proved or something such as that. He doesn't care that I'm friends with his friends, though I have no way, but his time with them is his time with them...

I'll just let it go for now... I guess I just wanted to update even though most of it's just the same as I've said before.

Sorry this is so long.