She likes me but she is talking to other guys

[TheG]

Greetings Enotaloners 

I (m31) am pursuing (f23)

We met at a music event and she caught my attention the first time i laid eyes on her. No one else caught my attention at the event. I was also attracted to how she was so into the music as I am a music producer myself and love music. 

Eventually, i gathered the courage to approach her. The first time I just greeted her and she greeted back with a smile and walked past. I approached a second time and asked if I could take her number to take her on a lunch date and she said she would think about it. The 3rd time as I was leaving I asked for her number again and she gave me her instagram handle instead. 

Her instagram profile has some privacy measures so when I Dm'd her she only saw the message after 2 weeks. Eventually, she did reply after 2 weeks and we set up a date for the same week she replied. The date went really well and we proceeded to go on 2 more dates. Interestingly, a strong indication of her interest was that she always makes herself available when I want to see her. She doesnt seem concerned about what we will do on the dates, she just says yes and I decide what we do for the date. However, on a few occasions while we were on the dates she would get shady calls (I assume from other guys based on the way she answered the calls). She answers calls from guys while I am with her. I do not know if it is because she wants to show me that she has nothing to hide or if she really wants to pick these guys' calls up. Anyway I did not ask her that detail because we are still in the dating stage. Another strange thing is that she cant look me in the eyes and she says its because she is shy. 

On the latest meet up her best friend texted her while we were together and she told me about it. SO I am the one who suggested that she invite her best friend to join us. When the friend came, alot of things about this girl I am dating were exposed. Also, the girl I'm dating seems to be a lightweight in terms of alcohol. So the combination of alcohol and her friend being there just showed me a different side of her. The biggest issue I picked up is that she doesnt have a back bone when it come to her friend. Her friend has quite a strong personality like myself. So her friend and I were debating a lot of the time and she kept supporting her friends views even though I know that she wasnt totally convinced of her friends views. My only issue with this is that her friend's outlook on relationships is quite negative, almost transactional. Her friend has a materialistic view on relationships which the girl I am dating didnt seem to have, but she was supporting her best friend's views. 

Mind you the girl i am dating has never struck me as that type. In fact she strikes me as a God fearing woman as we speak about Christian aspects alot and she tells me she is looking for a church as she has recently moved around (There are many more reasons why I have this view). Her friend, however, seems to be a very strong (and negative) influence in her life. So on the latest meet up, the girl I am dating got really drunk and someone called her saying he wants to fetch them to go to a party. The girl told me that her 'gay' friend wants to pick her and her best friend up to go to a party and she asked me if I want to come with (I think she was bluffing me here as she knew that I wanted to go back home as I had a few things to do). I said no

After that, her friend and her seemed to be deliberating on this party (the logistics I guess) and finally she decided that I should drop her and her best friend off at her best friends place. Interestingly her best friend liked me and told me some strange words. Something like "When you go to sleep tonight, know that you are a great guy". It seemed like she was saying, you're a good guy but this is how the game is sort of thing. The girl I'm dating said she is going to sleep and I asked her if shes going to the party and she said she will let me know if she does. (she didnt, this was last night)

So I am now struggling to trust the girl I am dating and have developed some insecurities. I think she is entertaining other guys in a dishonest way. Her best friend does not make things any better. Also, note that she has broken up with a best friend before, so it seems like her choice in friends has been found wanting.  

Her parents divorced while she was young. She opened up to me about it and it seems that there are some traumas there. She did communicate that she spoke to her dad about therapy. 

What are you guys' thoughts on this situation ?

 

[Kwothe28]

18 minutes ago, TheG said:

She answers calls from guys while I am with her. 

Yeah, no. Maybe she is young so doesnt bother with stuff like that. But answering the calls from other men while on the date? Rude to a date you are with and instant red flag. 

Lots of other stuff too. For example inviting her friend over to her date? That is maybe on you because technically you did it. But its still not something acceptable. Point of the date is for you to see if the other person suits you. 3rd party is just 3rd wheel. Same with her choices in friends. Highly acceptable to bad influence is not a characteristic you want in a girlfriend. Also, got really drunk on your date? Highly unacceptable as well.

So I would look at all this in a way that you arent for each other. Maybe its because she is young so maybe wants to “experience life”. So she likes to go on dates, meet lots of men, drink, parties etc. But in terms of serious relationship, those are not characteristics of somebody you should consider for it. 

[yogacat]

I think it's rude that she is fielding other calls from men while on a date and would make anyone question her interest in the relationship.

Inviting her friend to the date was definitely not a good sign because it shows indecisiveness on her part and immaturity. It is not a good thing if her friend is her biggest influence and has negative views on relationships.

She is 23 and 23 year olds don't always think before they act.

She wants to have fun and be carefree rather than commit to anything serious. 

Look, when you've been on three dates with someone, if you still have interest in entertaining other guys, you're not ready to be in a relationship with anyone. So that's what I'm looking at. Why you're not just spending time and needing to be with just one person after three dates.

[MissCanuck]

I don't think this young lady is mature enough for you, OP. 

 

[Coily]

I would be bothered by her chatting up someone (even platonicly) on dates, let alone bringing a friend along this early.

If you want to go forward with her, express your concerns and see how she reacts; that will speak volumes. It could all go poorly, or result in a positive change. Expect to walk away, but you never know.

[SophiaG]

You've been on a total of three dates if I read this correctly. Why do you insist you know her better than herself or her best friend? If she's siding with her friend it probably means she actually agrees with her. Also if she seems a people pleaser or has "no backbone" whatever that means maybe that explains why she's agreeable to your arrangements of dates. Did she tell you she likes you or wants to commit to you? I assume no conversations of relationship or exclusivity had come up so she certain can and probably will continue to talk with other guys. Now, constantly taking their phone calls unless it's an emergency during your dates sounds rude. Especially since you are still in the first few dates and it's not like you're spending all day/weekend together. If you are having doubts about her character after three dates it's probably not worth pursuing further. It's not a bad thing to learn about this early. 

[smackie9]

I know you are fascinated by her beauty and see "potential" in her BUT her maturity is a little too low for you. Obviously you want to change that because you "know what's right"....well that isn't fair to her. She's still learning about life and she needs to learn things on her own. She likes that attention she gets from guys, and her friend, to her, is adventurous and exciting. I think the only real reason she is with you is because it boosts her ego to be able to be with someone that is older, more mature and so different from her world. She's just flattered.

So this is why we "date" to find out what they are really like, and how that behave etc. You are not liking any of what she is doing. You can't force someone to be something they are not, and that means a perfect GF to YOU. What you see is what you get. You can express your feelings to her about things, but I get a sense you will come off as controlling/insecure...and yes her friend will have an opinion about it too. Honestly I don't see anyone coming out of this as a winner.

[TheG]

Thank you guys for the inputs but yes I have realised from the comments and experience that maturity is the key concern here. The date with the friend was the 4th date. Also, just to clarify she did not want to bring the friend to the date, I suggested it. She even asked me if I was sure. I dont know if this changes much tho...

Also, if shes entertianing these guys outside of the phone calls I wonder how she is always available when I want to see her. 

There was a time when I asked her , her plans for the day and she said she had a class and would be free after the class. I was not trying to gauge her availbility but I think she thought I was. When I didnt follow up with a date request, her energy seemed switched off. I then said lets meet on that day and her energy was switched on again. So it seemed to me that she really enjoys being with me...

I will start confronting her about these issues now

[lostandhurt]

1 hour ago, TheG said:

I will start confronting her about these issues now

Uh no.  3 dates does not make a relationship.  Do not confront her about anything, just let her be who she is and see if that person is someone you want to continue to date.

  Like has been mentioned above the age gap is not an issue but the maturity is.  Think back when you and your buddies were her age.

 From what I read it seems she is just ho hum on her interest level for you from the very start so keep dating her and see how things go but you are not her father nor are you her teacher.  If you want to express how you feel about her taking calls while on a date with you that is fine but then it is up to her to consider your feelings and decide if she wants to change that behavior.

 Remember you are dating not in a committed relationship with this young woman so you be you and let her be who she is and see how it goes.  Trying to lock her down so other guys can't steal her away will blow up in your face.

Lost

[catfeeder]

1 hour ago, TheG said:

I will start confronting her about these issues now

Whoa! 'Confront' is a pretty strong word. I can understand mentioning that you prefer to send your incoming calls to voicemail when you're with her if she accepts another call again. Then see how she responds. But what else is there to confront?

Dating is about getting to know someone, not parenting them. We can decide whether we want to continue seeing them, but raising things like her maturity level isn't going to "grow her up," she's 23.

[Batya33]

28 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Whoa! 'Confront' is a pretty strong word. I can understand mentioning that you prefer to send your incoming calls to voicemail when you're with her if she accepts another call again. Then see how she responds. But what else is there to confront?

Dating is about getting to know someone, not parenting them. We can decide whether we want to continue seeing them, but raising things like her maturity level isn't going to "grow her up," she's 23.

This.  If  you feel you need to "confront" after 4 dates then know that there shouldn't be another date.

[TheG]

Thank you guys.

 

Update: I ended up not confronting her but i was less responsive in my conversations with her. I think she picked up the reduced energy from my side and gave me a phone call for the first time. She asked me to fetch her from her friends place. I fetched her and dropped her home. We spent about 30 mins in the car talking about our feelings towards each other. She said I need to be patient with her because of her traumas (trust issues) but she does like me.

I didnt mention the phone call issue yet becuase the mood wasnt set for that convo. We were holding hands. And I dropped her off. 

[TheG]

4 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Whoa! 'Confront' is a pretty strong word. I can understand mentioning that you prefer to send your incoming calls to voicemail when you're with her if she accepts another call again. Then see how she responds. But what else is there to confront?

Dating is about getting to know someone, not parenting them. We can decide whether we want to continue seeing them, but raising things like her maturity level isn't going to "grow her up," she's 23.

I was not going to confront her on maturity. I was going to confront her regarding her phone calls

[yogacat]

I agree that confront is a strong reaction. I feel a better way to approach it would just say how it makes you feel a bit uncomfortable when she gets those calls. If you want to have a strong, trusting relationship with someone, at some point there needs to be communication where you both are able to talk about how things make you feel without making the other person defensive. 

Albeit, I feel she is going to do whatever she wants and it's up to you if you're okay with that. If you want something more concrete and solid, she doesn't seem like the type to provide that right now.

[Andrina]

1 hour ago, TheG said:

She asked me to fetch her from her friends place. I fetched her and dropped her home.

Wow. More rudeness. Treating you like an unpaid taxi driver. She knows your attraction to her will keep you coming back for more of the same rudeness, using you for rides. 

 

15 hours ago, TheG said:

finally she decided that I should drop her and her best friend off at her best friends place.

1 hour ago, TheG said:

She said I need to be patient with her because of her traumas (trust issues) but she does like me.

Anybody spouting their emotional baggage should be avoided at all costs. When a person cannot date at a normal pace and can't be fully ready and open to what is involved in a healthy romance, they shouldn't be dating.

You're already building a positive fantasy of who you THINK she is after a measly 3 dates, grasping for straws that the good overrides the bad. And you're already placing more importance on this saying that you're dating her versus being a person you've gone on three dates with. I wouldn't even continue on with her from what you've written. What kind of relationship experience have you had in the past to not see all these red flags? And aren't you past the type of leisure activities she engages in? I'd rather eat glass.

[ShySoul]

15 hours ago, TheG said:

 Another strange thing is that she cant look me in the eyes and she says its because she is shy. 

the girl I'm dating seems to be a lightweight in terms of alcohol. So the combination of alcohol and her friend being there just showed me a different side of her. The biggest issue I picked up is that she doesnt have a back bone when it come to her friend... Her friend has a materialistic view on relationships which the girl I am dating didnt seem to have, but she was supporting her best friend's views. 

In fact she strikes me as a God fearing woman as we speak about Christian aspects alot and she tells me she is looking for a church as she has recently moved around (There are many more reasons why I have this view). 

Her parents divorced while she was young. She opened up to me about it and it seems that there are some traumas there. She did communicate that she spoke to her dad about therapy. 

This isn't an immature person. This is a shy person lacking confidence in herself. She has trouble saying no to people or making her own choices. She did the same thing with you when she lets you plan all the dates. Maybe she wants to be liked. Maybe she doesn't trust herself or believe in herself. Whatever the reason, she lets whoever is there become the top priority and doesn't speak for herself. So when she gets a call, she feels like she has to answer it. She doesn't think of how that appears, she just knows she better answer the call to not upset that person.

She isn't trying to lead anyone on. These guys may not even have any interest in her. They could just be friends sending causual messages. There is no need for you to worry or stress over it if she is showing interest and wanting to go out with you. Don't let potential jealousy/insecurity and judgements about her get in the way if overall things have been going well between the two of you.

Respect her and give her what she asked for - patience. Give her understanding and encouragement. Show her that she is great as the person she is and doesn't need to go along with someone else if that's not what she wants or believes. Help her to see the beauty within her and improve her self confidence. Doing so doesn't mean you are a teacher or babysitter. It means you care about her and want to support her. It means you are simply being a good person, a good friend, and potentially a good partner.

[ShySoul]

1 hour ago, TheG said:

I think she picked up the reduced energy from my side and gave me a phone call for the first time. She asked me to fetch her from her friends place. I fetched her and dropped her home. We spent about 30 mins in the car talking about our feelings towards each other. She said I need to be patient with her because of her traumas (trust issues) but she does like me.

This was her treating you as a friend, someone who she can rely on and trust if she needs something. That is a good thing and not a sign of rudeness. Friends, and romantic partners, help each other out.

We all have traumas and emotional baggage. If we disqualified everyone who was dealing with things from their past, then we would have to disqualify everyone and no one would ever get together. Don't judge her for it. I've been the same spot she is. I bet you have to. And I bet everyone has at some point.

People are quick to jump to conclusions based upon their own experiences and biases. People can want to lable someone they don't know. But you are the one there, dealing with her. You are the one who actually knows her and the kind of person she is. So what do you think?

Is she the kind of person to be rude to others? Are these really red flags that are a sign of danger? Or are these misunderstandings or quirks that can be worked out as you both get to know each other better?

Bottom line, do you like her? Do you want to see her more? Then do so. 

[Tinydance]

Well this is just my personal belief but I find it very rude when people answer calls or are on their phone a lot during a date or even while with friends. One of my friends is addicted to Reddit and I get that because I'm kind of addicted to this forum lol But he's actually on Reddit basically 24/7 while out to dinner or catching up with our group of friends. We'll be talking and he just takes out his phone and doesn't get off his phone or even look up. I don't think you should be answering calls either even with friends, unless the calls are important. I believe that when you've got plans with that person that you should focus on them and spend time with them.

Are you sure these calls are from guys? Can you hear the conversations? I find it really weird she'd answer calls from other guys literally on your dates. To me that actually shows that she's not that interested in you and doesn't care what you think. There's no way I'd answer calls from guys in front of someone I like because I'd be worried to lose that person. Another thing is she could just be immature and/or rude. Maybe she likes the attention. In any case, someone answering the phone a lot when we're hanging out would annoy me even from a friend.

I think unfortunately you don't know this girl that well yet. Maybe when she was drunk and acting transactional about relationships, maybe that was the real her. Maybe she does agree with her friend. Also if you clash with her friend, that's probably also not a good sign. This is her girl friend and she's not going anywhere. If you don't like their opinions or behaviours then your only choices are to accept them, or leave. You can't actually just come in as a new person and try to change their dynamics. 

[Batya33]

Agree with Andrina.  See her more if you want to be her unpaid therapist and rideshare driver.  She doesn't want to take it slow when it comes  to needing  you to come ASAP or on her schedule to chauffer her around.  Date people not projects, not people who you feel you need to "confront" like a stern parent figure.

[Tinydance]

4 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Agree with Andrina.  See her more if you want to be her unpaid therapist and rideshare driver.  She doesn't want to take it slow when it comes  to needing  you to come ASAP or on her schedule to chauffer her around.  Date people not projects, not people who you feel you need to "confront" like a stern parent figure.

I agree that if someone is acting rude or immature and you've only had a few dates, no point confronting. This girl is young but she's still an adult in her mid 20's. This is how she's acting and this is who she's friends with, what she thinks and believes. You can't confront someone about who they are. If you don't like it, you just don't associate with that person.

[ShySoul]

13 hours ago, TheG said:

 Also, just to clarify she did not want to bring the friend to the date, I suggested it. She even asked me if I was sure. 

Also, if shes entertianing these guys outside of the phone calls I wonder how she is always available when I want to see her.  

I then said lets meet on that day and her energy was switched on again. So it seemed to me that she really enjoys being with me...

In other words, she has made herself available to spend time with you. She wants to spend time with you. She is open to seeing you on your schedule. Doesn't sound like she is interested in anyone else, just you. So don't over think it.

People make mistakes. Everyone will say or do something rude at some point. Doesn't mean they are a rude or immature person. It could be a bad day or bad habit. They may not know they are doing it.

The mature response isn't to criticize or abandon. It is to have a calm and adult conversation. It is  acknowledge, forgive, and move past to focus on what really counts, the connection that either does or does not exist between you.

Also, having a friend along doesn't have to be a bad thing. It could mean someone likes you enough to 1. introduce you to friends 2. want a friends opinion on how well they think you fit together. Doesn't have to be a sign of rudeness.

Caring for someone and being there while they work out there feelings doesn't make you there driver or therapist. It is a sign you a good friend and a good man. It makes you the kind of man that gets the great relationships.

This woman, to me, sounds like a good person who is interested in you. You seem interested in her. I want both of you to be happy. I want both of you to not be alone. Keep seeing her. Talk over things as they happen. Have patience. And most of all have fun.

Hope it works out.

[MissCanuck]

I don't know, OP. 

I don't see this going well. It's only been a handful of dates and you're already noticing some things that don't sit well. 

This is why we have an innate sense of judgment, boundaries and standards for ourselves. Do as you wish, but keep in mind that she is not where you are (maturity-wise) That much is blatantly obvious. 

[ShySoul]

No one will ever match up perfectly. There will always be things that may annoy us. Couples married for decades will tell you that. But they didn't give up at the first hint of a problem. They work through things together. 

And despite a couple of rough spots, there also seems to be a lot of good. Use your judgement. Think about the positives instead of only focusing on the negatives. Try to address the negatives in a caring and sensitive manner. 

If you reject everyone the second they do something that doesn't sit right, its a surefire way to end up alone. And if you came to this site, I bet you don't want to be alone.

[MissCanuck]

5 hours ago, Tinydance said:

You can't confront someone about who they are. If you don't like it, you just don't associate with that person.

Also this, yes. 

You barely know this young lady. The early stages of dating are a good time to observe and see who is in front of us, without trying to nudge them into who we want them to be. See how they operate, observe the choices they make and the way they approach you and dating in general.

Then decide if it's worth investing more time and energy. 

[Kwothe28]

10 hours ago, TheG said:

She asked me to fetch her from her friends place. I fetched her and dropped her home.

No, no and no. Respect yourself more. If she wants to see you, you can schedule a date and talk, or call you to talk. But dont be that guy who is doing a favors for a women hoping they would like him. Its not attractive to them and has the opposite effect of them just not respecting you. You are not required to be her Uber ride and not even getting paid to do it. 

Also you are not required to be patient with her “emotional trauma”. While she goes out there partying and treats you with disrespect every time you take her out. You treat people who treat you kind with kindness. Not people who disrespect you by talking on the phone with other men during date, bring friends to a date, get drunk on it and require you to be their Uber driver.