Smothered and drained by a close friend, don't know how to deal with it anymore

[Anonymous]

This sounds like a horrible thing to complain about, but I cannot help how I feel. It's about a close friend of mine. She's making me want to push away from her but I feel guilty even for the fact that these things bother me.

When I first started talking to her online and met her in person last year, I couldn't believe how many things we had in common, and we felt close instantly. We bonded over being obsessed with the guitarist in our favorite band. We started messaging on Facebook all day, morning to night. But now it's been a year and I am not really into this anymore and it's hard to explain precisely why, I can only give examples. I'm still confused by it.

I am autistic and I am 99% sure she is autistic too, along with her daughter. We have had a lot of the same experiences in life, like being treated horribly by many people in our lives, and being miserable in our current situations, and going through perimenopause which is horrible for both of us. So it was nice to have someone to talk to about all of the same problems that we were both having. We tell each other EVERYTHING (even bodily problems, everything we ate that day, every little detail about our lives).

But now I feel like I can't handle this friendship anymore. She is draining and at first we bonded over our problems but now it's finally sucking me dry. I can barely get through life the way it is without having someone sucking more energy from me. She also seems to worship me to the point of it being cringey. I'll try to summarize the main points.

Some examples of things that seem off:

• She is always trying to copy me, buying the same things I buy even though she had never even heard of that thing before I mentioned it. When I mention specific foods, she will buy them right away and eat them too, often wants to eat them at the same time "together". 
• We're both in perimenopause and somehow her hot flashes come and go at the same time mine do. On for a few months, off for a few months, and whenever it happens for me, it is somehow also happening for her too. This is not the same thing as periods syncing when women live together; we are 4000 miles apart and perimenopause symptoms come and go randomly so I cannot believe when mine stop, hers stop, and when mine start, hers start. Every single time. 
• She had 2 life regression hypnosis sessions and in both of them she said that we were sisters. Mind you, we didn't even know each other until she was 55 and I was 51, yet somehow we are soul sisters all of a sudden.
• She won't go to bed until I do. There is a 6-hour time difference so she stays up until morning just to continue messaging me on Facebook.
• She seems obsessed with us both seeing the moon at the same time, and asks me every night if I can see it. I love the moon but damn! She gets a kick out of when I can see the moon even if she can't, and I don't even care that much.

Some examples of how she is draining to me:

• She comes to visit me for a week or two and for that entire time I have to be available to pick her up from the airport, hang out with her at the AirBnB, drive her to stores, and bring her back to the airport. One time her plane was delayed by a whole day and she wouldn't stay at a hotel so I had to drive 4 hours total round trip to bring her back to my house so she could sleep on my couch and back to the airport again. 
• She doesn't seem to respect my boundaries when I say I have a hard time doing things every single day she is here. I don't even want her to make this a yearly thing but she is already planning the next trip to be here for 2 weeks again! I told her I might be moving to a different city or working (no job right now) but she says she doesn't care, she'll still come. But I can't move and have a job and be there to drive her around for 2 weeks all at the same time! She is determined to come here every year whether or not I am available even though she is dependent on me to get anywhere because she doesn't have a license. So I feel extremely pressured. My car is 17 years old with problems I can't afford to fix and now I have to be her chauffeur whenever she wants to come here.
• She is usually complaining whether it's in person or in her FB messages. It's literally 90% being negative about something. She is usually in victim mentality mode retelling me over and over about all the horrible things she's experienced and usually describing what she calls "drama" when it was really just a small thing that happened like she couldn't find something or something fell on the floor. I don't know what to say to all of this "drama" and when it happens here, it puts my nervous system on edge. Regarding her problems, she has excuses/reasons for why she can't solve any of them. At this point I don't even know how to respond to her anymore because she continues to ignore my suggestions and keeps on complaining about problems that she has the power to solve.
• Before she comes here to visit, we talk about all the places we're gonna go, restaurants we're gonna eat at, things we're gonna do. But every time we end up doing hardly any of them because she gets overwhelmed and just wants to relax on the couch at the AirBnB, or her daughter can't eat gluten so we can't go to any restaurants (her daughter has come with her two of the 3 times), or she physically is unable to do something she claimed she "couldn't wait" to do. So I was all excited about these trips and 90% of the time all she wanted to do was sit on the couch.
• She is an extreme people pleaser even though she says she "used to be". She married a guy and had a kid with him only because his parents wanted them to. She puts up with daily toxic texts from one of her "friends" who makes her physically ill from the stress yet she refuses to block her number. It is draining to have to listen to her complain about the life that she chose and the friend that she allows to hurt her. We talk about this stuff every day for the entire year we've known each other. I just have no more energy left in me to know what to even say anymore. She refuses to block her number. She refuses to get a divorce. She refuses to get a drivers license. She refuses to get a job.

I cannot spend the rest of my life listening to her complain about her life. I feel like a jerk for this but I have diagnosed anxiety and depression along with Autism so I am not in the right place mentally to handle someone else's problems on top of my own.

I can't just tell her she can't come here anymore because then I would be taking away the only thing that she lives for in life. I don't want to end our friendship because she has been there for me when even my best friend has not been. So it's not that I want to end our friendship (which would crush her, honestly), but I just feel like something is off about all of this and I feel smothered and I don't know how to deal with it.

[Batya33]

So as you can see - it's never really all one way in a close friendship right - so it makes these sorts of decisions harder -I hear that in what you wrote.

Before she had you to visit and overwhelm you she lived her life - so apparently this is not the only thing she's lived for long term.

I have a friend -a good friend - who to me anyway has made lame excuses about why she doesn't exercise/get a job (she is a SAHM so it would be a part time job), and on and on.  I only give unsolicited advice when (1) the person actually doesn't know the information and I know that (which comes up more often in parent-child of course); or (2) it's really just a dangerous situation.  Then I prioritize safety.

So she sees that I do work, I do exercise and I'm careful not to talk about that much because I don't want her to feel like somehow I'm "better" because I do these things.

I bring this up because in the last month or so -all on her own -she's started doing daily brisk walks - and -she likes it -and she's now starting to stick to a routine.  When she tells me I say "that's great" and I'll add if I think it was particularly nice out. I never ask her how fast or how long -again I want to tread lightly-pun intended.  But -you know -I'm surprised she is now sticking to a routine -it's impressive -and it shows me people can change (we are in our 50s).  So - maybe there is similar hope for your friend but I think what would help perhaps is you start being much clearer in your boundaries -about visiting, about how much time you can spend on the phone, etc.  She has to sort of wean herself off her dependence.

Now look I would totally support you cutting her off and I hear that while  she is draining you're not at that point to completely cut her off.  So I'd try one more time to assert boundaries and ask  yourself -have you been direct and clear enough? 

I also would say directly "yes, you feel badly because as you were racing to the phone you stubbed your toe and then the caller hung up anyway - that sounds frustrating."  Then I would say "tell me something good that happened today -something you are appreciative of" -if there is silence you share something like that -see if she will follow a lead of changing the subject and changing it to something more pleasant.

You can tell her with I statements "I've kind of used up my quota today of hearing about negative stuff -can we talk about something else?" 

Also other than the shared perimenopaus stuff and the negative stuff -do  you laugh together- do you have other things in common? If she won't go out and do an activity say "I can hang out for __ amount of time at your AirBnB and then I'm going to go to [errand or activity or whatever] -you are welcome to come with me to the store or if not fine and I'll see  you tomorrow.

You are one of the people in this so I'm trying to figure out how you communicate your feelings and boundaries.  

All the best to you -it is hard!

[Cherylyn]

Your friend is an energy vampire.  In other words,  she's draining you.  😠

You could enforce strict boundaries with her but don't be surprised if she disagrees with you and doesn't abide by your reasonable rules.  Most people are set in their ways including habits not compatible with yours.  😒

All of my local,  very close friends and I have common sense boundaries.  We're very close yet we don't bother each other excessively which is how it should be.  We have discretion.

She will not change for you.  The only change comes from you.  End the friendship.  Send her a text which says this:  "It's time to go our separate ways.  Please do not contact me anymore.  Thank you in advance for respecting and honoring my request.  I wish you all the best.  Sincerely,  Your Name."  You don't need to complain and explain.  If she continues to be relentless,  delete and block her on your phone and social media.

 

[Seraphim]

Maybe it is Autistic burnout . My son is Autistic and he is pretty peopled out by most experiences. 
 

I would tell her that you are experiencing Autistic burnout and you need to be alone to get better . 

[Tinydance]

How old is her daughter? Is she under age or she's an adult? If she's over 18 then maybe you could just say you prefer just your friend time together just the two of you? Unless of course the daughter is more severely autistic and isn’t actually able to be left on her own. 

I'm not here to tell you what to do at all in your own life or who you should be friends with. I always say to anyone that a friendship or romantic relationship is a choice so you should be friends with people you truly want to be friends with. It’s not the same as having to work alongside a colleague at work where you have to interact with them and don't have a choice whether they're there or not.

Having said that, I believe that if some things are bothering you about a friend, it might be able to be resolved. Working it out so that they change some of their behaviours or maybe changing the situation. I don't think that you necessarily have to fully end the friendship and cut the person off in every case. Most people will have annoying things about them, we all do. Sometimes the way I'm friends with people just needs to be "tweaked" so that we both feel more comfortable with the friendship.

Have you spoken to your friend about how you feel and that it's not really your thing to talk 24/7? I mean, because you've been doing it for a few years, maybe she has no idea that you feel this way. Also sometimes autistic people struggle to read the tone or atmosphere correctly. It might be best to just be direct and honest with her. She might just not be getting the hint. I don't think it's necessary to talk to anyone as much as you talk to this friend. I think most people would find it too much and too smothering. You could dial it down and just talk only once or twice a week or something like that. If she wants this friendship to continue, she will need to listen to your feelings and adapt. If she can't actually do that then yeah maybe the friendship can't work.

In terms of her coming to visit you where you live. Maybe two weeks is too long and maybe needs to be more like one week. But then again if she only comes two weeks in a year, to me that doesn't seem like that much. To be honest if I was coming especially to see only one good friend and I paid for flights and accommodation, I would expect to actually spend substantial time with that friend there. I mean, she's spending a lot of money to come to see you. If you don't want her to come that's how you feel. In that case maybe just tell her honestly that you don't want her to come. But I think it's a bit rude to say that she can come to your city but then try not to see her much because she came there specifically to spend time with YOU. I don't know where you live but in my city any hotel or Air b n B costs a lot, it's all very expensive. And she doesn't stay at your place so it's not like she's putting you out in that way or in your face literally 24/7.

Also I totally get it's annoying if you made plans and she doesn't always follow through. Maybe what the problem is that you are both autistic and it sort of becomes a clash. Often people who are autistic get very stressed if plans get changed and things become out of order. But at the same time they can get a sensory overload and feel overwhelmed or apprehensive about going to a loud place. E.g. Going to eat in a restaurant. From having dated people on the spectrum or having  autistic friends, some of them had to leave an event or go to another room or outside due to the sensory overload. If your friend struggles with something like this then it might help you to be more understanding and allow her some grace. 

 

[Rockchick26]

21 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I apologize if the formatting of this message shows up wrong, I have never used this site before and I am not familiar with this site's method of quoting!

Quote

Before she had you to visit and overwhelm you she lived her life - so apparently this is not the only thing she's lived for long term.

Well, this is a hard one to answer because just because someone keeps themselves alive doesn't mean that they have anything to live for. She loves her daughter but she never wanted to become a mother or a wife and is miserable because she made this choice feeling pressured by friends and her husband's family, so she hates her life. She says that she cries multiple times a day.

Quote

 

So - maybe there is similar hope for your friend but I think what would help perhaps is you start being much clearer in your boundaries -about visiting, about how much time you can spend on the phone, etc.  She has to sort of wean herself off her dependence.

Now look I would totally support you cutting her off and I hear that while  she is draining you're not at that point to completely cut her off.  So I'd try one more time to assert boundaries and ask  yourself -have you been direct and clear enough? 

 

I probably have not been direct and clear enough in that way, but I did tell her that every day I am stressed out just thinking about all the things that could go wrong when she comes here. I told her, what if something were to happen to my car, or to me? I am the only person that she knows in this country. She is 100% dependent on me, she even said that she wouldn't know what to do if she had a medical emergency here. That puts a lot of pressure on me because I don't even know what I would do in a medical emergency, I have not been to the doctor in 25 years. I have told her that I get stressed out when I am driving in unfamiliar places. So she knows that I freak out about all of these things and she responded by saying that she freaks out about them too but she needs to come here for her Mental Health so basically she makes it sound like it's all worth it. I also have told her that doing things that many days in a row is stressful but she knows that because we talk about that all the time, both of us are the same way, we only do one or two things each week (meaning how many times we actually leave the house). But yet she still feels like those rules don't apply when she is here, apparently. Originally she came here to spend time with me so it would have been silly to leave her sit there by herself most of the time. But now she loves the place that she stays at and it's more Home to her than her actual home. So I think that this next time she will be fine staying there without me a couple of the days but she knows I have no excuses, I don't have a job, I don't have a partner, I don't have kids, I am just home all day so I don't know what I can say to excuse myself from being there everyday.

Quote

 

I also would say directly "yes, you feel badly because as you were racing to the phone you stubbed your toe and then the caller hung up anyway - that sounds frustrating."  Then I would say "tell me something good that happened today -something you are appreciative of" -if there is silence you share something like that -see if she will follow a lead of changing the subject and changing it to something more pleasant.

You can tell her with I statements "I've kind of used up my quota today of hearing about negative stuff -can we talk about something else?" 

 

I've never felt comfortable being that direct, but what I have been doing is turning everything she is saying negative around and focusing on the good part of it, or I just don't comment on it at all, because honestly, I am out of words now, I literally don't even know what to say anymore when she complains about the same things day in and day out. You can only say "that sucks" so many times, you can only give them solutions that they reject so many times. In response to my paragraphs saying "you should block her number", she just tells me an update of what her friend texted her today and how much it is stressing her out, completely ignoring my suggestion to block her.

Quote

Also other than the shared perimenopaus stuff and the negative stuff -do  you laugh together- do you have other things in common?

Oh yes, we do laugh, and we do have things in common, the reason we met is because we have so many things in common. But it's not interests that keep a friendship together, it's also energetics. And her energy is so negative that it drags me down further than I already am with my own problems. And sometimes like I said her energy is so cringy with how she tries to get me to see all of the ways that we are so similar, it's like she's always trying to advertise that we are the best two friends that have ever existed or something, and it just makes me feel cringy. She was telling me that she loved me within four or five days of us even talking online, before we even met!

Thanks for your response!

 

[Rockchick26]

21 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

Your friend is an energy vampire.  In other words,  she's draining you.  😠

You could enforce strict boundaries with her but don't be surprised if she disagrees with you and doesn't abide by your reasonable rules.  Most people are set in their ways including habits not compatible with yours.  😒

All of my local,  very close friends and I have common sense boundaries.  We're very close yet we don't bother each other excessively which is how it should be.  We have discretion.

She will not change for you.  The only change comes from you.  End the friendship.  Send her a text which says this:  "It's time to go our separate ways.  Please do not contact me anymore.  Thank you in advance for respecting and honoring my request.  I wish you all the best.  Sincerely,  Your Name."  You don't need to complain and explain.  If she continues to be relentless,  delete and block her on your phone and social media.

 

I honestly don't think that I could actually do that. I have had many friends in my life that I have quit talking to but I have never done this, I just unfriended them or blocked them (on facebook), especially if that was our only way of communication. But with her, she knows my address, she's been to my place, she knows where my mom lives, she has my phone number, she has my email address, she has access to me on Twitter (which is actually how we first found each other), she has access to me on Discord in multiple chats that we have been in together, we're both in like 10 of the same Facebook groups, so it's not just a matter of cutting ties, because I would literally have to move somewhere else and completely erase my identity online. Also, I don't think I could live with the guilt knowing that I am taking away from her the number one thing that keeps her going. I don't know how many times she has told me that the only thing that keeps her going is knowing that she gets to come back here every year. She said it's the only time that she's ever been happy in her entire life. There has to be a better way than to just completely cut her off and erase my online identity and hope that she never comes to my house.

[Rockchick26]

21 hours ago, Seraphim said:

Maybe it is Autistic burnout . My son is Autistic and he is pretty peopled out by most experiences. 
 

I would tell her that you are experiencing Autistic burnout and you need to be alone to get better . 

Oh she knows I am in autistic burnout, that is why I quit my job 6 years ago. But if I did it before, she would question why I'm unable to do it now. She knows that I have enough energy to go to 4-day music festivals multiple times throughout the summer, so I can't really go to a bunch of those and then tell her that I don't have the energy to sit on the couch with her.

[Rockchick26]

21 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Quote

How old is her daughter? Is she under age or she's an adult? If she's over 18 then maybe you could just say you prefer just your friend time together just the two of you? Unless of course the daughter is more severely autistic and isn’t actually able to be left on her own. 

Her daughter just turned 18 when they were here in July, that's part of why they came here to celebrate her daughter's birthday. But she is not really capable of being on her own, she doesn't even sleep in her own bed, she sleeps with her mom (my friend). She even needs help styling her hair, and cooking.

Quote

Have you spoken to your friend about how you feel and that it's not really your thing to talk 24/7? I mean, because you've been doing it for a few years, maybe she has no idea that you feel this way.

I have expressed concern about this but I have probably worded it in a way that didn't really get the point across. What I've been trying to do is word things in a way that make her understand that this trip might not be possible every year. I told her that I'm going to try getting a job again and I might be moving (which is true, I am on the housing assistance list), and I also tell her how stressed out I am and it's a lot of responsibility that I don't like, driving them around and literally being the only person that she knows in this entire country. So I have told her that I worry about this all the time, what if something happens to me or my car? Her response is that she worries about this stuff too but that's not going to stop her because she has nothing in life to live for except coming here every year, this is the only time she's happy. So then that also puts more pressure on me that if I am not able to pick her up at the airport and bring her back and bring her to stores and anywhere else we go, then she will not have any reason to live. The thing is, it was fine the first two times, because the first time, we met in a different state at a concert so we were staying at the same hotel and I didn't have to drive her anywhere because she took the shuttle to and from the airport. But then the second time she came here it was only for a week and I was really excited because I thought we were going to be able to do a lot more stuff that we talked about. The third time she came here it was for a full two weeks so it was much worse. That's when I really started to change how I feel about the whole thing. Now she will not come for less than 2 weeks, she has already said this. She wants to come for her daughter's birthday again and she wants to come for this music festival that we went to this year so she wants to be here for both of those things every year which means 2 weeks every single time. So if I say no to this, I'm also going to feel guilty that her daughter will not have a good birthday. Her daughter has also said that she wants to come back here every year. Her daughter considers me like her aunt, she loves me so much. She told one of her teachers that I have changed her life. These two people have put me on such a pedestal and now I feel pressured into spending two weeks with them every year.

Quote

I don't think it's necessary to talk to anyone as much as you talk to this friend. I think most people would find it too much and too smothering. You could dial it down and just talk only once or twice a week or something like that. 

I think it's odd too, how much we chat. But neither one of us has jobs and I don't have a partner and she tries to avoid her husband as much as possible so we have used each other as an escape and as a way to vent about our lives that we hate. I loved messaging her this much back in the beginning but now the negative tone is starting to get to me because I'm actually trying to improve my life but she is not. So now that we have established this pattern, it's hard to explain why I want to send messages less often. I really don't want to deprive her of this escape that this is for her. I don't think there's any way that I can word this that will not hurt her feelings or make her cry because she cries over every little thing already. I really am trying to find a job, and I'm also trying to work on my online business and I keep telling her I need to spend more time doing that. The other thing is she sends me messages on Twitter, as well as Facebook. So I'm bouncing back and forth between the two of them all day long and that's definitely gotten overwhelming especially since now her daughter does it too (yes, both places, both of them!) I find myself making excuses for why I forget to check Twitter but this has been a habit and a pattern for the last year so it's making me look bad because it looks like I'm not thinking about her as much as she's thinking about me.

Quote

In terms of her coming to visit you where you live. Maybe two weeks is too long and maybe needs to be more like one week. But then again if she only comes two weeks in a year, to me that doesn't seem like that much. To be honest if I was coming especially to see only one good friend and I paid for flights and accommodation, I would expect to actually spend substantial time with that friend there. I mean, she's spending a lot of money to come to see you. If you don't want her to come that's how you feel. In that case maybe just tell her honestly that you don't want her to come. But I think it's a bit rude to say that she can come to your city but then try not to see her much because she came there specifically to spend time with YOU. I don't know where you live but in my city any hotel or Air b n B costs a lot, it's all very expensive. And she doesn't stay at your place so it's not like she's putting you out in that way or in your face literally 24/7.

 

She will not just stay here for one week anymore, because now she's got her daughter on board with this whole idea and her daughter's birthday is like a week and a half before this Festival that we went to this year and she wants to go to it again next year so in order to be here for both her daughter's birthday and the festival, she has to be here for two full weeks. Plus, she said one week away from home was not enough. About the money, I have repeatedly told her it doesn't seem fair that she's spending all this money to come and see me but she says it's worth it. But it's also mostly her husband's money, he pays for her flights and AirBnB here because he likes having the house to himself just as much as she likes not being there (they have a horrible marriage, hence all the unhappiness). So he already told her that every year he will pay for her to fly here. So now that's three people that are putting energy into this happening and I am outnumbered.

Quote

Also I totally get it's annoying if you made plans and she doesn't always follow through. Maybe what the problem is that you are both autistic and it sort of becomes a clash. Often people who are autistic get very stressed if plans get changed and things become out of order. But at the same time they can get a sensory overload and feel overwhelmed or apprehensive about going to a loud place. E.g. Going to eat in a restaurant. From having dated people on the spectrum or having  autistic friends, some of them had to leave an event or go to another room or outside due to the sensory overload. If your friend struggles with something like this then it might help you to be more understanding and allow her some grace. 

She did not have any of those issues when she was here, except for the first day right when she first got here, she hadn't slept in 24 hours and she needed food so we went to Walmart and it's very bright and loud in there and she got overwhelmed and said they had to leave even though she only had a few things in her cart. So then the next day I had to bring her back to the grocery store because she didn't have enough food. I completely understand if she doesn't want to go places, that's less driving for me. But I just didn't like sitting there and doing nothing, I absolutely hate sitting and this is why I avoid going to my mom's house too because all she wants to do is sit and watch TV and I can only handle that for maybe 2 hours. It would be fine if she would be okay at the Airbnb without me having to go there every day but she needs food so much, and every time she needs food I have to take her to the store and then her daughter wants to go to Target because that's her favorite store and we went to Target like 4 times and I was getting so sick of going there. I know this is an issue of me not being clear about my boundaries, but I feel bad because I'm the only person that they know here so if they have to go anywhere I'm the one that has to take them. And now it's both of them so I would feel bad saying to both of them that I need some time alone because they came here to see me. So I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Andrina]

You do list quite a bit of excuses, showing your way of dealing with such a problem is to want to bury your head in the sand versus being proactive and standing up for yourself by stating your own needs and sticking with your  boundaries. Sounds like there's not much you could do to have this barnacle friend be so angry with you that she'd stop being friends with you altogether, no matter what barriers you put up in certain avenues of your communication.

Where I would start if I didn't want to totally cut out a barnacle from my life? I'd tell her: People evolve, and I'm actually growing less fond of constant communication on the computer and phone, and I'm going to start limiting my talks to you for one hour every Sunday at (time of day). Even if she messages you on any of these FB groups, it doesn't mean you have to answer. 

Your concerns didn't faze her about her vacations by you. You just need to plain state that you will no longer be available to chauffeur her around for her vacation to your town and if she visits, you will meet up with her at her location on one and only one occasion. If that seems harsh, well, that's the way you have to be with someone who could care less that they are an imposition.

36 minutes ago, Rockchick26 said:

Her response is that she worries about this stuff too but that's not going to stop her because she has nothing in life to live for except coming here every year, this is the only time she's happy. So then that also puts more pressure on me that if I am not able to pick her up at the airport and bring her back and bring her to stores and anywhere else we go, then she will not have any reason to live.

However, I wouldn't even remain friends at all with someone who was obviously attempting to emotionally manipulate me like in your quote. It wouldn't matter how much she supported me in the past by listening to my woes. That would be a dealbreaker for any person possessing self-love if there ever was one. 

You've allowed yourself to get into this pickle and now you'll have to find a way out. No more excuses. Make a list of all the connections you have with her and begin with the easiest one to sever and each day, complete another task on your list. Nothing is impossible in life so don't use that psychology on yourself to avoid action.

[Tinydance]

19 minutes ago, Rockchick26 said:

 

OK so if you were drawing a flow chart of your friendship with this woman. The first box might be "Do I want to be friends with this woman?" If the answer is no, that's it. End of story. That's where the flow chart finishes. But if the answer is yes, the next box would probably be "How can I make this friendship work?"

Number one thing, you really don't need to be friends with someone just out of pity. At the end of the day, if you don't like her then she's being misled about your friendship. She seems codependent and maybe it's mostly that. But she seems to really like you a lot. Maybe she even thinks of you as her best friend. If you don't feel the same, that's OK..But if you don't really want to be friends then let her know. Don't lead her on and pretend that everything is fine just because you feel bad. Personally I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who secretly doesn't like me. I want real friends who do like me for me and actually enjoy my company. 

If you do actually want to continue being friends with her, then just be really honest about how you want the friendship to be. If she really values you and wants you in her life, then she needs to respect how you feel. Friendship is a two way street. It's not all just about her. It seems to me that it's now become more like a holiday getaway for her and her daughter. They don't stay at your place so I guess you can't really tell them not to come. If the husband can afford it and they enjoy the holiday, you can't exactly stop them.

However you don't have to constantly drive them around. You definitely need to set some very clear boundaries. Yes the daughter likes you but you aren't her mother. You don't actually need to make sure that the daughter can go wherever she wants, e.g. Target. Also why does the daughter act like a child? Is she severely autistic and/or disabled? Or is she just extremely coddled and codependent? In any case, she's not a kid, she's an adult. She can't just expect to be driven around on a whim so just say no.

If you're not interested in doing certain things they want to do, tell them directly. Just say: "Actually I'm not into XYZ. I won't be coming with you to XYZ. Please get public transport or an Uber there." I mean, yes this woman is autistic but presumably high functioning? She's married, raised a child and can catch a plane to another country/continent. Don't baby her and just tell it like it is. Give help on how to catch public transport or walk places and say they have to do it. Be very clear. If they don't like that, they are free not to come to see you. 

 

[Cherylyn]

1 hour ago, Rockchick26 said:

I honestly don't think that I could actually do that. I have had many friends in my life that I have quit talking to but I have never done this, I just unfriended them or blocked them (on facebook), especially if that was our only way of communication. But with her, she knows my address, she's been to my place, she knows where my mom lives, she has my phone number, she has my email address, she has access to me on Twitter (which is actually how we first found each other), she has access to me on Discord in multiple chats that we have been in together, we're both in like 10 of the same Facebook groups, so it's not just a matter of cutting ties, because I would literally have to move somewhere else and completely erase my identity online. Also, I don't think I could live with the guilt knowing that I am taking away from her the number one thing that keeps her going. I don't know how many times she has told me that the only thing that keeps her going is knowing that she gets to come back here every year. She said it's the only time that she's ever been happy in her entire life. There has to be a better way than to just completely cut her off and erase my online identity and hope that she never comes to my house.

Enforce healthy and strict boundaries.  Learn the power of saying, "No."  There is a way to drift apart from a person and fade away.  Decline a lot.  Sooner or later she'll get the message that you are no longer interested in cultivating,  nurturing and maintaining an abnormal friendship. 

[Batya33]

Please reread again and again what Tinydance and Andrina wrote.  Spot on.  To add -this doesn't sound like a friendship from how you described it especially how she expresses herself to you. It sounds like you are the caregiver and she is the patient/client/child however you want to describe it.

[Tinydance]

2 hours ago, Rockchick26 said:

I honestly don't think that I could actually do that. I have had many friends in my life that I have quit talking to but I have never done this, I just unfriended them or blocked them (on facebook), especially if that was our only way of communication. But with her, she knows my address, she's been to my place, she knows where my mom lives, she has my phone number, she has my email address, she has access to me on Twitter (which is actually how we first found each other), she has access to me on Discord in multiple chats that we have been in together, we're both in like 10 of the same Facebook groups, so it's not just a matter of cutting ties, because I would literally have to move somewhere else and completely erase my identity online. Also, I don't think I could live with the guilt knowing that I am taking away from her the number one thing that keeps her going. I don't know how many times she has told me that the only thing that keeps her going is knowing that she gets to come back here every year. She said it's the only time that she's ever been happy in her entire life. There has to be a better way than to just completely cut her off and erase my online identity and hope that she never comes to my house.

I feel like you're torn because she annoys you but on some level you actually still want to be friends. Being friends with someone largely online is actually much easier to cut off than in real life. You say goodbye and then you block the person on every platform. Even if you're in a lot of the same groups, they can't see you or speak to you. Did you genuinely not know that you can do that? Or you're actually looking for reasons to hold on to this friend?

[Batya33]

11 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I feel like you're torn because she annoys you but on some level you actually still want to be friends. Being friends with someone largely online is actually much easier to cut off than in real life. You say goodbye and then you block the person on every platform. Even if you're in a lot of the same groups, they can't see you or speak to you. Did you genuinely not know that you can do that? Or you're actually looking for reasons to hold on to this friend?

I think the OP wants to continue to interact with this person and may tell herself it's to be in a "friendship" but I think it's more about path of least resistance - it's easier to continue this unhealthy interaction since to end it -say "goodbye" is not something she is willing to do in a simple, direct effective way -and this person has shown she will not just go away with all the indirect stuff - and second I think in a way she needs this interaction as a way to affirm to herself that she is a good and thoughtful and kind person who is needed because this person has claimed she "needs" to visit, for example, for her mental health and "needs" all sorts of stuff that ends up burdening the OP.  

It's possible in the past this person was supportive of and there for the OP in a friendship way but I think that ship sailed a long time ago -I haven't seen where the OP is getting anything out of this interaction in a friendship way -that is any common sense definition of "playing nicely in the sandbox" reciprocity.

Before and during covid I was friendly with a very needy woman.  We had mutual friends but it was all online. Years earlier I'd offered to meet her in person as she wanted to and she came up with excuses as to why she couldn't come to my neighborhood and  that  was the only way at that time with my work and childcare I could meet (20 minute drive but she hated driving in traffic).  I helped her brainstorm new business ideas she had although too often she seemed to want me to give her $ and I made it clear-direct-simple- that I would not be donating $ to any gofundme or start up platform but I was happy to give her my time to brainstorm about her ideas.

During covid, post-vaccine she told me she was lonely, could she drive to my apartment (I guess traffic was no longer a thing?) and hang out for the day.  I explained to her again -we had a small apartment.  We were teleworking plus son was in virtual school in his room plus none of us was comfortable with the increased health risk.  She didn't stop there - said she'd just "be there" wouldn't bother us -needed human contact. I offered to meet her out for a walk in the park. 

No.  I basically told her - no - we're not set up for visitors at this time even just to hang out. It was REALLY awkward and took a few tries but that was it -we stayed in casual touch after and she moved away.

I found her insistence on the creepy side and I'm not one who goes for those Facebook memes 'my door is always open -come over and we'll make tea and chat" - um - nope - I can't and won't offer random visitors and I'm comfortable with my boundaries - I'm happy to take a walk/meet for coffee/run an errand  together. 

OP -I give this example because many would have been like "sure!!!! come over and hang out!!!" But who cares about many - stick to your own values and boundaries and with rare exception if you are direct/simple/concise people will respect you and most will respect you even more for it.

[TeeDee]

It sounds like this woman is so desperate for friendship & human contact that she will do anything for approval.  If she is on the spectrum she probably doesn't understand that she is over stepping.  

You need some boundaries.  Don't talk to her every day.  Tell her point blank that her next trip is inconvenient for you, that if you are around you will do certain things with & for her but not everything.  When you do talk encourage her to broaden her social circle.  

You don't have to start by cutting her off completely but you must power down & lower your contact. 

[Rockchick26]

16 hours ago, Tinydance said:

 

Quote

Quote

If you do actually want to continue being friends with her, then just be really honest about how you want the friendship to be.

I do want to continue our friendship, it's not like I want to stop talking to her completely, she has helped me immensely where nobody else has. For the majority of the time that I have known her, I have been grateful for our all-day messages. That is why this is such a tough situation to be in because I am getting something in return. It's just that the level of responsibility and negativity and stress is just getting to be too much for me.

Quote

However you don't have to constantly drive them around. You definitely need to set some very clear boundaries. Yes the daughter likes you but you aren't her mother. You don't actually need to make sure that the daughter can go wherever she wants, e.g. Target. Also why does the daughter act like a child? Is she severely autistic and/or disabled? Or is she just extremely coddled and codependent? In any case, she's not a kid, she's an adult. She can't just expect to be driven around on a whim so just say no.

Well, technically no I don't have to drive them around, but it's more complicated than that. If I went to another country and didn't know anybody and didn't have a lot of money, and I went to visit a friend and they just basically told me I was on my own, I would be pissed and I would stop talking to that friend. I don't want to be that cruel. I don't have a job, a partner, or kids, I have no reason not to do it and if I just say I don't want to that just makes me look like a bad person. Her daughter is not severely autistic but she is extremely delayed in her development, she still sleeps in the same bed with her mom (my friend), and refuses to sleep in her own bed. She even needs help styling her hair and taking a bath. There are three levels to autism, and she's probably in the middle I would guess. And my friend is closer to where I am (low support needs) but she's definitely more helpless than I am. She never learned how to drive and does not believe she is capable of holding a job again.

Quote

If you're not interested in doing certain things they want to do, tell them directly. Just say: "Actually I'm not into XYZ. I won't be coming with you to XYZ. Please get public transport or an Uber there." I mean, yes this woman is autistic but presumably high functioning? She's married, raised a child and can catch a plane to another country/continent. Don't baby her and just tell it like it is. Give help on how to catch public transport or walk places and say they have to do it.

There is no public transport here, and there are no Ubers anymore, they got rid of them in my state because of some contract thing. But I live in a small town and the nearest town from here is a half an hour in either direction so we are pretty in the middle of nowhere and if you don't have a vehicle, you just get a ride from somebody you know. Even the next towns over don't even have public transportation. But my friend could not afford an Uber even if they were here, her husband paid for the trip but he could not send them more money, she was running out of food so I had to go to the food shelf and get them some free food so there's no way she could have afforded an Uber to get everywhere. Yes, my friend would be considered high functioning but autistics hate that term because it makes it sound like we are capable of doing complicated things, but most days just getting through life is too hard, especially when you throw perimenopause into the mix which exacerbates everything. I don't know how she even made it here, honestly, when her flight was delayed she freaked out and started crying and called her husband and got mad at him because he couldn't help her.

Sorry this message is all messed up, I'm having trouble figuring out the quote thing!

 

[Rockchick26]

14 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I feel like you're torn because she annoys you but on some level you actually still want to be friends. Being friends with someone largely online is actually much easier to cut off than in real life. You say goodbye and then you block the person on every platform. Even if you're in a lot of the same groups, they can't see you or speak to you. Did you genuinely not know that you can do that? Or you're actually looking for reasons to hold on to this friend?

Oh yes, I still want to be friends, she has been a better friend to me than friends that I have had for 30 years! She is the only person I have ever known who will drop everything to message me when I am struggling. She knows the right thing to say and she always understands everything I am going through even if it's a situation she has never gone through herself. We also make each other laugh, it's not entirely bad, it's probably 85% negative and 15% supportive and us making each other laugh. But those numbers are not balanced enough for me, but I still do not want to end this friendship, of course. We had the best day of our lives together, and we both cried when we had to say goodbye, and that was after only spending a day and a half together! And it takes a lot to make me cry.

I know how to block people online, I've done it before. It's easy when it's just an online acquaintance, but she is much more than that. She calls me her soul sister and her daughter calls me her aunt and she tells me that I can call her my niece. Her daughter told her teacher that me coming into her life has completely changed her life for the better. These are not people that I just want to cut off with no explanation. 

[Rockchick26]

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Quote

It's possible in the past this person was supportive of and there for the OP in a friendship way but I think that ship sailed a long time ago -I haven't seen where the OP is getting anything out of this interaction in a friendship way

Nothing has changed there, she is still supportive and there for me, more than my friends of 30 years have been! I never said I wasn't getting anything out of this friendship, if I wasn't, it would be easy to end it or distance myself. She always helps me through every single day and asks me how my problems are even after I hadn't mentioned specific problems in a while. I don't want to lose this friendship. 

Quote

 

 

 

[Rockchick26]

1 hour ago, TeeDee said:

It sounds like this woman is so desperate for friendship & human contact that she will do anything for approval.  If she is on the spectrum she probably doesn't understand that she is over stepping.  

You need some boundaries.  Don't talk to her every day.  Tell her point blank that her next trip is inconvenient for you, that if you are around you will do certain things with & for her but not everything.  When you do talk encourage her to broaden her social circle.  

You don't have to start by cutting her off completely but you must power down & lower your contact. 

Yeah she is pretty desperate for friendship and human contact, she does have friends but one of them is toxic (extremely judgmental and controlling) and it makes her physically sick just when she texts her, so she ignores her and complains to me about it. Another friend, who is probably her best friend (besides me), is a caregiver for three disabled people in her family and she has literally no free time to spend with my friend. Another one of her friends is also toxic and is very selfish and only wants to talk about herself and they have nothing in common anymore. She has been treated horribly by every man in her life, too. When she met me, she told me I was the most wonderful person she had ever met in her life, and she was saying this after talking to me online for a few weeks. Her entire life is one traumatic event after another with people that were horrible to her. To her, I am a saint and she is always telling me how grateful she is that she knows me, and her daughter too. Her daughter told her teacher that when I came into her life, her life was completely changed for the better. Her daughter has also been treated horribly by people.

It's not that I don't want to talk to her everyday, I am getting something out of this too. I have often told her that I don't know where I would be if it weren't for her because my other friends are pretty toxic in their own ways, too plus I hate my life for other reasons. This is why we both need each other because we bond over talking about our problems.

I did tell her that I might have a job then and I might be moving then too, so I might actually have a real reason to not be 100% available for her but autistics have problems with lying and I have never been able to lie so there's no way I can just be sitting home doing nothing and be convincing that I can't drive to her because I literally would have no idea what to say or how to say it without it sounding fake.

[Batya33]

You've answered your own questions - you're not willing to do more than you are doing with boundaries and you've reminded yourself of what an awesome friend she is to you so take the good with the bad as they say.  Good luck!

[Tinydance]

4 hours ago, Batya33 said:

You've answered your own questions - you're not willing to do more than you are doing with boundaries and you've reminded yourself of what an awesome friend she is to you so take the good with the bad as they say.  Good luck!

Yeah. OP to be honest I felt a bit tired to read your messages but I don't mean that in a rude way. Like, I'm not trying to put you down or something. I just meant that in like a "this situation is exhausting" sort of way. Personally I think you could probably benefit from seeing a therapist.

Everything I'm reading from your post actually makes it sound like both you, this woman, and her daughter are extremely co-dependent. And honestly if you didn't already tell me that you are both in your 50's, I'd think you were both quite young. Like, teenagers or early 20's. You both seem to have very quickly projected onto each other what you wanted (i.e. comfort and a friend). But it got super intense from 0 to 100. Like, she's my soul sister, she's my BFF 4EVA, she's my everything. But you said you've only known this woman for one year! And in all honesty you've mostly just known her online. There's probably so much about her that you don't actually know still.

I believe that when someone constantly complains about everyone in their life and says they're basically ALL toxic, who is the common denominator here? How can every single person be toxic and horrible? My experience in life is that most people are actually nice. So it's either that she deliberately associates with people who are toxic by choice, or she's actually lying or exaggerating.

For example, my best friend seems to have changed a lot lately. She keeps calling everyone a narcissist for some reason. Her Mum, some of her friends, basically a lot of people. And I actually know some of these people and I didn't pick up on anything that they're a narcissist. And even when I said I had an argument with a friend, she was like: "They sound like a narcissist." But that friend isn't and the situation didn't point to them being a narcissist. 

I don't think that you should just 100% believe everything she tells you. It also seems to me that you're really inserting yourself in the middle of her issues. I mean, it's good to be a supportive friend and yes that's what a friend should be. But you seem to have taken all her problems onto yourself. She has a lot of issues, whether they are real or imagined. She seems to be in a very dysfunctional marriage with her husband. If he's her daughter's father then obviously they've been together for 18 + years. They come on the trip and they have literally no money to eat food and he doesn't send any??! Like what the f?! This is their husband and father and he won't even give them money to be able to eat? Just f'd up on so many levels.

To be honest I think you're doing the same thing. Complaining about her but not actually willing to do anything about it. I mean, you've said yourself very clearly what the situation about her coming to your town is. There's no public transport, no Uber, nothing nearby. The only way anyone can get around is by driving. So the only two things you can do is yes to drive them, or say to them don't come. You need to make a choice because everything else will just keep going around in circles.

Either you accept that this is your friend (by your own choice) and step up and just drive them and spend time with them. Or say they shouldn't come or only come for one week. I understand you have trouble lying but you don't even need to lie. Talking about your real feelings is fine. Just tell them exactly what you wrote here. "I have autistic burnout, I get tired doing so much 24/7, etc." Like if she's meant to be your BFF then what's so wrong about opening up about your real feelings?

[Andrina]

So are there any tidbits of advice you agree with from these detailed answers from many posters? And areas you will be working toward to change the dynamic between you and your friend?

If not, you're just continuing the behavior you and your friend indulge in: Non-constructive venting without any intent to fix what's broken.

[Rockchick26]

19 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Quote

Yeah. OP to be honest I felt a bit tired to read your messages but I don't mean that in a rude way. Like, I'm not trying to put you down or something. I just meant that in like a "this situation is exhausting" sort of way. Personally I think you could probably benefit from seeing a therapist.

This is why I wanted to ask for advice about it because I'm exhausted trying to deal with it! But this is also how I feel reading her messages! Only imagine this every single day for over a year! I was seeing a therapist for many years but I recently stopped because it was making me feel worse. But I did tell my therapist about her but my therapist was not helpful to me in any way so it didn't help at all.

 

Quote

Everything I'm reading from your post actually makes it sound like both you, this woman, and her daughter are extremely co-dependent.

I've always thought that dependent people are needy, but I don't feel needy, in fact I feel the opposite. I often fantasize about living in the woods and having nothing to do with other humans. If I was dependent on someone, I would not have the urge to get space from them. I do feel like she is dependent though, obviously, otherwise she would at least try to get a divorce and take control of her life. Obviously her daughter is dependent because she cannot support herself and she is still very much undeveloped as an adult, she's probably a level two autistic.

 

Quote

nd honestly if you didn't already tell me that you are both in your 50's, I'd think you were both quite young. Like, teenagers or early 20's.

Oh yeah, this one of the most common traits with autistic people. Most autistic people look and act younger than they are. We literally develop and learn everything about life much later, if ever. I even did a poll once in one of my autistic groups and asked people what age they feel like they are on the inside and most people said teenagers or 20 somethings! I always say that I feel 17 because that was before I actually became an adult. Neurotypical people think adulting is hard, try being autistic LOL we don't even feel like humans, let alone adults!

 

Quote

You both seem to have very quickly projected onto each other what you wanted (i.e. comfort and a friend). But it got super intense from 0 to 100. Like, she's my soul sister, she's my BFF 4EVA, she's my everything. But you said you've only known this woman for one year! And in all honesty you've mostly just known her online. There's probably so much about her that you don't actually know still.

I feel like it moved too fast too, but it was all her. I simply wanted someone to talk about my favorite band with, and my favorite member which is hers too. Before I knew it, she was saying I was the most wonderful person she'd ever met and she loved me and then a month or two later she was buying tickets to the concert that I was going to even though she had to fly out of the country which is something she had never done before. It was very weird to me at first but then we had the best day of our lives. As for knowing everything about each other, I would bet money that we do. We even tell each other when we masturbate and poop, lol she's more into this than I am though, I have actually stopped telling her because it's irrelevant and repetitive but she continues to tell me. Her messages to me are literally a play-by-play of everything that's happening in the moment, including every single observation and thought. Her messages are easily 25 to 30 paragraphs long, comprised of all the usual complaints and every detail about everything that is happening.

Quote

I believe that when someone constantly complains about everyone in their life and says they're basically ALL toxic, who is the common denominator here? How can every single person be toxic and horrible? My experience in life is that most people are actually nice. So it's either that she deliberately associates with people who are toxic by choice, or she's actually lying or exaggerating.

I normally agree with you. But honestly, the rules are different for autistic people. We are treated differently by everyone. I was teased and ostracized by classmates. My best friends bullied me and used me. Coworkers and bosses have been horrible to me, even all the way up until I quit working in my late 40s. She has had the same experiences, and she tells me in great detail all of them. I'm not saying that these people that have been horrible to us are completely evil, but these experiences are traumatic for autistic people. It does appear that autistic people choose to have these people around us but really it's just what happens no matter where we go. I cannot tell you how many friends I have had in my life, how many jobs, all of them have been toxic to me, no matter where I go or who I meet, the same stuff happens again. That is why I quit working and why I hardly ever hang out with people. So I believe her that what she is experiencing is real.

Quote

She seems to be in a very dysfunctional marriage with her husband. If he's her daughter's father then obviously they've been together for 18 + years. They come on the trip and they have literally no money to eat food and he doesn't send any??! Like what the f?! This is their husband and father and he won't even give them money to be able to eat? Just f'd up on so many levels.

Oh you don't even know the levels of dysfunction, she was physically and mentally abused by her father, her mother died young, and he had dysfunctional parents who bullied her (my friend) and rejected the daughter because they wanted a grandson, not a granddaughter. She married this guy because the man she was with previously was very manipulative and creeped her out and she wanted to be safe and secure with someone who could support her. But it wasn't love, it was a friendship that has been ruined now because of dysfunction. As for the money for food, he is supporting all three of them on one income, and they simply did not have any more money for food. One of the problems was the cost of gluten-free food is way more expensive over here than it is over in their country. I had no idea how much gluten-free food even was until they were here buying it. A regular frozen pizza is like three or four dollars but a gluten-free pizza was $12. Literally everything was at least triple the amount that normal food is. She said that she took pictures of the receipts and sent them to him and he just couldn't do anything about it. So she spent what little money they had left for food for her daughter and she skipped meals until I went to the Food Shelf for them. The food shelf had gluten-free food, thankfully.

 

Quote

To be honest I think you're doing the same thing. Complaining about her but not actually willing to do anything about it. I mean, you've said yourself very clearly what the situation about her coming to your town is. There's no public transport, no Uber, nothing nearby. The only way anyone can get around is by driving. So the only two things you can do is yes to drive them, or say to them don't come. You need to make a choice because everything else will just keep going around in circles.

How am I not willing to do anything about it when I am asking people for advice about it? I don't want to completely ghost her and stop being friends, that is not one of the options that I want to do. Why is it have to be one extreme or the other? I don't want to end our friendship but I also can't deal with it the way things are now. There has to be a solution that is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes. Also, my reason for posting wasn't just to complain, I know that this is a place where people have dealt with a lot of problems so I thought that there would be a lot of people who have had the same problem but who did not want to end their friendship. I want options, not to be told that I have to end of the friendship.

Quote

Either you accept that this is your friend (by your own choice) and step up and just drive them and spend time with them. Or say they shouldn't come or only come for one week. I understand you have trouble lying but you don't even need to lie. Talking about your real feelings is fine. Just tell them exactly what you wrote here. "I have autistic burnout, I get tired doing so much 24/7, etc." Like if she's meant to be your BFF then what's so wrong about opening up about your real feelings?

I would still be lying if I told her she can only come for a week, she knows that I could handle it before. She did say that we don't have to hang out every single day that she is here, but that doesn't mean that I still wouldn't have to drive them anywhere they needed to go, I might get one free day to myself but that's not solving the problem because I still have to pick them up from the airport and bring them everywhere they need to go and bring them back to the airport, which is an hour away so 2 hours of driving twice. As for the last thing you said, sometimes you have to refrain from telling people the truth because it will hurt them more than it will help them (or you). At this point she thinks I am a life saving saint and she would be lost without me, if I tell her that I can't handle her, I don't even know if I could properly explain how that would affect her. She would have extreme mental and physical dysfunction. This happens even with people that she complains about, so if someone like me were to pull the rug out from underneath her, it would completely ruin everything good about her life and I would feel guilty.

 

[Rockchick26]

19 hours ago, Andrina said:

So are there any tidbits of advice you agree with from these detailed answers from many posters? And areas you will be working toward to change the dynamic between you and your friend?

If not, you're just continuing the behavior you and your friend indulge in: Non-constructive venting without any intent to fix what's broken.

No I have not seen any tidbits of advice that I agree with, I have obviously thought of those already and they would not work for me. I don't want to do anything extreme, that is not my style and I don't feel comfortable doing it. I don't want to end the friendship, and that's what most people are telling me to do. People are also telling me to "just say no" but I have explained why it is more complicated than that. Not all advice works for everybody. I don't know why people are jumping to the conclusion that I don't want to fix this problem, if it were that simple to fix, I would have already done it.