Intense friendship - I can't tell if I am paranoid or he is bad news

[stelalala]

Two months ago I made a friend through an online community. He is a very intense person - always the center of attention, organizing activities and making new friends, and has absolutely no filter when speaking, especially when he's emotional. I found him to be very fascinating and I felt insanely comfortable around him. 

We moved pretty quickly, after just a few days we started having daily 4-hour phone calls and talked about meeting, and I noticed myself becoming more like him - more confident, more loud, just having fun. This also influenced my life outside of this friendship, I was happier and more active, got along better with coworkers and reallife friends and didn't worry as much.

However, he can also be really mean and selfish (never to me, but to other people) and we had 2 huge fights already. Each time I said that I wanted to end the friendship because I felt we weren't really as compatible as I thought - and each time I changed my mind because I felt bad for him, or like I should put more effort in or like I was throwing the friendship away over nothing. Now we're at fight number 3 and mutual friends are telling me that I am emotionally depended on him and that he isn't good for me, and I just feel so guilty and like I am not trying hard enough to be his friend. 

And the thing is, he definitely has some huge flaws, but he's also one of the most honest and passionate people I know and I like that I can be equally crazy and he still wants me in his life. While I feel like I am too much, too weird or otherwise not enough with literally everyone else. But that makes me think that I should be with people who calm me down, not amplify my own weaknesses. Any thoughts so far? I am happy to provide details and examples

 

[Batya33]

Why would you need to know anything more than this person chooses not to have a filter even when it hurts others including you? We all are tempted to blurt out stuff when we're emotional but adults -meaning we cut children slack to a certain extent -they are maturing etc - who want to treat others with kindness, compassion, thoughtfulness as a default -desire to use and choose their words with care no matter how they are feeling -or if they are feeling a certain way they stay silent to avoid hurting someone's feelings unncessarily.

That's great that he has strengths surrounding planning events, connecting people -so keep your distance and attend his events if you wish and meet people who behave in a reasonable way -reasonably mature/thoughtful/kind.  

If you feel you are too quirky/weird you have options other than hanging out with a person who acts like a jerk. You can - learn better social skills either by reading books, going to classes, going to therapy, etc.  You can choose to prioritize acting just as you feel -crazy and weird and accept that it will be harder to find your people.  You'll have to put in more effort and often there are activities and interests that draw in people who tend to be more quirky.  I had to learn better social skills in my early 30s (I am 58) because for me being too chatty often got me into awkward situations and people didn't trust me as much -not because I gosspied but people who are very chatty often are viewed as potentially indiscreet even if they're just oversharing or overtaking about their own stuff. 

Also I had to learn better listening skills.  I did so -I still am very attune to how I treat people how I interact etc - it's effort as opposed to the guy you're interacting with who is so self-absorbed -you call it "intense" that as long as he's enjoying blurting out whatever in the world he cares to at the moment and who the heck cares if it offends anyone - doesn't care to put in any real effort to treat others with kindness and compassion and basic -manners and common sense.

Most new friends don't have "fights" and it's obvious why you two have been -because it's his way or the high way -he doesn't care if you are hurt or offended or upset by something he said - he cares about himself and being the center of attention take it or leave it.

4 hour phone calls aren't a great idea with any new person - it's too much too soon IMO.

You can do better.  It's better to be on your own than interact with a jerk.

[yogacat]

Anytime someone feels bad or guilty about ending something that may not necessarily be 100% healthy for them, my advice is: end it.

This person is causing you stress and making you feel guilty or dependent, that's your que to extract yourself from their life. If they were constantly making you feel happy, fulfilled, and loved, you wouldn't have these doubts. And it's not your responsibility to change them or fix their flaws. 

[ShySoul]

The problem with such an outgoing extrovert with no filters is just that... they have no filters. It's not that you aren't trying hard enough. It's not you, that is simple who they are. The good side to this is the honesty and passion. You know where you both stand. You know he you can have a good time and that he will plan and do things. And that's all great. But with the good comes the bad. The person isn't going to sugercoat things and will say what is on their mind, no matter what it is. This inevitable leads to fights. It leads to moments of him putting himself first.

A person like that will be a constant rollercoaster. The highs will be more intense, but so will the lows. Some people can thrive with that kind of intense push and pull. They can feed off the drama. Others will find it too draining.

Do you think you can handle this kind of person? Are you okay knowing there will probably be a steady stream of arguements? Or does this sound too stressful for you? If you feel guilty, it's probably a sign this isn't right for you. 

9 hours ago, stelalala said:

While I feel like I am too much, too weird or otherwise not enough with literally everyone else.

Just my opinion, put someone who calls themself weird I usually find to be a pretty awesome person. 😉

Think this is the real issues here. You feel like you can't be yourself around others, like you aren't good enough. But this person is able to draw you out and get you comfortable to let loose. So you feel a connection with him and don't want to lose that. You want to be the more confident person he lets you be, but don't know how to without him. So you tolerate things you may not like from him.

True strength and happiness comes from within. You can't find it in him or in anyone else. It's about believing in yourself and focusing on the positive qualities you have. It's embracing all aspects of you - no matter how weird, too much, or not enough you may think they are. And it's focusing on things that make you happy. When you do that, you can naturally get the confidence you seek and will be the person you want to be.

[SophiaG]

10 hours ago, stelalala said:

However, he can also be really mean and selfish (never to me, but to other people) and we had 2 huge fights already. Each time I said that I wanted to end the friendship because I felt we weren't really as compatible as I thought - and each time I changed my mind because I felt bad for him, or like I should put more effort in or like I was throwing the friendship away over nothing. Now we're at fight number 3

What are those fights about? If you are both adults I just can’t imagine a good friendship with 3 big fights in two months - even teenage friendships are usually more stable than that. You should not need to “try hard” to be someone’s friend especially for someone you’ve only known for two months. Friendships usually develop naturally and conflicts like you described seem to suggest you two don’t really get along. You can’t stay friends for long with someone like that.

[Cherylyn]

Being more loud is not an attribute and after a while being a loud person grows obnoxious,  tiresome and eventually looked upon with disdain.  😒  Being loud is not worth emulating.  Just because your friend is this way,  it doesn't mean you have to copy him in order to be well liked.  There are other ways to be well liked,  admired and respected than being loud and boisterous.   Actually,  poise (without being dour,  of course) is considered gracious behavior. 

An emotionally charged person who doesn't have a filter is an alarming red flag.  I have people in my midst namely some relatives and in-laws in particular who don't have a filter.  It's problematic because having no filter means no self control which causes a lot of troubles during interactions and all relationships.  Not having a filter means not thinking before speaking and writing and will have harsh consequences. 

Being mean and selfish are traits of a narcissist.  Narcissists lack empathy. 

Fighting is not a good sign for you.  Don't feel bad for him.  He's a big boy and responsible for himself.  You're not responsible for anything to do with him.  He has his own life as should you.  Your friends are right.  He's not good for you,  a very bad influence.  Don't feel guilty for not trying hard enough to be his friend which is gaslighting yourself.  Gaslighting is changing your perception of the facts.  Reign yourself back in.  Don't brainwash yourself into thinking it's about you.  Get back to the facts.  This is about him and his incurable mentally ill defects.  Narcissism is a serious mental disorder for which there is no cure.  

Who cares if he's honest and passionate?  It's his intolerable and unacceptable flaws which override everything else about him.  I've known very smart people but their personalities and characters are despicable.  They're jerks.  I don't want to be with them anymore,  therefore,  I choose not to be with them.  Those are my thoughts.

[HeartGoesOn]

I may have missed this, but have you met in person yet?

[stelalala]

Thank you all for your insightful replies. Before I get to that, I have an update. I had written him a long message about how I felt about the fight - which he did see but has not replied to. I waited 24 hours and then unfriended him on the platform where we were speaking. I have no idea if he was too mad to reply, if he wanted to give me space or if he doesn't care about me as much as I thought he did. That was yesterday and I feel absolutely awful, like my heart was torn out of my chest and I keep debating if I should reach out to him again.

 

20 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Most new friends don't have "fights" and it's obvious why you two have been -because it's his way or the high way -he doesn't care if you are hurt or offended or upset by something he said - he cares about himself and being the center of attention take it or leave it.

4 hour phone calls aren't a great idea with any new person - it's too much too soon IMO.

You can do better.  It's better to be on your own than interact with a jerk.

You are very right. It's just, I have been trying to find such close friends for the past 5 years or so. I have met many incredibly people but no one was as crazy about me as I was about them. I know this sounds weird since we are talking about friendships only - but I am also a very emotional person and even after being out of school for so long I just can't get used to talking to my friends only a few times a week instead of every day. And there was this person who felt the same painful loneliness as me and was instantly ready to chat for hours.

12 hours ago, yogacat said:

Anytime someone feels bad or guilty about ending something that may not necessarily be 100% healthy for them, my advice is: end it.

This person is causing you stress and making you feel guilty or dependent, that's your que to extract yourself from their life. If they were constantly making you feel happy, fulfilled, and loved, you wouldn't have these doubts. And it's not your responsibility to change them or fix their flaws. 

That is very true. But I also feel like every person in my life, even the really good and healthy people have made me feel guilty and dependent. It's more a character flaw of mine... And I know I am not responsible for his flaws, but I was in a similar position myself and I wish someone would have said to me, I will be by your side every step of the way and help you be a better person.

11 hours ago, ShySoul said:

The problem with such an outgoing extrovert with no filters is just that... they have no filters. It's not that you aren't trying hard enough. It's not you, that is simple who they are. The good side to this is the honesty and passion. You know where you both stand. You know he you can have a good time and that he will plan and do things. And that's all great. But with the good comes the bad. The person isn't going to sugercoat things and will say what is on their mind, no matter what it is. This inevitable leads to fights. It leads to moments of him putting himself first.

A person like that will be a constant rollercoaster. The highs will be more intense, but so will the lows. Some people can thrive with that kind of intense push and pull. They can feed off the drama. Others will find it too draining.

Do you think you can handle this kind of person? Are you okay knowing there will probably be a steady stream of arguements? Or does this sound too stressful for you? If you feel guilty, it's probably a sign this isn't right for you. 

Just my opinion, put someone who calls themself weird I usually find to be a pretty awesome person. 😉

Think this is the real issues here. You feel like you can't be yourself around others, like you aren't good enough. But this person is able to draw you out and get you comfortable to let loose. So you feel a connection with him and don't want to lose that. You want to be the more confident person he lets you be, but don't know how to without him. So you tolerate things you may not like from him.

True strength and happiness comes from within. You can't find it in him or in anyone else. It's about believing in yourself and focusing on the positive qualities you have. It's embracing all aspects of you - no matter how weird, too much, or not enough you may think they are. And it's focusing on things that make you happy. When you do that, you can naturally get the confidence you seek and will be the person you want to be.

Regarding your rollercoaster analogy, I honestly don't think I can do this. But I tend to create drama myself and I've had kind of a love-hate-relationship with most of my friends and I am inclined to believe that this isn't entirely his fault, just the result of two overly emotional people taking out their issues on each other. 

10 hours ago, SophiaG said:

What are those fights about? If you are both adults I just can’t imagine a good friendship with 3 big fights in two months - even teenage friendships are usually more stable than that. You should not need to “try hard” to be someone’s friend especially for someone you’ve only known for two months. Friendships usually develop naturally and conflicts like you described seem to suggest you two don’t really get along. You can’t stay friends for long with someone like that.

We have different values and political views. He like arguments and discussions and I just shut down when I disagree with something.

9 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

Being more loud is not an attribute and after a while being a loud person grows obnoxious,  tiresome and eventually looked upon with disdain.  😒  Being loud is not worth emulating.  Just because your friend is this way,  it doesn't mean you have to copy him in order to be well liked.  There are other ways to be well liked,  admired and respected than being loud and boisterous.   Actually,  poise (without being dour,  of course) is considered gracious behavior. 

An emotionally charged person who doesn't have a filter is an alarming red flag.  I have people in my midst namely some relatives and in-laws in particular who don't have a filter.  It's problematic because having no filter means no self control which causes a lot of troubles during interactions and all relationships.  Not having a filter means not thinking before speaking and writing and will have harsh consequences. 

Being mean and selfish are traits of a narcissist.  Narcissists lack empathy. 

Fighting is not a good sign for you.  Don't feel bad for him.  He's a big boy and responsible for himself.  You're not responsible for anything to do with him.  He has his own life as should you.  Your friends are right.  He's not good for you,  a very bad influence.  Don't feel guilty for not trying hard enough to be his friend which is gaslighting yourself.  Gaslighting is changing your perception of the facts.  Reign yourself back in.  Don't brainwash yourself into thinking it's about you.  Get back to the facts.  This is about him and his incurable mentally ill defects.  Narcissism is a serious mental disorder for which there is no cure.  

Who cares if he's honest and passionate?  It's his intolerable and unacceptable flaws which override everything else about him.  I've known very smart people but their personalities and characters are despicable.  They're jerks.  I don't want to be with them anymore,  therefore,  I choose not to be with them.  Those are my thoughts.

You are very correct. I am just so attached to him and he made me believe that I could turn him into a better person. And I have no idea if that was him manipulating me or him being vulnerable.

7 hours ago, HeartGoesOn said:

I may have missed this, but have you met in person yet?

No, we have not. We were going to soon, but now that I broke off contact that will not happen. So I have no idea what he is like in reallife. 

[Kwothe28]

23 hours ago, stelalala said:

But that makes me think that I should be with people who calm me down, not amplify my own weaknesses.

In a way. We have a saying here: You are the one with who you hang out. Its not a coincidence that you think of him as soke friend when you didnt even see his face. Because your own psyche pushes you to people like him. And not to somebody who would calm you down. And you should fix that first before you go into this kind of situations. 

Also you havent even met and you had 3 fights. This is not something you should indulge yourself with anymore.

[Cherylyn]

I was you back in the day.  I was in hero mode.  I took waif types under my wing,  showered them with my time,  attention,  gifts,  praise,  poured all my heart and soul into them,  tried to fix them or at least tried so hard to make them happy at my expense.  I felt sorry for the unfortunate;  namely some extended relatives and a former neighbor. 

I'm no longer in the "I have to save the world" mentality.  You can't repair people nor make their lives better.  You can't change how they think,  their mental circumstances,  life's situations,  current conditions or any of it.  It's not within your domain nor ability to succeed in doing do.  It's all an effort in futility.  😒

People are responsible for their own lot in life and whatever cards they were dealt with.  You are not capable of holding their woes for them.  You're wasting your energy.

The best thing to do is to focus on bettering your own life,  pamper yourself,  concentrate on your overall well being and only associate with well adjusted,  mentally sound,  very moral people.  Everyone else has to work it out amongst themselves.  Being in hero mode for others is way overrated,  impractical and unrealistic.  Been there,  done that.  🤔

At first,  it's an adjustment to release certain sad people from your life but as days,  weeks,  months and years whiz by,  you will find your new normal.  It is less stressful and your mental and physical health will benefit.  Suddenly you'll discover more time for yourself and what you need to do to make your life better. 

Whenever I look around me and observe content people,  I've noticed how smart they are.  They deliberately don't get tangled up with weird people.  They're very selective regarding whom they prefer to associate with.  They tend to lead normal lives and I want to be one of them so I do it.  It's refreshing and eliminates my stress.  👍😊

Naivete doesn't pay.

[Batya33]

11 hours ago, stelalala said:

You are very right. It's just, I have been trying to find such close friends for the past 5 years or so. I have met many incredibly people but no one was as crazy about me as I was about them. I know this sounds weird since we are talking about friendships only - but I am also a very emotional person and even after being out of school for so long I just can't get used to talking to my friends only a few times a week instead of every day. And there was this person who felt the same painful loneliness as me and was instantly ready to chat for hours.

You seem to be very needy which is not a healthful basis to grow or even maintain a friendship.  I am a very emotional person too.  But it doesn't mean I need a friend to be my comfy blanket and chat with me for hours - if you're emotional then how do those emotions work as far as giving people space, as far as being supportive that the person has a life apart from you, other friends, other interests -you can be emotional and not needy -you can channel those emotions to celebrate with a friend when you reconnect and she tells you she got a promotion or got a second interview or finally had the flavor of ice cream she's been waiting for the gourmet ice cream store to stock? You seem to mean you are specifically emotional when you feel lonely and then you want others to be available to you to chat at length and whenever. 

If you are emotional can you find ways to express those emotions that can foster connections with typical friends -typical in that typical people can't chat for hours daily especially typical working adults who have responsibilities to family whether their parents, siblings, their own kids or fur babies.

[Andrina]

11 hours ago, stelalala said:

I know this sounds weird since we are talking about friendships only - but I am also a very emotional person and even after being out of school for so long I just can't get used to talking to my friends only a few times a week instead of every day. And there was this person who felt the same painful loneliness as me and was instantly ready to chat for hours.

It seems like you're staying stagnant and not progressing from the more youthful ways friends are in each other's pockets during the teen years, so often joined at the hip. With a lot more time to play and chat when parents are paying the bills and you don't yet have a serious partner, friendships before the adult stage of life are often more intense.

11 hours ago, stelalala said:

That is very true. But I also feel like every person in my life, even the really good and healthy people have made me feel guilty and dependent.

Well, I'm assuming they were putting up boundaries when your expectations exceeded the amount of time a person, one who actually likes you but doesn't have the wish to speak for hours nor daily, has to put the breaks on.

Most people need a healthy balance in life of all their priorities and responsibilities.

What's your daily life like? Do you work full time? Do you live alone and pay your own way in life, or do you still live with your parents? 

Friends are great to have, but you also have to learn to enjoy your own company without constant talk and constantly seeking out the attention and chatter with others. And your friends will seek you out for company if you're not overdoing it with them. They will start avoiding you if you ignore their requests for boundaries.

If you have four hour spans of free time, why not try volunteer work? There are plenty of opportunities where elderly people who don't have relatives to visit them in nursing homes, etc., will enjoy you visiting them and asking about their lives. That'll give friends a break from your neediness. 

[MissCanuck]

On 10/7/2024 at 1:01 PM, stelalala said:

he made me believe that I could turn him into a better person

Be careful with people who profess such things when they don't even know you in real life. It reeks of emotional manipulation. 

On 10/6/2024 at 1:29 PM, stelalala said:

He is a very intense person - always the center of attention, organizing activities and making new friends,

How do you know this when you haven't met him offline? It sounds like you only know the online version of him, so I am curious how you know the above to be true. 

On 10/6/2024 at 1:29 PM, stelalala said:

Now we're at fight number 3 and mutual friends are telling me that I am emotionally depended on him and that he isn't good for me

It souds like your mutual friends are right. Fighting this much with a friend as an adult is bad sign. Do you fight with other friends like this?

[Cherylyn]

He is bad news.   👎  ☹️  Steer clear. 

[Tinydance]

Well, to be honest I can probably see both sides of the story here. There are some people with very loud personalities who talk a lot, are blunt, and so on. Can you give examples in what way he was being mean to people or what your fights were about? If he was being hurtful to people then yeah that's not good. But I personally don't think someone is automatically bad only because they're a loud, outgoing person.

There are people who are blunt in the sense they say rude things but there are some people who are blunt in the sense they are open and honest. E.g. Some people will just stop hanging out with someone with bad body odour. But some people will just flat out say: "Hey sorry but I wanted to let you know you have bad body odour." I'm not sure what exactly this guy does or says but in my opinion not all bluntness or honesty is always bad.

I'm actually a very social, outgoing, talkative person. And maybe I'm more blunt because I don't sugar coat things. I've come across people who thought I was too much and didn't want to associate with me. But I've actually also come across people like my best friend who's shy and quiet and prefers people with my personality. We've been best friends for 14 years. She actually doesn't get along with other quiet people and finds it too awkward to be around them.

If you don't want to be friends with this guy then there's no obligation to be friends. You don't need to feel bad because friendship is a choice. Just be friends with people you want to be friends with. And it doesn't always mean there's something wrong with them, or with you.

However reading your posts, I was wondering whether you're actually "too much" too? You seem quite demanding of your friends' time. You said you talked to that guy for four hours every day. That is A LOT. Especially if you've only been friends for two months. You also said you want to talk to all your friends every day. I think that's also too much. Your friends aren't your partner so I think you need to give them some space and ability to live their own life.

And the fact that you unfriended that guy because he didn't reply for 24 hours was also pretty dramatic. Personally I think I'd feel suffocated by a friend who wants to talk to me for four hours every single day. I mean, people have a job, family, partner, other friends, hobbies. How are you expecting to be their only priority in life?

[Tinydance]

On 10/8/2024 at 10:00 AM, Batya33 said:

You seem to be very needy which is not a healthful basis to grow or even maintain a friendship.  I am a very emotional person too.  But it doesn't mean I need a friend to be my comfy blanket and chat with me for hours - if you're emotional then how do those emotions work as far as giving people space, as far as being supportive that the person has a life apart from you, other friends, other interests -you can be emotional and not needy -you can channel those emotions to celebrate with a friend when you reconnect and she tells you she got a promotion or got a second interview or finally had the flavor of ice cream she's been waiting for the gourmet ice cream store to stock? You seem to mean you are specifically emotional when you feel lonely and then you want others to be available to you to chat at length and whenever. 

If you are emotional can you find ways to express those emotions that can foster connections with typical friends -typical in that typical people can't chat for hours daily especially typical working adults who have responsibilities to family whether their parents, siblings, their own kids or fur babies.

100% all this. I actually hadn't read your comment properly and then basically said all the same things lol

[Tinydance]

On 10/7/2024 at 10:01 PM, stelalala said:

Thank you all for your insightful replies. Before I get to that, I have an update. I had written him a long message about how I felt about the fight - which he did see but has not replied to. I waited 24 hours and then unfriended him on the platform where we were speaking. I have no idea if he was too mad to reply, if he wanted to give me space or if he doesn't care about me as much as I thought he did. That was yesterday and I feel absolutely awful, like my heart was torn out of my chest and I keep debating if I should reach out to him again.

 

You are very right. It's just, I have been trying to find such close friends for the past 5 years or so. I have met many incredibly people but no one was as crazy about me as I was about them. I know this sounds weird since we are talking about friendships only - but I am also a very emotional person and even after being out of school for so long I just can't get used to talking to my friends only a few times a week instead of every day. And there was this person who felt the same painful loneliness as me and was instantly ready to chat for hours.

That is very true. But I also feel like every person in my life, even the really good and healthy people have made me feel guilty and dependent. It's more a character flaw of mine... And I know I am not responsible for his flaws, but I was in a similar position myself and I wish someone would have said to me, I will be by your side every step of the way and help you be a better person.

Regarding your rollercoaster analogy, I honestly don't think I can do this. But I tend to create drama myself and I've had kind of a love-hate-relationship with most of my friends and I am inclined to believe that this isn't entirely his fault, just the result of two overly emotional people taking out their issues on each other. 

We have different values and political views. He like arguments and discussions and I just shut down when I disagree with something.

You are very correct. I am just so attached to him and he made me believe that I could turn him into a better person. And I have no idea if that was him manipulating me or him being vulnerable.

No, we have not. We were going to soon, but now that I broke off contact that will not happen. So I have no idea what he is like in reallife. 

It's actually not your job to turn anyone into a "better person". Why are you talking to someone with the intention to change them? It doesn't really matter if he's good or bad. This is who he already is and that's who he's going to be. If you don't like him there is no pressure to be friends with him. But it's not your job to convince him he's too much, he's wrong, etc. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

It's actually not your job to turn anyone into a "better person". Why are you talking to someone with the intention to change them? It doesn't really matter if he's good or bad. This is who he already is and that's who he's going to be. If you don't like him there is no pressure to be friends with him. But it's not your job to convince him he's too much, he's wrong, etc. 

Or, in addition to maybe being "too much"  to convince him to have a filter and choose to be thoughtless and hurtful to people. Loud and talkative doesn't mean no filter especially not caring that he doesn't have one -or caring enough to change and stop hurting people around him.

I am a better person because of my husband and son.  They each inspire me in different ways. My choice not because I wanted my husband to have that role in my life. Other family members and friends have inspired me in this way too as have mentors. Mentors even aren't supposed  to have that role.  It's not the right dynamic or effective in the long run.  If this person the OP interacts with was already on a journey of personal growth and was inspired by her as a role model or with ideas on how to implement what he's learned fine -but that's not the dynamic as she describes it.