Best Response to Manipulation

[rainbowsandroses]

Hey guys, below is an interesting article discussing the best response when you feel you're being manipulated by your partner. 

Nos. 3 and 4 discusses ignoring and going silent, like say during an argument if/when you feel your partner is manipulating you, gaslighting etc.

Simply ignore, walk away, leave the room and go silent. 

The article explains why which makes sense to me.

There have been a few threads I've read where a poster is complaining because his/her partner shuts down a discussion or argument by going silent. 

And the poster's partner has received criticism for that, deeming it stonewalling or whatever.  I'm guilty of doing that myself!  

But what if the partner doing the "stonewalling" had felt manipulated during the argument or discussion? 

Even crying can be viewed as a manipulation by some people.  I've had boyfriends cry and admit a part of me did feel manipulated.

I'm really torn on this, what are your thoughts? 

Anyway below is the link. 

https://smallbusinessbonfire.com/8-ways-to-shut-down-a-manipulator-without-saying-a-word-according-to-psychology/

Thanks!

[yogacat]

I just called out a family member for stonewalling. They acknowledged it and I told them nice try 🤣

[ShySoul]

I'm always torn being something actually being manipulative and something been seen as manipulative. Any behavior could be used to maniplate someone. And it could also be an innocent act. A lot depends on the circumstance and people involved, so it can be hard to say. I've cried because I've been genuinely hurt and needed a person to be there for me. That was called out as being manipulative. I wonder if sometimes people are quick to label things because they have had bad experiences in the past. They are looking for manipulation and deceit, so are quicker to see it, even if it might not be there.

Though in terms of real manipulation, the best course is to stay neutral and disengage. Simply state that you aren't going to get into this right now and need time. Then walk away. Let cooler heads prevail and deal with it when things are calmer and both can be rational.

[rainbowsandroses]

10 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I just called out a family member for stonewalling. They acknowledged it and I told them nice try 🤣

Did you ask them why they went silent? 

Could they have felt manipulated even if that wasn't your intention?  Not accusing, just asking.

I have found often times I react in ways that could be deemed manipulative but I'm not aware of it. 

This is when I have always thought communication was key versus going silent. 

But reading the article discussing the benefits of going silent at least temporarily, it makes sense! 

[Batya33]

What I found most interesting was that the article did not mention romantic partners -maybe I missed a reference but the emphasis seemed to be on friends/coworkers etc.  This aligns with my thinking that if it gets to the point where one person feels they have to master any or all of these responses and regularly -I mean why be in a relationship like that? Certainly it can apply to a romantic relationship but unless it's a one off - I would hope it's not a typical situation in a romantic relationship.  

On a maybe lighter note this is why I can't stand those FB posts "I want to see who my friends are/I want to see who cares and if you do you will comment as so and so and paste this on your wall."  Puhhlleease.

I also think if one person is constantly concerned she will be or he will be attacked as being "manipulative" that's not good either.  Shows a lack of trust.

[yogacat]

6 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Did you ask them why they went silent? 

Could they have felt manipulated even if that wasn't your intention?  Not accusing, just asking.

I have found often times I react in ways that could be deemed manipulative but I'm not aware of it. 

This is when I have always thought communication was key versus going silent. 

But reading the article discussing the benefits of going silent at least temporarily, it makes sense! 

No. I had laid a ground rule and they did not meet me half way. So, my brother is on the verge of being homeless and my mother has offered for him to come over and do laundry at MY HOUSE that she has no part in our say in. I said, you can't just lay that on me and expect me to say yes. You need to talk to me first. And she got all pissy and I said, you can get pissy all you want I don't give two *****. And that was the end of it. Several days pass and I reached out to see how she was doing but she still being pissy over it. So fine. Bye.

[Kwothe28]

9 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

But what if the partner doing the "stonewalling" had felt manipulated during the argument or discussion? 

 

I often wondered if the other side perspective is different. We only get one side of the story here. While other can be completely different. OPs are also very unreliable narrators in some cases. Some stuff gets, intentionally or unintentionally, not written so we dont get wider picture. 

Anyway, as somebody who studied that science, I hate popular psychology. Everything is "manipulation", "toxic" etc. And tactics for dealing with it are dubious at best. Yes, ignoring can maybe help you. You know what else can help you? Not really associating with the person who is trying to manipulate you.

For example, one of examples is his friend asking for money. Which he interpret as manipulation and handled it by ignoring. Instead of, you know, just being assertive and say "No". Moreover, he claims it "saved their friendship". What friendship? When you claim you are being manipulated by your friend? Again, lots of "popular psychology" is just not good. Its made to be digestible by common people. Worst, its made by people who are self proclaimed experts. And not by people who studied the subject.

[rainbowsandroses]

Bat, I interpreted the article to mean generally, romantic partners, friends, family, etc. 

To me it makes no difference who is doing the manipulating and silencing.

It's still manipulation and silencing no matter how you slice and dice, imo. 

I put it in the Relationship section as I am interested in how others deal with it in their romantic relationship but it could be with anyone like in yogacat's situation which involved a family member. 

 

 

[Batya33]

12 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Bat, I interpreted the article to mean generally, romantic partners, friends, family, etc. 

To me it makes no difference who is doing the manipulating and silencing.

It's still manipulation and silencing no matter how you slice and dice, imo. 

I put it in the Relationship section as I am interested in how others deal with it in their romantic relationship but it could be with anyone like in yogacat's situation which involved a family member. 

 

 

Yes, I was simply observing what the article focused on and in my personal opinion I found that interesting and in line with what I wrote about being manipulated in a committed romantic relationship. The article didn't say it did not apply to romantic relationships.

To me it makes a difference because for example in a coworker situation there might be practical reasons you cannot walk away or not deal with the coworker who is behaving in a manipulative way.  Whereas romantic relationships are optional. 

I think it matters quite a bit because with rare exception people who choose to be in a committed romantic relationship -you referred to "partner" so I assume not a casual date - hopefully would not commit to a partner where that is an issue to the extent they need an arsenal of tools to deal with frequent manipulation. With friendships especially long standing it can be that over the years let's say a friend's situation changes - and that person resorts to manipulation -like in the money example -that might come as a surprise. 

While that can happen in a committed romantic relationship -the person's situation can change -hopefully it's very situational and not indicative of the foundation of the relationship.  If it is indicative I'd question why the person chose to be committed in the first place.  What's the point and all.

 In my personal opinion there is a reason the focus was on friendships and coworkers. 

 For sure you can apply it to any sort of relationship you wish! I was a little surprised not to see an example related to parent-child.

I can't think of having felt manipulated in my marriage or tried to be manipulative. I was accused once by my husband of it and he ended up seeing I was not being manipulative at all.  This occurred about 12 years ago.

[rainbowsandroses]

11 minutes ago, yogacat said:

No. I had laid a ground rule and they did not meet me half way. So, my brother is on the verge of being homeless and my mother has offered for him to come over and do laundry at MY HOUSE that she has no part in our say in. I said, you can't just lay that on me and expect me to say yes. You need to talk to me first. And she got all pissy and I said, you can get pissy all you want I don't give two *****. And that was the end of it. Several days pass and I reached out to see how she was doing but she still being pissy over it. So fine. Bye.

Wow yoga, I'm sorry!

My own mom who was abusive at times never spoke to me that way.

I give you credit for reaching out and being the bigger person, I don't think I would have! 

Sorry to hear about your brother too.  

[rainbowsandroses]

23 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

I often wondered if the other side perspective is different. We only get one side of the story here. While other can be completely different. OPs are also very unreliable narrators in some cases. Some stuff gets, intentionally or unintentionally, not written so we dont get wider picture. 

Anyway, as somebody who studied that science, I hate popular psychology. Everything is "manipulation", "toxic" etc. And tactics for dealing with it are dubious at best. Yes, ignoring can maybe help you. You know what else can help you? Not really associating with the person who is trying to manipulate you.

For example, one of examples is his friend asking for money. Which he interpret as manipulation and handled it by ignoring. Instead of, you know, just being assertive and say "No". Moreover, he claims it "saved their friendship". What friendship? When you claim you are being manipulated by your friend? Again, lots of "popular psychology" is just not good. Its made to be digestible by common people. Worst, its made by people who are self proclaimed experts. And not by people who studied the subject.

Yeah this is what my thinking has always been too @Kwothe28.

Versus going silent leaving the other person not knowing why you're ignoring them!

Especially if they weren't consciously aware they were being manipulative!

But then again, the article makes sense too hence this thread. 

However, I think I'd prefer to stick with believing communication is best. 

Thanks.  

 

[SophiaG]

I do not think going silent or stonewalling is a viable response for romantic partners. Stepping away for a moment to calm down in the heat of an argument, perhaps, but I can't see how resorting to the silent treatment benefits the relationship in the long run.

Also I can see why the other party might feel that way in some cases but if simply crying is seen as manipulation then where is the safe space to be vulnerable and show your emotions?

[yogacat]

25 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Wow yoga, I'm sorry!

My own mom who was abusive at times never spoke to me that way.

I give you credit for reaching out and being the bigger person, I don't think I would have! 

Sorry to hear about your brother too.  

No, that was me speaking to her that way. I.E. You can get pissy all you want. She quieted up real quick. Now, by brother is a different story, I am going to help him a bit but then he's on his own. I just didn't appreciate she felt it was fine to let him come to my house to do laundry and store a few things without asking me first and when I called her on it, she tried to stonewall me. I am making him do a ton of chores now so it's a win win for the time being. 😉

[rainbowsandroses]

Guys, what I'm contemplating now is in a romantic relationship whether going silent and ignoring is actually the manipulation and a conscious one! 

I think it can be in some instances!  Not all.

[rainbowsandroses]

2 minutes ago, yogacat said:

No, that was me speaking to her that way. I.E. You can get pissy all you want. She quieted up real quick. Now, by brother is a different story, I am going to help him a bit but then he's on his own. I just didn't appreciate she felt it was fine to let him come to my house to do laundry and store a few things without asking me first and when I called her on it, she tried to stonewall me. I am making him do a ton of chores now so it's a win win for the time being. 😉

Oh I see, apologies I read that wrong! 

I'm still sorry it happened though, I'm pretty sensitive to family issues these days since finding a new therapist and a lot is coming up. 

I hope your brother is okay, sounds like he's in a tough spot and glad you're able to help him at least for a bit. 

 

[Batya33]

17 minutes ago, SophiaG said:

I do not think going silent or stonewalling is a viable response for romantic partners. Stepping away for a moment to calm down in the heat of an argument, perhaps, but I can't see how resorting to the silent treatment benefits the relationship in the long run.

Also I can see why the other party might feel that way in some cases but if simply crying is seen as manipulation then where is the safe space to be vulnerable and show your emotions?

Yes I agree. I have taken space -one time lol -once only -I left to go for a walk but not in a manipulative way -specifically not -I told husband I need to take a walk, I will be back [gave him ETA like -within an hour] - so I was very direct so it wouldn't look like I wanted him to stop me/chase me etc. I ended up walking several blocks to the then open -gay bookstore LOL and even bought a book and was tempted to tell the female couple who owned it how stressed I was (but I did not).  My husband was concerned only because we're not in the totally safest area - but did not feel manipulated at all nor did I leave to be manipulative. This was around 14 years ago.

But it helped to take space!! And yes I've said and he has said -let's not talk about it now or I've chosen not to discuss over text or email etc.  I have cried.  Not to be manipulative and I would hate if it was seen that way.  I'm not a typical crier in that sense. I agree with you.

[Kwothe28]

16 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Guys, what I'm contemplating now is in a romantic relationship whether going silent is actually the manipulation and a conscious one! 

 

People do all kinds of stuff. You mentioned crying. As somebody who works with kids I can tell you that a lot of them uses it as a shield. Even if its clear they are the ones doing something bad. That kind of "tactics" you learn through life. For example, if your parents allow you to get away from punishment by crying, you will adopt that as a natural response to things. Even in older age if it still passes. Its the same with "stonewalling". Its not necessarily manipulation, but its a response you have for certain things. If you got used to just ignore people when they want to talk to you and you know conversation isnt going to be pleasant, you will just ignore them because you know in that way you will avoid unpleasant conversation. Its not a good "tactic" because, well, as Ive said before, author recommends something that helped him sometimes, but its not optimal response. For example, what if other person wants to talk to you about something and not "manipulate you"? 

Other thing is, "manipulation" means manipulating somebody in a certain direction. For example, when a person purposely doesnt answer your message for a few hours so you would "yearn" them more. There needs to be some goal behind it. While in a lots of cases, its just their natural response to things. Lots of people will put you on "ignore" just because they dont want to face you. And not for you to be "mellowed down" by tomorrow or something like that. 

[ShySoul]

2 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Guys, what I'm contemplating now is in a romantic relationship whether going silent and ignoring is actually the manipulation and a conscious one! 

I think it can be in some instances!  Not all.

I don't like when topics are so general. It really all depends on the person and circumstances. To me it's more the person is manipulative, not the action. Someone who is set on taking advantage of another and playing with their emotions will find a way to weaponize and use anything at their disposal. They can use words and guilt trip a person. They can stay silent and hurt a person that way until the person gives into their demands. They will find whatever the target is vulnerable to and use it to get their way. 

Really more about intent. If the aim is to hurt someone or have your way, then it is a conscious manipulation. If you are doing it to help process or deal with something, then it's not.

I can see being in a relationship and going silent because I'm hurt and don't know how to express it. I can see being silent because I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing and hurting the other person. I might actually be trying to help the situation and not say something that both sides would regret later. Though I still think it's best to say something and let the other person know you aren't trying to start anything, that you need a bit of time. Prevent any misunderstandings and accusations by being clear and upfront about your intentions.

[ShySoul]

2 hours ago, yogacat said:

No, that was me speaking to her that way. I.E. You can get pissy all you want. She quieted up real quick. Now, by brother is a different story, I am going to help him a bit but then he's on his own. I just didn't appreciate she felt it was fine to let him come to my house to do laundry and store a few things without asking me first and when I called her on it, she tried to stonewall me. I am making him do a ton of chores now so it's a win win for the time being. 😉

Sorry she acted like that. Hope your brother can get on his feet soon. Just don't go to hard on the poor guy and run him ragged. 😉

[yogacat]

21 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

Sorry she acted like that. Hope your brother can get on his feet soon. Just don't go to hard on the poor guy and run him ragged. 😉

Thanks.

No. Of course not. He has refused to get a job his entire life...long story. 

[mylolita]

3 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

I often wondered if the other side perspective is different. We only get one side of the story here. While other can be completely different. OPs are also very unreliable narrators in some cases. Some stuff gets, intentionally or unintentionally, not written so we dont get wider picture. 

Anyway, as somebody who studied that science, I hate popular psychology. Everything is "manipulation", "toxic" etc. And tactics for dealing with it are dubious at best. Yes, ignoring can maybe help you. You know what else can help you? Not really associating with the person who is trying to manipulate you.

For example, one of examples is his friend asking for money. Which he interpret as manipulation and handled it by ignoring. Instead of, you know, just being assertive and say "No". Moreover, he claims it "saved their friendship". What friendship? When you claim you are being manipulated by your friend? Again, lots of "popular psychology" is just not good. Its made to be digestible by common people. Worst, its made by people who are self proclaimed experts. And not by people who studied the subject.

I have to agree!

 

Are they “abusive”? Or are they really just an “a**hole”? 

People used to brush off certain bad or rude behaviours, especially from acquaintances and coworkers, as “they’re an idiot” or “they always want attention - ignore them” or “she’s a moody b*tch don’t pay her any notice”

 

Now if someone is mean or inconsiderate or rude they are gaslighting, abusive, narcissistic… on and on. And I do understand there are genuine psychopaths out there, people who do fall under contrived mentally ill methods but… 2024, let’s stop being so serious and apocalyptic and just call them an a**hole and move on? 
 

Or is it just me? 
 

How many times have I heard the phase gaslighting when I imagine it’s simply a husband irritated at his wife who doesn’t feel like talking tonight but still will love her dearly? 
 

Not everything is a psychological maladaptive power move. 
 

x

[rainbowsandroses]

5 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Not everything is a psychological maladaptive power move.

Amen!!

[mylolita]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Yes I agree. I have taken space -one time lol -once only -I left to go for a walk but not in a manipulative way -specifically not -I told husband I need to take a walk, I will be back [gave him ETA like -within an hour] - so I was very direct so it wouldn't look like I wanted him to stop me/chase me etc. I ended up walking several blocks to the then open -gay bookstore LOL and even bought a book and was tempted to tell the female couple who owned it how stressed I was (but I did not).  My husband was concerned only because we're not in the totally safest area - but did not feel manipulated at all nor did I leave to be manipulative. This was around 14 years ago.

But it helped to take space!! And yes I've said and he has said -let's not talk about it now or I've chosen not to discuss over text or email etc.  I have cried.  Not to be manipulative and I would hate if it was seen that way.  I'm not a typical crier in that sense. I agree with you.

I like these break downs Batya because everyone handles conflict and painful or, awkward situations differently.

 

I’m personally like a dog with a bone and want to carry on and on until everything is out in the open, laid bare and ideally it is either exercised out or began to be solved/a solution agreed - even if that is at 2am.

 

There has also been the odd and rare time in my 16 year marriage that I haven’t seen a “discussion” or disagreement coming to any conclusion, and either me or my husband has said “That’s enough I won’t talk about this anymore” and gone to bed angry. Neither of us have any tendency to do any silent treatment.

 

Could any of the above be perceived as toxic or manipulation? Or mentally disordered? Probably these days quite easily. 
 

Sometimes I think, what people sometimes don’t realise is, manipulation can be okay sometimes. I have coerced my husband into financial decisions he needed an “extra push” on and also for very trivial things like which coloured parquet flooring to buy. I have steered decisions to do with other things too. Does this make me a bad and manipulative person? Technically yes probably - LOL! 
 

If we are honest with ourselves and look deep within, most of us will be hard pressed to say without the mirror cracking that we don’t subtly manipulate at some point. The majority of it is completely benign and I think that is how you know you’re probably not the next Dark Tirade!

 

x

[mylolita]

2 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Guys, what I'm contemplating now is in a romantic relationship whether going silent and ignoring is actually the manipulation and a conscious one! 

I think it can be in some instances!  Not all.

Like pretty much any human behaviour, any of it can be purposeful and concocted and in another person it can be completely innocent and come from a good place. 
 

You have to take these situations on an individual basis to some extent and you have to go with the flow of life, and think and act on your feet, from minute to minute. 
 

There is no article and text book for life.

 

If something feels wrong or off or bad for most of the time in a relationship, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s universally bad - it could be - but generally it suggests it’s just not right for you. And that’s okay. 
 

Some women would find my traditional set up manipulative or maladaptive or controlling or use the words “financial coercion” but genuinely, it’s simply my husband earning enough that I can stay home and be here full time with my kids like I always wanted too. You can read sinister meanings into anything if you try.

 

Between a man with bad and abusive tendencies, this dynamic could be a storm in a tea cup. It all depends on the individuals. 
 

I would personally trust your instincts when dealing with people. Not everyone is going to be your cup of tea and vice versa but there are better matches out there in friendship, work and love.

 

x

[ShySoul]

43 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Thanks.

No. Of course not. He has refused to get a job his entire life...long story. 

Ah, that's a different story. In that case, hope he shapes up soon and gets it together.

You seem like the stable one in the family. Family, they can drive you crazy, but you love them anyway.