Did I scare her off by rushing her?

[Morello]

I was not going to say this, but given it's been happening in pretty much EVERY thread, here it is:

This is just my opinion, but Shy Soul has some really weird takes on dating and relationships. It's ok for people to have different opinions and styles (obviously), but to keep pushing this agenda of "Why not flip the script and view this in a positive way?" is unhelpful in most cases, including this thread. Most people who come here for advice do so for a reason. 

This kind of advice just keeps people forever hopeful about things that have little to no chance of happening.  It's so clear that this woman is lukewarm at best about OP, with very little interest on her part. Why not advise OP to move on so they can find the best partner instead of insisting on someone who is clearly not interested? Interested people act interested. Period. Sure, life gets in the way, but it's not what this is.

Also, the idea of becoming friends before dating, while it might work for Shy Soul (to some degree, as others noticed), goes totally against what dating really is. It's shocking advice, in my opinion. Sure, we can (and should) become good friends with our dates/lovers, but to suggest that you should try to become friends first but with ulterior motives, as a way to 'sneak in' is terrible and unethical. 

I'd take any dating advice from Shy Soul with a MASSIVE grain of salt.

[facelesswanderer]

Maybe I wasn’t clear in my original post. It’s been a few days. We went out on Tuesday, texting conversations were normal and fluent until maybe around Thursday, then it died down and it’s currently Sunday. 

It’s not impossible to catch her in a conversation, but it’s not like I’m coming off as desperate to her either. Usually I’ll reciprocate her push and pull, so if she sends a text after 3 hours, I’ll reply in around the same time period. Of course sometimes I’ll reply in 20 minutes even if she took a couple hours and then I’ll wait another couple hours for her to say something again, but sometimes not. Sometimes I’ll wait multiple hours to respond to her and SHE will reply in a few minutes. 

She does initiate conversations still. Just last night she sent me a message about some random stuff that was going on in her life and I did manage to catch a conversation there.

I think I’m just overthinking.

As for answering some questions in this thread:

Q: Is she hot?

A: She’s not hot, she’s cute. Nothing that lights up a room but she has a way about her. Honestly I would say the girl I dumped to start things up with her again was a bit more attractive.

Q: Are you going to be friends with her and wait again?

A: No. I wasn’t friends with her last time it happened either. I just randomly told her I still had feelings for her and she was extremely shocked because she thought I hated her.

Q: Do you have white knight syndrome?

A: I know what that is. No I don’t. I don’t care nor am I attracted to her “brokenness.” It’s actually one of the main things I dislike and was a serious consideration before trying anything with her but I decided my interest in her outweighed it.

[rainbowsandroses]

15 minutes ago, facelesswanderer said:

Q: Do you have white knight syndrome?

A: I know what that is. No I don’t. I don’t care nor am I attracted to her “brokenness.”

^That's not what white knight behavior is (i.e being attracted to broken women) but it's cool @facelesswanderer, good luck. 

[Morello]

17 hours ago, facelesswanderer said:

Did I scare her off by rushing her?

Can't believe I'm here asking for advice but I'd like some opinions on this.

So there's this girl who I dated at the start of this year which ended because she was still struggling mentally with issues from her ex boyfriend who she had only recently broken up with (apparently he was a ***). I believe her on this.

About a month ago I realised I still had pretty strong feelings for her despite trying my best to move on, and I broke it off with another girl I understood I was unintentionally leading on and immediately confessed to her that I was still into her. She said she felt the same and would be open to trying again with me, as long as we take it slow and get to know each other again.

We text every day, but not too much. She is a huge overthinker, and actually asked me if "I only still liked her because I didn't know that I liked you back," which I obviously denied and was confused what events occurred for her to believe that in the first place, but I figured I should try and act more lovey dovey with her so she wouldn't get in her own head and dip out, which is the last thing I want since I do have quite strong feelings for her. FYI I had a pretty strong suspicion she was still into me, I would catch her staring at me a lot at work.

Anyway, I hung out with her a couple times at work. We work at the same job but have different shifts so she came to see me while I was working by myself and I did the same back. I asked her to hang out outside of work and she suggested we go for a walk on the beach but we just spent 5 hours sitting inside her car yapping and it was very cute imo.

When she dropped me back off at my car, I said something along the lines of "when you said you wanted to take things slow, how slow?" She was taken aback, so I clarified with "like if I wanted to kiss you right now, would that be too fast for you?"

She was flustered and said "no, no, not this time. Next time." I'm completely okay with this. I really don't want to rush her into intimacy.

After I got home she sent me a text saying "I'm so sorry," and "I was thinking about it to before you asked but I just don't think I'm ready yet and I need a bit more time to see how things are going." She has a habit of apologising a lot actually, even when she has no reason to. Anyway of course I said that I don't want her to feel bad about not being ready, and I'm perfectly fine to move at her pace and that I'm sorry if I made her feel awkward. She replied that she just felt bad about saying no.

It's been a weird few days since then. Texts have slowed down, and I know she has university exams and is working, but I just can't really catch a proper conversation with her that doesn't span over multiple hours throughout the day.

I'm kind of concerned that she thinks I'm trying to rush her so she's trying to pull away. I know she's dealt with bad men in her life (I don’t mean like, ones she’s slept with and used her etc) particularly her ex boyfriend which was her first relationship.

I'm 21 and she's 20 if this effects anything. I didn't really consider that a kiss is rushing too fast but maybe everyone has different ideas of it.

Am I overthinking this? Did I scare her off? What do you guys think? Any more information I can clarify in the comments 🙂

Just highlighting some parts here that show a couple of things:

1) She was not and still is not ready to date. She dumped you once and will likely dump you again if you start dating.
2) Despite that, you are going full-on and very intense. You're not listening to her at all.

[facelesswanderer]

9 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

^That's not what white knight behavior is (i.e being attracted to broken women) but it's cool @facelesswanderer, good luck. 

The way I understood it, white knight behaviour is intentionally getting into relationships with broken women so I can “fix” her or something.

[shouldhavelearned]

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[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Morello said:

Also, the idea of becoming friends before dating, while it might work for Shy Soul (to some degree, as others noticed), goes totally against what dating really is. It's shocking advice, in my opinion. Sure, we can (and should) become good friends with our dates/lovers, but to suggest that you should try to become friends first but with ulterior motives, as a way to 'sneak in' is terrible and unethical. 

I agree when there are ulterior motives.  I also never went for "friends first" as that implied or expressed to me that the person had hangups about physical or sexual intimacy as if it complicated things in a bad way rather than enhancing a dating relationship which to me was two people getting to know each other not separately as friends but - know each other in various ways! I thought -when both people were ready and comfy -sex and intimacy were fun, exciting, caring, often loving and moved along at the pace both people desired. And sure sometimes intimacy meant some adjustment - looking at each other in a new way- maybe even awkwardness or vulnerability but -- fine so what? It's all part of life and being together.  

I do think and know personally that sometimes people who are friends one  day - poof! -realize there is "more" and become romantic partners -no motives and sure maybe one person always thought -oh sure he's a cutie - but it's a pleasant surprise not a time for drama.  Sometimes it's because of context or  timing - the friend was your BFF's older brother you became friendly with, the friend was a coworker and then quit the company, both of you were married or "taken" and then both were free.  This situation is very different and in a bad way -bad for the potential for the OP so I agree with all those who said -move along and sing your song - as a solo not as a duet with her.  I mean sure anything can happen so if in the future she reaches out, says you know I made a mistake -I want to date you and here is why (the why is important!!) that can happen but it's not something a person should "wait" for.

I was friendly and on friendly terms with my ex for well over a year after we broke up including when my future husband and I reconnected and he knew and was totally fine with it.  My ex was supportive of my new relationship.  We didn't hang out in person except once when he did something with my Ipod lol.  

Anyway about a year or so in my ex mentioned a new lady he was  dating.  He'd gone on dates and told me briefly but this -seemed -different.  Like -special/different. I made the decision that day I'd do the slow fade as I never ever wanted her  to feel weird seeing me on his AIM screen or wonder about me etc.  I did this -and he -let me - so it wasn't hurtful -he was focusing more and more on her and I knew staying in touch in any real way could be a distraction/upset her.  I faded until we had no contact at all- really this took less than a week -very short time and they'd only gone out a couple times. 

Close to a year later a mutual friend told me they were engaged. I didn't reach out. I knew when the wedding was - didn't reach out.  6 months into their marriage she reached out to me via his email account - wanting to meet me.  I'd never met her, never communicated.  So see I was right -she was worried about me somehow.  Imagine how much more worried had I still been in contact.  I told her - sure let's double date.  (I even checked with my ex -did she email me by accident?? No.).

We all met.  I told them I was expecting a baby and we were getting married.  Which was true but to put her at ease. I offered later to take her out for lunch one on one (as they treated us).  She declined and I left it there.

My point again is - believe me he'd have married her even if I'd insisted on being his "friend" - she'd have made him choose I suppose and he would have chosen her no question.  But by walking away -and him letting me walk away -I prevented any of that drama.  She obviously was insecure but I slept well at night knowing it was not my doing and I hopefully put her at ease when she met me, my future husband, etc.  Why be the one to put yourself at risk of unnecessary heartache or stay in a "friendship" and potentially impede the other person from finding the right match??

[rainbowsandroses]

Just now, facelesswanderer said:

The way I understood it, white knight behaviour is intentionally getting into relationships with broken women so I can “fix” her or something.

That can be part of it, but there's much more to it than that. 

I don't have time to explain it not that it matters, you're gonna do what you want to do which.is OK, if it doesn't work out, you learn for next time. 

Again good luck, I truly hope it works out for ya.

 

[rainbowsandroses]

I agree a friendship can evolve into more when both people are on the same wavelength and it organically evolves into a romantic relationship when they both realize simultaneously that they have romantic feelings for each other. 

I've seen that happen many times. 

That's not what's happening here though.

OP is quite into her, clearly he wants a romantic relationship, she on the other hand is ambivalent, uncertain, not ready, still hung up on her a$$hole ex and/or simply not attracted enough. 

Instead of moving on to find a woman who IS on his wavelength, who IS into him the way he needs her or any woman to be, he's choosing to hang in being her "friend" hoping she miraculously changes her mind and feelings. 

THAT is having an ulterior motive whether he wants to admit that to himself or not. 

It's also what white knight behavior is.... for the OP fyi. 

There are always exceptions but none of this inspires a woman to move closer to you in a romantic way. 

Read some men's forums, read about their experiences when they employed such behavior and what a disaster it turned out to be for them.

I'm sorry man. 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

I also think it's a bad omen when a woman describes her ex, a man she willingly chose to date for a period of time and went back to or considered it, as an a**hole. Or any other derogatory name. 

He may very well have been an a**hole however SHE still chose to date him and remain with him for a period of time.  Even considered going back which is why she ended it with you from what you posted. 

This speaks volumes about the type of man she is attracted to, even if she's not fully aware of it. 

So I'd be very cautious about that if I were you.

Lastly I'm sure she wants to like you, wants to have those lovey dovey feelings because you seem like a great guy unlike her a-hole EX.

However try as she might she's unable to which explains all the push/pull and back and forth. 

Think about it. 

 

 

[SophiaG]

19 hours ago, facelesswanderer said:

she was still struggling mentally with issues from her ex boyfriend

What issues? Are those no longer issues now?

[facelesswanderer]

57 minutes ago, SophiaG said:

What issues? Are those no longer issues now?

I didn’t ask what specifically, all I know is the aftermath of when she dumped him and he tried to spread a bunch of misinformation about her and split her up from her social circles. Apparently he started out nice and I’m gonna guess it’s caused her to have some trust issues. I’m really thinking I should just ask specifically what occurred and come to my own conclusion. 

She told me straight up when she wanted to try a second time that she was still struggling and was scared of starting again, but much less so than before.  

[facelesswanderer]

2 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I also think it's a bad omen when a woman describes her ex, a man she willingly chose to date for a period of time and went back to or considered it, as an a**hole. Or any other derogatory name. 

He may very well have been an a**hole however SHE still chose to date him and remain with him for a period of time.  Even considered going back which is why she ended it with you from what you posted. 

This speaks volumes about the type of man she is attracted to, even if she's not fully aware of it. 

So I'd be very cautious about that if I were you.

Lastly I'm sure she wants to like you, wants to have those lovey dovey feelings because you seem like a great guy unlike her a-hole EX.

However try as she might she's unable to which explains all the push/pull and back and forth. 

Think about it. 

 

 

This one is interesting. 

She didn’t consider going back. She said she would never make the mistake of falling for someone who would devolve into a ***head, so she has some misplaced trust issues on me.

I think this response is the most hopeful, especially the part about how she wants to like me but is unable to. Sometimes when she’s complimenting me it’s almost like she’s trying to convince herself lol

I’m not sure if I should press her for specific details about her ex, but I’m thinking I might need some clarification and if it seems to line up with the section where she stayed with him over a longer period of time despite being an *** (meaning she remained attracted to him) I will dip.

[Morello]

No, man, don't ask her to clarify anything. Just give her some space. You're suffocating her.

[ShySoul]

2 hours ago, facelesswanderer said:

I didn’t ask what specifically, all I know is the aftermath of when she dumped him and he tried to spread a bunch of misinformation about her and split her up from her social circles. Apparently he started out nice and I’m gonna guess it’s caused her to have some trust issues. I’m really thinking I should just ask specifically what occurred and come to my own conclusion. 

She told me straight up when she wanted to try a second time that she was still struggling and was scared of starting again, but much less so than before.  

As I said before, a broken wing needs time to heal.

She is struggling. She's been hurt. She's built a wall to protect herself. I think everyone on this thread has done the same thing. I know I have. And what helps a person through is kindness, patience, and understanding. Having someone there for you allows you to slowly tear that wall down. 

Don't directly ask. Let her know that she can trust you and that when she is ready to talk about it, you are there. It shows trust in her and gives her the ability to make her own decision on what to say when she is ready. It shows you are a real nice guy who cares for her but won't rush or push her into anything. 

Rome wasn't built in a day. She is making moves. She is less scared then before. Be patient and things will progress naturally, when they are supposed to. Enjoy the here and now.

2 hours ago, facelesswanderer said:

She didn’t consider going back. She said she would never make the mistake of falling for someone who would devolve into a ***head, so she has some misplaced trust issues on me.

I think this response is the most hopeful, especially the part about how she wants to like me but is unable to. Sometimes when she’s complimenting me it’s almost like she’s trying to convince herself

Having been in your shoes and been interested in a person who did see such a jerk, I know that my lady had those same trust issues. And it is reasonable. Someone who seems nice on the outside but ends up lying and manipulating, doing terrible things. You feel betrayed. You get suspicious of everyone, afraid someone who really is being nice (like you or I) is just another jerk in hiding. I actually think a lot of the advice given here follows the same pattern. People have been hurt, so they are suspicious of others and expect to get hurt again, that most people are out to play games and mess with you. 

And that doesn't say anything bad about her. Anyone can be fooled by someone. In my case she openly said she was attracted to the sensitive, nice guy he could be at times. But it wouldn't last. People are complex and have many sides. You can be attracted to parts of a person, but not attracted to others.

Going on my own experience, she does like you. She does want to open herself to you. But doing so is scary. It will leave her vulnerable to being hurt again. So her inner heart is experiencing a tug of war. She wants to get closer, but then the fear gets the better of her. Then she thinks better of it and sees she can trust you. Then the cycle repeats.

Your natural inclinations have been good ones. It has attracted her and got her to open up. Stay the course. As the saying goes, the only thing you have to fear is fear itself. You are overthinking and putting to much pressure on yourself. Keep doing what you doing and stop trying to anaylze this. Just enjoy it and let this become whatever it is supposed to become.

Oh, and in my case giving it time, being a friend, and not worrying about it got to I love you, spending nights cuddling in her bed, and kissing. Think that went pretty well.

[ShySoul]

7 hours ago, Morello said:

Interested people act interested.

"After I got home she sent me a text saying "I'm so sorry," and "I was thinking about it to"

If thinking about kissing you isn't a sign of interest, I'm not sure anything would qualify. I also believe she has openly said she is interested in him, but needs time. She suggested to meet up in the first place. I think she is showing plenty of interest.

7 hours ago, Morello said:

to suggest that you should try to become friends first but with ulterior motives, as a way to 'sneak in' is terrible and unethical. 

Except if you read everything I said you would see I said the opposite. I said NO ulterior motives and that is wrong to lie about your intentions. But he isn't lying, he's made it clear what he would like. He isn't trying to sneak in, he's been very upfront. You've even accused him of going to fast. How can he both be going to fast and trying to sneak in? If anything, he has been very mature and upfront about everything. They both have.

7 hours ago, Morello said:

This is just my opinion, but Shy Soul has some really weird takes on dating and relationships. It's ok for people to have different opinions and styles (obviously), but to keep pushing this agenda of "Why not flip the script and view this in a positive way?" is unhelpful in most cases, including this thread. Most people who come here for advice do so for a reason. 

I do have weird takes. I know I speak counter to the standard responses. Which is good. If everyone said the same thing, everyone would do the same thing. And since most people advise to give up, relationships would rarely get off the ground. It's not a one size fits all solution. People should do what works for them. I just give a different view in case people are tired of the same old thing and find it doesn't work for them.

And people shouldn't listen to me. They should listen to the at least a half dozen women, who I was not romantically involved with and who volunteered without any urging, who said I was "an ideal partner" who "perfectly understood what women want." They should listen to the many more women who have complimented me on being a respectful gentleman who cares about people's feelings. They should listen to the many guys who have come back to me later and said I understood them and that what I said did help them to get the girl. They should listen to my sister who has had the most health and stable relationship I've ever seen and who has said many of the things I advise to others. 

It's not an agenda. It's compassion. It's encouraging people to pursue what they clearly want, and what the other party has also indicated they want. It's getting people to think positive and believe in themselves instead of constantly focusing on the negative and finding reasons to quit on things. If you never try, you will always fail. If you try, it may not work out, but there is still the chance.

[facelesswanderer]

You’re sweet @ShySoul

[facelesswanderer]

1 hour ago, Morello said:

No, man, don't ask her to clarify anything. Just give her some space. You're suffocating her.

Okay I won’t. I’m friends with her friends and according to them she does really like me and talk about me a lot so that’s good at least. I’ll just give her space and see what happens.