My (27F) boyfriend (31M) refuses to sign a prenup?

[Andrina]

Your mistake was to not have this discussion when you two decided to become exclusive. It's important to be on the same page with a partner about all major things before deciding to become exclusive. Because now you're more invested after more than a year together and it'll be emotionally harder to part ways because of this stalemate.

What you should've done at around the 3 month mark is to say, "I don't find it important to marry. I just want a lifetime partner. But just so you know, if I do ever marry, I'm going to insist on a prenup."

That said, you can do this moving forward for any new relationships. I don't see how you can stay in this relationship if he wants to marry you. Too big of a risk if you decide to never want marriage, but then if you did want to marry and he agreed to sign a prenup, he'd probably feel bad about it, therefore tainting whatever good he feels. 

[Lovelee56]

1 minute ago, Andrina said:

Your mistake was to not have this discussion when you two decided to become exclusive. It's important to be on the same page with a partner about all major things before deciding to become exclusive. Because now you're more invested after more than a year together and it'll be emotionally harder to part ways because of this stalemate.

What you should've done at around the 3 month mark is to say, "I don't find it important to marry. I just want a lifetime partner. But just so you know, if I do ever marry, I'm going to insist on a prenup."

That said, you can do this moving forward for any new relationships. I don't see how you can stay in this relationship if he wants to marry you. Too big of a risk if you decide to never want marriage, but then if you did want to marry and he agreed to sign a prenup, he'd probably feel bad about it, therefore tainting whatever good he feels. 

Good point and you're probably right. Will keep this in mind moving forward to prevent wasted time. 

[Tinydance]

2 minutes ago, Lovelee56 said:

Yes the woman could definitely be the provider. But I feel like there's no point to someone to stay at home unless there's kids which we both agreed we don't want.

Well look, I'm sorry if I was rude and maybe it's because I'm not rich myself. So it very likely is something that hasn't crossed my mind. I do have inheritance from my parents though in the way of investment properties and cars and whatever else my mother decides to leave me. I'm an only child so I'll get everything. 

I think if you noticed particular signs that your boyfriend cares more about your money than you, then he's probably not the right guy for you. I mean I'm guessing you wouldn't actually want someone who only wants you for your money. But in general I don't think every person who dates someone more well off is only after their money. E.g. If a nurse meets a doctor at work and they fall for each other, it doesn't mean she only married him because he's a doctor.

And there are people who do work hard but the career field they work in just doesn't bring in as much money. For example here in Australia nurses don't get paid much but they work so hard and it's a really hard job. I would also be looking at that person's values and attitudes in general. If they act like some kind of freeloader and don't work then yes that's huge red flags. But your boyfriend does have a job. And it's not like he's a cleaner or something. He has a good job and earns reasonably good money. But you are actually rich so that's the difference.

[Lovelee56]

1 minute ago, Tinydance said:

Well look, I'm sorry if I was rude and maybe it's because I'm not rich myself. So it very likely is something that hasn't crossed my mind. I do have inheritance from my parents though in the way of investment properties and cars and whatever else my mother decides to leave me. I'm an only child so I'll get everything. 

I think if you noticed particular signs that your boyfriend cares more about your money than you, then he's probably not the right guy for you. I mean I'm guessing you wouldn't actually want someone who only wants you for your money. But in general I don't think every person who dates someone more well off is only after their money. E.g. If a nurse meets a doctor at work and they fall for each other, it doesn't mean she only married him because he's a doctor.

And there are people who do work hard but the career field they work in just doesn't bring in as much money. For example here in Australia nurses don't get paid much but they work so hard and it's a really hard job. I would also be looking at that person's values and attitudes in general. If they act like some kind of freeloader and don't work then yes that's huge red flags. But your boyfriend does have a job. And it's not like he's a cleaner or something. He has a good job and earns reasonably good money. But you are actually rich so that's the difference.

I didn't find you rude at all. Thanks for being respecful.

I understand where you're coming from. Again, I grew up privileged and my parents were wealthy so they always advised me to get a prenup and everyone in my family has done the same.

I agree that just because someone dates someone of higher financial status that they are automatically after money. However I think it's a bit suspicious if they are overly inquiring about finances and already making suggestions about how I should spend my money to benefit him (which my boyfriend was doing). He has hinted that his job is very stressful and he wants to quit so this is what concerns me and makes me think he would benefit from my income. 

[Tinydance]

2 minutes ago, Lovelee56 said:

I didn't find you rude at all. Thanks for being respecful.

I understand where you're coming from. Again, I grew up privileged and my parents were wealthy so they always advised me to get a prenup and everyone in my family has done the same.

I agree that just because someone dates someone of higher financial status that they are automatically after money. However I think it's a bit suspicious if they are overly inquiring about finances and already making suggestions about how I should spend my money to benefit him (which my boyfriend was doing). He has hinted that his job is very stressful and he wants to quit so this is what concerns me and makes me think he would benefit from my income. 

I mean yes that's possible and does seem odd that he wanted to know how much you had in your bank account and things like that. I mean the problem is also he doesn't want to sign the prenup. I'm thinking that unfortunately you'll need to break up with him. I mean you wouldn't marry someone who didn't sign the prenup so he's not husband material for you. I think unfortunately it's now become clear that you're incompatible. 

I'm just wondering though how he knew that you had all those investment properties and inheritance and so forth? I'm thinking maybe it would be better if you didn't disclose all that information. I mean of course you'd probably reveal that you're a doctor but I don't think you're obliged to say your family is very wealthy, you have investment properties and massive inheritance and stuff like that. 

[Lovelee56]

2 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

I mean yes that's possible and does seem odd that he wanted to know how much you had in your bank account and things like that. I mean the problem is also he doesn't want to sign the prenup. I'm thinking that unfortunately you'll need to break up with him. I mean you wouldn't marry someone who didn't sign the prenup so he's not husband material for you. I think unfortunately it's now become clear that you're incompatible. 

I'm just wondering though how he knew that you had all those investment properties and inheritance and so forth? I'm thinking maybe it would be better if you didn't disclose all that information. I mean of course you'd probably reveal that you're a doctor but I don't think you're obliged to say your family is very wealthy, you have investment properties and massive inheritance and stuff like that. 

I never told him about my inheritance, I just mentioned I wanted to protect it in the post. And the properties he knows about because one day we were at a gathering and my cousin asked me how my tenants are doing. He asked me about it later so I told him. But yes moving forward maybe it's best to not be so revealing 

[Seraphim]

I don’t think you and your boyfriend want the same things . He obviously wants marriage and you don’t . He wants to amalgamate lives including money and you don’t .  That is guaranteed failure from the beginning. 
 

Personally , a pre nup would offend me as well. It means you have no intention of caring if the relationship works I am just a car or a house and replaceable by someone /thing else. When it was first brought up I would have walked away to find someone who cared about me as an individual.

 

[Tinydance]

3 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

I don’t think you and your boyfriend want the same things . He obviously wants marriage and you don’t . He wants to amalgamate lives including money and you don’t .  That is guaranteed failure from the beginning. 
 

Personally , a pre nup would offend me as well. It means you have no intention of caring if the relationship works I am just a car or a house and replaceable by someone /thing else. When it was first brought up I would have walked away to find someone who cared about me as an individual.

 

I feel the same..But I'm not rich so I don't know if these things just never crossed my mind. But for example here in Australia you actually have all the rights of being married if you live together for only six months. And when I lived with one of my ex's, I had a car and inheritance and he didn't. But it actually never crossed my mind: "OMG if we break up he'll get my car or half my car." I just never had these thoughts but again how can you think you're going to lose a lot when you don't have all that much. 

To me it seems when you want to marry someone, it's because you love them and you want a future. So you decide to share your life, your money and possessions with them. And that person you love may or may not be well off financially. If they are, you share it, and if they're not you share it. To me that's what a relationship is. And I guess you just have to trust that this person isn't going to screw you over. You hope that you made a good choice of a decent and honest person. But of course in life you don't know everything 100%. 

It seems weird to me personally to be raised all your life and being told that you need a prenup. To me it seems you get taught to believe from the get go that relationships are only about money and that you shouldn't trust anyone.

[DarkCh0c0]

4 hours ago, Lovelee56 said:

I pay for most things in our relationship which has mostly been dates and I have taken care of some of larger expenses for him (e.g. boarding his dogs while he go on trips and gifts for his family during holidays)

So you got him to get used to you being the provider in the relationship. You did this by behaving as the main provider. And he is enjoying this.

4 hours ago, Lovelee56 said:

Recently he has been pushing the idea of marriage, which at first I found strange because he initially told me that he didn't want to rush into anything after being divorced

He's got a good deal. That's why he's pushing for marriage. You take care of the man child he is, and all he has to do is sit back and relax.

4 hours ago, Lovelee56 said:

He has also been saying that his job is stressful and he would like to take a break for a while and I feel like he's hinting that he wants me to support him. 

And there you go. More proof that he wants to lock that sweet marriage deal. I'm sure once you get married, he'll complain about his job and resign. He'll be a bigger bum. He'll get to live an easy life thanks to rich gf.

The prenup will protect you and won't give him a ridiculous amount of assets should you divorce him. That's why he's upset. He wants the cherry and the cake. By standing up to what you want, you're getting in the way of him getting that.

I honestly don't think he's a good partner nor father material regardless of the prenup. He doesn't match you at your level in terms of efforts in this relationship, and he wants a different kind of deal.

[rainbowsandroses]

5 hours ago, Lovelee56 said:

Yes, if the gender roles were reversed and I was a man, I guarantee that EVERYONE would be saying that my girlfriend is a gold digger..

@Lovelee56 and this^ is exactly what I think about your boyfriend.

For someone as educated and book smart as you, I'm surprised you can't see it yourself.

Or perhaps you can which is why you came here?  To seek other opinions?  Which makes sense. 

Anyway tons of red flags here.  He's recently divorced last year (your words) but yet he's now pushing you for marriage and throws a fit (sorry, gets offended) when you mention a prenuptial?

You pay for most everything (even his personal ****) which is OK with you and HE allows because he pays for some dates, even though he makes $90k a year? 

Asking you what's in your bank account?  Like come on, really????  

That's just for starters, I mean it's so obvious what this guy is after.  At least imo.

I'm curious, you don't want marriage yourself at least not right now, so why do you bother even entertaining the idea?

Let alone allowing it to concern you?

Why not tell him it's too soon for marriage which it IS imo especially under these circumstances of him being recently divorced, among other reasons.

If he leaves, good riddance!

It's funny I am recalling another thread a few weeks ago, similar scenario.

Boyfriend of three months was pushing the OP to move in together after only three months' dating; pushing her to sell her beloved home and buy a new one together with the proceeds. 

The OP did tell him it was too soon, and that she had no interest in selling her home anytime soon, and he dumped her!

My advice and what I would do in your shoes is move on from this person.

Something about it and him sounds seriously off.

I would give same advice if roles were reversed. 

Good luck. 

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

Just read a comment in another thread from @Andrina that also applies here, imo.  

>>When people come with warning labels, listen.<<

[Cherylyn]

No prenup?  No marriage. 

Always protect yourself. 

Never believe in the "trust" gaslighting excuse. 

Stay the course and secure your future ALWAYS.

[MissCanuck]

4 hours ago, Lovelee56 said:

I'm really surprised at the viciousness here about the high salary? I'm not sure why it's so offensive to everyone. 

It's not offensive. 

It simply makes your post lack credibility, sorry. I'll bow out here.  I don't buy what you're trying to sell. 

[rainbowsandroses]

11 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

It's not offensive. 

It simply makes your post lack credibility, sorry. I'll bow out here.  I don't buy what you're trying to sell. 

I thought same after reading initial post but then thought, well just in case it's real, I'll respond.

But who knows, I sure don't anymore and I'm becoming quite disheartened by it. 😞

 

[Seraphim]

45 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@Lovelee56 and this^ is exactly what I think about your boyfriend.

For someone as educated and book smart as you, I'm surprised you can't see it yourself.

Or perhaps you can which is why you came here?  To seek other opinions?  Which makes sense. 

Anyway tons of red flags here.  He's recently divorced last year (your words) but yet he's now pushing you for marriage and throws a fit (sorry, gets offended) when you mention a prenuptial?

You pay for most everything which is OK because he pays for some dates, even though he makes $90k a year? 

That's just for starters, I mean it's so obvious what this guy is after.  At least imo.

I'm curious, you don't want marriage yourself at least not right now, so why do bother even entertaining the idea?

Let alone allowing it to concern you?

Why not tell him it's too soon for marriage which it IS imo especially under these circumstances of him being recently divorced, among other reasons?

If he leaves good riddance!

It's funny I am recalling another thread a few weeks ago, exact same scenario. 

Boyfriend of three months was pushing the OP to move in together after only three months' dating; pushing her to sell her beloved home and buy a new one together with the proceeds. 

The OP did tell him it was too soon, and that she wasn't interested in selling her home and he  dumped her!

My advice and what I would do in your shoes is move on from this person.

I would give same advice if roles were reversed. 

Good luck. 

 

 

Sure this guy has warning labels no said he didn’t . Making 90,000 a year is far above the North American average so I am not sure he qualifies as a reject . However, his hinting he would be able to live off her isn’t good. Man or woman offering a pre nup though I would suggest to avoid because the relationship isn’t priority and you are viewed in the same light as an appliance. 

[rainbowsandroses]

13 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Making 90,000 a year is far above the North American average so I am not sure he qualifies as a reject

^That's precisely my point, at that salary he should be contributing at least equally for dates and NOT agreeing for her to pay for his personal ****.

It's unclear why she even offers!  Or allows it herself.

Along with everything else; I don't think he's a "reject" not sure what you even mean by that.

One doesn't have to be a reject to see a financially advantageous opportunity standing before them and take advantage of that which is what he's doing imo.

And any men who has the audacity to ask me how much money I have in my bank account goes no further with me no matter how intoxicating the chemistry or how lonely I am.

JMO.

 

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, Lovelee56 said:

Fair enough and I respect your opinion. There are some people who don't want prenup (for valid reasons that you mentioned) and I think maybe it's best for someone to find another partner who is aligned with finances. If you dont want prenup then don't marry someone who wants one.. I guess this is where I am right now and don't want to question the rest of my life is someone with me for money.

Genuine question though: If you never want to get a divorce, then why wouldn't you sign a prenup? If you're never going to use it then why have a problem signing? just curious

I am married for keeps but that is because I am married to someone who sees marriage- including financial aspects- as the same.  If he insisted on a prenup I'd have questioned whether we had the same financial values and values about marriage.  There is one instance in which I would sign a prenup -totally hypothetical -if the purpose was to protect the financial future of his kids.  

Also we have no prenup but we did agree in general on how we would combine our money (or not in certain respects), we discussed whether and how I'd make financial contributions in the 7 years I was a full time mom (I did-he didn't want me to or ask) and we agree generally on what is the amount of money we can spend without checking in with the other.  We agreed on my return to work, the logistics of it- the child care arrangements -all of which involve some financial decisions.  I trusted my husband when he said he was comfortable being the main financial provider when I was home full time.  

We were fortunate in that by the time we married we were both financially stable with ample savings -not the traditional young couple just starting out.  And it never occurred to either of us to try to protect what we brought into the marriage via a prenup or anything else via a prenup because we view the marital commitment similarly.  You don't -you are wanting added protection financially in the event of divorce because you don't trust his financial values or how he would behave with respect to your money if you divorced. Again I'd explore the deeper reasons why.  You won't make 350k if you have a child -or will you -do you plan on hiring a full time live in nanny or are you not interested in children? Another thing to explore as far as your financial future.

 

[Seraphim]

9 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

^That's precisely my point, at that salary he should be contributing at least equally for dates and NOT agreeing for her to pay for his personal ****.

It's unclear why she even offers!  Or allows it herself.

Along with everything else; I don't think he's a "reject" not sure what you even mean by that.

One doesn't have to be a reject to see a financially advantageous opportunity standing before them and take advantage of that which is what he's doing imo.

And any men who has the audacity to ask me how much money I have in my bank account goes no further with me no matter how intoxicating the chemistry or how lonely I am.

JMO.

 

Oh I agree he is treating her as a money option but they both are bringing the relationship down to money which will fail 100% of the time . 

[Seraphim]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I am married for keeps but that is because I am married to someone who sees marriage- including financial aspects- as the same.  If he insisted on a prenup I'd have questioned whether we had the same financial values and values about marriage.  There is one instance in which I would sign a prenup -totally hypothetical -if the purpose was to protect the financial future of his kids.  

Also we have no prenup but we did agree in general on how we would combine our money (or not in certain respects), we discussed whether and how I'd make financial contributions in the 7 years I was a full time mom (I did-he didn't want me to or ask) and we agree generally on what is the amount of money we can spend without checking in with the other.  We agreed on my return to work, the logistics of it- the child care arrangements -all of which involve some financial decisions.  I trusted my husband when he said he was comfortable being the main financial provider when I was home full time.  

We were fortunate in that by the time we married we were both financially stable with ample savings -not the traditional young couple just starting out.  And it never occurred to either of us to try to protect what we brought into the marriage via a prenup or anything else via a prenup because we view the marital commitment similarly.  You don't -you are wanting added protection financially in the event of divorce because you don't trust his financial values or how he would behave with respect to your money if you divorced. Again I'd explore the deeper reasons why.  You won't make 350k if you have a child -or will you -do you plan on hiring a full time live in nanny or are you not interested in children? Another thing to explore as far as your financial future.

 

We married all in as well. We were a traditionally young couple but everything is in common , the only thing we don’t share is money birthday gifts from parents . 

[SophiaG]

6 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

Simple google search says average PhD in neuroscience in USA is 72k. Cali is 90k

But, the google average for a doctor is 350k! 😁

@Tinydance@Seraphim  I am of two minds on a prenup. I used to find it a turnoff as well - but I've seen people and some friends got screwed over a breakup/divorce and with the divorce rate nowadays, I can see people wanting a fair plan "just in case" - and if you were to negotiate, better do it when you are fully in love and respect each other rather than when you are breaking up and hating each other's guts, right? 😅

I still don't know how I will approach the matter if/when I get closer to marriage. It's quite common for people in our circle and I can see how I might feel the same way if I'm dating someone with significantly less financial assets or prospects. Not necessarily a prenup but at least some agreements like @Batya33 said. I think I'd be open to a prenup as long as the specifics are fair and respectful. I also like the idea of a sunset clause so the prenup only exists say for the first couple of years of the marriage. 

[Seraphim]

1 minute ago, SophiaG said:

But, the google average for a doctor is 350k! 😁

@Tinydance@Seraphim  I am of two minds on a prenup. I used to find it a turnoff as well - but I've seen people and some friends got screwed over a breakup/divorce and with the divorce rate nowadays, I can see people wanting a fair plan "just in case" - and if you were to negotiate, better do it when you are fully in love and respect each other rather than when you are breaking up and hating each other's guts, right? 😅

I still don't know how I will approach the matter if/when I get closer to marriage. It's quite common for people in our circle and I can see how I might feel the same way if I'm dating someone with significantly financial assets or prospects. Not necessarily a prenup but at least some agreements like @Batya33 said. I think I'd be open to a prenup as long as the specifics are fair and respectful. I also like the idea of a sunset clause so the prenup only exists say for the first couple of years of the marriage. 

The divorce rate is actually no worse than at the height of divorce in the 80’s in fact it is a little less. 
 

I have been married 30 years and have no plans for divorce and my religion doesn’t allow for it anyway. 
 

My brother got completely hosed in his divorce . His wife tried to get him to sign a pre nup when they were 22 and he walked and she ran after him literally down the street. They built a fortune together and he got hosed .

 

The point people are making is that she does research not medical practice so the pay may be different. 
 

 

[SophiaG]

5 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

The point people are making is that she does research not medical practice so the pay may be different. 

Oh, I was being sarcastic with that comment meaning even for a talented young doctor who managed to finish med school, residency, etc. by 27 it'd still be unlikely to immediately start earning the doctor average which probably requires at least a bit more experience.

Sorry to hear about your brother. Sure most of us never wanted a relationship/marriage to fail to begin with. But... I don't know, sometimes the unexpected does happen. I've never been married but I've experienced betrayal by people who I'd trusted to always have my best interest at heart. But no, ultimately they cared more about themselves than anyone else. So now I'm more inclined toward a "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" approach.

[rainbowsandroses]

What happened to the OP?  She seems to have disappeared....

 

[Kwothe28]

29 minutes ago, SophiaG said:

But, the google average for a doctor is 350k! 😁

 

Doctor with good specialization sure. But at 27? Eh, I highly doubt it.

32 minutes ago, SophiaG said:

I still don't know how I will approach the matter if/when I get closer to marriage. It's quite common for people in our circle and I can see how I might feel the same way if I'm dating someone with significantly less financial assets or prospects.

I think its OK for both sides now, especially now when women also earn more. Its a fairly new state of things. So I dont blame people like OP(we dont know if its a troll but there are people like her) who are in new situations like this. Its something that almost never happened before but now its a reality for some people. For example, I dont know why people like professional athletes dont do prenup all the time. You are suddenly in a situation where you earn millions. You have to protect yourself from people who would stop at nothing to get that.

Though I think some research shows that women are generally more happy with somebody who earns more or similar to them. In a reality, unless something drastically changes, there shouldnt be much discrepancy. Simply because people with similar stature seek people with similar stature. They usually have similar schools, go to same places and their "buying power" is similar. So they are unlikely to meet somebody who has more or even less than them. Because they dont usually run in same circles. 

[shouldhavelearned]

Try and find other ways to protect your assets before the marriage.

 

And yes, it's to soon to be discussing marriage if he's three months out.