My (27F) boyfriend (31M) refuses to sign a prenup?

[Lovelee56]

My boyfriend and I have been together for a year. He is recently divorced (last year) and we started dating around 3 months after. So far I have no complaints, he treats me well. 

To give background, I'm a doctor and make around 350k a year, while he's a software engineer making 90k a year. I have several rental properties, investments, and future inheritance from my family. My boyfriend doesn't have assets aside from his house and has some money in 401k however he states he has never maxed out the amount in the past few years. I pay for most things in our relationship which has mostly been dates and I have taken care of some of larger expenses for him (e.g. boarding his dogs while he go on trips and gifts for his family during holidays). I don't mind doing so because I do make significantly more and he does pay for dates occasionally. 

Recently he has been pushing the idea of marriage, which at first I found strange because he initially told me that he didn't want to rush into anything after being divorced which I agreed to because to be honest I never cared about marriage and felt like you can be committed to someone without the legal document. We were talking about it and I casually mentioned a prenup. He immediately got upset and said that I don't trust him and it's an easy out for me to leave the marriage. He also said if we divorce, he doesn't have financial security aside from moving back in with his parents. Because I grew up very comfortable financially, my father always advised me to sign a prenup because of my career and because of the family wealth just in case, and I always follow his advice. I thought it was weird how he would object especially since he is divorced, but he said him and his ex didn't have a prenup and she didn't take anything from him (he agreed to sign the prenup as long as he doesn't have to pay alimony and can keep the house). 

I'm becoming a bit suspicious because my boyfriend has opened up to me about how in his previous marriage, he was the provider and could never get his savings up because his ex was always spending his money and she only worked minimum wage jobs. He says it's a relief to him to finally have someone like me to "give him security and not be worried if he loses his job because he can rely on me." He has also made weirdly specific suggestions, such as recommending that we join bank accounts (even before marriage) and max out both of our retirement accounts. 

One night he kept insisting that I tell him how much is in my bank account and when I told him he made a comment like, "Wow, you have my whole salary in your bank." He has also been saying that his job is stressful and he would like to take a break for a while and I feel like he's hinting that he wants me to support him. 

I do love him but I feel like he sees me as financial security and I don't like that feeling. He insists that he doesn't want me for money but now I'm hesistent to follow through with the relationship because it seems like it's a big part for him.. 

[MissCanuck]

You are only 27 and already a doctor making $350 000 a year?

[Vesna]

Just now, MissCanuck said:

You are only 27 and already a doctor making $350 000 a year?

I was going to ask the same thing.

[Lovelee56]

1 minute ago, MissCanuck said:

You are only 27 and already a doctor making $350 000 a year?

 

Just now, Vesna said:

I was going to ask the same thing.

Haha I'm flattered 🙂 Yes I'm a PhD in Neuroscience working in research and neuroengineering. 

[Vesna]

5 minutes ago, Lovelee56 said:

 

Haha I'm flattered 🙂 Yes I'm a PhD in Neuroscience working in research and neuroengineering. 

I dont think they make that much.

[MissCanuck]

Righr. 

Anyway, you two shouldn't be worried about a pre-nup when you're not even close to marriage at this point. 

Frankly, I would be running the other direction from a recent divorcé who is already hinting at marriage and joining finances. 

[MissCanuck]

2 minutes ago, Vesna said:

I dont think they make that much.

My dear cousin is a pro (and PhD) in this field too, and he's been working in it a long time.  I know what he makes, and the salary quoted here sounds awfully fishy, I'm sorry to say. 

[Lovelee56]

2 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

My dear cousin is a pro (and PhD) in this field too, and he's been working in it a long time.  I know what he makes, and the salary quoted here sounds awfully fishy, I'm sorry to say. 

Okay then tell him to work harder? Lol 

I'm not sure why you're all so hung up on the salary number when I'm asking about relationship advice. 

[Lovelee56]

15 minutes ago, Vesna said:

I dont think they make that much.

It's not my fault that I worked hard and am successful in my 20's. I'm really sorry it offends you and that's not my intention but was looking for advice about something else and not debate on my salary. 

[Lovelee56]

15 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Righr. 

Anyway, you two shouldn't be worried about a pre-nup when you're not even close to marriage at this point. 

Frankly, I would be running the other direction from a recent divorcé who is already hinting at marriage and joining finances. 

I was thinking the same. Seems like he rushed into a relationship out of desperation to begin with. 

[Tinydance]

16 minutes ago, Lovelee56 said:

Okay then tell him to work harder? Lol 

I'm not sure why you're all so hung up on the salary number when I'm asking about relationship advice. 

No it's actually you who is hung up on the salary number. And your asking advice wasn't about relationship, it was about money. I think you might come to the same issue with other partners too. Personally I find pre nups really off putting. I mean if you marry someone you're meant to share your life together right? Have kids if you want kids. Like are you really going to say to your husband and father of your kids "this is MY money, this is YOUR money. Don't touch MY money." Why bother getting married then if you don't want to share your life with someone? Sharing your life does mean sharing the money. If you don't like that you don't need to get married.

[Lovelee56]

1 minute ago, Tinydance said:

No it's actually you who is hung up on the salary number. And your asking advice wasn't about relationship, it was about money. I think you might come to the same issue with other partners too. Personally I find pre nups really off putting. I mean if you marry someone you're meant to share your life together right? Have kids if you want kids. Like are you really going to say to your husband and father of your kids "this is MY money, this is YOUR money. Don't touch MY money." Why bother getting married then if you don't want to share your life with someone? Sharing your life does mean sharing the money. If you don't like that you don't need to get married.

Fair enough. I personally am not crazy about getting married, as i said, he is the one pushing for marriage and bringing it up. I am completely fine with not marrying someone but still being in a committed relationship. 

And prenup is like an insurance. Why do you have car insurance or home insurance? Do you not trust your driving enough and think you'll be reckless? No, it's "just in case". 

[Tinydance]

Just now, Lovelee56 said:

Fair enough. I personally am not crazy about getting married, as i said, he is the one pushing for marriage and bringing it up. I am completely fine with not marrying someone but still being in a committed relationship. 

And prenup is like an insurance. Why do you have car insurance or home insurance? Do you not trust your driving enough and think you'll be reckless? No, it's "just in case". 

Your partner is not a car! To me it doesn't really seem you value the person and the actual relationship but your only concern is money. But of course if that is a concern to you then you don't need to get married. It's not a requirement so that's totally your choice.

[Kwothe28]

Simple google search says average PhD in neuroscience in USA is 72k. Cali is 90k so you are saying that you are having 4 times the average at best paid cities. As a 20 year old. Without too much experience since you took time for PhD so your experience in field is very little compared to top earners who are probably way older. So yeah, highly unlikely. Whats more, software engineer is 105k average. So you are saying is that he is underperforming while you are overperforming so hugely that you are pulling 4 times more that average salary in your field lol

Anyway, if its a true story, I am glad we achieved so much equality that men can now be "Stay at home husbands" because women are pulling more. Truly equality of genders. So now women can see how men felt for years and trying to protect their money and assets from "gold diggers". Who would marry them thinking they can divorce in a year and get half of everything. Also, I will advise you what I would advise any man who would come here with same problem. If you have significantly more assets and money, dont marry without prenup. 

Also, also, marriage after 3 months? Yeah, its "fishy".

[Tinydance]

Thing is if you reverse the gender then people would think it's normal that the man provide for his partner and kids. Many men earn much more than their wife and also the wife is a stay at home mother or only working part time. And people these days do marry people not as well off as them because we don't need to marry within our own social class now.

The idea of prenup is weird to me because if you and your ex partner share 50/50 custody of your children then don't you want your children to have a nice life? Like, when they stay at his place that it's a nice place etc.? But as I said, you don't have to get married. You can also marry someone who is also well off like you. That's what people did back in the day. They married their own class so they didn't need to worry because that person was rich too.

[Lovelee56]

I'm really surprised at the viciousness here about the high salary? I'm not sure why it's so offensive to everyone. 

[Lovelee56]

6 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Thing is if you reverse the gender then people would think it's normal that the man provide for his partner and kids. Many men earn much more than their wife and also the wife is a stay at home mother or only working part time. And people these days do marry people not as well off as them because we don't need to marry within our own social class now.

The idea of prenup is weird to me because if you and your ex partner share 50/50 custody of your children then don't you want your children to have a nice life? Like, when they stay at his place that it's a nice place etc.? But as I said, you don't have to get married. You can also marry someone who is also well off like you. That's what people did back in the day. They married their own class so they didn't need to worry because that person was rich too.

Yes, if the gender roles were reversed and I was a man, I guarantee that EVERYONE would be saying that my girlfriend is a gold digger and I should leave. But of course, when the woman makes money, she's selfish and only cares about money. Typical. 

[Lovelee56]

14 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Anyway, if its a true story, I am glad we achieved so much equality that men can now be "Stay at home husbands" because women are pulling more. Truly equality of genders. So now women can see how men felt for years and trying to protect their money and assets from "gold diggers". Who would marry them thinking they can divorce in a year and get half of everything. Also, I will advise you what I would advise any man who would come here with same problem. If you have significantly more assets and money, dont marry without prenup. 

 

Yes I agree! True equality. 

But very interesting how when a woman makes more money and wants a prenup, the man isn't labeled as a gold digger if he doesn't want to sign? Hmmm. 

[Batya33]

I can share this. Around 15 years ago my friend who was in her late 30s married her boyfriend who was in her late 20s.  She likely made more than you and had made that much for years.  Self made woman.  He was a very talented and employed artist who made a fraction of what she made and was never going to make much more than he was making.  He agreed to a prenup.  I believe they are still happily married.  They have kids, too and they own an apartment and a country house.

I was never a fan of prenups for myself.  We got married where we both had significant nest eggs and we were in our early 40s and about to be parents.  We came up very easily with a way to combine finances especially since we both wanted me to be a SAHM for at least a couple of years and I was a high earner like you for the previous 15 years.  Self made woman. 

But here's a really important reason why it never crossed our minds to have a prenup.  We have extremely similar and compatible financial values and work ethic and career and professional perspectives.  We've faced some huge unanticipated expenses - like private school thanks to the pandemic -and while we obviously discussed this huge financial commitment the main issues for us was logistics - no school bus, should we move or not, etc. 

He needed a new car in 2019 after his first ever accident with our very very old car and I left it entirely up to him to decide what he wanted and why- he sought my input but I completely trust him to make good and  reasonable financial choices. I spent $$$ on new glasses because I stopped wearing contacts and wanted nice frames and to go to a really good doctor/optician.  He got a call from the credit card company to check if it was a real transaction lol.  But I mean that was it -they were much more than his glasses but again we trust and respect each other's financial decisions.

Look at why you want the prenup -really dive into that -I agree with the others.

[Tinydance]

1 minute ago, Lovelee56 said:

I'm really surprised at the viciousness here about the high salary? I'm not sure why it's so offensive to everyone. 

I don't think it's offensive. But my thoughts on it are that if let's say you do love someone and you think they're "the one". I think the idea would be to be together indefinitely. As in, it's your person and you see a future. And if you want kids you'd have kids. But wanting a prenup is like already thinking that it's going to be over and they're going to screw you over. Look everyone probably feels differently but I seem to feel the same as your partner.

But again if you just have something in your gut telling you he's a gold digger then don't marry him. Historically most women always made less than men but I don't think every woman was with them for their money. If you think this guy does only want you for your money and you get that vibe then yeah don't marry him. But I just don't really see how you can avoid dating someone who earns less than you unless you exclusively only date rich men. But again you probably can date rich men and especially if you're a doctor. You can meet other doctors.

[Lovelee56]

Just now, Tinydance said:

I don't think it's offensive. But my thoughts on it are that if let's say you do love someone and you think they're "the one". I think the idea would be to be together indefinitely. As in, it's your person and you see a future. And if you want kids you'd have kids. But wanting a prenup is like already thinking that it's going to be over and they're going to screw you over. Look everyone probably feels differently but I seem to feel the same as your partner.

But again if you just have something in your gut telling you he's a gold digger then don't marry him. Historically most women always made less than men but I don't think every woman was with them for their money. If you think this guy does only want you for your money and you get that vibe then yeah don't marry him. But I just don't really see how you can avoid dating someone who earns less than you unless you exclusively only date rich men. But again you probably can date rich men and especially if you're a doctor. You can meet other doctors.

Fair enough and I respect your opinion. There are some people who don't want prenup (for valid reasons that you mentioned) and I think maybe it's best for someone to find another partner who is aligned with finances. If you dont want prenup then don't marry someone who wants one.. I guess this is where I am right now and don't want to question the rest of my life is someone with me for money.

Genuine question though: If you never want to get a divorce, then why wouldn't you sign a prenup? If you're never going to use it then why have a problem signing? just curious

[Tinydance]

3 minutes ago, Lovelee56 said:

Yes I agree! True equality. 

But very interesting how when a woman makes more money and wants a prenup, the man isn't labeled as a gold digger if he doesn't want to sign? Hmmm. 

But my point I was making is many men do earn very significantly more than their wife. Because women for one thing get paid less and also the highly paid careers tend to be male dominated. It's starting to change but it's not 50/50 yet. But I think most men don't ask their wife to sign a prenup. It's just considered normal that the husband earns a lot more because they're a guy. 

[Lovelee56]

Just now, Tinydance said:

But my point I was making is many men do earn very significantly more than their wife. Because women for one thing get paid less and also the highly paid careers tend to be male dominated. It's starting to change but it's not 50/50 yet. But I think most men don't ask their wife to sign a prenup. It's just considered normal that the husband earns a lot more because they're a guy. 

Yes historically that's how it's been. Men were the providers and women stayed home but now that's slowly changing. 

I'm not sure what the statistics are on men asking women for prenup, but I do know of plenty of men who got completely screwed over in a divorce and lost everything to their ex wife. I'm sure they wish they had prenup. 

[Tinydance]

5 minutes ago, Lovelee56 said:

Yes historically that's how it's been. Men were the providers and women stayed home but now that's slowly changing. 

I'm not sure what the statistics are on men asking women for prenup, but I do know of plenty of men who got completely screwed over in a divorce and lost everything to their ex wife. I'm sure they wish they had prenup. 

Well yes it is changing so if it's changing the woman could be the provider right?

I just don't really see how you can fix this situation. If you're going to be asking any potential husband to sign a prenup, some will agree to sign and some won't. Maybe they're a gold digger or maybe they just feel weird about it. But if your condition is that they sign and they don't, it's over right? My honest advice would be to date men of your own wealthy standing which would actually make everything a lot less complicated. I mean if you date guys who earn less than you then you will always have that fear that they're only with you for your money.

[Lovelee56]

Just now, Tinydance said:

Well yes it is changing so if it's changing the woman could be the provider right?

I just don't really see how you can fix this situation. If you're going to be asking any potential husband to sign a prenup, some will agree to sign and some won't. Maybe they're a gold digger or maybe they just feel weird about it. But if your condition is that they sign and they don't, it's over right? My honest advice would be to date men of your own wealthy standing which would actually make everything a lot less complicated. I mean if you date guys who earn less than you then you will always have that fear that they're only with you for your money.

Yes the woman could definitely be the provider. But I feel like there's no point to someone to stay at home unless there's kids which we both agreed we don't want.