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Help, I'm at a loss with my daughter & her emotions


adee07

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I do have one mommy tip - when you notice your child behaving appropriately do not gush but let her know you noticed it and very very specifically: "I like how you waited quietly at the door and started putting on your shoes without me having to ask" "I like how you agreed to stay at the play place another five minutes even though you couldn't go through that tunnel again so mom could talk to the birthday boy's mom." 

Also "stop crying" to me only is appropriate in a really dangerous situation like where you have to be quiet to hide from danger.  Rather - (and  this is from one of the books I suggested) "you wish you could [whatever she wishes would be true/reality] and you're frustrated you can't" that kind of validation can shift tears to focus on the grounded adult. At least temporarily. 

Tough love doesn't mean stop crying. To me tough love is when I told my son in 8th grade when he called me right before leaving for his first track meet and said "I'm not going." because he was scared of failing etc I said "you are going.  you committed to going and you are going. get on that van" -had I thought there was a reason he shouldn't go -you know -he'd be bullied or it was unsafe or he didn't feel well - obviously I would have listened but I knew even though part of me wanted to be like "okkkkk angel it's only a track meet -I'll come to school now and pick you up" - nope. Tough love - and I told him later I had to do that -to make you go - in fact sometimes he'll joke "mom.... are you gonna force me to go" because he wants me to be the voice of reason and guide him in facing fears.  I didn't tell him "stop being scared" I said  -you can be scared AND keep your promise to go to the track meet and simply do your best.  Oh and that night -he came in first.

If he would whine I would say "I will listen to you when you speak in a normal voice."  So that was me having boundaries not telling him to stop whining but that I am a person who won't interact with a whiner.  Look to you it's a little thing.  To her it is not a little thing.  My husband thinks I overreact to power outages because he's not in my shoes -he doesn't do all the food shopping and he's not stressed like me about all our food going bad.  I think he overreacts when he has a Man Cold.  But we love and respect each other so I wouldn't tell him stop whining it's just a cold in that "tough love" way.

I am really sensitive to loud jarring noises.  But someone telling me "oh get over it - stop jumping at every little thing" is - really offensive.  You have to meet your daughter where she is.  Be her person, be her adult, look for outside resources and please don't do the "oh man she's just spoiled".  Very often that is not the issue.  At all.  And she was a toddler during the pandemic right so please know that perhaps having to wear masks/keep her distance feel the vibes around her of parents who were concerned or worse about getting sick or getting their parents sick - that can do a number on the nervous system.  Please just consider it. (Our son was 11 when it started).

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8 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

This

I call those "Syndrome of a spoiled child and parents who did that". A kid doesnt know where the line in the sand is. For example, a baby would cry even though nothing is wrong with them, because they know parents are coming. So its even recommended that you dont always tend the baby when it cries if you know they are clean and well fed.  Because sometimes they just cry so you would come. A parent is there to establish that line. Otherwise you would get exactly what you are getting now. Somebody so spoiled that she has tantrums and cries all the time for attention. Because nobody thought her otherwise. If she hasnt received "OMG whats wrong" after every tantrum of hers, she would know her tactics just dont work and wouldnt do them. You thought her she can receive any attention she wants by crying. And she simply does that. So this is on you and your lack of parenting.

Ofcourse, it can be any number of issues. So it would be smart that she goes to good psychologist so they can get assessment of her. But, as somebody who works with kids, my assessment is that its what Ive said. Sadly, lots of parents make that mistake now. So we at school receive not well adjusted children. Who are let everything at home so when they come to school and need to socialize, they crumble. Teacher at preschool even complained to me yesterday about that. And that especially male children are affected by that. School is there to not just educate but also teach them how to behave. So yes, maybe somebody more strict would do the trick like your husbands coach did. But they would need your help in doing so. So if psychologists say how there is nothing wrong with her, its up to you and them to re-educate her. 

I actually didn't appreciate this post. We are far from parents who spoil. She's not an only child either.

In fact, we've been told by others that we have been a little rough with her at times. Trust me when I say I have been around plenty of children of all ages myself and that's part of the reason I know her behavior isn't normal. Do you think it's normal to not like the way certain clothes feel? Complete loss of control because her pants felt "too loose" or underwear were "too tight". She also has to wear socks constantly, especially to bed,  because she literally can't stand the way things feel on her feet.  

She also always struggled with food textures.  Gagging. So bad that a daycare provider started trying to force her to eat things (vegetables are the worst) and made her vomit multiple times. This has gotten better with age, in fact she tries so hard to try her foods when we say she needs to, but will still gag & cringe. 

Loud noises have always upset her. Again, this has improved with age, but she still screams out loud if something startles her. 

I could go on and on with things that are different and difficult with her.....do you still think this is all because she's "spoiled" ??

I should mention she was born premature and was in the NICU first few weeks of life too, which I know can predispose them to issues such as these too.

Edited to add:  I'm making an assumption based on your entry that you're a teacher or someone who works in schools. I appreciate the work teachers do, however a lot of teachers act just like you. Thinking every kid is "spoiled" and that the job is "so hard". This drives me crazy. My sister in law is a teacher and I can't stand her and her high horse. There are SO many important professions out there. Also- no one forces a person to be in a certain job. Move on if you have a bitter outlook on children.

Your entry has really rubbed me the wrong way, however that's probably because it's the internet and I don't think you quite grasped our actual situation. On a subject that has clearly been an issue for us for years, and we're trying to do the right things and get our daughter help...... your post was just not appropriate. I'd be curious to know if you have children yourself? How old are you? Because literally my grandmother (with mental health issues-depression, anxiety) also claims to not tend to babies when they cry... who says that this day and age? They are BABIES. Geesh. Grow a heart. 

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1 minute ago, adee07 said:

I actually didn't appreciate this post. We are far from parents who spoil. She's not an only child either.

In fact, we've been told by others that we have been a little rough with her at times. Trust me when I say I have been around plenty of children of all ages myself and that's part of the reason I know her behavior isn't normal. Do you think it's normal to not like the way certain clothes feel? Complete loss of control because her pants felt "too loose" or underwear were "too tight". She also has to wear socks constantly, especially to bed,  because she literally can't stand the way things feel on her feet.  

She also always struggled with food textures.  Gagging. So bad that a daycare provider started trying to force her to eat things (vegetables are the worst) and made her vomit multiple times. This has gotten better with age, in fact she tries so hard to try her foods when we say she needs to, but will still gag & cringe. 

Loud noises have always upset her. Again, this has improved with age, but she still screams out loud if something startles her. 

I could go on and on with things that are different and difficult with her.....do you still think this is all because she's "spoiled" ??

I can guarantee she is neurodivergent. Please explore this and learn NON ABA strategies to help her deal with the world. 
 

My husband has suffered so much for the way he was treated he has had life long mental health issues starting from toddlerhood. In grade school he was passing out from stress and he progressed to a suicide attempt in his early 30’s. Emotionally pounding him like his family did and emotionally severely mistreating him has affected every single part of his life and not for the better . Gentleness and guidance and boundaries and understanding and accommodating work much much much better . We have done this for our son and he has not even a fraction of his father’s mental health struggles. 

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2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I do have one mommy tip - when you notice your child behaving appropriately do not gush but let her know you noticed it and very very specifically: "I like how you waited quietly at the door and started putting on your shoes without me having to ask" "I like how you agreed to stay at the play place another five minutes even though you couldn't go through that tunnel again so mom could talk to the birthday boy's mom." 

Also "stop crying" to me only is appropriate in a really dangerous situation like where you have to be quiet to hide from danger.  Rather - (and  this is from one of the books I suggested) "you wish you could [whatever she wishes would be true/reality] and you're frustrated you can't" that kind of validation can shift tears to focus on the grounded adult. At least temporarily. 

Tough love doesn't mean stop crying. To me tough love is when I told my son in 8th grade when he called me right before leaving for his first track meet and said "I'm not going." because he was scared of failing etc I said "you are going.  you committed to going and you are going. get on that van" -had I thought there was a reason he shouldn't go -you know -he'd be bullied or it was unsafe or he didn't feel well - obviously I would have listened but I knew even though part of me wanted to be like "okkkkk angel it's only a track meet -I'll come to school now and pick you up" - nope. Tough love - and I told him later I had to do that -to make you go - in fact sometimes he'll joke "mom.... are you gonna force me to go" because he wants me to be the voice of reason and guide him in facing fears.  I didn't tell him "stop being scared" I said  -you can be scared AND keep your promise to go to the track meet and simply do your best.  Oh and that night -he came in first.

If he would whine I would say "I will listen to you when you speak in a normal voice."  So that was me having boundaries not telling him to stop whining but that I am a person who won't interact with a whiner.  Look to you it's a little thing.  To her it is not a little thing.  My husband thinks I overreact to power outages because he's not in my shoes -he doesn't do all the food shopping and he's not stressed like me about all our food going bad.  I think he overreacts when he has a Man Cold.  But we love and respect each other so I wouldn't tell him stop whining it's just a cold in that "tough love" way.

I am really sensitive to loud jarring noises.  But someone telling me "oh get over it - stop jumping at every little thing" is - really offensive.  You have to meet your daughter where she is.  Be her person, be her adult, look for outside resources and please don't do the "oh man she's just spoiled".  Very often that is not the issue.  At all.  And she was a toddler during the pandemic right so please know that perhaps having to wear masks/keep her distance feel the vibes around her of parents who were concerned or worse about getting sick or getting their parents sick - that can do a number on the nervous system.  Please just consider it. (Our son was 11 when it started).

This was very well written, thank you! And yes you are correct, she was 2 when the pandemic started and we did stay home A LOT and of course wore masks outside of the home and were worried about getting sick etc. We have tried a few of the things you've mentioned, but will keep trying. In fact, she had a soccer game this morning and before it started, I sat with her quietly & asked her what would help when she's feeling frustrated and overwhelmed at her game. We decided on deep breaths again, literally "shrugging it off", and looking over at mom & dad for a thumbs up and smile because she can always count on us. It actually went well! She had a few moments, but she was trying SO hard to collect herself. I'm sure we will go through this every time, as we've done this for 2 other seasons now. But after her game we told her how we noticed she worked so hard on her breathing and got right back in there. 

Thank you for sharing your personal experiences!

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51 minutes ago, adee07 said:

I actually didn't appreciate this post. We are far from parents who spoil. She's not an only child either.

 

That is OK. Some people will rather accept that its circumstances beyond their control like being "neurodivergent"(popular online diagnosis btw, every kid that is misbehaving online is neurodivergent) than to accept responsibility that it was their mistakes in raising the kid. Even though the second one would be far easier to correct than the first one. 

Also, do you think spoiled kids are only some rich only kids whos parents buy them everything? You can spoil the kid in different ways than one. 

1 hour ago, adee07 said:

I could go on and on with things that are different and difficult with her.....do you still think this is all because she's "spoiled" ??

 

Actually, it only reinforces my thoughts. A kid who has been born prematurely and overprotected from the start? Competing for attention with siblings(is one younger than her, they love to ask attention if there are younger kids around)? Allowed everything under the sun without any thought that maybe you could mitigate some of her behavior by just saying "No" and ignoring her tantrums instead of allowing them. 

I am not saying she cant be neurodivergent. You need an expert opinion on that and tests being done. Just saying those kind of diagnosis, when they arent online, are very rare ones. And that lots of those stuff would already be noticed by the school system. We have procedures in place for kids like that. Meaning individual learning programs and even somebody who would work with them. My advice is to actually bring child to psychologist to get what it could be. Maybe I am wrong, maybe you are wrong. In any case, its in your interest to know what it is. Surprised you already didnt do that, lots of parents do when they notice stuff like that. But its not to late even now.

1 hour ago, adee07 said:

Edited to add:  I'm making an assumption based on your entry that you're a teacher or someone who works in schools. I appreciate the work teachers do, however a lot of teachers act just like you. Thinking every kid is "spoiled" and that the job is "so hard". This drives me crazy. My sister in law is a teacher and I can't stand her and her high horse. There are SO many important professions out there. Also- no one forces a person to be in a certain job. Move on if you have a bitter outlook on children.

 

I actually like my job and like working with kids. Now who is making assumption about stuff. Sure, there are difficult ones. I even worked with special needs children. But kids, unlike some adults, are ready to listen and learn some stuff. They can be educated so they wont have troubles later in life. I dont think my profession is more important than some others. But my profession is important precisely because if you dont do your job properly, we need to be the ones to correct that. Its far easier to do that with you involved. Whether if it is or isnt neurodivergent. 

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More you say, more clear it seems to be an issue of neurodivergent/sensitivity. That you obviously are so concerned indicates to me that you aren't the type of parent to spoil or coddle a child. You seem like good parents who want to do right for her, you're just at a loss on how to handle it. 

That's understandable as it's not a topic traditionally talked about. The old school mentality of toughen up still is strong for a lot of people. Even handling our mental and emotional health in general is still having to gain traction.

None of us are professionals, so see someone who is. Know you are doing a good job and doing your best. It's a challenging thing to face and you'll learn as you go. But if you face it with openness, love, and understanding, you will see improvements and help her get to a happier and less anxious state.

FYI, my mother and sister both worked in education. My sister home schooled her yougest due to learning disabilities. Both of them were understanding towards students individual needs and didn't judge the child or the parents. There are some teachers set in old ways, but I think things are getting much better in how we work with children to meet them where they are instead of telling them how they should act or feel.

2 hours ago, Seraphim said:

My husband has suffered so much for the way he was treated he has had life long mental health issues starting from toddlerhood. In grade school he was passing out from stress and he progressed to a suicide attempt in his early 30’s.

Seraphim, I'm sorry and shocked by how both your husband and soon have been treated at times. I don't get the mentality of some people, to treat others as if they are the problem. That just makes it infinitely worse. 

Glad you all could come out of things better off and healthier people - in spite of what you went through, not because of it. Also glad society is making progress on these matters, even if there is still work to be done.

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2 hours ago, adee07 said:

This was very well written, thank you! And yes you are correct, she was 2 when the pandemic started and we did stay home A LOT and of course wore masks outside of the home and were worried about getting sick etc. We have tried a few of the things you've mentioned, but will keep trying. In fact, she had a soccer game this morning and before it started, I sat with her quietly & asked her what would help when she's feeling frustrated and overwhelmed at her game. We decided on deep breaths again, literally "shrugging it off", and looking over at mom & dad for a thumbs up and smile because she can always count on us. It actually went well! She had a few moments, but she was trying SO hard to collect herself. I'm sure we will go through this every time, as we've done this for 2 other seasons now. But after her game we told her how we noticed she worked so hard on her breathing and got right back in there. 

Thank you for sharing your personal experiences!

Are you sure she actually does enjoy and benefit from soccer enough? Definitely read Out of Sync Child. Oh and teaching was my first career out of college -for 3 years -licensed in K-6.  I worked so hard and I loved teaching children.  I left for two reasons - being too young/inexperienced to deal with the politics of the administrations I worked for plus when I didn't marry young I realized I wanted to pursue my second dream career sooner to make more $ and so I did but I worked with children as a volunteer for 7 years before I had my son in 2009. 

That's awesome that she is working hard!

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3 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

More you say, more clear it seems to be an issue of neurodivergent/sensitivity. That you obviously are so concerned indicates to me that you aren't the type of parent to spoil or coddle a child. You seem like good parents who want to do right for her, you're just at a loss on how to handle it. 

That's understandable as it's not a topic traditionally talked about. The old school mentality of toughen up still is strong for a lot of people. Even handling our mental and emotional health in general is still having to gain traction.

None of us are professionals, so see someone who is. Know you are doing a good job and doing your best. It's a challenging thing to face and you'll learn as you go. But if you face it with openness, love, and understanding, you will see improvements and help her get to a happier and less anxious state.

FYI, my mother and sister both worked in education. My sister home schooled her yougest due to learning disabilities. Both of them were understanding towards students individual needs and didn't judge the child or the parents. There are some teachers set in old ways, but I think things are getting much better in how we work with children to meet them where they are instead of telling them how they should act or feel.

Seraphim, I'm sorry and shocked by how both your husband and soon have been treated at times. I don't get the mentality of some people, to treat others as if they are the problem. That just makes it infinitely worse. 

Glad you all could come out of things better off and healthier people - in spite of what you went through, not because of it. Also glad society is making progress on these matters, even if there is still work to be done.

Yes, it is shocking how  people who are different are treated . My husband and son are very gentle souls. My husband was very sensitive and was sold down the river so to speak by both parents and now he hides his sensitivity. It comes out at times especially during extreme stress and he crashes. FINALLY at 55 he had his neurodiversity addressed and he is doing so so so much better mentally. It breaks my heart and soul to see how people are treated. 

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1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

That is OK. Some people will rather accept that its circumstances beyond their control like being "neurodivergent"(popular online diagnosis btw, every kid that is misbehaving online is neurodivergent) than to accept responsibility that it was their mistakes in raising the kid. Even though the second one would be far easier to correct than the first one. 

Also, do you think spoiled kids are only some rich only kids whos parents buy them everything? You can spoil the kid in different ways than one. 

Actually, it only reinforces my thoughts. A kid who has been born prematurely and overprotected from the start? Competing for attention with siblings(is one younger than her, they love to ask attention if there are younger kids around)? Allowed everything under the sun without any thought that maybe you could mitigate some of her behavior by just saying "No" and ignoring her tantrums instead of allowing them. 

I am not saying she cant be neurodivergent. You need an expert opinion on that and tests being done. Just saying those kind of diagnosis, when they arent online, are very rare ones. And that lots of those stuff would already be noticed by the school system. We have procedures in place for kids like that. Meaning individual learning programs and even somebody who would work with them. My advice is to actually bring child to psychologist to get what it could be. Maybe I am wrong, maybe you are wrong. In any case, its in your interest to know what it is. Surprised you already didnt do that, lots of parents do when they notice stuff like that. But its not to late even now.

I actually like my job and like working with kids. Now who is making assumption about stuff. Sure, there are difficult ones. I even worked with special needs children. But kids, unlike some adults, are ready to listen and learn some stuff. They can be educated so they wont have troubles later in life. I dont think my profession is more important than some others. But my profession is important precisely because if you dont do your job properly, we need to be the ones to correct that. Its far easier to do that with you involved. Whether if it is or isnt neurodivergent. 

Lol honestly you are so far off track. I feel pretty bad for any children who have you as a caregiver, poor things. The fact that you can't adapt with the times is sad. Neurodivergent, ADHD, ADD, Austism.... these are REAL. I work in healthcare and am pretty highly educated, not that you can't be intelligent without higher education, but damn I'm just in complete shock of the way you speak.

It's like you're making up a story of who you think we are and how we parent. No clue where you are getting your info. I bet you'd be flushed with embarrassment if you knew how far off you are with how we have parented our child and handled tantrums. It's almost laughable, actually.  Coddled because she was premature.....uh what???? Lol

Thanks anyways, but it seems you are a person who lacks compassion, has maybe never raised children of your own (?), and is very close minded. I don't have the energy to spend on reading your fairy tale stories you've made up about a perfectly good strangers life. 

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1 hour ago, ShySoul said:

More you say, more clear it seems to be an issue of neurodivergent/sensitivity. That you obviously are so concerned indicates to me that you aren't the type of parent to spoil or coddle a child. You seem like good parents who want to do right for her, you're just at a loss on how to handle it. 

That's understandable as it's not a topic traditionally talked about. The old school mentality of toughen up still is strong for a lot of people. Even handling our mental and emotional health in general is still having to gain traction.

None of us are professionals, so see someone who is. Know you are doing a good job and doing your best. It's a challenging thing to face and you'll learn as you go. But if you face it with openness, love, and understanding, you will see improvements and help her get to a happier and less anxious state.

FYI, my mother and sister both worked in education. My sister home schooled her yougest due to learning disabilities. Both of them were understanding towards students individual needs and didn't judge the child or the parents. There are some teachers set in old ways, but I think things are getting much better in how we work with children to meet them where they are instead of telling them how they should act or feel.

Seraphim, I'm sorry and shocked by how both your husband and soon have been treated at times. I don't get the mentality of some people, to treat others as if they are the problem. That just makes it infinitely worse. 

Glad you all could come out of things better off and healthier people - in spite of what you went through, not because of it. Also glad society is making progress on these matters, even if there is still work to be done.

I truly appreciate you taking the time to give your opinion and suggestions. We really are trying and have also tried many different ways of parenting too.... she is definitely one who responds better to calm & gentle. If we get upset (which still happens at times), she just spirals worse and it's like she can't listen. For example:  she will start banging her hand or feet on wall or dresser over and over and over while staring off, periodically yelling. When she gets like that-its like trying to talk to a rock. It's been maddening at times, but we've come to realize we have to first let her snap out of that before she can talk/listen.

I came on here completely aware that no one knows us personally, but have mostly felt very comforted by the feedback I've gotten from people like you,  thank you!  We will keep on,  keepin' on and get the direction we need to hopefully get our girl the help/boundaries she needs! 

Side note: I started reading into the highly sensitive child aspect and wow, it really hit home. 

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1 hour ago, adee07 said:

Lol honestly you are so far off track. I feel pretty bad for any children who have you as a caregiver, poor things. The fact that you can't adapt with the times is sad. Neurodivergent, ADHD, ADD, Austism.... these are REAL. I work in healthcare and am pretty highly educated, not that you can't be intelligent without higher education, but damn I'm just in complete shock of the way you speak.

 

And they say my words are hurtful. When there are people directly insulting me lol

Please find me where did I say that autism isnt real. When I said that I worked(and in a way still do) with people with autism. If you are not a troll, you are somebody who is pretty much arguing in bad faith. I tried to help but clearly, anything that is not confirming complete absolution of guilt from your side, is unacceptable to you. So dont worry, I have no interest in wasting my time on you. 

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You are putting in so much effort -reading the book, trying different methods.  You are a good and well intentioned parent IMO.  

I'll tell you a story. I have a friend who I catch up with by phone occasionally.  Often it's while I'm folding laundry, doing dishes -you know. The other day I was wrapping a piece of fruit in aluminum foil and she exclaimed "what's that sound???" I promise you it was reasonably quiet foil, reasonably quiet process and the fruit was on the counter not like next to my ear.  I wasn't on speaker.

She-freaked out a bit- had to put her phone on speaker -told me she has really sensitive ears, that her sibling tells her like I did "but i was just....[minor task with crinkling paper]."  She kept talking about it too - she had to recover.  So yes it's a thing.  I buy tagless clothes because my son used to have sort of like eczema so  the tags of course bothered him.  

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Yes autism is real and unfortunately "back in the day" people had no idea what it was. So they actually did just call someone a brat and drama queen if they had meltdowns or blamed the parent. The sensitivity to textures, food, clothes, all sound like symptoms of it. I have friends who are on the spectrum who will eat only certain foods. These are people who are 40. Or they can tell if they wear two black socks but they're not from the same pair and they feel so uncomfortable and off because they "feel" the texture of the socks isn't the same.

It's so hard as a parent to navigate a balance between spoiling your child and actually validating their emotional needs. And this is not just psychobabble but if you study psychology, you learn that babies or children who have parents always ignore them makes the child develop an avoidant or anxious attachment style. And yes you need to be firm if the child is acting out but they also need to know that you care if they're struggling. That they are listening.

My parents moved around a lot when I was in my early teens and I had to go to four different high schools. Basically would only spend a few months or one year at a school. Soon as I made any friends my parents moved to another town or state even. I didn't have any friends most of the time and I was actually getting bullied a lot. I came home from school every day and cried. My Dad couldn't handle emotions and he'd just yell things along the lines of: "Stop whingeing, get over it!" I mean, yes I was crying but it was for a reason. And he didn't listen and didn't care.

I think especially if you have a very small child, they can't explain themselves. They just don't have enough vocabulary or they don't understand what it is even if they could explain it. And often acting out is for a reason. This is purely only an example but children who are abused act out and act aggressive. They can't explain it but you bet they have a reason for it.

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Also this article, point number 3.

"Validate and help to manage your child’s feelings

Children are learning to understand and regulate their emotions.  Parents play the role of a safe haven in this: noticing how their child is feeling, helping to name those emotions and providing the message that all emotions are natural and serve a purpose.  When children experience emotional invalidation, that is, the message that certain emotions are not acceptable to express, barriers to sharing are created, along with the sense that connection is conditional.

Children and youth also need their parents to guide them in managing the full range of emotions.  For example, anger itself is not a problem, but we do need to help our children learn how to acknowledge and manage it in a healthy way.  Staying with an upset child and guiding them in managing their emotions will help them learn how to do that on their own and will strengthen attachment."

https://ctrinstitute.com/blog/stronger-attachment-with-children/

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I know of many children of my friends who are not on the spectrum and have some sort of sensory disorder so this is why I am hesitant to label any of this with a diagnosis -best left to the professionals.

I also highly recommend Janet Lansbury's website.

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