Have the conversation?

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, MissCanuck said:

Me neither. I despise this, actually. I don't like the assumption from the caller that I can stop whatever I'm  doing and hold my phone to my face. 

However, on the occasion that I get a spontaneous video call (from someone I know, obviously), I return their call and let them know when I am available to talk on video, and arrange for a mutually-convenient time. (assuming I actually want to speak to them this way)

This guy? Not sure you're getting the full story from him, OP. See if he returns your call. He may not have been able to answer at that moment, but if he doesn't get back to you at all, you will know something is not right. 

 

I was going to say that -my nieces do this unscheduled call typically to show me something with their kids and yes I have done a few scheduled ones although it's really not for me. I always respond with -sorry not available, how about ___.

[MissCanuck]

18 minutes ago, MCsquared said:

but this doesn’t sound odd to anyone? 

Well, yes. In fact several of us have said so. 

It would be one thing if he weren't able to take your call at that moment but otherwise acknowledged it and replied somehow. But he hasn't done that. Let that be your signal to let this guy go. 

21 minutes ago, MCsquared said:

I can’t understand what he could be hiding

A girlfriend or wife. 

[Vesna]

13 minutes ago, MCsquared said:

So far no text, call or a response of any kind. I can understand not being able to chat, even for five minutes, but to not acknowledge it at all….even if he was annoyed that I called “ out of the blue” which I didn’t, don’t you send a response or hit an automatic reply saying can’t talk now or call back? What’s so horrible about a video call? In this day and age with Teams and Zooms calls being a normal thing? 

I also did only video after he told me he wanted to see a video of the garden, so he was accessible to his phone. If he’s sitting in a hotel room, by himself, what would have prevented him from picking up? Or shooting a text back? I don’t feel entitled that he should drop everything for me but this doesn’t sound odd to anyone? 

I’m tired of analyzing this, and I did what I do, I can’t undo it. I’m not reaching out to him…I feel the behavior is odd, I can’t understand what he could be hiding but this doesn’t work for me anymore then I have nothing to regret. I can’t handle being just friends with someone whom I want more with. I’ll never be able to let myself look for a relationship while he is hanging the wings. It wouldn’t be fair to the person I’m dating that this guy would always take priority. Especially if this guy has a relationship with someone else already and I’m just a fool sitting by waiting for him to play with me when he’s ready. I do feel bad that I couldn’t sit in the uncertainty and just consider him a friend but you don’t have to accept friend status with someone you wanted to date. Maybe I ruined a friendship but it is what it is. 

You’re right on everything you just wrote above, now stick to your guns on this. Don’t change your mind;you made the right decision. Personally, I don’t think this guy was flying anywhere. It was just a made up story. And like others said above, he was either hiding a girlfriend/wife and or didn’t look anything like his profile picture. 
 

Next time, try not to get so emotionally vested in the person so quickly. And either meet in person or video call within the week. Good Luck!
 

 

[yogacat]

3 hours ago, MCsquared said:

So far no text, call or a response of any kind. I can understand not being able to chat, even for five minutes, but to not acknowledge it at all….even if he was annoyed that I called “ out of the blue” which I didn’t, don’t you send a response or hit an automatic reply saying can’t talk now or call back? What’s so horrible about a video call? In this day and age with Teams and Zooms calls being a normal thing? 

I also did only video after he told me he wanted to see a video of the garden, so he was accessible to his phone. If he’s sitting in a hotel room, by himself, what would have prevented him from picking up? Or shooting a text back? I don’t feel entitled that he should drop everything for me but this doesn’t sound odd to anyone? 

I’m tired of analyzing this, and I did what I do, I can’t undo it. I’m not reaching out to him…I feel the behavior is odd, I can’t understand what he could be hiding but this doesn’t work for me anymore then I have nothing to regret. I can’t handle being just friends with someone whom I want more with. I’ll never be able to let myself look for a relationship while he is hanging the wings. It wouldn’t be fair to the person I’m dating that this guy would always take priority. Especially if this guy has a relationship with someone else already and I’m just a fool sitting by waiting for him to play with me when he’s ready. I do feel bad that I couldn’t sit in the uncertainty and just consider him a friend but you don’t have to accept friend status with someone you wanted to date. Maybe I ruined a friendship but it is what it is. 

Don't beat yourself up over suggesting the video call.

In a way, it's good you did, as that forced his hand without you having to spell out your concerns. You also suggested meeting him. You showed initiative, took action.

Not having answered or acknowledged either, in a way, made things a little clearer. You haven't lost anything because you never had anything in the first place. Nothing has happened. Nobody did anything. It is a simple thing where he was not as interested as you have thought, for whatever reason.

It was just one of those kinds of situations where it didn't click, and something wasn't right. It is, in that when you walk on a sidewalk, especially one crowded with people, the notable ones could be that group of people being rather loud, or they might wear this bright color. You don't have to know everybody's name or life story to feel like something about these peoples' energies don't align, or they may have an attitude problem, or maybe they're just a little off.

What you did was great. You allowed him to show, without having to show it, what he was made of. You also didn't need to tell him anything about how you feel just then, which would have made it too easy on him. You put the ball in his court with grace and finesse. 

[MCsquared]

7 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Don't beat yourself up over suggesting the video call.

In a way, it's good you did, as that forced his hand without you having to spell out your concerns. You also suggested meeting him. You showed initiative, took action.

Not having answered or acknowledged either, in a way, made things a little clearer. You haven't lost anything because you never had anything in the first place. Nothing has happened. Nobody did anything. It is a simple thing where he was not as interested as you have thought, for whatever reason.

It was just one of those kinds of situations where it didn't click, and something wasn't right. It is, in that when you walk on a sidewalk, especially one crowded with people, the notable ones could be that group of people being rather loud, or they might wear this bright color. You don't have to know everybody's name or life story to feel like something about these peoples' energies don't align, or they may have an attitude problem, or maybe they're just a little off.

What you did was great. You allowed him to show, without having to show it, what he was made of. You also didn't need to tell him anything about how you feel just then, which would have made it too easy on him. You put the ball in his court with grace and finesse. 

Thank you for this. I'm going to second guess myself for a while, it is my nature so I really appreciate this. I'll look back on it when I feel I need to reach out to him. I can't respect myself and do that. It would be one thing if he does and explains himself etc but it has to come from him. Then I can decide if I want to proceed as long distance friends. 

[MissCanuck]

28 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Don't beat yourself up over suggesting the video call.

Yes, exactly. To be clear OP, I don't think it was a bad thing to suggest a video call. In fact, it's what I would have done too. I would want to know if the person I'd been talking to for months is actually who they say they are. 

Would I have spontaneously video.-called? No, but that's not even the concern. The concern is that he hasn't since replied or acknowledged your call in any way. He had already indicated he'd been open to a video-call so to not have followed up at all since you attempted to call him is very strange. 

You might yet hear from him. But I would be very cautious in proceeding at all. Even if he's the man he says he is and is indeed single, this doesn't seem like it was ever a very viable prospect given the distance. Keep that mind in case he circles back around to you. 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

@MCsquaredI echo others, please don't  second guess yourself for asking, you did right thing!!

Earlier I had suggested that you tell him you would visit him and gauge his response but your video call suggestion was just as good. Even better actually!

I mentioned this earlier but I'm convinced now, this man is an "avoidant" or however we wish to label such people who fear emotional intimacy and commitment.

I should know I used to be one myself!  I may even still be on some level.

Much of it has to do with anxiety and fear (of vulnerability, emotional closeness and  intimacy).

That's precisely why he's so "jokey" with you, it's a cover for this vulnerability and a way to "avoid" feeling it! 

Avoidants also prefer online interactions versus real life relationships for this reason as well. 

Preferably long distance! It's a built-in excuse to avoid in-person real life dating experiences and relationships without looking like a *** when they're unable meet. 

Truth is due to their anxiety, they don't want to meet and will string you along until you start asking for more. 

Which is exactly what HE did imho. 

Even the video call was too much for him!  

There are different types of social anxiety for different reasons, but anxiety is the predominant feeling. 

Those who don't or never experienced this type of anxiety will find it difficult to understand but it's a very real thing for some people.   Again, I'm one of those people. 

Not as severe as I used to be because I've done a lot of internal work after I decided to stop running away.  From people, from life! 

I'm speaking personally of course and speculating but given everything that's gone down thus far, it makes sense to me that this may possibly be HIS issue as well..

I'm curious, did he contact you first on the dating app? If so, did you ever ask yourself why, IF he IS seeking to date and have a relationship, why he would choose you given the distance? 

Him asking to meet up spontaneously when he was in your area makes perfect sense to me.

I've done this!   It's how I met my last two boyfriends in fact!

One I met on the elevator in my building, we basically clicked immediately, he asked me to meet him that night for a drink and I went!  Dated approximately three months.  It's not my thread so won't get into why we split. 

I love spontaneous dates like that, some of my most fun dates have been spontaneous!  Many have led to LTRs and one marriage. 

Less chance of overthinking and feeling that dreaded anxiety and thus flaking is one reason.  For ME but perhaps for others as well. 

As posted earlier, we all have our own path, our own journey.  What "works" for one may not necessarily work for another.

Anyway just some thoughts fwiw.  It's wasn't about you, so please don't feel you did anything "wrong" or pushed him away or whatever you're telling yourself.

This was doomed straight from the get-go due to HIS issues. 

Again I'm so sorry it didn't go your way, and hope you feel better soon!  💛

 

 

[MCsquared]

2 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@MCsquaredI echo others, please don't  second guess yourself for asking, you did right thing!!

Earlier I had suggested that you tell him you would visit him and gauge his response but your video call suggestion was just as good. Even better actually!

I mentioned this earlier but I'm convinced now, this man is an "avoidant" or however we wish to label such people who fear emotional intimacy and commitment.

I should know I used to be one myself!  I may even still be on some level.

Much of it has to do with anxiety and fear (of vulnerability, emotional closeness and  intimacy).

That's precisely why he's so "jokey" with you, it's a cover for this vulnerability and a way to "avoid" feeling it! 

Avoidants also prefer online interactions versus real life relationships for this reason as well. 

Preferably long distance! It's a built-in excuse to avoid in-person real life dating experiences and relationships without looking like a *** when they're unable meet. 

Truth is due to their anxiety, they don't want to meet and will string you along until you start asking for more. 

Which is exactly what HE did imho. 

Even the video call was too much for him!  

There are different types of social anxiety for different reasons, but anxiety is the predominant feeling. 

Those who don't or never experienced this type of anxiety will find it difficult to understand but it's a very real thing for some people.   Again, I'm one of those people. 

Not as severe as I used to be because I've done a lot of internal work after I decided to stop running away.  From people, from life! 

I'm speaking personally of course and speculating but given everything that's gone down thus far, it makes sense to me that this may possibly be HIS issue as well..

I'm curious, did he contact you first on the dating app? If so, did you ever ask yourself why, IF he IS seeking to date and have a relationship, why he would choose you given the distance? 

Him asking to meet up spontaneously when he was in your area makes perfect sense to me.

I've done this!   It's how I met my last two boyfriends in fact!

One I met on the elevator in my building, we basically clicked immediately, he asked me to meet him that night for a drink and I went!  Dated approximately three months.  It's not my thread so won't get into why we split. 

I love spontaneous dates like that, some of my most fun dates have been spontaneous!  Many have led to LTRs and one marriage. 

Less chance of overthinking and feeling that dreaded anxiety and thus flaking is one reason.  For ME but perhaps for others as well. 

As posted earlier, we all have our own path, our own journey.  What "works" for one may not necessarily work for another.

Anyway just some thoughts fwiw.  It's wasn't about you, so please don't feel you did anything "wrong" or pushed him away or whatever you're telling yourself.

This was doomed straight from the get-go due to HIS issues. 

Again I'm so sorry it didn't go your way, and hope you feel better soon!  💛

 

 

We met on Bumble. I swiped on him because he was in my neighborhood and I thought oh well let's try him at least he's local. Then when we matched he told me he was in town for work. Nothing in his profile stated he traveled for work or where he lives. 

I did ask him after started talking for a few weeks...if he knew I lived here and he was just traveling through, why did he swipe on me? He said honestly first it was attraction and then he started getting to know me.

I appreciate all the kind feedback. It really helps because I keep wondering if I should do something to fix this. I feel bad if he just truly wanted a friend and I pushed and ruined it but why be on a dating app or be using the dating app function? He's deleted his profile a few weeks ago but maybe he has another one? I can't speculate anymore. He knows how to reach me if he wants to. I'm still shocked by his behavior...so maybe it is for the best.

[MCsquared]

4 hours ago, yogacat said:

Don't beat yourself up over suggesting the video call.

In a way, it's good you did, as that forced his hand without you having to spell out your concerns. You also suggested meeting him. You showed initiative, took action.

Not having answered or acknowledged either, in a way, made things a little clearer. You haven't lost anything because you never had anything in the first place. Nothing has happened. Nobody did anything. It is a simple thing where he was not as interested as you have thought, for whatever reason.

It was just one of those kinds of situations where it didn't click, and something wasn't right. It is, in that when you walk on a sidewalk, especially one crowded with people, the notable ones could be that group of people being rather loud, or they might wear this bright color. You don't have to know everybody's name or life story to feel like something about these peoples' energies don't align, or they may have an attitude problem, or maybe they're just a little off.

What you did was great. You allowed him to show, without having to show it, what he was made of. You also didn't need to tell him anything about how you feel just then, which would have made it too easy on him. You put the ball in his court with grace and finesse. 

Thank you for this. I'm going to second guess myself for a while, it is my nature so I really appreciate this. I'll look back on it when I feel I need to reach out to him. I can't respect myself and do that. It would be one thing if he does and explains himself etc but it has to come from him. Then I can decide if I want to proceed as long distance friends. 

[MCsquared]

@rainbowsandroses, do you think there ever would have been a point that he would let down his guard and want to get past this avoidant attachment? I can't see how i could out wait him anymore, to see if he would ever come around. Like someone said even if he did we don't live near each other. And as much as I enjoy him I want more than friendship but I feel bad letting him down..if that makes sense. If he's just not capable.

 

[shouldhavelearned]

If he doesn't live close and it's not your thing ...don't bother and just move on.

[SophiaG]

1 hour ago, MCsquared said:

Then when we matched he told me he was in town for work. Nothing in his profile stated he traveled for work or where he lives. 

Next time something like this happens, just tell them enjoy their stay and unmatch. 

Him wanting a friend or whatever doesn't mean you are obligated to provide what he wants. Pleasing everyone out there is not your job. Prioritize your own wants and needs. He let you down and he's not feeling bad about it - neither should you.

I wouldn't care if he's avoidant or a catfish or what he's thinking or if he'll come back around at this point. He's not available to date and wasn't exactly a good friend either. The few times I made a friend out of a dating app match we were very transparent and explicit in our communications and there was a clear shift from potentially romantic to friendship. Instead he's being vague and dodgy and stringing you along with mixed signals. Take this as a lesson and stay away from unavailable men.

[rainbowsandroses]

2 hours ago, MCsquared said:

We met on Bumble. I swiped on him because he was in my neighborhood and I thought oh well let's try him at least he's local. Then when we matched he told me he was in town for work. Nothing in his profile stated he traveled for work or where he lives. 

^Thank you for this additional context, wow.  Makes a difference.

So if I've got this right, he was in your neighborhood temporarily "for work" (or so he claimed) created a profile on Bumble making it appear as if he lived in the area and was local???

And when you (and no doubt other local women) messaged him believing him to be local and exchanging a couple of messages, he suddenly announced that he's not?  That he was just in your area temporarily "for work" and wants to hook up that night??

If I may ask how could not see through that?   How deceptive that was? 

Nevermind my previous post about avoidant, he's deceptive and probably married or in another relationship or otherwise just unavailable.

No amount of you waiting or being patient or being cool or "go with the flow" is going to change that.

Pease forget about this person.  Block him, delete him, whatever you need to do to move on and heal. 

MC, there is a big lesson to be learned from this which after self reflection and healing, I hope you will.

There is nothing you could have done except after he told you he was in fact NOT local and wanted to hook up that night, stop communicating with him. 

I'm really sorry and again I hope you feel better soon.

 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, MCsquared said:

@rainbowsandroses, do you think there ever would have been a point that he would let down his guard and want to get past this avoidant attachment? I can't see how i could out wait him anymore, to see if he would ever come around. Like someone said even if he did we don't live near each other. And as much as I enjoy him I want more than friendship but I feel bad letting him down..if that makes sense. If he's just not capable.

 

I would avoid labels and assume he simply wasn't interested in meeting you in person anymore and/or is not available - maybe his wife/partner found out or he reconnected with an ex or simply didn't feel like it.  I'd leave labels like avoidant to a professional he might choose to see. I don't think he is a good fit for friendship since you are interested in pursuing a potential date or romantic relationship and he is not -or not sufficiently to put in the effort to make a plan to meet you in person.  I'm sorry you're disappointed.

[yogacat]

8 hours ago, MCsquared said:

Thank you for this. I'm going to second guess myself for a while, it is my nature so I really appreciate this. I'll look back on it when I feel I need to reach out to him. I can't respect myself and do that. It would be one thing if he does and explains himself etc but it has to come from him. Then I can decide if I want to proceed as long distance friends. 

You're welcome! 🤙🙌

You showed self-respect in driving this to its natural conclusion. And there's every chance you'll see in the future and can enjoy the camaraderie (depending on how the world sorts itself out by then). 

In the meantime, other things to do. What would be the other outcome. It would be communicating with him for an indefinite period of time with him reiterating that you're just friends and nothing happens.

That's like batting a kitten around. If you're gonna strike that out, strike that out clean and find something else to do because you also don't have to wait for an outcome. 

[Tinydance]

Yes I agree that even if he's not a catfish and wanted to be friends, so what? You met on a dating app and the idea is to date. Sure, if you truly were fine with just being friends and you click well, why not? But you really wanted more. And you were on that dating app to find a partner I'm assuming? So you don't have any obligations to be anyone's friends from there if you don't want to. Also for friends there's the Bumble BFF version of the app. So I'm not getting the impression that actual Bumble is for friendship. 

And also, as you said, you were providing him the "girlfriend experience" which he seemed to be enjoying. If he's really travelling for work and he's single, seems he's not serious about actually dating. So he was just enjoying your conversations to pass the time. But you wanted a guy who would date in person and presumably kiss, hold hands, be intimate, do activities together. So he was getting what HE wants from it which was just some company of a woman to pass the time/friend. But you weren't actually getting anything you wanted or needed from him.

I mean think about it. You liked him so much but most parts of a relationship or even friendship were not even there. Even if he was a friend, how do you have a friend that you actually have no idea what they really look like? I'd want a friend where I at least know who I'm really speaking to.

Also I personally have no problem with a friend video calling me out of the blue. If I don't feel like answering it at that time or not in a good position e.g. in my pyjamas, or I'm busy, I won't answer. But I will answer when I can. Same thing as with a text message or phone call. If you can't answer as they call, you get back to them later. And if I don't feel like video calling coz I don't look good or whatever, I'd at least call on the phone or text. The fact you've had no response for him for a couple of days tells you he's either a catfish, not single or just not interested. Some "friend" that is.

[Tinydance]

6 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

^Thank you for this additional context, wow.  Makes a difference.

So if I've got this right, he was in your neighborhood temporarily "for work" (or so he claimed) created a profile on Bumble making it appear as if he lived in the area and was local???

And when you (and no doubt other local women) messaged him believing him to be local and exchanging a couple of messages, he suddenly announced that he's not?  That he was just in your area temporarily "for work" and wants to hook up that night??

If I may ask how could not see through that?   How deceptive that was? 

Nevermind my previous post about avoidant, he's deceptive and probably married or in another relationship or otherwise just unavailable.

No amount of you waiting or being patient or being cool or "go with the flow" is going to change that.

Pease forget about this person.  Block him, delete him, whatever you need to do to move on and heal. 

MC, there is a big lesson to be learned from this which after self reflection and healing, I hope you will.

There is nothing you could have done except after he told you he was in fact NOT local and wanted to hook up that night, stop communicating with him. 

I'm really sorry and again I hope you feel better soon.

 

 

 

 

Yes I was actually going to say exactly the same thing. The number one thing here is that he never said anything in his profile that he didn't live in that area or anywhere near it. Women get a lot of matches and messages on online dating.  So he was wasting women's time matching on him when they could be talking to other guys who actually do live there.

And I got the impression that he never even really said in their conversations where he actually lives? Like, of course he wouldn't give his address but surely he'd say which city or town or whatever? I mean, did he say: "I live a few hours drive away." But what does that mean? A few hours could be 2 hours or it could be like 6 hours. Even if he was genuine but he could be so far that it's just not possible to see each other. Especially if he's travelling all the time.

[MCsquared]

So the drama continues..he text me yesterday afternoon, just some random idea he had about a side business. No mention of the call or anything.

I answered a couple of hours later saying I didn't think his side business idea was a good idea. Said I hope you have a good day tomorrow and goodnight.

He responded that he hopes we both have good days and to tell him everything tomorrow when I'm done with work, he'll be free around 7 pm my time.

I honestly don't know what to think. I'm not calling him or responding to that. But if he calls me part of me wants to ask him outright what the deal is. The other part of me says what's the point. This is all he ever will be to me...and if I can accept him at face value as just a person to enjoy convo with, is that ok for me? I don't know anymore. 

I'm definitely not texting him how I feel about everything or asking him anything via text that he can ignore and sidestep. 

I did also actually talk on the phone with another guy in my area last night...so I'm opening myself up to other possibilities. I can't say the convo was great but I'm leaving all doors open and seeing what develops. 

[MissCanuck]

18 hours ago, MCsquared said:

do you think there ever would have been a point that he would let down his guard and want to get past this avoidant attachment?

Don't even bother wasting energy wondering this. Why? Because you have no idea if it's even true when it comes to this guy. You don't even know for sure you are communicating with, so I wouldn't get into any sort of analysis about what attachment styles he may or may not have. 

8 minutes ago, MCsquared said:

He responded that he hopes we both have good days and to tell him everything tomorrow when I'm done with work, he'll be free around 7 pm my time.

Meh, I don't think I'd bother with this either. It's become clear that this is going to be too hard for to keep going, given that it doesn't appear you two want the same things out of this. I would take a lot distance from this guy, to preserve my own sanity

[SophiaG]

2 minutes ago, MCsquared said:

He responded that he hopes we both have good days and to tell him everything tomorrow when I'm done with work, he'll be free around 7 pm my time.

Sounds like he's bored again and will have some free time to be entertained with the "girlfriend treatment" you've been providing with the comfort protection of distance and anonymity.

4 minutes ago, MCsquared said:

I'm not calling him or responding to that.

Good plan.

4 minutes ago, MCsquared said:

But if he calls me part of me wants to ask him outright what the deal is. The other part of me says what's the point.

You can either call him out or just ignore the call. The only difference is that if you confront him he might try to convince you/keep you confused with more excuses and noncommittal promises. If you think you might be swayed by that, I suggest you not confront him.

6 minutes ago, MCsquared said:

and if I can accept him at face value as just a person to enjoy convo with, is that ok for me? I don't know anymore.

It clearly isn't ok for you or you wouldn't have posted here. And you shouldn't be ok with that. Reread this thread whenever you start to second guess yourself.

 

7 minutes ago, MCsquared said:

I did also actually talk on the phone with another guy in my area last night...so I'm opening myself up to other possibilities. I can't say the convo was great but I'm leaving all doors open and seeing what develops. 

Awesome! You are probably bound to meet many "meh" guys in your area but please don't use those as reasons to go back to this man. Keep looking and meet in person soon. Good luck!

[rainbowsandroses]

35 minutes ago, SophiaG said:

Sounds like he's bored again and will have some free time to be entertained with the "girlfriend treatment" you've been providing with the comfort protection of distance and anonymity.

This^^!  

MC, please don't be that girl.. Block and delete to avoid even wondering about this or him anymore. 

45 minutes ago, MCsquared said:

I did also actually talk on the phone with another guy in my area last night...so I'm opening myself up to other possibilities. I can't say the convo was great but I'm leaving all doors open and seeing what develops. 

Excellent!  That is a great attitude! 

 

[Batya33]

If he texts again I’d simply wish him well and tell him life is getting busy for you so you need to prioritize and decrease time online a lot. Close with “I’m sure you can relate and understand. Be well. “
also this isn’t drama. He simply messaged you as a chat buddy. He didn’t ask to meet you in person at a specific time and place because he’s not going to - remote chances aside. I’d have seen if as somewhat drama if he’d apologized about his lack of response plus explained that he really wants to meet you and hopes you still want to meet him.