People who make claims of being well off say one thing and do another

[WorkSux56]

7 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Because you should never give what you’re not willing to lose whether a gift or a loan. You said you are BAD with money which implies it would be a gift . 

Being bad with money and defaulting on a loan are two different things 

[jazz_lover]

Sounds like they were just engaging in one-upmanship and being condescending and patronizing towards you and there was no substance to their promise. Generally wealthy people don't go round spreading the wealth. Even with family it is generally done in a very businessman like way and is used as an instrument to control and comes with all kinds of strings attached and charitable donations are often made to achieve posterity or get tax breaks or elevate their social standing. Perhaps occasionally on a whim they like to engage in noblesse oblige but it will be when it suits them and not when it suits you.

You can learn to be better with money. The basic formula is simple: work hard and earn as much as you can given your education and skills and invest as far as you can in gaining new skills that serve a useful purpose, spend less than you earn and invest the difference in a diversified portfolio of index funds, and above all be disciplined and not give into impulses or a desire to get rich quick because for most people building wealth takes decades. People who get wealthy quicker than that either inherited wealth, got lucky, took big risks that paid off, or just happened to have the skills and ability that were in high demand and therefore commanded a high salary. But in all cases they had discipline. Just think of all the stories of sports stars earning millions a year who go bankrupt shortly after retiring. 

[Seraphim]

Just now, WorkSux56 said:

Being bad with money and defaulting on a loan are two different things 

True, but as I said never give what you are not willing to lose . 

[itsallgrand]

1 hour ago, WorkSux56 said:

Well people need to quit sauntering up to me like movie stars who just got out of a limo and talking about how they "got my back" only to scream their heads off later. When somebody boasts of having more money than God, a person like me is going to naturally think of that as a loan option and as a way to begin bettering my situation 

Noooo.

I mean, I agree if someone is boasting all the time about how much money that have and how they are heros waiting in the wings to help, yes they will attract people who are looking for money. 

But I said Noooo because it's a bad attitude to have on your part to think these folks are "naturally" a source of loans or means of bettering your situation. 

 

[SophiaG]

2 hours ago, WorkSux56 said:

I keep saying, ALL I got out was "remember when you said if I ever needed anything? Well, here I am". They both somehow deduced (incorrectly) that I was there with my hand out. 

No offense but that does sound like you were there to cash your cheque en blanc that they probably just said casually for an ego boost. Now that you know they were either lying about the having too much money part or the "I got your back" part. Does it really matter which part?

Also I agree with Batya33 and Seraphim that a loan to friend/family is often considered a gift. Expecting it back in a timely manner is unfortunately way too often a quick way to lose a friend. As someone who has SOME money to spare for a friend/family in need, I'm also way more inclined to help someone in a once-in-a-blue-moon emergency rather than someone who's constantly in a financial hole. It's not just that the latter is less likely to pay you back; they are also more likely to ask for more and more once they know you have money to spare.

[tattoobunnie]

New money and people who are house poor love to tell others how they can pay for them. Since you have a history of mishandling your money, spending money you don't have, it's not a loan that at point.  These people don't want to help you.  I could not tell you by their hesitancy where they fall on.

Disregard the dumb political biases, but watch https://www.youtube.com/@TheRamseyShowEpisodes, and get a second job.  Become a miser. Stop spending money, because at the end of the day, you won't be rolling in your grave wishing you had purchased only brand names and had more fancy cars.

[WorkSux56]

1 hour ago, itsallgrand said:

Noooo.

I mean, I agree if someone is boasting all the time about how much money that have and how they are heros waiting in the wings to help, yes they will attract people who are looking for money. 

But I said Noooo because it's a bad attitude to have on your part to think these folks are "naturally" a source of loans or means of bettering your situation. 

 

Well, if they are not a source of anything, financially, they really should just keep their mouths shut. Because someone like me is going to think they have an option there. That may make me a stupid person, but, yeah, that's how people like me think. Desperate times and all 

[Kwothe28]

4 hours ago, WorkSux56 said:

I just wonder why they would tell me, completely unsolicited, that they "got my back" if ever I got into a jam, only to get angry and defensive later when I approached them.

I dunno, maybe they just said it as a courtesy. People do that sometimes, its more good words than actions. 

Also, we literally on the other thread have the woman who borrowed 1000 bucks to a friend and now cant get it back. Its generally a bad idea to borrow money to friends. There is even a joke about that here: How can you lose friends fast? Just borrow them money and you wont be seeing them again. I dont think you are maybe like that, but there is some truth in it. I never borrow money but people do ask me for money from time to time. And yes, its usually a pain to get it back, even small sums. 

Also, instead, why dont you learn to be good with money? Meaning to see how much you earn, what are your monthly expanses, and where does it "leak" and how can you fix that? Maybe you cant and that is why you need a loan(for example, you have too much debt and they will cut your electricity or you will be evicted and stuff like that), but you certainly can learn how to be better with the money you have. For example maybe you do something like smoke cigarettes or even gamble. So you need to stop that or find some alternative(for example e-cig instead of real ones). Maybe you eat too much outside and need to prepare meals at home so you can save. Maybe you like to go out in clubs or bars so maybe you shouldnt do that frequently. There is always something that you can improve in your financial situation. So you would be stable in finances and not need loans in future.

For example, how would you even get back thousands dollars of debt? Is there a solid plan or you just plan to, I dunno, invest into memecoins and try to get rich over night?

[yogacat]

Sorry to hear about the situation you're in.

I won't hammer you about financial woes since I know you must feel pretty bad about that now.

Perhaps at that time, they truly meant it, but through time, they have watched how bad you are with finances. Since then, they may have come to a conclusion that it's fruitless to lend money to you. Unfortunately, your reputation does precede you.

I mean, I see your point, too-why offer only to turn you away like that. Then they would have done better to just say "No, I don't have any to spare" than to have turned on you.

If I were going to lend money to a friend and I had it to spare that was in a tight jam, then I'd consider it me giving it to them as a gift, and I wouldn't expect them to pay it back. Said differently, realistically, I would probably only lend money if they were trying to make an honest living but falling on hard times, but your ongoing history of financial mismanagement might have caused your friends to revise their prior promises. Consider it this way: assume, out of some good fortune, they lent you some money and later you paid back; if they hear you are still poor, good friends find it heartbreaking.

It might be that they never knew just how bad it was with you and money, and now they feel obligated or even uncomfortable lending to you. Of course, sometimes people say these things and just don't mean it, or don't really expect anyone to take them up on it, either. For all you know, they also have private battles with their financial situations and might be a little more strapped for cash than initially initially let on.

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, WorkSux56 said:

Goodness gracious. I have expounded on this several times now! I NEVER got that far before they cut me off. All I said was "say...remember when you said you had my back if I got in a jam? Well...here's my situation". I never got to explain my situation before they went to pieces on me talking about not having money lying around, etc. I never asked for an amount. At that point, all I was about to do was explain my situation. But I was never given that chance before they went zero to fighting mad in about half a second 

But you are in a jam because of your poor choices and they probably meant a jam beyond your control. Redirect all your negative energy to energy directed to taking steps to improve your situation by making better choices. I recommended a book and I've heard some people find great help with Dave Ramsey.  What will you do tomorrow to start on the path to a better financial future?

Also I'd keep my distance from people who brag about how wealthy they are.  Many people who are well off are lovely well-meaning, generous thoughtful people and I don't think anyone is required to loan or give anyone money just because they have a lot of money.  I'm a self made woman financially - and my parents were not well off and were very generous with money.  But I'm not comfortable being around people who brag about how much money they have.

[Capricorn3]

8 hours ago, WorkSux56 said:

I am pretty well screwed financially. It's my fault as I am just BAD BAD BAD with money management. It's like a sickness with me. I'll probably be in this financial hole for the rest of my life. 

"But...do you think that that means that I just have money lying around? Well, it sure doesn't!! I am extremely well off, sure. But, I didn't get that way by being STUPID with money". 

When reading the above, I get the impression that they are fully aware that you are very bad with your money management (hence the statement of not being STUPID with money), and therefore are not keen on giving money - even as a loan - because they know they more likely than not, will never get paid back, due to your history of being so bad with money.  I mean, even if they did help out, would you really be able to pay them back?  Not likely. Be honest now.

To repeat Starlight925's great post:  "Instead of analyzing why they said this and seemed to backtrack, instead of resigning yourself to be this way with money forever, why not put your energy towards figuring out how to be better with money yourself so that you never find yourself in this position again?"

[WorkSux56]

29 minutes ago, Capricorn3 said:

When reading the above, I get the impression that they are fully aware that you are very bad with your money management (hence the statement of not being STUPID with money), and therefore are not keen on giving money - even as a loan - because they know they more likely than not, will never get paid back, due to your history of being so bad with money.  I mean, even if they did help out, would you really be able to pay them back?  Not likely. Be honest now.

To repeat Starlight925's great post:  "Instead of analyzing why they said this and seemed to backtrack, instead of resigning yourself to be this way with money forever, why not put your energy towards figuring out how to be better with money yourself so that you never find yourself in this position again?"

I really do appreciate the responses here. But I have said,. multiple times now, that they didn't know a thing about my financial situation. Not unless they are somehow privy to details about my life and they become privy without my knowledge. In which case, that would raise many other questions. I really do doubt that that is the case, as they would have said to me that they are fully aware of my financial situation. I keep on saying that I never got the chance to explain anything to them. They had NO clue as to what I was about to say before they chewed me out about they didn't have money just lying around. I have stated this over and over again and still, the responses I get are "well they know how bad you are with money". Am I bad with money? Of course. But they don't know that. This point keeps getting missed 

[Capricorn3]

Questions:  Who exactly are these two individuals?  Are they long term friends?  Casual friends? Distant friends? Acquaintances?  How close are you to them?  How much money were you looking to ask for?  It would help to get a little more context.

Reason I ask is because if they are just someone you know, but not close to, I can see why they would be reluctant to hand out money, etc. 

[yogacat]

24 minutes ago, WorkSux56 said:

Not unless they are somehow privy to details about my life and they become privy without my knowledge.

I agree with @Capricorn3. It doesn't sound like these are close friends if they don't at least know some details about your life. Unless these are just people you know that were bragging about their wealth. Given the way they lashed out at you, it sounds like there's not much of a friendship there, serious or not.

Even if they are true friends (we haven't been given enough information to make any kind of informed decision), this does seem to be a situation where they found it best to save face (despite earlier claims).

[WorkSux56]

32 minutes ago, Capricorn3 said:

Questions:  Who exactly are these two individuals?  Are they long term friends?  Casual friends? Distant friends? Acquaintances?  How close are you to them?  How much money were you looking to ask for?  It would help to get a little more context.

Reason I ask is because if they are just someone you know, but not close to, I can see why they would be reluctant to hand out money, etc. 

I known one for about 6 years now and the other for a little less than that. I've never discussed my financial situation with either of them. Both of them claim to be extremely well off. One likes to flaunt it while the other is a little more reserved. On two separate occasions, each one has said that they have way more money than they'll ever need and if I ever got in a jam with money, not to hesitate to ask, as they would have my back, no questions asked. One of them told me I had been a great friend to him and he'd have zero issues with helping me out if I ever needed it. I remember chuckling to myself and having the thought of "well....if he only knew how laughably bad I am with money, he would feel very differently". 

The first one I went to, I said "hey, umm.... remember when you said if I ever got into a jam....you had my back? Well....let me lay out my situation and you tell me what you think". And that's ALL I got out! Next thing I know, the guy is looking at me like I had just slapped my mother. He lets me have it telling me that him being well off doesn't mean he has money just lying around. 

So, I got to the other friend who told me the same thing. He's got more money than he will ever need, for me to not hesitate to ask if I ever needed his help financially. Same thing. I say let me lay out my situation and you tell me what you think and, again, before I can even say the first thing about my situation, he's mad, and looking like he's ready to throw punches. Was the possibility of a loan something I was thinking about? Yes. But that would have depended on how the conversation went. Neither knew anything about my situation. Neither wanted to even hear about it. They just told me to get out of their faces. 

I wasn't even 100% sure that I was even going to ask for a loan. All I wanted when I initiated each conversation was to lay out my situation and see what they thought. The thing that made me scratch my head was why they each made such offers, and then didn't even want to so much as give me their take on my situation. They got downright hostile at the very notion that I was even bringing a problem to them 

[Jaunty]

6 hours ago, WorkSux56 said:

"I have WAY more money than I'll ever need. If you ever get into a jam, financially, don't hesitate to ask. I've got your back". There's the quote. 

Really?  TWO of your friends said those exact words to you?  Wow.  You must hang out in some pretty financially impressive circles, because I am an old person who has had 2 very successful careers, and I can't say I know anyone who thinks that they have WAY more money than they'll ever need.  Some of them are pretty rich (and even famous) and they don't think that and certainly would not ever tell another person that.

Anyway, you better just get your own financial situations in order.  That's the way you'll solve this.  And never again will you have to go begging to your extraordinarily rich buddies to bail you out.  

Doesn't that sound like a good idea?

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Really?  TWO of your friends said those exact words to you?  Wow.  You must hang out in some pretty financially impressive circles, because I am an old person who has had 2 very successful careers, and I can't say I know anyone who thinks that they have WAY more money than they'll ever need.  Some of them are pretty rich (and even famous) and they don't think that and certainly would not ever tell another person that.

Anyway, you better just get your own financial situations in order.  That's the way you'll solve this.  And never again will you have to go begging to your extraordinarily rich buddies to bail you out.  

Doesn't that sound like a good idea?

Yes.  If you truly were good friends who did stuff together in person they knew what you did for a living, whether you were employed, how you lived.

Also you didn't need help in the sense of facing an external obstacle.  If they were good friends they'd have known that -like job loss, an illness heaven forbid, a case brought against you unfairly and you needed to pay a lawyer, etc.  So my sense is it came across badly and if they threw punches or were that mad -I am sure you already knew they were short tempered.

[WorkSux56]

13 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Really?  TWO of your friends said those exact words to you?  Wow.  You must hang out in some pretty financially impressive circles, because I am an old person who has had 2 very successful careers, and I can't say I know anyone who thinks that they have WAY more money than they'll ever need.  Some of them are pretty rich (and even famous) and they don't think that and certainly would not ever tell another person that.

Anyway, you better just get your own financial situations in order.  That's the way you'll solve this.  And never again will you have to go begging to your extraordinarily rich buddies to bail you out.  

Doesn't that sound like a good idea?

But the thing is, I wasn't looking for a bailout. A loan, maybe. But not a bailout. And I wasn't even sure that I was going to ask for a loan. That would have depended on how the conversation went. In each case, I wanted to begin by talking about my situation and just see what they thought. They apparently didn't want to hear about it. Fair enough. But I could have done without the holier than thou lectures I got from each one. And yes, I have two friends who have,.or at least appear to have money. And they both, on two separate occasions, expresses the same sentiment to me. "I got your back if you ever get in a jam with money". Actually, I have other friends who have money as well. The difference is, they never made offers and they say little to nothing about what they have 

[WorkSux56]

5 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes.  If you truly were good friends who did stuff together in person they knew what you did for a living, whether you were employed, how you lived.

Also you didn't need help in the sense of facing an external obstacle.  If they were good friends they'd have known that -like job loss, an illness heaven forbid, a case brought against you unfairly and you needed to pay a lawyer, etc.  So my sense is it came across badly and if they threw punches or were that mad -I am sure you already knew they were short tempered.

People can be friends without certain details of their lines coming up. No?

[Jaunty]

1 minute ago, WorkSux56 said:

People can be friends without certain details of their lines coming up. No?

People who have a great deal of discretionary income to spend live differently than those of us who either don't have it or don't choose to spend lavishly.  If we've been to someone's home, gone to restaurants,  entertainment, or traveled with them, or observed what kind of stuff they have, we will get a clue.   

The people we surround ourselves with definitely develop a sense of our general financial situation as well. 

In what ways are you so bad bad bad with your bucks?  

[SophiaG]

10 minutes ago, WorkSux56 said:

Actually, I have other friends who have money as well.

It seems unusual that you would be so poor while having so many rich friends - adults generally gravitate towards those from their own socioeconomic class. Are you from a wealthy family but somehow lost all your money due to bad decisions? Either way, if you have so many wealthy friends it shouldn't have been difficult to learn from them or seek advice - you wouldn't need to wait for them to offer "I have way too much money" before asking. Also "having way more money than they ever need" doesn't necessarily been being money savvy and able to give you any sound advice.

[SophiaG]

8 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

The people we surround ourselves with definitely develop a sense of our general financial situation as well.

Exactly. How can you expect them, if you were indeed such great friends, to not know that you were struggling financially? I mean, if you were frugal and avoiding activities that cost money, they probably knew you couldn't afford the things they could. If you were reckless with money and spending beyond your means, it might explain why they got mad when you asked as you were clearly not financially responsible...

[Capricorn3]

22 minutes ago, SophiaG said:

Exactly. How can you expect them, if you were indeed such great friends, to not know that you were struggling financially?

That was my thought too - I had the impression they know the OP well enough - hence the straight forward comment about "not being STUPID with money", which implies they are aware he's not too good about money matters and therefore were not keen on handing any out.   (I imagine a scenario, Like:  "geez, here's this guy who is in such a financial mess due to his own doing, coming to ask me money.  No thanks").   Why else make that comment in the first place about being stupid with money?  Sounds like they are aware, one way or another.

[Capricorn3]

49 minutes ago, WorkSux56 said:

But the thing is, I wasn't looking for a bailout. A loan, maybe.

How much? And, being totally honest, would you really have ever managed to pay it back, given your background of being really "bad, bad, bad with money"?

[Capricorn3]

1 hour ago, WorkSux56 said:

One of them told me I had been a great friend to him and he'd have zero issues with helping me out if I ever needed it. I remember chuckling to myself and having the thought of "well....if he only knew how laughably bad I am with money, he would feel very differently".

You're basically saying that he dodged a bullet. So his decision was correct.