In an extraordinarily complicated friendship with a girl, looking for advice

[jamespart142]

his will be long. Summary at the bottom.

I [26M] met a girl, also 26, back in the first year of my master's at University. Immediately, I was struck by her. Like the whole love at first site thing. We hung out a few times, went out to the city together, never really specified it was a date. Contact slowly simmered out, but that next year, while we were both abroad, we reconnected again, and got very close. Turns out we really had everything in common, our love for movies, for hiking, travel, books, etc. The whole thing. 

In May of that year, I went to go see her in her city, and yet again, things simmered out after, and she made sure to let me know that she only thought of us as friends. She told me she's asexual, never really dated, experienced intimacy. This hit me, because I always thought I could also be ace (probably not, but maybe) and sex was never an important thing for me. Of course, this only made things worse. You'd think I'd take this no as a no, right? Well, I fell into an awful depressive episode over this, not being able to get her out of my head, becoming genuinely obsessed, deep in my imagination. 

Later that year, things got a bit easier as I started to distract myself. I still talked to this girl, but only like a few times a month. I met a girl when I moved to NYC and we started dating. I think because of this previous relationship, my entire view of love was totally screwed. I was waiting for that instant infatuation and it never came, and I gaslit myself into thinking I never loved this girl, all because of my previous infatuation for the other individual. But, things were SO EASY with this new girl, it was like I was dating a best friend, yet I never managed to say i love you, because I truly felt that I didn't feel it, I didn't feel that "spark," that obsession with girl #1.

We only dated for 8 months or so, before she had to move back to Australia and we broke things off, knowing we couldn't do long distance.

Lo and behold, guess who comes back into my life. Once again, me and this girl start talking again, A LOT, calling, even watching movies together. We become essentially best friends. By this point, a gaslight myself into thinking I have no hope left, that this is a totally normal friendship. We become very reliant on each other, with both of us suffering from bad mental health and helping one another when the other is struggling. 

Out of the blue one day, she sends me a MASSIVE text message, like dozen pages worth of writing, stating that she feels that I can never not "love" her in a romantic way, and everything I do is guided by attraction, and that she is stuck in a loop and a mental battle. She says we would make a great pair in an alternate universe, but she can't fall prey to the heteronormativity. So she essentially said goodbye. My (probable) *** up was the following: I wrote back to her, an even longer message, saying how I was in a good space, and I didn't feel romantic love for her, and had no hope for a relationship. I told her I do love her deeply, but because we have such a good connection, because we are so close. She takes some time off from our whole thing, but a month later, on my birthday, she messages telling me how its been hard not to talk, we basically tell each other that we miss each other. 

So, back to "normal." Once again, talking all the time, until quite recently I fly out to go visit her in her city. It's a city I've always wanted to visit, so not even going for her really, but of course she's part of it. During our last day, I break down to her, letting her know that it's been really hard, that I might have to pull away from all of this, not because I have feelings but because if I start dating someone else, how can this complicated, cooked ass relationship be maintained? 

Truth is, while I felt less strongly about her (more because I just had no hope) I probably still loved her. She's still the only thing on my mind, as a friend, as a woman, as a whatever. Just the perfect person to me, even after she again and again said no to me, and to be honest didn't treat me great. Now, it's gone cold. No contact, nothing. 4 years down the drain, essentially. She's removed me on social media, and hasn't talked to me in a month. 

I guess the reason I'm messaging here is to vent, and to get advice. I'm waking up with panic attacks almost nightly, not because I'm like "oh i lost a dream woman" but because I'm awful with finality, and this person was perhaps the closest person in my life who I shared everything with. It is an incredibly complex situation, my friends tell me I'm in a Seinfeld episode and I just laugh at how true it is.

I have no clue what to do. Probably need to move on, but again, I just keep thinking how short life is, and how awful it is to fall out of contact with someone so close. But at the end of the day, she has SERIOUS SERIOUS intimacy issues and issues with romance, that I don't think she'll ever solve. She also has problems with taking insane, high dose anxiety meds that I think have totally cooked her brain.

Don't even know what I'm looking for here, validation or advice on my next steps. Likely, it's too little too late. I don't want to be the guy that bothers a woman who's looking for distance, but also I'm tired of showing so much love and getting none back. But yet, we're so similar, always been there for each other, and it feels all too final...

TL;DR: Got friendzoned, but then became too close, ended up in a muddled, complicated mess that has now imploded.

 

[smackie9]

So sorry you got caught up in this mess....you hoped way too hard for "something" to happen. I hope your friend has a therapist to work these things out with her mental state. 

For you realty hits hard as a hard lesson to be learned. Grieve your loss properly, and get going with your life full speed. make her a distant memory. The problem is, we want most what we can't have. maybe you should find a therapist to find what is rooted in all this so you can come to terms with the end result.  

[Andrina]

Firstly, if you have bad mental health, what are you doing about it? If nothing, for your own well being, please seek therapy to find a good treatment plan. I know firsthand that to be a good partner to someone, you have to straighten out your own psyche first.

Think of the Goldilocks and the Three Bears story. She found one bed too soft, one too hard, and then finally found the one that was just right. You didn't have that special chemistry you need with the woman you broke up with. Too soft. You can't have what you want with a woman who will never feel the way you do. She cares for you only as a friend and likes the attention of a fan. Too hard.

Luckily in life, there is never a three strikes and your out when trying to find a lifetime love. It's not the case if one doesn't work out, our chance for happiness is over. Some people have to date 100 people over a period of years before finding a keeper. Some marry and are happy with the first person they date. No one size fits all.

After you achieve a better mental state, it will be time for you to choose the person just right for you. Otherwise, it's called settling plus pouring a lot of your time and emotional energy into a dead end.

You will not like this advice, but you now should explain to this woman that staying friends when you two have different relationship goals is going to prevent you from bonding with a new lady you wish to meet. It's not fair to a future lady to have you communicating with a woman you wanted so much more from. Women are intuitive and will walk away when they realize you have a crush on this "friend."

[Coily]

1 hour ago, jamespart142 said:

She's removed me on social media, and hasn't talked to me in a month. 

Consider this a bit of a blessing.

From all of the pop-culture mumbo-jumbo she was throwing at you, she was trying to gaslight you into the mental state you are in now. Confused and unsure. Why? Because she confused, unsure, and scared (of what, doesn't matter). Misery loves company.

I don't think your response did anything more than give her the excuse she was fishing for to go no contact; but leave herself without feeling guilty. So right now, it's okay to feel a little resentment. Not hate or anger; but resentment will help you psychologically distance yourself and start the healing process.

Also, welcome to the club; the friendzone club. It sucks, but there are good lessons to learn from it. For one, if you are attracted to someone come to the conclusion quickly if you can date them or not. Learn to make decisive decisions when in a situation like this. Those deep connections are hard to shake, but if you keep sticking around with people who don't value your time, you will only end up hurt.

[Batya33]

Agree with all the others and I think you'd benefit greatly from speaking with a therapist and finding a good therapist. I'm sorry you're upset about how this on and off friendship ended.

[ShySoul]

She did not friendzone you. She did not gaslight you. If anything she was totally honest and sincere with you. She told you she was asexual and didn't experienced physical intimacy. She indicated from the start that she wasn't looking for more. She probably could tell you did have romantic feelings, as your post seems to indicate you do. So she felt uncomfortable and had to say something. And you were the one who said you would need to pull away from her. Her removing you is actually following your wishes.

I don't see a person with serious intimacy issues. I see a person who isn't interested in having a relationship. That is her choice. And if she is asexual, then that part isn't her choice. As with any type of sexuality, that's just how she is. She may have other issues, as we all do. But nothing you wrote indicates a problem with intimacy or romance.

Also, intimacy doesn't just been sex or physical attraction. The helping each other with your mental health was also being intimate. Being best friends was being intimate. It can simply be things that draw people closer together. She did show you love - in helping you with your struggles and being there for you. It's not really fair to say you got none back.

You don't need therapy. You just need to get out of your own way and sort out your feelings. You said multiple times that you were gaslighting yourself. You were trying to change how you felt to fit the situation you were in, or what you thought she wanted. Instead just be honest. 

You loved her. It could be in a romantic sense or just in the sense of a really great person. Admit it and see there is nothing wrong with that. Admit that she can not return that affection to the degree you want her to. Admit that you walked away because you didn't want to get hurt. Admit that you would like to be friends with her. 

Work through those feelings until you can reach a place of peace with them. Focus on finding a way to be happy with you for a time. And if you can get to a good enough space, reach out again and try to be freinds. That kind of freindship you seemed to have is worth it. It would be a waste to not let it continue, but only if you are in the right place emotionally to have it.

 

[MissCanuck]

This isn't complicated, actually. 

You fell for her. You have been trying to deny to her (and yourself, to some extent) that you have strong feelings for her. It's normal to feel hurt when those feelings aren't reciproacted. That's really all this is. You have been hanging on and hoping, and she has been clear it's not going to happen. It's a tale as old as time. It just took you two longer to get to the expiration date because, well, you didn't really want to accept that friendship was all that she would ever offer you. 

It stings but it's better that you put her behind you. You wouldn't have been able to move on properly if you had stayed in touch with her. You will be okay, but next time, don't hang around when a woman tells you she doesn't want a romantic relationship with you. 

[ShySoul]

8 hours ago, jamespart142 said:

We become very reliant on each other, with both of us suffering from bad mental health and helping one another when the other is struggling. 

...she messages telling me how its been hard not to talk, we basically tell each other that we miss each other. 

...if I start dating someone else, how can this complicated, cooked ass relationship be maintained? 

Person who is there for you when you are struggling with bad mental health? Person with whom don't want to stop talking to and miss like crazy, to the point of dreaming of them and not being able to be away from them? Sounds like a real friend and it would be a shame to just forget about it and not talk to each other. A friendship like that is rare, special, and something to hold onto.

Make sure you are okay with yourself and your feelings first. But please, don't think you have to give up on knowing her entirely. 

And if either of were with someone else, you could very easily maintain the freindship. It would just require you to be able to understand that what you have with her is special, just not in that relationship way. As a male who has remained close friends with someone who did not return my affections as I would have liked, I know it can be difficult, but it is very doable.

[Kwothe28]

10 hours ago, jamespart142 said:

She says we would make a great pair in an alternate universe, but she can't fall prey to the heteronormativity. So

Trust me, you are far better without somebody who says floscules like this. She doesnt want to be with you because she will be in a traditional relationship so Reddit or her friends would shame her for it? What? 

Block and delete her from everything. You tried more than enough. Its time to truly move on. That means going no contact. So you could find somebody who would truly want to be with you and not just crave your attention but not wanting that from whatever reason. 

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

Trust me, you are far better without somebody who says floscules like this. She doesnt want to be with you because she will be in a traditional relationship so Reddit or her friends would shame her for it? What? 

Block and delete her from everything. You tried more than enough. Its time to truly move on. That means going no contact. So you could find somebody who would truly want to be with you and not just crave your attention but not wanting that from whatever reason. 

Yes beware of psychobabble and word salad. With very very rare exceptions those who want to be with you the way you want to be with them will want you to know that in the clearest most direct and simple way.  Or if for some reason they cannot be with you -divorce isn't final/they're going out of town on business for months- they also will be clear and direct and ask simply -can I call you when [obstacle is not there]. 

I would not stay in any contact with her because the benefit of any friendship is outweighed by your obstacle -your attraction to her and intensely wanting more.  

[ShySoul]

On 9/10/2024 at 1:57 PM, jamespart142 said:

She says we would make a great pair in an alternate universe, but she can't fall prey to the heteronormativity

Based upon who she seems to be, I would say this was a honest and sincere statement spoken from the heart. This was not psychobable or some sign of instability. This is a person who, in everything they have said, does not believe that relationships should defined in the standard way. That is her view, and she is entitled to it. She is correct, if things were different she does think the two of you could be good for each other. But she is does not believe that standard mae/female relationships are right for her. 

Guess what? A lot of people agree. Heteronormativity is not some term made up to sound smart or make up an issue. It is a real thing that LGBTQ+ face. And a lot more people fall on her side of the spectrum then would probably seem at first glance. I'm seeing 7.6% non CIS in the USA and higher around the globe. And it's not new. Historically many cultures have been more gay friendly and open sexually. I was even just seeing rumors of how many former presidents may have been in same sex relationships.

Also realize that she can be attracted to you in some ways but not others. She may be attracted in the sense of feeling a really strong connection to you as person, even romantically. But that doesn't translate to sexual attraction or feeling like there should be a romance. Sexuality and romance isn't always black and white, and she may actually have mixed feelings on the subjects in general, and with you specifically.

She has done nothing but be open and honest with you about her feelings from the beginning. She has, based on what was said, not indicated wanting anything more. You've been the one wanting more. 

Try to get a handle on your own feelings. Try to see that what you have shared is a remarkable and close friendship that has been good for both of you. Try to not let feeling of unrequited affection cause you to feel bad or place undue blame upon her. And try to reach a place where you can appreciate how rare and special it is to have anyone in your life with whom you can really connect with.

Hope you are able to work this out.

[Tinydance]

Well just to mention something about being asexual. I'm not asexual but I'm pretty sure that my ex-girlfriend was truly asexual. We dated more than ten years ago and to be honest I for some reason didn't believe that asexual is actually a real thing. Like, maybe I thought someone who says that just has a low sex drive or is inexperienced. My ex girlfriend was inexperienced even though she was in her late 20's. I initially thought maybe it was related to that. But even when we were just friends for a few months first, she basically said she was asexual. She said she never thought in a sexual way about herself or her body, other people, didn't fantasise, didn't masturbate, didn't feel sexually attracted to anyone. Even the first time I kissed her she said she didn't feel anything. We dated for two years and she never initiated sex and felt uncomfortable during sex.

Anyway, the point of that story is that I think there actually are a small number of people out there who are asexual. I'm not sure if this girl just said that to turn down a relationship with you. But that seems like a weird thing to make up when she could just say she's not romantically into you.

I know it's really confusing because it's hard to find a good connection and you do have a good connection with her. But some good connections are actually just meant to be a friendship. Like, I have a great connection with my best friend of 13 years. And we did say if we were attracted to each other we'd be together but we're not. Unfortunately on this girl's end her feelings towards you are platonic.

I'm not sure whether because she's actually asexual that she's naive in regards to male and female attraction. Like, she can get really close to a male and doesn't feel any sexual tension. She just enjoys all the chats, the phone calls and watching movies and so on. You might say she led you on because she did know how you felt about her. Maybe she did lead you on but maybe it wasn't deliberate. Maybe she thought of you as her best friend and she thought that's what it could be. But the problem is you don't want only friendship.

I think it really probably is to just move on. She removed you from all her social media because she's trying to help you. She's trying to help you start moving on.

You're only 26 so you're still young. I'm not invalidating how you feel about this girl but I agree that there's not only one person out there that we can love. Like if you'll be alive for 80 years surely you'd love more than only one person? I know it feels like there's nobody else but this girl but there will be. 

[Tinydance]

5 hours ago, ShySoul said:

Based upon who she seems to be, I would say this was a honest and sincere statement spoken from the heart. This was not psychobable or some sign of instability. This is a person who, in everything they have said, does not believe that relationships should defined in the standard way. That is her view, and she is entitled to it. She is correct, if things were different she does think the two of you could be good for each other. But she is does not believe that standard mae/female relationships are right for her. 

Guess what? A lot of people agree. Heteronormativity is not some term made up to sound smart or make up an issue. It is a real thing that LGBTQ+ face. And a lot more people fall on her side of the spectrum then would probably seem at first glance. I'm seeing 7.6% non CIS in the USA and higher around the globe. And it's not new. Historically many cultures have been more gay friendly and open sexually. I was even just seeing rumors of how many former presidents may have been in same sex relationships.

Also realize that she can be attracted to you in some ways but not others. She may be attracted in the sense of feeling a really strong connection to you as person, even romantically. But that doesn't translate to sexual attraction or feeling like there should be a romance. Sexuality and romance isn't always black and white, and she may actually have mixed feelings on the subjects in general, and with you specifically.

She has done nothing but be open and honest with you about her feelings from the beginning. She has, based on what was said, not indicated wanting anything more. You've been the one wanting more. 

Try to get a handle on your own feelings. Try to see that what you have shared is a remarkable and close friendship that has been good for both of you. Try to not let feeling of unrequited affection cause you to feel bad or place undue blame upon her. And try to reach a place where you can appreciate how rare and special it is to have anyone in your life with whom you can really connect with.

Hope you are able to work this out.

Honestly I think you nailed it in the sense that there are some people who feel a connection but don't feel that the connection needs to be romantic. I wrote about my ex-girlfriend before I read your comment. I actually had an amazing emotional connection with her and I ended it because I'm not asexual but she was. And she was actually begging me not to end it because of our strong click but to me I needed both the emotional and sexual in a relationship. But also sometimes it's actually a friendship and I came to realise that my ex and I should have been good friends and not partners.

[Batya33]

I don't think it matters how she labels or whether she feels some sort of attraction to him. They are incompatible when it comes to attraction - she is not attracted to him in any of the ways that would be relevant or matter to him and she was honest from the get go -even if on Monday she is platonically attracted and by Tuesday afternoon she'd be into kissing him but on Wednesday she's mostly attracted to 10 dollar words or maybe in her alternate universe it's $100 words with inflation there- who cares.  And why even do so much explaining - at bottom she knows she doesn't want him the way he wants her and she can go off and explore her sexuality, her labels, have "deep" text messages in whatever universe or normative or a-normative environment she find herself with people who are into that sort of thing but with this guy I think the old school "I don't want to date you" suffices.  

Also she seems to be in an exploratory phase which means a potential rollercoaster for the OP should he try to be "friends." I think it's awesome for her to explore and I think she had all that um verbal outpouring she typed and typed and typed because the label "KISS" (keep it simple, stupid especially to act in a thoughtful way and not inadvertently even lead someone on) doesn't apply to her right now.

It's like this - I made a new good friend years ago and I knew right away she was into an MLM.  I knew that I'd be open -remote possibility -but open -to buying or trying one of the skin care products. But I also knew because she was so attracted to her MLM and to making a sale by bringing me on as a consultant that only a set in stone/black and white approach would fend her off. So the first time we met in person -even though I'd basically told her the same thing via FB messenger -I said directly 'I want you to know I'm not going to buy the products or get involved in your business but I am open to referring others to you if they tell me they are interested in getting involved in your MLM"

She heard me. She acknowledged and yet she later did stuff like send me links to her presentations, want me to be part of her sales FB group etc - because that's how strong her "attraction' was -I can't imagine had I buttered her up or done all sorts of flowery language that she would have kept pursuing me full force.  I knew it wouldn't be fair to her to leave any door opened.  I think what this woman did was self-serving and she's full of herself not being thoughtful.  It was thoughtful from the get go when she simply told you "just friends." Then she went off the rails some.  I'd stay farrrrr away.