Am I attracted or not ?

[Shycarrot]

On 10/14/2024 at 12:28 AM, Tinydance said:

OK I don't actually see what the problem is? This guy likes you and from everything you said, you like him too. If you really look forward to seeing him and you actually never told him not to touch you, that's obviously for a reason. I mean, you did say you feel aroused when he touches you. I don't see what would be the harm to try to date him? 

There's no problem, really ! 

The prospect of dating him does not repel me. I think I am actually excited ?

I saw my therapist this week and our session widened my perspective ! She said that I am not in danger and that whatever happens with this guy will be a learning opportunity. This really helped me to reduce the 

Anyway I notice he stops texting me every time he's away for the weekend (on average 2 to 3 weekend per month).

For instance, he's currently at a dance festival abroad with a few common friends. I know that I won't hear from him until he comes home on Monday evening.

I have a life on my own, so this does not bother me too much but sometimes, I wonder if I haven't been overestimating his interest in me ? 

His last texted me on Thursday, before leaving, and he that he would be in town next week so we could "pick up where we left and get back to some good habits". By "good habits", he meant hanging out together as we are planning to bake another cake at his house lol. 

Is this concerning ? Or should I just appreciate the space he's given me and consider that he just likes to take some time off his phone ? 

I lean towards the second option ! 

Thanks again for your help 🙂 

 

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

There's no problem, really ! 

The prospect of dating him does not repel me. I think I am actually excited ?

I saw my therapist this week and our session widened my perspective ! She said that I am not in danger and that whatever happens with this guy will be a learning opportunity. This really helped me to reduce the 

Anyway I notice he stops texting me every time he's away for the weekend (on average 2 to 3 weekend per month).

For instance, he's currently at a dance festival abroad with a few common friends. I know that I won't hear from him until he comes home on Monday evening.

I have a life on my own, so this does not bother me too much but sometimes, I wonder if I haven't been overestimating his interest in me ? 

His last texted me on Thursday, before leaving, and he that he would be in town next week so we could "pick up where we left and get back to some good habits". By "good habits", he meant hanging out together as we are planning to bake another cake at his house lol. 

Is this concerning ? Or should I just appreciate the space he's given me and consider that he just likes to take some time off his phone ? 

I lean towards the second option ! 

Thanks again for your help 🙂 

 

I think you should look it as people move towards pleasure and away from pain.  I also think people who mutually want to be together and are single/available make it happen -mutually.  You've expressed frustration at any comparisons I make to my life so I won't.  Generally speaking among everyone I know the level of contact he is having with you is consistent with a person who enjoys hanging out with you when it's convenient /when he is in town and enjoys hanging out with his friends and living his life when it is not convenient.  Right now he is not interested in putting more effort than that into making a plan to hang out at your or his house and bake together and/or have a fun activity.  If you two start dating and there is mutual interest in dating my sense overall is he will be in contact a lot more because then even if he leaves town for one of his fun activities with friends, either he will have invited you to join (but you were unable to attend ) or he will make it clear that he misses you despite having fun.  I don't think he is just trying to give you space -JMHO.  

[Shycarrot]

On 10/14/2024 at 3:49 AM, SophiaG said:

Like you my first requirement is also of the character. I also had some trust issues from the past and want someone transparent, loyal, and consistent with strong morals. Beyond that, I'm very much attracted to intelligence but also can't do without physical attraction 😅 After a few failed relationships I realized how crucial emotional maturity and stability can be, and I need to feel loved when I'm vulnerable so I want someone attentive, devoted, and empathetic

I could not agree more. And I am sorry you have some trust issues from your past. 

On 10/14/2024 at 3:49 AM, SophiaG said:

When you say more kind/considerate than average what actions/behaviors are you looking for? Some people especially introverts might come across as cold or aloof to strangers/acquaintances but can be very warm/kind to close  friends or partners. Maybe you can give those people more chance to get to know you and show that part of themselves?

Yes, of course, I am aware of that ! 

What I mean by more kind/considerate than average is a general disposition to be well-meaning. Sometime, briefs interactions give me this clue. Others times, I need to have a deep conversation with someone especially when there are limiting factors like introversion etc ... 

To give you an example, this guy and a few others in the dance community, were really benevolent and supportive of me when I first started to learn this dance. Not everyone showed me nor my friends the same amount of empathy (I am not saying that they absolutely should, but to be honest, I believe the world would be a better place if everyone was more caring).

Anyway, now that I know him better, his good and kindly disposition has been confirmed (even if I know I could still be wrong). 

What signs do you look for ? 

On 10/14/2024 at 3:49 AM, SophiaG said:

As for me things seem to have finally taken a good turn - after some frustrating years and unsuccessful attempts I'm now in a relationship that's still relatively new but looking quite promising so far. I didn't exactly find a female version of myself 😅 but I found a lovely man that pretty much checked all my important boxes and some more. Of course there's still room for improvement as none of us can be perfect but I never felt the need to morph him into a different person to fit my ideal model of a boyfriend or that I need to change myself to fit his. Actually I find it hard to even imagine being happier with another person 😁 I hope you find the person who triggers these feelings in you soon!

Awesome  I am happy for you !! 

Thank you very much ! 

On 10/14/2024 at 3:49 AM, SophiaG said:

That sounds cute! Did you let him hold your hand and if you did, how did that feel? Hand holding was one of the "tests" that definitively told me if I could be romantically attracted to someone or not. Also I remember you said you were going to talk to him to establish better boundaries about physical touches - did you have that conversation?

Yes, I let him and it felt good, as always. 

Lol, I intended to do that but I "forgot" 😬

I told him to stop, as he was stroking my thigh, because it tickled me and he stopped. It's the only boundary I enforced that day.

[Shycarrot]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Generally speaking among everyone I know the level of contact he is having with you is consistent with a person who enjoys hanging out with you when it's convenient /when he is in town and enjoys hanging out with his friends and living his life when it is not convenient.  Right now he is not interested in putting more effort than that into making a plan to hang out at your or his house and bake together and/or have a fun activity. 

Yes. I have thought about this as well. That makes sense.

After all, we're not officially seeing each other. I understand why he would not want to invest himself more than that.

I wrote "common friends", but it's his friends, I barely know them. 

Also, the last time I saw him (on Tuesday) another guy invited me to dance on 8 (if not more) occasions. I am familiar with this guy, things are completely platonic on my part and I am pretty sure he's not attracted to me either. I enjoy dancing with him because we have a great connection, he enthusiastically teaches me a lot of dance moves etc... But to me, our "connection" ends here.

Anyway, this guy definitely noticed. After the event, he told me he regretted that we didn't dance more songs and I told him that we would, next time. A few weeks ago, he asked me how I knew this guy and I told him the truth : that I didn't know him very well. 

(In my defense, he shares a lot of dance with a few women as well).

There are others guys that are trying to hit on me, he knows some of them, and again, I am sure he notices.

I don't really know how to handle this tbh.

For instance, I had dinner with the guy who invited me a lot, right before the event. It's purely platonic, but for some reason, I was really scared that he would learn it from this guy (I saw both of them talk, for a moment).

At the same time, we're not officially dating, so I am not sure I owe him any explanation over who I am going to dinner with ? 

I guess I could make sure that the guy who invites me a lot does not have an ulterior motive, but I doubt it. It's been 5 months and he has not made any move ! 

If you ask me, he's just a guy who's passionate and who enjoys dancing with me and a few others women. He told me once "I love dancing with you, it's effortless and the connection is great".

 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

I only took a few swing dancing type lessons and I know of how it works more indirectly - meaning the dynamics around choosing/switching partners and what is acceptable, boundaries etc.  I get it.  I'd resist reading into anything except the basics.  You mentioned one basic: you two are not dating.  If that basic changes then just like you're familiar with swing dancing norms and protocols and structure I bet he'd be a person who was familiar with -and practiced -dating norms.  As  you would or at least you'd have a sense of things.  When you choose to be in gray areas there is more risk of: overthinking/misunderstandings/hurt feelings/frustrating jealousy (meaning "ok why I am I jealous he is not committed to me so he can (_____)"

To be clear I am not a person who believes in labeling stuff as a "situationship" or "FWB" just to label messier gray areas. It's silly rationalization and at the end won't help resolve the so-called self-imposed overthinking or "confusion".

[Shycarrot]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

You mentioned one basic: you two are not dating.  If that basic changes then just like you're familiar with swing dancing norms and protocols and structure I bet he'd be a person who was familiar with -and practiced -dating norms.  As  you would or at least you'd have a sense of things.

Thanks for your reply. 

If I understand correctly, you are saying that I should not be bothered by this as long as we're officially dating ? 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Thanks for your reply. 

If I understand correctly, you are saying that I should not be bothered by this as long as we're officially dating ? 

I mean feel what you feel.  What I'm saying is you are having all of these feelings all over the place and overthinking confusion because you're operating in this gray area - you're "friends" who get touchy feely in a way platonic friends do not, you don't want to date him -at least not badly- but you enjoy the touchy feely stuff to an extent.  If you were dating exclusively and you felt he crossed boundaries in some way then yes a conversation could start off simply and directly "I am uncomfortable as  your partner when you interact with ___ in __ way" or "I am uncomfortable that you are going out for dinner one on one with a woman from our dance group on a Saturday night because it gives the appearance of a date." Or "I love how affectionate you are with me but sometimes it's a little  too much like when you grab onto me when we're baking together." "I don't like when you go away for 3 days and barely even text me."

You won't need to get all into your head, all into your  feelings because with a structure to your relationship - you two would be dating exclusively - you already have the security of knowing that "if" something were to happen you could approach it cleanly, directly, quickly.  Rather than "hmmmm so we're not dating, we're friends who hang out and bake together or have a meal, so when he's not with me totally fine if out of sight out of mind."

You will short circuit so much of the overthinking, worrying, ruminating because there is a structure and substance to your interactions and a common, simple language to discuss it.  

But I am not saying that he will act in this way were  you two a couple - I have no idea how he would act and how he's acting now isn't really a way to ascertain or predict since you two are friends who hang out.  I don't want  you to think I think he will behave inappropriately at all -I just mean "if" he does and you are a couple you have a much simpler way to address it if needed.

[Shycarrot]

10 hours ago, Batya33 said:

If you were dating exclusively and you felt he crossed boundaries in some way then yes a conversation could start off simply and directly "I am uncomfortable as  your partner when you interact with ___ in __ way" or "I am uncomfortable that you are going out for dinner one on one with a woman from our dance group on a Saturday night because it gives the appearance of a date." Or "I love how affectionate you are with me but sometimes it's a little  too much like when you grab onto me when we're baking together." "I don't like when you go away for 3 days and barely even text me."

Of course. Although you can still talk about physical boundaries when you are not a couple.

In my country, there's no word that translates to "dating". We can say that you are "hanging out to explore your connection" but even then, it's implied that you only do it with one person at a time.

 

10 hours ago, Batya33 said:

You won't need to get all into your head, all into your  feelings because with a structure to your relationship - you two would be dating exclusively - you already have the security of knowing that "if" something were to happen you could approach it cleanly, directly, quickly.  Rather than "hmmmm so we're not dating, we're friends who hang out and bake together or have a meal, so when he's not with me totally fine if out of sight out of mind."

You will short circuit so much of the overthinking, worrying, ruminating because there is a structure and substance to your interactions and a common, simple language to discuss it.  

Here, we don't have a "talk" to get exclusive. Generally, kissing the person means in most case that you are exclusive with one another, unless one of you says otherwise. 

10 hours ago, Batya33 said:

You will short circuit so much of the overthinking, worrying, ruminating because there is a structure and substance to your interactions and a common, simple language to discuss it

 I am not sure I understand your point 🤔 What are you suggesting exactly ?

I feel like you are saying that there's basically no solution as long as we're not a couple, or "dating exclusively" if that's the same thing. 

And I am aware of that fact, we don't owe each other exclusivity when we haven't even kissed.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Batya33 said:

you're operating in this gray area - you're "friends" who get touchy feely in a way platonic friends do not, you don't want to date him -at least not badly- but you enjoy the touchy feely stuff to an extent

Why are you saying that I don't want to date him ? 

I could be wrong but I feel like we are already doing so (I mean, if I defined dating correctly above).

It's pretty clear to me that we are not "friends" and I am pretty sure he does not sees me as a "friend" either.

[Batya33]

I tried my best and it seems we are miscommunicating.  I wrote I don't think you want to date him badly enough.  That's my personal opinion from what you've written.  I never wrote that you don't talk about physical boundaries unless you are dating -I wrote that the words you would use/the context/how you would approach it would be different if you were dating (or however in your country it is defined when two people are in a romantic relationship where they are having romantic time together and -I would think in your case -you would prefer that to mean you are not dating or looking to date others -that is how I read what you wrote. 

How it works in your country is irrelevant to me because you wrote that there is a structure for exclusive dating. Two people in an exclusive romantic relationship typically discuss physical boundaries when it comes to intimacy from a different perspective/context/outlook than two people who are friends.  When I write "typically" I mean that -not all the time/most of the time. And I mean that in my personal opinion.

I agree with you he seems to be sexually attracted to you.  I won't rewrite what I wrote about gray areas.  His sexual attraction and his touchy feely way of expressing it doesn't change the gray area/limbo you have chosen to be in.  That is why for example you can't have the sort of discussion you might choose to were you exclusive or how you would define "dating" if he goes off for a couple of days with friends, and doesn't call you, if he dances with others in a way that crosses boundaries for many exclusive couples, if he expresses feelings about you dancing with others - all of those conversations -if they occurred -typically are different in a gray area that you've chosen to be in than if you were an exclusive couple.  IMHO.

It is your choice because your options are: (1) not to hang out with him anymore because the downsides of gray area outweigh the benefits; (2) to say to him simply and directly "what are your intentions towards me -are you interested in [dating -or however you put it/being in an exclusive couple with me - your choice of words]?  Or (3) do nothing and accept these downsides and their effects on you the overthinking you describe, the confusion you describe (these may happen in an exclusive relationship too and IMHO with far less frequency, if at all, because for example if he touched you and you were in a couple that's fairly typical of couples and in the rare occasion when you really don't want to be touched at all you would tell him -but likely that would be very rare and in the context of a couple a very different conversation).

There's a well known song by Rush with the lyrics "if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice."

I've tried to be as nuanced as possible as you seem to read what I write as black/white thinking and take it to extremes. This is my last effort and if the response is the same then obviously either I'm doing a bad job, there's some sort of miscommunication or perhaps even a language barrier or whatever. I feel comfortable with my input, comfortable with my intentions and I wish you the best in however you proceed in interacting with this person and interacting with yourself so to speak when you feel confused or like you're overthinking. I know that's no fun!

 

[Andrina]

18 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Anyway I notice he stops texting me every time he's away for the weekend (on average 2 to 3 weekend per month).

For instance, he's currently at a dance festival abroad with a few common friends. I know that I won't hear from him until he comes home on Monday evening.

Just curious about your expectations if you two did start dating about whether or not you will be okay with him going out of town with buddies for dance festivals, etc., if he chose to continue this practice.

I only ask because when I was single and began swing dancing, I did date a guy I met there for about 8 weeks. As for him, he eventually admitted to me that he was addicted to the high of a constant flow of new females he would meet through dance. None of these relationships lasted because no one female would ever be enough. I ended things when I knew I'd never be a priority and by that point wasn't shocked when he admitted his mindset to me.

Just think about if this hobby is a lifestyle ingrained in him in a way that's not conducive to being in a relationship, and if his friends are of the same mindset. Do any of them have longterm partners? Do you know the relationship history of the guy you might want more with? If considering being with him romantically, you might want to have a discussion of what would change or not change with  dance events out of town in particular. Perhaps you'd be okay with that, but it's one behavior I'd expect should stop if I was dating a dancer if we wanted to become serious.

[Batya33]

26 minutes ago, Andrina said:

I only ask because when I was single and began swing dancing, I did date a guy I met there for about 8 weeks. As for him, he eventually admitted to me that he was addicted to the high of a constant flow of new females he would meet through dance.

Wow that is really eye opening.  The OP asked me in particular not to give examples from my own life so I have stopped that and I'm so glad you gave this example. I never heard of this as a motive and honestly never occurred to me.  I didn't participate except a few lessons but knew of a number of people in that "community."

[catfeeder]

5 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Why are you saying that I don't want to date him ? 

Hello SC! Because you've established 'just friends' as your motive. However, you allow this 'friend' to touch you in ways that friends don't touch. So your lack of clarity is not only confusing you, it's confusing us, and likely him.

[SophiaG]

7 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

To give you an example, this guy and a few others in the dance community, were really benevolent and supportive of me when I first started to learn this dance. Not everyone showed me nor my friends the same amount of empathy (I am not saying that they absolutely should, but to be honest, I believe the world would be a better place if everyone was more caring).

Anyway, now that I know him better, his good and kindly disposition has been confirmed (even if I know I could still be wrong). 

What signs do you look for ? 

That's good! I would be careful with using how a guy treats you to judge their personality as people can be exceptionally nice when they are attracted to you. Apart from common signs like how they treat other friends, waiters, cashiers etc. I like to observe how they talk about people in their life or in the news, also how they describe their previous relationships. Naturally you don't want someone who's still dreamy about their ex but I get skeptical when they put all the blame on the ex and depict themselves as the victim. I have more respect for people who can take responsibility for their own failures and shortcomings and can see things from other's perspectives.

8 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Anyway, this guy definitely noticed. After the event, he told me he regretted that we didn't dance more songs and I told him that we would, next time. A few weeks ago, he asked me how I knew this guy and I told him the truth : that I didn't know him very well. 

(In my defense, he shares a lot of dance with a few women as well).

There are others guys that are trying to hit on me, he knows some of them, and again, I am sure he notices.

I don't really know how to handle this tbh.

Do you feel upset when he dances with other women?

I agree that since you two are not dating you don't need to feel bad or explain to him for dancing with other men. Also my impression is that in many dancing communities it is not at all unusual for people who are dating to dance with someone else. Might be something to think about if you date him or another guy from the dancing class.

[Shycarrot]

2 hours ago, Andrina said:

Just curious about your expectations if you two did start dating about whether or not you will be okay with him going out of town with buddies for dance festivals, etc., if he chose to continue this practice

Thank you for raising this problem. Generally, I tend to think that one should not date somebody with the  prospect of changing the other person or her/his lifestyle.

Having said that, I know that there is some nuance and sometimes a few changes are necessary in order to accommodate a new relationship.

I suppose that as long as he does not cut off any communication like he does now, I would be fine with him going to festivals ? I am not sure yet, but again, I thank you for raising this issue.

2 hours ago, Andrina said:

I only ask because when I was single and began swing dancing, I did date a guy I met there for about 8 weeks. As for him, he eventually admitted to me that he was addicted to the high of a constant flow of new females he would meet through dance. None of these relationships lasted because no one female would ever be enough. I ended things when I knew I'd never be a priority and by that point wasn't shocked when he admitted his mindset to me

This is one of my biggest concerns, to be honest. Thank you for sharing this and I hope you weren't too disappointed by this man ! 

Another guy I met there said to me months ago, that all the people from the dance community were in non monogamous relationships. I have not investigated this issue, so I am not sure he's right.

On one hand, I can imagine that these people could be more inclined to have open relationships.

On the other hand, all or nothing statements are rarely true and I am convinced there are some exceptions. After all, exclusivity (or the lack thereof) is a personal matter.

 

2 hours ago, Andrina said:

Just think about if this hobby is a lifestyle ingrained in him in a way that's not conducive to being in a relationship, and if his friends are of the same mindset. Do any of them have longterm partners? Do you know the relationship history of the guy you might want more with? If considering being with him romantically, you might want to have a discussion of what would change or not change with  dance events out of town in particular. 

 

Some of his friends are in a relationship, indeed (whether it's exclusive or not is none of my business). I don't know his relationship history but I am determined to find out. 

I have made a list of the topics that I would like to address with him : 

• his view on exclusivity, and if he believes in monogamy, his boundaries around cheating 
•  his dating history
• what chivalry means to him (he's keen on holding the door for me, whereas I think whoever gets to the door first does it)

He seems kind and respectful, but at the same time, I have been mistaken before 😅

Also, I don't know if I have mentioned this but he has been living in my country for 10 years. His country is allegedly "deeply patriarchal" (he said it at one point) with an alarming number of femicides (my country is also far from perfect, just saying).

There's this idea, that I find pretty racist, that all the men there are serial cheaters, misogynists etc. 

I feel awful for saying this, because it's as if I was admitting that a part of me was still influenced by the stereotypes I heard, but I would like to talk about these topics with him. It's really important to me.

Oof, I should not have written this. My anxiety is creeping in again 🫣

He's given me no reason to believe he's a misogynist nor a cheater and there are plenty of those in my country as well !

He himself, denounced institutional machismo in his country, that's a good sign.  

I need to meditate this ... ☀️

2 hours ago, Andrina said:

Perhaps you'd be okay with that, but it's one behavior I'd expect should stop if I was dating a dancer if we wanted to become serious.

I understand. 

I don't know. This obviously makes him very happy, I am not sure I could tell him to stop as long as I trusted him and I was satisfied with his answers to the above questions. Am I being naive ? 😅

Also, why would this bother you if I may ask ? Would it be the lack of free time dedicated to your relationship ? The amount of time spent with others ? 

[Andrina]

I know that with dancers who meet up for these regular weekly dances, it's boring to dance with the same person all night, and it's expected a couple will be dancing with other people and that's fine. It's just an activity/hobby and not a pick up joint, although couples do and can become romantic while meeting at these dances.

When I'd started dating this dancer, I didn't mind at all that he would be going to dances without me, even one's I couldn't attend because of my work schedule. But then I began to learn his obsession whereas he engaged in 3 different types of dances and his only day off was Monday because none of them met on that particular day. I was upset about how he didn't meet my standards for a partner because our chemistry was like fireworks, I found his personality to be fun and interesting, and he was intelligent and had a good job. 

As far as the festivals go and for whatever reason he goes out of town with the guys 3 out of 4 weekends per month, I'd probably want to attend one of those festivals and see what the attraction is for this group of guys to want to do that. If I felt fine about it, I'd maybe be okay with a few times a year of him doing that, but maybe not even then. I'm not in that situation and it's hard to gauge when I haven't met him or his friends.

But I could also just compare this to my partner doing any guys nights out or trips. Like I've heard some guys will go out to bars a few times a week with a guy friend and I wouldn't be okay with that. Perhaps 3 or 4 times a year would be okay with me for that sort of activity. Even if my partner had a hobby like golfing, I'd expect it not to be all consuming that I'm dissatisfied with the time he's allotted to me.

Single people do often have to make some changes to their leisure/hobby time when become exclusive with a love interest. Their needs to be a healthy balance for time together, time apart, time solo, with a partner feeling like a priority. And a partner should never participate in anything that will be harmful to the sanctity of his/her primary relationship.

It is a wise plan to be asking how a person thinks on certain issues to make sure they mesh with how you like to be in a relationship. And no, you don't tell a person what they can and can't do. But you certainly can choose not to be with them if what they do or think doesn't sit well with you. I wish I hadn't assumed things and asked more questions when I was high on hormones in that new relationship. Live and learn.

[SophiaG]

14 hours ago, Andrina said:

As for him, he eventually admitted to me that he was addicted to the high of a constant flow of new females he would meet through dance. None of these relationships lasted because no one female would ever be enough. I ended things when I knew I'd never be a priority and by that point wasn't shocked when he admitted his mindset to me.

Unfortunately I had similar experience. We dated for much longer, and he always said he wanted a long term relationship, but our relationship boundaries and ideas of exclusivity kept clashing and he often justified his behavior with what was prevalent among his dancing friends - I enjoyed dancing too but was never nearly as invested as he was - I'm sure individuals are all different but my impression was that many men in the dancing community enjoy the attention of multiple women and may struggle to focus on a monogamous relationship, especially since most of the dancing groups I'd been in had way more women than men. The problem with dancing festivals is also that - he'd use those as a "break" from the relationship and indulge in the excitement of new people and new connections. Not saying this guy is necessarily like this, OP - I'd just pay attention to these signs if you were to date him and make sure you communicate expectations clearly when entering an exclusive relationship.

12 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Also, I don't know if I have mentioned this but he has been living in my country for 10 years. His country is allegedly "deeply patriarchal" (he said it at one point) with an alarming number of femicides (my country is also far from perfect, just saying).

There's this idea, that I find pretty racist, that all the men there are serial cheaters, misogynists etc.

I see why you were worried about the possibility of him being a misogynist. Are there other people from his country/culture in your shared social circle so you can observe how he interact with them? Can you talk about gender issues in your country or his country and see what he has to say? In the U.S. for example topics like abortion rights, #MeToo, etc. can often reveal (at least on the surface level) a man's stance on these things. What are some equivalent topics in your or his culture?

[Shycarrot]

8 hours ago, SophiaG said:

Unfortunately I had similar experience. We dated for much longer, and he always said he wanted a long term relationship, but our relationship boundaries and ideas of exclusivity kept clashing and he often justified his behavior with what was prevalent among his dancing friends - I enjoyed dancing too but was never nearly as invested as he was - I'm sure individuals are all different but my impression was that many men in the dancing community enjoy the attention of multiple women and may struggle to focus on a monogamous relationship, especially since most of the dancing groups I'd been in had way more women than men. The problem with dancing festivals is also that - he'd use those as a "break" from the relationship and indulge in the excitement of new people and new connections. Not saying this guy is necessarily like this, OP - I'd just pay attention to these signs if you were to date him and make sure you communicate expectations clearly when entering an exclusive relationship

Thank you, I understand. 

I would love to ask other people in the dance community about him. Like how is he ? Is he a serial dater ? Does he have any history of cheating  etc 

But I know it's an awful idea : he's been in the dance scene for much longer than I am, and I am sure these people would let him know that I asked about him. 

I can only trust his word then 

8 hours ago, SophiaG said:

I see why you were worried about the possibility of him being a misogynist. Are there other people from his country/culture in your shared social circle so you can observe how he interact with them? Can you talk about gender issues in your country or his country and see what he has to say? In the U.S. for example topics like abortion rights, #MeToo, etc. can often reveal (at least on the surface level) a man's stance on these things. What are some equivalent topics in your or his culture?

Yes, there are other people from his country/culture. I haven't had the chance to observe how he interacts with them yet, but I will try ! Thanks for the suggestion ! 

I can and will definitely try to bring back the topic of gender issues ! 

A few months back, I was watching a TV show from a country who is culturally close to his . It was pretty enjoyable, except when the main character went through an unwanted pregnancy and was considering abortion. For context, she was 16 and had had sex only once with her boyfriend at the time, who was  was older and emotionally abusive. 

Every character on the show was trying to dissuade her (she ended up keeping the baby, of course) and at some point, it was even implied that all the subsequents painful events in her life were to punish her for considering abortion. 

I was outraged and I remember that I shared this information with him. He replied "yeah, abortion is a complicated issue in my continent". That does not tell me much about his perspective lol. I should have asked for more info ! 

Usually, when I meet a guy with the prospect of dating him, I rigorously search for any core values incompatibilities.

I haven't been this diligent with him 🤔

On a more positive note, we had an interesting talk in the beginning about how some forms of abuse had become recognized in the last decades (marital rape, domestic violence, child abuse etc ...).

And I remember that I told him that in my mother's country (I am mixed), there were huge social taboos and cultural norms that sometimes made it hard if not impossible for people to talk about what they were going through at home, and to get the help they needed.

For instance, your sex life is considered a private issue so you won't complain about your husband mistreating you in the bedroom. 

You don't criticize your parents because there's this prevailing idea that "parents are always right" etc ... 

There are a lot more examples. 

He seemed to agree with me;

[Shycarrot]

11 hours ago, Andrina said:

I know that with dancers who meet up for these regular weekly dances, it's boring to dance with the same person all night, and it's expected a couple will be dancing with other people and that's fine. It's just an activity/hobby and not a pick up joint, although couples do and can become romantic while meeting at these dances.

Completely. 

11 hours ago, Andrina said:

But then I began to learn his obsession whereas he engaged in 3 different types of dances and his only day off was Monday because none of them met on that particular day. I was upset about how he didn't meet my standards for a partner because our chemistry was like fireworks, I found his personality to be fun and interesting, and he was intelligent and had a good job. 

I understand, that's too bad but at the same time, I am glad you found out rather sooner than later 

11 hours ago, Andrina said:

But I could also just compare this to my partner doing any guys nights out or trips. Like I've heard some guys will go out to bars a few times a week with a guy friend and I wouldn't be okay with that. Perhaps 3 or 4 times a year would be okay with me for that sort of activity. Even if my partner had a hobby like golfing, I'd expect it not to be all consuming that I'm dissatisfied with the time he's allotted to me.

That's very interesting thank you very much.

I have been single for a long time and I don't know my expectations regarding the amount of time spent together vs solo or with friends etc ... 

 

11 hours ago, Andrina said:

It is a wise plan to be asking how a person thinks on certain issues to make sure they mesh with how you like to be in a relationship. And no, you don't tell a person what they can and can't do. But you certainly can choose not to be with them if what they do or think doesn't sit well with you. I wish I hadn't assumed things and asked more questions when I was high on hormones in that new relationship. Live and learn.

Thank you. 

I am definitely planning to ask more questions 😅

[Shycarrot]

20 hours ago, SophiaG said:

That's good! I would be careful with using how a guy treats you to judge their personality as people can be exceptionally nice when they are attracted to you. Apart from common signs like how they treat other friends, waiters, cashiers etc. I like to observe how they talk about people in their life or in the news, also how they describe their previous relationships. 

 

Yes, I completely agree ! I actually I pay more attention to the way a guy treats or talks about others.

 

20 hours ago, SophiaG said:

Naturally you don't want someone who's still dreamy about their ex but I get skeptical when they put all the blame on the ex and depict themselves as the victim. I have more respect for people who can take responsibility for their own failures and shortcomings and can see things from other's perspectives.

Well said

20 hours ago, SophiaG said:

Do you feel upset when he dances with other women?

I agree that since you two are not dating you don't need to feel bad or explain to him for dancing with other men. Also my impression is that in many dancing communities it is not at all unusual for people who are dating to dance with someone else. Might be something to think about if you date him or another guy from the dancing class.

No, not at all. Plus, he maintains some kind of physical distance when other guys hold you very close.

I feel a bit "jealous" of the bond that he shares with his female platonic friends, but apart from that, no. 

Yes, even couples rarely spend the whole night dancing together. 

 

[Shycarrot]

21 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Hello SC! Because you've established 'just friends' as your motive. However, you allow this 'friend' to touch you in ways that friends don't touch. So your lack of clarity is not only confusing you, it's confusing us, and likely him.

Hi Catfeeder 🙂

Thanks for your reply ! 

I understand. 

This may seem silly, but I figured that since he did not initiate a discussion either, this meant that the situation was comfortable or tolerable for him as well ? I don't know, I am just speculating. 

I could tell him the truth : I like him and I am okay with him touching me, but I still need time to get to know him better before I can decide if I want to go further with him or not. 

Is it a good idea ? 

[catfeeder]

12 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

I could tell him the truth : I like him and I am okay with him touching me, but I still need time to get to know him better before I can decide if I want to go further with him or not. 

Is it a good idea ? 

Sure, I see nothing wrong with this.

I'd make my goal to stress less, and enjOy more.

(And of course, to tell us all about it. 🙂 )

[Batya33]

21 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Hi Catfeeder 🙂

Thanks for your reply ! 

I understand. 

This may seem silly, but I figured that since he did not initiate a discussion either, this meant that the situation was comfortable or tolerable for him as well ? I don't know, I am just speculating. 

I could tell him the truth : I like him and I am okay with him touching me, but I still need time to get to know him better before I can decide if I want to go further with him or not. 

Is it a good idea ? 

I like that also because it points out to him simply and directly that the touching is of a kind that friends don't typically do so he then gets to respond -if it's true -that he meant it only in a friendly way -at that point you can decide what further boundaries you would like, if any.