Am I attracted or not ?

[Shycarrot]

10 hours ago, Tinydance said:

How do you have a lot of free time? I thought you were a doctor lol Look I think you do over analyse a lot. And for some reason this analysis seems to lean to the negative. I really don't think you actually know how you can get along or how your relationship could go with guys that you don't know much or at all. Your friend probably found her boyfriend quickly on online dating because she really kept an open mind. To actually find someone you need to at least give people a chance. And it's OK if you give guys a chance but then realise you're not interested. But I think if you don't even try to go out with anyone then you won't know.

I am not working this week 😉 

 I can assure you that I am open-minded and that I have been on dates.

But I feel like I haven't had much luck and it's frustrating. It's either I develop a physical or an emotional attraction. In the rare cases where I have both, the guy is probably already partnered up, or for some reason, a relationship is not possible. Things never seem to align for me ! 

I am told I am conventionally attractive so I attract (and reject) a lot of guys.

I have been trying dating apps on and off for 10 months, I meet plenty of men through my hobby (social dance) and I occasionally do Meetup. 

The friend I am talking about suffers from social anxiety, she does not go out, she uploaded a dating app and she clicked with her third date. It was clear she was attracted to him both physically and emotionally.

It's amazing, I am really happy for her but it's making me wonder if there's something wrong with me or if I am even meant to find love one day ...

[Shycarrot]

10 hours ago, yogacat said:

I feel like you're overthinking things a bit in terms of "how do I know if I'm attracted to him" - you either are or you aren't, for the most part, and I don't think him being "not my type" is the same as being unattracted to someone.

 

I understand. 

10 hours ago, yogacat said:

It doesn't seem like you two are a good fit or match. My advice would be to scale back on the philosophical and intellectual "what ifs" and focus on some action items, both internal and external... like, instead of asking if you're attracted to him, focus on figuring out if you're genuinely enjoying the time you spend with him - are you happy? Are you laughing? Are you feeling relaxed?

 

I see. Why do you think we're not a good fit or match ?

Yes, I am really happy to see him, I feel completely at ease, we laugh and I really like spending time with him. Does that count as attraction then ?

 I don't know if it's because English is not my native language, but sometimes I even struggle to understand the meaning of "feeling attracted to someone". 

10 hours ago, yogacat said:

So maybe stop analyzing his every move and just focus on your own feelings and enjoyment

Thank you, that's a good advice. 

10 hours ago, yogacat said:

And maybe take a mental step back and ask yourself if you're feeling any internal pressure to be in a relationship just because. The truth is that's doesn't matter at all, and I think it's placing unnecessary pressure on you. There is soooooooo much more to life than being in a relationship, even when society tells you otherwise.

I completely understand this. I know there's more to life than being in a relationship ! 

But I have been single almost all my life, you know. It's not that common.

I am generally content with my life. I accept my fate and I try to center my focus on personal goals (Iearning Spanish, stretching to be able to do the splits lol, learning new dance moves etc).

Now that I am settled, I have been making a tons of efforts to fill my life.  I have 2-3 social dance events per week, I go to a meet up event once a week, I tried a lot of new activities (rock climbing, Zumba dance, billiards etc ... )

I generally feel great for 3 weeks to a month ... And then, there's a trigger that sets me back 😅

For instance, if I hear or read "sex with someone you love is an amazing human experience", I (temporarily) feel like I am really missing out and that my life is not that great.

If I see my friend who tells me that she founds a boyfriend on her third date on the apps, despite the fact that she never goes out, that triggers me and I can get caught in a negative thought-spiral :

"I have been putting myself out there for a year now, why hasn't it happened ?" "why is it easier to everyone else ?" "am I supposed to be forever single ?" "maybe romantic love is not in the cards for me" "I am meant to be alone"

And I feel sad, pathetic, as an almost 31 year old virgin etc ... 

Then, I recognize that these thought patterns are not helpful, counterproductive and that finding a good and compatible partner is not completely under my control. 

Thus, I try to be more kind to myself and to accept my fate, and I bring my focus back to the activities and goals that brings me happiness. This is helpful, until the next "crisis". 

I don't know how to break this cycle yet 🙁

Anyway yes, sometimes, I feel a huge internal pressure to find a partner ! 

 

 

[Shycarrot]

10 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I think you like him as a person, you feel comfortable with him, enjoy physical touch and perhaps want to be attracted to him, but no amount of wanting it or trying to talk yourself into it is going to change the fact (imo) that it's just not happening.

I guess I am torn. 

I didn't find him physically attractive, so at first I was confused by his touch and I was scared to find him attractive.

After I got to know him, I realized he had a great personality and that I really enjoyed spending time with him. But I felt awful and guilty because I could not bring myself to find him "handsome" or at least cute.  

Currently, a part of me is fed up and frustrated and wants to develop a physical attraction to him as well, because he seems like a good person, and I am exhausted that things never line up for me.

I mentioned that I was starting to like his smile and that I wanted him to touch me. 

But I don't really know if it's meaningful, or if it's just because I am "horny", or most likely,  because I already know that his touch feels good. 

It's hard to determine.

10 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

For me, and I do know for other people too, when attracted, it's s not about his looks or personality, I may not know him well enough to even know his personality!

I understand. The funny thing is that I have felt attraction before, you are right in the sense that it's not even something I have usually have to think about. 

 

10 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

It's an energy, a chemistry between you.  And when that energy and chemistry is there, you'll know it, you'll feel it. 

I think there is that "chemistry", but it's just that I am not mesmerized by his physical appearance ? 

The last time I was physically attracted to someone, I could not stop laying my eyes on him, I really "liked" what I saw. I don't think it's the case with this man. 

10 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I am also a trauma survivor and when I feel "attracted to" a man, I feel it almost immediately!

I am very sorry. 

 

10 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Attraction is not logical.  There is nothing logical about it. 

Your choice whether or not to date him or any man is made logically but not the attraction itself. 

Attraction (beyond just the physical) is emotional and something you simply feel. 

You're not from what I can see. At least not right now and doubtful that will change. 

JMO of course.

Just out of curiosity what type of doctor are you? 

My therapist told me the same thing. 

But why are you doubtful that will change ? It's discouraging me 😅

I am a GP. 

[Shycarrot]

6 hours ago, SophiaG said:

But usually I'd find them cute or good looking so at least potentially attractive to me when we met. I don't really remember ever becoming attracted to someone I found physically unattractive initially.

I understand. Thank you. 

Well, yes, I didn't find him attractive at all when I first met him. 

When I am overly critical of me, I feel like this whole situation is my fault because I knew I didn't find him physically attractive and yet, I decided to explore our emotional connection. I should have known better.   Now, I am stuck in a confusing situation that I should have avoided in the first place.

But I know it's more complicated than that. I told him I didn't want to be more than friends, I was clear from the beginning, and hanging out with him was not wrong. 

7 hours ago, SophiaG said:

It can be a bit of a miracle but it does happen! Many people partner up at a young age with someone incompatible which leads to divorces and messy breakups. Some find their person much later in life, and some never do. It's all part of the journey I think. As you grow up you also learn more about yourself and what you want in a partner, which should make the process less confusing and more efficient (for the lack of a better word 😁)

Haha, I understand 🙂 

Well, yes, everyone has a different journey. 

It's disheartening when my efforts do not pay off. But all I can do is try to meet more people through activities that I genuinely enjoy !

For instance, I am planning to start taking salsa dance classes this week. I am very excited 😁

7 hours ago, SophiaG said:

How do you know that? Perhaps she'd spent a lot of time searching/swiping on the app! Online dating can be exhausting - been there done that - but it can also be rewarding as ultimately meeting/dating more people increases the chance of meeting someone compatible with you, and online dating sure is a good way to sift through a lot of people in a short period of time!

She also has a demanding job and she told me she spent 10 to 20 min on the apps, just like I did. 

The difference is that she does not go out at all because of her social anxiety, whereas I meet a lot of men organically too. 

Also, she tried for 3 months, whereas I have been trying for almost a year. 

She said to me that she was a "serial dater" because she had 2 first dates before her boyfriend lol 

I found it funny. 

7 hours ago, SophiaG said:

Indeed, so I'd push back on those thoughts when they pop into your head. 

Thank you. But how can I be sure that these thoughts are wrong ? 😅

7 hours ago, SophiaG said:

That's awesome and a great attitude! 

Thank you 🙂 

[Andrina]

48 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

Currently, a part of me is fed up and frustrated and wants to develop a physical attraction to him as well, because he seems like a good person, and I am exhausted that things never line up for me.

I know that's happened to me in the past, though I didn't feel the pressure as you do, since you see yourself as overdue for romance. As a teen, my friend had a brother who was so nice and I remember telling her I wish I felt chemistry with him as I was sure he'd make a great bf. 

For me, I knew that a person didn't have to wow me with his looks, but I had to find something appealing about his face where I enjoyed gazing at him.

I only know if a man was struggling in his mind to find that attraction for me because I was a kind person, I'd prefer he pass to leave me free to eventually find a man who found me great to look at. Being frustrated at the lack of attraction because you're long overdue for being in a relationship, to me, is a bad reason to pursue this. I'd keep doing what you're doing and hold out for both attraction and kindness.

[yogacat]

9 hours ago, SophiaG said:

Actually I'm not one to be strongly attracted right away (i.e. "love at the first sight") and pretty much always develop attraction after spending some time.

Me too. It's usually a slow burn for me so OP I get where you're coming from. But, that's usually after the first few dates, not several months.

Given your past, I feel you're kind of trying to find out what makes you feel a certain way and why and this man is going along for the ride. 

Do you like him, yes. Do you find him physically attractive, no. Would you like to explore these feelings to find out more about yourself, yes. Do you want to be with him in a relationship, I doubt it.

You like the attention, the intimacy, the feeling aroused by someone you feel attracted to. But you aren't in love with him, you don't find him physically attractive, you've spelled out why you could not be in an relationship with him.

You enjoy the sensation, fair enough. You haven't even kissed him, never mind cuddled with him. You are aching for a connection, all of us are. That's understandable. But you can't have one way attraction, no.

[Shycarrot]

2 hours ago, Andrina said:

I only know if a man was struggling in his mind to find that attraction for me because I was a kind person, I'd prefer he pass to leave me free to eventually find a man who found me great to look at. Being frustrated at the lack of attraction because you're long overdue for being in a relationship, to me, is a bad reason to pursue this. I'd keep doing what you're doing and hold out for both attraction and kindness.

I completely understand.

No one deserves this.

I will continue to see him again. But if my (physical) attraction for him does not grow, I will let him go. 

It would be selfish to continue to date him despite this. 

 

[SophiaG]

5 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

But I feel like I haven't had much luck and it's frustrating. It's either I develop a physical or an emotional attraction. In the rare cases where I have both, the guy is probably already partnered up, or for some reason, a relationship is not possible. Things never seem to align for me ! 

I am told I am conventionally attractive so I attract (and reject) a lot of guys.

I have been trying dating apps on and off for 10 months, I meet plenty of men through my hobby (social dance) and I occasionally do Meetup. 

Apart from the likely reason that great guys do tend to get snatched up quickly 😂 There is the theory that certain fears/insecurities may lead you to feel attracted to unavailable (taken) men. You mentioned past trauma so have you or your therapist explored that possibility?

[Shycarrot]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

You haven't even kissed him, never mind cuddled with him

Are you suggesting that I do ? 

I am pretty sure cuddling with him would be really nice. To be honest, every time he touches me, I crave for more affection and the thought of cuddling with him crosses my mind. 

 

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

Do you like him, yes. Do you find him physically attractive, no. Would you like to explore these feelings to find out more about yourself, yes. Do you want to be with him in a relationship, I doubt it.

Yes, I like him. I am not sure about the physical attraction yet. 

I would like to explore these feelings. If I end up finding him attractive, I think a relationship with him has a lot (good) potential. 
 

But I need to stop analyzing this situation, honestly.
I get so wrapped up in my own head that I don’t even remember how I feel when I see him ! 
My brain is filling the gaps and I am not sure my interpretations are reliable anymore 🤯

I need to think less and act more ! 
 

A week ago I wrote that I couldn’t wait to see him, that I was thinking about him all the time, that I liked his smile etc … and it was absolutely true ! 
Now, the warm and nice sensations I got have all been replaced by negative thoughts, self-doubts, worries etc

But he didn’t do anything wrong !

It’s on me, I should have managed my emotions better. 
 

 

 

[SophiaG]

3 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

She also has a demanding job and she told me she spent 10 to 20 min on the apps, just like I did. 

The difference is that she does not go out at all because of her social anxiety, whereas I meet a lot of men organically too. 

Also, she tried for 3 months, whereas I have been trying for almost a year. 

Sounds like your friend is just incredibly lucky then!

Meanwhile you might find it harder because of your standards (not that it's a bad thing!). I tried online dating on and off for very long and it got frustrating many times. Many of my friends also meet their SO through apps and it does feel unfair sometimes. I know I'm picky and particular about many things which undoubtedly shrank my dating pool. When I got frustrated I reminded myself that I have the qualities to be an amazing partner and deserve the same in my future partner, even if it means it takes longer to find him.

3 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

But how can I be sure that these thoughts are wrong ? 😅

I think in this case it doesn't matter if those thoughts are right or wrong (if it's even possible to define that) but they are unhelpful. As you realize they can become a self-fulfilling prophecy and they make you sad so they serve no purpose in your brain. Delete them!

4 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

"I have been putting myself out there for a year now, why hasn't it happened ?" "why is it easier to everyone else ?" "am I supposed to be forever single ?" "maybe romantic love is not in the cards for me" "I am meant to be alone"

And I feel sad, pathetic, as an almost 31 year old virgin etc ... 

I've had all these feelings when I felt like I tried hard to meet people and couldn't find someone I like. Sometimes changing something about myself did help (I was very depressed for a period of time and as my friends pointed out I went on dates pointlessly without even remembering the names of the guys I dated. How could I have felt attraction in that state?), other times it's just a game of patience and persistence while reminding myself I have a good, fulfilling life outside of romantic relationships (as you obviously do!). 31 is very young. If you are in no hurry of having children (which can be its own daunting task but as a doctor you probably know a lot more than I do about the options for that) you have plenty of time to find your love.

Now, if you are not waiting for marriage and want to experience sex even if a relationship with the person doesn't eventually work out, you can very easily change the virgin part - but is that what you want?

4 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Then, I recognize that these thought patterns are not helpful, counterproductive and that finding a good and compatible partner is not completely under my control. 

Thus, I try to be more kind to myself and to accept my fate, and I bring my focus back to the activities and goals that brings me happiness. This is helpful, until the next "crisis". 

Great approach - and the fact you'll have setbacks again doesn't mean these methods are not working. It's a constant battle not a one-time cure. Keep enforcing these positive thinking patterns and if the "crises" become fewer and farther between, that's a win!

3 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

For instance, I am planning to start taking salsa dance classes this week. I am very excited 😁

That sounds awesome. Salsa is fun - enjoy!

 

[SophiaG]

4 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

The last time I was physically attracted to someone, I could not stop laying my eyes on him, I really "liked" what I saw. I don't think it's the case with this man.

Yes, that's a telltale sign for physical attraction IMO. And it does make life a lot better to have a partner like that 😁

3 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

Are you suggesting that I do ? 

I am pretty sure cuddling with him would be really nice. To be honest, every time he touches me, I crave for more affection and the thought of cuddling with him crosses my mind.

I'm a bold person and would actually suggest you not only cuddle, but explore further physical intimacy with him like kissing, touching him, etc. to the extent you are comfortable with. Like my "experiments" have told me, experiencing those things with him may tell you more definitively if you enjoy intimacy with him or anything sexual actually turns you off. Of course, the side effect is that your current "friendship" (using quotes because clearly at least one of you wants more than friendship, so you probably can't be friends for long anyways) might have to end after the experiment.

I have a friend I've known for many years. I never found him physically attractive but during a dry spell our conversations became more flirty and I considered if I might want to date him. We were long distance at the time and planned to take a trip together. I even had multiple dreams of having sex with him (lol). Eventually, the trip didn't happen for other reasons and I realized I still wasn't attracted and was just enjoying his attention and company so it was probably for the best.

12 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

A week ago I wrote that I couldn’t wait to see him, that I was thinking about him all the time, that I liked his smile etc … and it was absolutely true ! 
Now, the warm and nice sensations I got have all been replaced by negative thoughts, self-doubts, worries etc

Have you seen him since?

[yogacat]

1 hour ago, Shycarrot said:

Are you suggesting that I do ? 

I am pretty sure cuddling with him would be really nice. To be honest, every time he touches me, I crave for more affection and the thought of cuddling with him crosses my mind. 

 

Yes, I like him. I am not sure about the physical attraction yet. 

I would like to explore these feelings. If I end up finding him attractive, I think a relationship with him has a lot (good) potential. 
 

But I need to stop analyzing this situation, honestly.
I get so wrapped up in my own head that I don’t even remember how I feel when I see him ! 
My brain is filling the gaps and I am not sure my interpretations are reliable anymore 🤯

I need to think less and act more ! 
 

A week ago I wrote that I couldn’t wait to see him, that I was thinking about him all the time, that I liked his smile etc … and it was absolutely true ! 
Now, the warm and nice sensations I got have all been replaced by negative thoughts, self-doubts, worries etc

But he didn’t do anything wrong !

It’s on me, I should have managed my emotions better. 
 

 

 

No, I don't suggest you kiss or cuddle with him because it doesn't sound like that's what you really want. I went on a second date with a man that I wasn't immediately attracted to and by the second date I DID feel attracted so I went in for a kiss. After the kiss, I was a smitten kitten.

I did not have this level of ambivalence towards him. You've had it since June, granted, everyone moves at their own pace but at this point you're just treading water and wasting both of your precious time.

I am not trying to be mean but this is friend-zoning. I think you need to be real with yourself. You enjoy his company and conversation. You have fun with him. You like feeling feminine and enjoying his touches that make you feel comfortable and secure. For sure, the touchy-feely behavior means something. But it's not romantically driven. 

You don't have to stop thinking so much, you just have to address what it all means.

Figure out why you're struggling so much with this situation. Is it because you don't want to lose him as a friend? Are you trying to force feelings that aren't there because you want to be in a relationship? Are you afraid of being alone and this is better than nothing? Identify the root of your confusion and address it. And most importantly, be honest with him about your boundaries and feelings.

Don't lead him on or give him false hope. At some point, you have to say to yourself, I enjoy his company but I don't feel a romantic connection and so it is only fair that I tell him that. Give him the choice to continue as a friend or not, but be honest and don't string him along. 

[Shycarrot]

2 hours ago, yogacat said:

No, I don't suggest you kiss or cuddle with him because it doesn't sound like that's what you really want. I went on a second date with a man that I wasn't immediately attracted to and by the second date I DID feel attracted so I went in for a kiss. After the kiss, I was a smitten kitten.

I am sorry, I don’t have much time at the moment but I am going to reply more thoroughly later !

 

2 hours ago, yogacat said:

I did not have this level of ambivalence towards him. You've had it since June, granted, everyone moves at their own pace but at this point you're just treading water and wasting both of your precious time.

I have had this ambivalence for a month now, ever since he started to touch me. Before that, he was on vacation for a month, and before his vacation, we only hung out once and apart from this, I saw him regularly at dance events but we barely interacted. 
 

2 hours ago, yogacat said:

Figure out why you're struggling so much with this situation. Is it because you don't want to lose him as a friend? Are you trying to force feelings that aren't there because you want to be in a relationship? Are you afraid of being alone and this is better than nothing? Identify the root of your confusion and address it. And most importantly, be honest with him about your boundaries and feelings.

It’s probably the 3 in the following orders : I am scared of losing him as a friend, but now that I think about it, we were never « friends » and he probably had an agenda from the beginning. 

I may be trying to force feelings because for once, I would like things to «work », especially knowing that we get on so well, and I also enjoy the closeness and intimacy our « friendship » provides. But I am aware it’s very unhealthy, especially the last point. 
 I am definitely planning to talk to him  about my feelings. I just have not had the chance yet (I’d rather have this conversation face to face).

 

2 hours ago, yogacat said:

Don't lead him on or give him false hope. At some point, you have to say to yourself, I enjoy his company but I don't feel a romantic connection and so it is only fair that I tell him that. Give him the choice to continue as a friend or not, but be honest and don't string him along.

Don’t worry, I am already planning to do this. I don’t want to lead him on either ! 
 

If everything goes according to plans, I will be seing him in a few hours 🤞🏼

[Tinydance]

I'm so annoyed at myself because I wrote a long reply yesterday but hit some kind of button by mistake to post anonymously. Which I didn't actually want to do! Lol It said the moderators would need to approve it but they haven't approved it yet. I'm not sure if they will but it seems to be taking a while in any case.

In regards to this guy, if you want to do a bit more analysing...Try to think, do you feel about your female friends the same? Like, do you get aroused if they touch you? Do you think about them a lot? Is it the same kind of feeling? If not then I'd say you actually are attracted to him. If you don't feel about him the same as all your friends but feel more, I'd say it's not platonic.

What I said in my post which didn't get approved yet is that there's no harm in trying to spend more time with him one-on-one. You don't have to sleep with him but I think it would be fine to kiss him. I don't think you would be leading him on if you just go on one or two dates.

Sure, you don't find him stereotypically handsome but that's not always how attraction works. Sometimes we can be attracted to someone who isn't objectively that hot or cute but to US they are. There is that saying: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Not sure if you know it if you're not from an English speaking country. Basically it means YOU are the person looking at someone and it's how YOU feel. Some people may find someone average but another person will think they're beautiful (to them). 

Something that I noticed is you seem to have conflicting feelings and ideas about dating. For example in your old posts about your best friend, you said you were happy she was with that guy who's a university professor. But yet you kept saying things about him like that maybe he wasn't a good guy for her because he's older, he said/did something you thought was bad, etc.

I could be wrong but I actually do get the sense that you are overly cautious and avoidant. I think going on dates is a great start but it actually takes more than that. Giving someone a chance isn't just sitting on a date with them but it's about really opening up your mind and giving them a chance. The people who found someone I'm pretty sure are people who didn't dwell on small details and focused on the good in that person. E.g. Maybe someone has acne but they have a lot of great qualities.

You don't need to date people you're really not into. But the fact you're an attractive young doctor but you've never really had a relationship tells me maybe you're pushing all the guys away. There is nothing wrong with you in the sense you're a nice person, you're attractive and smart. But you are self sabotaging your chances of relationship.

[Jaunty]

6 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

It would be selfish to continue to date him despite this. 

I may have missed something along the way ...but in your original post you wrote:

 

Quote

I told him after dinner that I wasn't looking for anything more than friendship

And he responded with something along the lines of him just wanting to hang out with interesting people so it was fine.

But in the month between that post and now - you describe what you are doing as "dating."  

His physical behavior does sound like dating, but when did YOU decide that you two are dating?

My friend - this is very confusing.   I am confused.  I can imagine that he must be as well. 

[Shycarrot]

11 hours ago, Jaunty said:

I may have missed something along the way ...but in your original post you wrote:

 

And he responded with something along the lines of him just wanting to hang out with interesting people so it was fine.

But in the month between that post and now - you describe what you are doing as "dating."  

His physical behavior does sound like dating, but when did YOU decide that you two are dating?

My friend - this is very confusing.   I am confused.  I can imagine that he must be as well. 

We are currently not dating, just hanging out.  

 

11 hours ago, Jaunty said:

It would be selfish to continue to date him despite this.

I should not have used the world "continue" because we never did. 

 

 

[Shycarrot]

13 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I'm so annoyed at myself because I wrote a long reply yesterday but hit some kind of button by mistake to post anonymously. Which I didn't actually want to do! Lol It said the moderators would need to approve it but they haven't approved it yet. I'm not sure if they will but it seems to be taking a while in any case

I am so sorry 😢 Thank you for typing this again, I hope it didn't take too much of your time ! 

I am really grateful for your help, all of you ! 

13 hours ago, Tinydance said:

In regards to this guy, if you want to do a bit more analysing...Try to think, do you feel about your female friends the same? Like, do you get aroused if they touch you? Do you think about them a lot? Is it the same kind of feeling? If not then I'd say you actually are attracted to him. If you don't feel about him the same as all your friends but feel more, I'd say it's not platonic.

 

Firstly, let me say that this is the first time in my life that I am this confused about my feelings. In general, it's either Yes or No when it comes to attraction. 

Those are relevant questions ! If I compare to my female friends, it's obvious that this feels a bit different.

 Even if I compare to my male friends :  I absolutely do not get aroused when they hug me (I can't speak about the touching, because they never touch me in "sensitive" areas like my waist, thighs etc ...).

I do not care if they get romantically close to other women and I never scrutinize their interactions with other women, but I think I do with this guy. If I notice that he's close to another girl, I am slightly annoyed/jealous.  

If I am watching a romantic movie, my male friends do not come to mind whereas he does. So I am not sure it's completely platonic, but it's not an intense attraction either ! 

Besides, I notice that I have stopped looking for new men to date because in my mind, I already have him, even though we're not officially dating. 

 

13 hours ago, Tinydance said:

What I said in my post which didn't get approved yet is that there's no harm in trying to spend more time with him one-on-one. You don't have to sleep with him but I think it would be fine to kiss him. I don't think you would be leading him on if you just go on one or two dates.

Thank you. We are planning to bake a cake at his place tomorrow 🙂 I barely saw him yesterday, so I have not had a chance to talk about my feelings yet. 

But I notice you're using the word "date", can it be a "date" if he does not know ? I think the meaning of the word "date" is still unclear to me lol

Never mind 🙂 

13 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Sure, you don't find him stereotypically handsome but that's not always how attraction works. Sometimes we can be attracted to someone who isn't objectively that hot or cute but to US they are. There is that saying: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Not sure if you know it if you're not from an English speaking country. Basically it means YOU are the person looking at someone and it's how YOU feel. Some people may find someone average but another person will think they're beautiful (to them). 

I could not agree more. I have already been attracted to men who were not conventionally attractive. I am familiar with that saying 😉 But I had some "rose tinted glasses" that made it feel nice to look at him. 

Thanks to your replies, I know how I will behave, but I am still conflicted for the following reasons.

On one hand, I think I could focus on the "positive" sides as he truly has some great qualities that I am looking for in a partner. I feel comfortable with him, I trust him, I enjoy spending time with him etc. Also I feel shallow to pay this much attention to his physical appearance ! He's so much more than that

Aside from this, I suppose attraction can manifests in different ways. So you are right  that exploring things with him will give me some clarity :

- If it works, I will have learnt that physical attraction from the start is not a requirement, as long as there is some form of "attraction"

- If it does not, I will know that I should not pursue someone I am not physically attracted to.

Obviously, the downside is that our friendship will not survive 😞 And that I would hurt him ... 

 

On the other hand, I have never been in a long term relationship, I don't know how "crucial" it is to feel some physical attraction. Some people here and from what I have read online suggest that it's "unfair" to date someone that you don't find good-looking because everyone deserves this. 

Plus, I am obviously scared that this lack of attraction will doom the relationship from the start. Like, what if I am trying to fit a square peg in a round hole ? 

13 hours ago, Tinydance said:

The people who found someone I'm pretty sure are people who didn't dwell on small details and focused on the good in that person. E.g. Maybe someone has acne but they have a lot of great qualities.

I completely understand, but I don't know if this is 100% accurate ? I met my ex when I was 23 and not looking. It was clear that I was attracted, sure, I was anxious so my mind was filled with "what ifs". But on the whole, I felt an attraction.

My ex wasn't a supermodel, my best friend at the time told me he was "plain-looking" even though I didn't ask for her opinion ! 

After that, I had even less free time and my "crushes" were mainly colleagues ... who almost always turned out to be in a relationship. I had no trouble feeling attracted to them and I didn't focus on "details", you know. 

Having said that, I think I had feelings for a coworker who was single, at some point, but I didn't pursue it because I was scared and he was living in an island in which I had absolutely no plans to stay and who was located 1000 km away from my hometown.

I don't think I regret it, but another person would probably have taken the plunge !

And you're right in the sense that when I swipe on dating apps, I am very selective. Probably too much ! That's precisely why I chose to meet men organically instead 🙂 

Because in real life, I can not predict attraction, I can be attracted to someone who does not fit my "criteria" and vice versa !

While dating apps pushed me to approach dating like I was at the grocery store, with a precise list of attributes that I was looking for, mercilessly discarding anyone who didn't fit my criteria 😅

Of course, I decided to change my strategy and swipe with an open-mind.  If recall correctly, I had one or 2 dates like this but they didn't work out and I was too burned out to continue swiping.

So my last official date from dating apps was in early June this year.

Maybe I give up too easily 🤔

 

13 hours ago, Tinydance said:

You don't need to date people you're really not into. But the fact you're an attractive young doctor but you've never really had a relationship tells me maybe you're pushing all the guys away. There is nothing wrong with you in the sense you're a nice person, you're attractive and smart. But you are self sabotaging your chances of relationship

Thank you for saying that there's nothing wrong with me. 

To be fair, I didn't have the time to date for a good portion of my late 20s. I was moving a lot, I was healing from my traumas with lots of therapy. And I simply had other priorities. 

It's something that I can consider. The question is : with this guy, am I unreasonably focusing on the lack of physical attraction or is this guy just not a good fit for me ? 

Only the future can tell. 

[Jaunty]

25 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

 

It's something that I can consider. The question is : with this guy, am I unreasonably focusing on the lack of physical attraction or is this guy just not a good fit for me ? 

 

Maybe you are confused about what "physical attraction" actually is.  

Are you saying that you simply don't find him handsome?   

Because all the descriptions of how you feel about him touching you, how you're thinking of him when he's not around, etc. seem to indicate that you ARE attracted to him.

If you were not I don't think you'd be feeling these ways or having these thoughts.

I still feel a bit suspicious of his propensity to touch you in intimate ways when you told him you only wanted friendship, though. 

He might really like you, or he might think that you'd be "easy" because you have permitted this immediately after telling him "friendship only."

Anyway I hope things turn out the way you really would like them to and you don't kill everything before it can get started (if you'd like it to start) with this kind of scrutiny.

Any kind of relationship needs room for exploration and discovery.  Nobody can know everything as it's unfolding.  You have to be able to experience, observe and learn.

Also - the world is full of happy couples where one (or both) were not bowled over by the other's external appearance, and yet they fell in love.

[Jaunty]

One question:  You've referred several times to your traumas and how you were healing from them.  Can you share the nature of your traumas?  I am not asking for details, but I am wondering if what happened to you is triggering your propensity for ruminating and circular thinking about something that could be simple.

[Shycarrot]

On 10/9/2024 at 1:42 PM, Jaunty said:

One question:  You've referred several times to your traumas and how you were healing from them.  Can you share the nature of your traumas?  I am not asking for details, but I am wondering if what happened to you is triggering your propensity for ruminating and circular thinking about something that could be simple.

Thanks for your reply ! 

My mother was emotionally and physically abusive, my father basically enabled her abuse and didn't protect his children.

I am not sure I can pinpoint why I tend to ruminate exactly, sorry, but for what it's worth, I was always in a hypervigilance state as a kid and I still struggle with this from time to time.

Now that I think about it, my rumination is closely linked to my anxiety. I rarely get one without the other ! 

Anyway, your last sentence made feel better : it is a "simple matter" overall. My mind just makes it seem bigger. 

 

 

[Shycarrot]

On 10/9/2024 at 1:40 PM, Jaunty said:

Maybe you are confused about what "physical attraction" actually is.  

Are you saying that you simply don't find him handsome?   

Because all the descriptions of how you feel about him touching you, how you're thinking of him when he's not around, etc. seem to indicate that you ARE attracted to him.

If you were not I don't think you'd be feeling these ways or having these thoughts

Yes, I may be confused about the meaning of "physical attraction" then 😅 

I saw my therapist again on Thursday and she advised me, again, to let myself "feel" my feelings instead of focusing to my anxiety-driven thoughts. 

That's what I am trying to do, keeping myself busy to stop overthinking etc

Anyway, I went to his place on Thursday evening, we baked a cake and watched some TV. It was really nice.

When we were sitting close to each other, he started to stroke my back, at some point, he asked if he could hold my hand.

He's always on my mind, and I think I look forward to seeing him again ? 

On 10/9/2024 at 1:40 PM, Jaunty said:

I still feel a bit suspicious of his propensity to touch you in intimate ways when you told him you only wanted friendship, though. 

He might really like you, or he might think that you'd be "easy" because you have permitted this immediately after telling him "friendship only."

I know, that still worries me a bit but I suppose that if I had set firmer boundaries about him not touching me, he would have respected them ? 

I really hope he does not think I am easy or stupid/ignorant for letting him touch me after I stated "friendship only" 😬

On 10/9/2024 at 1:40 PM, Jaunty said:

Also - the world is full of happy couples where one (or both) were not bowled over by the other's external appearance, and yet they fell in love.

It's true, thank you so much 🙂

 

[Shycarrot]

On 10/8/2024 at 5:39 PM, SophiaG said:

Sounds like your friend is just incredibly lucky then!

Meanwhile you might find it harder because of your standards (not that it's a bad thing!). I tried online dating on and off for very long and it got frustrating many times. Many of my friends also meet their SO through apps and it does feel unfair sometimes. I know I'm picky and particular about many things which undoubtedly shrank my dating pool. When I got frustrated I reminded myself that I have the qualities to be an amazing partner and deserve the same in my future partner, even if it means it takes longer to find him.

This is an amazing advice ! What are you picky about, if you don't mind my asking ?

Yes, dating can be so frustrating. Reading about your experience makes me feel less lonely (but also, I am sorry you went through this). 

I don't know if I am particularly picky ... but now that I think about it, I have this huge requirement that the guy I am dating must be kind and empathetic 😅

You would say it's normal, but I think I only trust people (men when it comes to dating) when they seem "safe" and more kind/considerate than average, which exclude a lot of people by definition. 

This guy broke my initial boundary when he started to touch me, but others actions and behaviors made up for it I would say. 

On 10/8/2024 at 5:39 PM, SophiaG said:

I've had all these feelings when I felt like I tried hard to meet people and couldn't find someone I like. Sometimes changing something about myself did help (I was very depressed for a period of time and as my friends pointed out I went on dates pointlessly without even remembering the names of the guys I dated. How could I have felt attraction in that state?), other times it's just a game of patience and persistence while reminding myself I have a good, fulfilling life outside of romantic relationships (as you obviously do!). 31 is very young. If you are in no hurry of having children (which can be its own daunting task but as a doctor you probably know a lot more than I do about the options for that) you have plenty of time to find your love

Thank you so much for this ! I am sorry you went through this as well. 

I understand. Going on dates "pointlessly" ... Yeah, I went through a phase like this lol, that's why I decided to quit the apps. 

I hope everything worked out for you 🙂 

Also, I  currently on the process of freezing my eggs, I had one round last July and I am planning to do a second in a few months. I am not sure I want children yet, but I am doing this as a precaution and I would be happy to donate my eggs if I don't use them. 

On 10/8/2024 at 5:39 PM, SophiaG said:

Now, if you are not waiting for marriage and want to experience sex even if a relationship with the person doesn't eventually work out, you can very easily change the virgin part - but is that what you want?

 I have no way to predict if a relationship is going to "work out" or not, so at this point, I am just waiting for a guy that I can trust and who I am attracted to. This does not happen very often, I am afraid 😅

I could give casual sex a try but I am not sure this would be fulfilling ? Maybe in 2-3 years, if my situation has not changed, I would reconsider it ! 

On 10/8/2024 at 5:39 PM, SophiaG said:

Great approach - and the fact you'll have setbacks again doesn't mean these methods are not working. It's a constant battle not a one-time cure. Keep enforcing these positive thinking patterns and if the "crises" become fewer and farther between, that's a win!

This is very helpful, thank you very much 🌷

On 10/8/2024 at 5:39 PM, SophiaG said:

That sounds awesome. Salsa is fun - enjoy!

Yes, it's amazing !!! I loved it and couldn't recommend it enough !! 

Thank you 🙂 

[Shycarrot]

On 10/8/2024 at 5:17 PM, SophiaG said:

Apart from the likely reason that great guys do tend to get snatched up quickly 😂 There is the theory that certain fears/insecurities may lead you to feel attracted to unavailable (taken) men. You mentioned past trauma so have you or your therapist explored that possibility?

Yes, I asked her if she could deduce this form my past experience ! But she didn't seem to think it was the case

[Tinydance]

44 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

Yes, I may be confused about the meaning of "physical attraction" then 😅 

I saw my therapist again on Thursday and she advised me, again, to let myself "feel" my feelings instead of focusing to my anxiety-driven thoughts. 

That's what I am trying to do, keeping myself busy to stop overthinking etc

Anyway, I went to his place on Thursday evening, we baked a cake and watched some TV. It was really nice.

When we were sitting close to each other, he started to stroke my back, at some point, he asked if he could hold my hand.

He's always on my mind, and I think I look forward to seeing him again ? 

I know, that still worries me a bit but I suppose that if I had set firmer boundaries about him not touching me, he would have respected them ? 

I really hope he does not think I am easy or stupid/ignorant for letting him touch me after I stated "friendship only" 😬

It's true, thank you so much 🙂

 

OK I don't actually see what the problem is? This guy likes you and from everything you said, you like him too. If you really look forward to seeing him and you actually never told him not to touch you, that's obviously for a reason. I mean, you did say you feel aroused when he touches you. I don't see what would be the harm to try to date him? 

[SophiaG]

3 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

This is an amazing advice ! What are you picky about, if you don't mind my asking ?

Yes, dating can be so frustrating. Reading about your experience makes me feel less lonely (but also, I am sorry you went through this). 

I don't know if I am particularly picky ... but now that I think about it, I have this huge requirement that the guy I am dating must be kind and empathetic 😅

You would say it's normal, but I think I only trust people (men when it comes to dating) when they seem "safe" and more kind/considerate than average, which exclude a lot of people by definition. 

This guy broke my initial boundary when he started to touch me, but others actions and behaviors made up for it I would say.

Like you my first requirement is also of the character. I also had some trust issues from the past and want someone transparent, loyal, and consistent with strong morals. Beyond that, I'm very much attracted to intelligence but also can't do without physical attraction 😅 After a few failed relationships I realized how crucial emotional maturity and stability can be, and I need to feel loved when I'm vulnerable so I want someone attentive, devoted, and empathetic. Sexual compatibility and healthy lifestyle are also very important to me. There are also many nice-to-have qualities I seek like humor, shared hobbies, political values, etc.... It's a lot 😂

I think more people experienced similar frustration in dating than you might think. I've been told many times, by friends, family and (failed) dates, that I'm too picky and want too much, but I found it really hard to give up on any of my non-negotiables - I tried - and I truly believe I can offer all the equivalent qualities and I'd be more than happy to date a female version of myself. It's not like I'm claiming to be or looking for someone with movie star looks or Nobel laureate intelligence, just someone I can have an intellectual connection with and enjoy the sight of. Still that seemed so hard to achieve.

When you say more kind/considerate than average what actions/behaviors are you looking for? Some people especially introverts might come across as cold or aloof to strangers/acquaintances but can be very warm/kind to close  friends or partners. Maybe you can give those people more chance to get to know you and show that part of themselves?

3 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

I hope everything worked out for you 🙂 

Also, I  currently on the process of freezing my eggs, I had one round last July and I am planning to do a second in a few months. I am not sure I want children yet, but I am doing this as a precaution and I would be happy to donate my eggs if I don't use them.

Hope it goes well!

As for me things seem to have finally taken a good turn - after some frustrating years and unsuccessful attempts I'm now in a relationship that's still relatively new but looking quite promising so far. I didn't exactly find a female version of myself 😅 but I found a lovely man that pretty much checked all my important boxes and some more. Of course there's still room for improvement as none of us can be perfect but I never felt the need to morph him into a different person to fit my ideal model of a boyfriend or that I need to change myself to fit his. Actually I find it hard to even imagine being happier with another person 😁 I hope you find the person who triggers these feelings in you soon!

4 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Anyway, I went to his place on Thursday evening, we baked a cake and watched some TV. It was really nice.

When we were sitting close to each other, he started to stroke my back, at some point, he asked if he could hold my hand.

He's always on my mind, and I think I look forward to seeing him again ? 

That sounds cute! Did you let him hold your hand and if you did, how did that feel? Hand holding was one of the "tests" that definitively told me if I could be romantically attracted to someone or not. Also I remember you said you were going to talk to him to establish better boundaries about physical touches - did you have that conversation?