Am I attracted or not ?

[DarkCh0c0]

1 hour ago, Shycarrot said:

But if he was so kind and considerate, he would not have crossed my boundaries by starting to become touchy when I explicitly said I didn’t want anything more than friendship, would he ? 

Exactly.

[Shycarrot]

Hello ! 

I hope each of you is going well 🙂 

I just wanted to give you an update about my situation because there has been some change lately that I would like to discuss. 

I still hang out with the guy I mentioned at social dance parties, at least twice a week. Also, even though I was really confused, I still wanted to keep in touch with him so to this day, we still text daily. Sorry, I know some of you advised against it ! 

The thing is, I am noticing that he's almost always in my thoughts, I am very excited to see him, the conversational chemistry is amazing and I am slowly starting to find things I like about his appearance (his smile etc ...). 

It's pretty clear from his body language (more on that later) that he's attracted to me, but I certainly don't want to jump right in. Plus, there are certain things that set me back...

I find it hard to remain objective so I would to get an outside perspective to rule-out some subtle red-flags that I may have missed 😅

Here are the things that I like about him :

he seems calm, respectful and benevolent towards others, he's well liked by his peers especially women in the dancing community, and I think it's because contrary to many men in the scene, he does not give off creepy/predatory vibes etc ... 

Plus, the conversation is easy, he makes me laugh, we have the same ethical/political values. He's curious, witty, we can talk about almost anything. He also seems to like me for me, he regularly compliments my personality traits, my values etc ... 

But obviously, there are some things that are bothering me and I don't know if my worries are well-founded. 

One of my best friend recently met her boyfriend and I am very happy because he seems like a great guy ! Listening to her raving about him made me realize that some things were off with the current guy...

First things first, he's still touching me. I enjoy it enough not to intervene.

But he also knows that I am not particularly assertive and that I sometimes struggle to set boundaries, he told me himself (in the right context).

Despite this, rarely does he asks if I am okay with him putting his hand on my thigh or him stroking my hair.  

Of course, I am an adult and I know I have to stand up for myself !  

But I would have liked if he was a bit more thoughtful in this regard, especially as he knows that I sometimes struggle to say "no" 😕

Conversely, my friend's boyfriend always asks if he can touch her, where etc ...

 

Second, even though I wrote that he seemed calm I actually don't know him that well. He seems "overly protective". For instance, I mentioned that I, and plenty of my female friends didn't like a particular dancing spot because it was a well-known-fact that it was not safe : some men were drunk, clumsy, insistent etc... I added that I had a bad experience when we were there earlier.  

The look of his face changed and suddenly, he seemed really annoyed. He said something like "could you tell me if this happen again ?" He jokingly said that he would "beat up the guy". 

But I don't know him enough to be sure that it was a joke ? All I know is that when they were 19 and 20, his brother and him had a physical fight 😕 

Third, I notice that he gets more touchy with me after he notices that other men are flirting with me or if he incidentally learns that I am texting others guys (or the other way around).

My anxiety tells me that he's actually a misogynist who only views me as a property that he wants to "conquer". Thus, when he feels threatened, he becomes more touchy. 

But I may be overthinking things a little lol. 

Regarding the first point, I guess I could ask him to ask for consent before he initiates anything physical.

His reply could be a deal-maker or a deal-breaker 🤷‍♀️

 

Thank you so much for your help 🌹

 

 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

15 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

My anxiety tells me that he's actually a misogynist who only views me as a property that he wants to "conquer". Thus, when he feels threatened, he becomes more touchy. 

But I may be overthinking things a little lol. 

Regarding the first point, I guess I could ask him to ask for consent before he initiates anything physical.

It's really not fair to him if you truly think this of him whether it's your anxious side or otherwise- it makes no sense that you have what you call "conversational chemistry" -you like talking to him, he likes talking to you simply put but then you wonder if he's a misogynist and wants to control you?? What an awful thing to think of a friend.  And why are  you hanging out at that particular dance place if you have such a low opinion of the men there? 

You are an adult- he doesn't need to ask your permission to be touchy at this point IMO.  If you want that boundary totally fine but you as an adult must communicate it clearly -he sees you enjoy it so why should he stop?

[Shycarrot]

9 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

then you wonder if he's a misogynist and wants to control you?? What an awful thing to think of a friend

We're not friends yet and I still have an urge to protect myself

 

9 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

And why are  you hanging out at that particular dance place if you have such a low opinion of the men there? 

It's not that I have a low opinion of the men there, it's that several women were assaulted. I still go if my friends are there, but I know that I have to be extra cautious. 

9 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

he sees you enjoy it so why should he stop?

How does he sees that I like it ? I am completely stoic. 

From his point of view, it's just that I rarely push his hand away. But again, he knows that I struggle to do this anyway ... 

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

We're not friends yet and I still have an urge to protect myself

 

It's not that I have a low opinion of the men there, it's that several women were assaulted. I still go if my friends are there, but I know that I have to be extra cautious. 

How does he sees that I like it ? I am completely stoic. 

From his point of view, it's just that I rarely push his hand away. But again, he knows that I struggle to do this anyway ... 

it’s not his job to help you be direct with him. Please don’t go to a group where women have been assaulted. Why take that risk ? We all protect ourselves from harm. The extent to which you do and thinking this man who you are all cuddly with might be a misogynist?? Seems extremely unhealthy to me. I don’t think it’s self protection but telling yourself bizarre stories painting men as potential misogynists. 

[LootieTootie]

I do think you are overthinking here - your feelings are all over the place. I don't know if you have concrete examples of him being a misogynist, but the ones you wrote don't sound like it would fit the definition. Don't take this the wrong way, but are you sure you are even ready to date or put yourself out there to date? I ask this because when I read your posts, you don't seem sure of yourself to be direct/open, and you also have some deep-seeded emotional issues about men.

However, I also think you are in the right direction about setting boundaries with him and see what he says and do.

10 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

 

Regarding the first point, I guess I could ask him to ask for consent before he initiates anything physical.

His reply could be a deal-maker or a deal-breaker 🤷‍♀️

 

 

 

[Shycarrot]

6 hours ago, LootieTootie said:

I do think you are overthinking here - your feelings are all over the place. I don't know if you have concrete examples of him being a misogynist, but the ones you wrote don't sound like it would fit the definition.

Thank you so much for your reply ! I was feeling panicky when I wrote this and it shows 😅 I am sorry.

For context, I didn't have a good relationship with my last therapist and she kind of exacerbated my problems, implying that something was fundamentally wrong with me because I was attracted to abusive men on a subconscious level.

She added the hurtful "you don't know how to spot red-flags" and even though I disagree, this has made me difficult to completely trust myself now.

I have been seeing a new therapist for 2 months now, she's way more kind and helpful, but my former therapist's words still linger. 

That's why I am sometimes terrified at the thought of missing obvious red-flags ! 

When I am more regulated, I tell myself that I am actually pretty good at spotting them. And besides, even if I date this guy and realize later on that he is abusive (lacks empathy, belittles me etc ...) or that we have an unfulfilling relationship, I will leave. I also tend to have a glass half full perspective : every experience teaches me something and could be useful in the future.

 

6 hours ago, LootieTootie said:

Don't take this the wrong way, but are you sure you are even ready to date or put yourself out there to date? I ask this because when I read your posts, you don't seem sure of yourself to be direct/open, and you also have some deep-seeded emotional issues about men.

 

Don't worry, I don't feel offended. 

Well, I think healing from my traumas is not a linear process, and hence, I will always have some moments of self-doubts, anxiety etc ? 

I know I have made progresses in the sense that I am better at regulating myself and I can see more clearly how my emotional state affect my thoughts.

I also know that I have a lot to offer, even though from my posts, I look like an emotional mess lol 

Regarding my issues with men, it is true that I don't trust them easily. But despite this, I have one close male friend and many casual friends. So I can technically feel safe with them, it just takes time ! 

7 hours ago, LootieTootie said:

However, I also think you are in the right direction about setting boundaries with him and see what he says and do.

Thank you so much ! 

I will do. 

 

[Jaunty]

1 hour ago, Shycarrot said:

 

For context, I didn't have a good relationship with my last therapist and she kind of exacerbated my problems, implying that something was fundamentally wrong with me because I was attracted to abusive men on a subconscious level.

She added the hurtful "you don't know how to spot red-flags" and even though I disagree, this has made me difficult to completely trust myself now.

 

 

I'm sorry that those things hurt your feelings but often we need difficult truths from therapists.  You actually may NOT know how to spot red flags.  That is not an insult. It might just be a fact and an important thing that the therapist felt you needed to work on.

Anyway I'm glad you have one you feel better with but please don't approach therapy as a situation meant to make you feel good in the moment.  Often it's not feeling good at all while we face tough realities about how we have been going about things.

This guy ... I feel like you're thinking way too much about him.

You barely know him and have had minimal contact with him ... he does not warrant such a prominent place in your psyche.

He's shown you that he is not really interested in being a platonic "friend" so just stop hanging around with him and texting him every day.

It's true that he's crossing your boundaries but to be fair, he probably thinks he has a chance since your actions don't really align with your words.

Daily texting and hanging out with a guy who evidently did express interest in dating you is not generally a good idea unless you WANT him to think he does have a chance.  

Hang out with your real friends.

[Shycarrot]

2 hours ago, Jaunty said:

but often we need difficult truths from therapists.  

Thank you so much for your reply !

I could not agree more : therapy is a place of self-growth and self-improvement and in order to do that, we need to take an honest look at ourselves ! 

However, the therapist's assessment need to be accurate ! If you asked my friends, my family or if you looked at my past, you would see that if anything, I tend to be overly cautious and I have no trouble spotting red-flags. I get the ick if the guy exhibit some traits that remind me of my ex or of my abusive mother. 

If I am honest with myself though, I think that sometimes I want to protect myself so badly that I automatically think about the worst-case-scenario ! Fortunately, it does not happen too often and I am able to recognize when my anxiety is distorting my thoughts. 

But in this case, this guy does not seem so bad ?

2 hours ago, Jaunty said:

please don't approach therapy as a situation meant to make you feel good in the moment.  Often it's not feeling good at all while we face tough realities about how we have been going about things.

I know 🙂 

 

2 hours ago, Jaunty said:

He's shown you that he is not really interested in being a platonic "friend" so just stop hanging around with him and texting him every day.

My therapist advised me to "go with the flow", to take it one day at a time and to focus on my feelings on the current moment. She said that I needed to stop analyzing everything because it could be counterproductive, especially when it comes to friendship/dating. 

And if pay attention to my feelings, I realize that I really enjoy our daily conversation. I miss him when he's away for the week-end and I look forward to seeing him again. 

Of course, I have to take the fact that he may wants more than friendship into account ! 

But now that I am calm and relaxed, I feel like this is nothing a good, adult, conversation can't solve ? 🤔

I could tell him :

"Hey, I really enjoy our times together and I would love to get to know you more ! 

However, I am not sure I am comfortable with the touching (should I say yet ?) and I need a bit more time to assess my feelings/to know where we are going. 

What do you think ?"

This is the simple truth. 

 

2 hours ago, Jaunty said:

You barely know him and have had minimal contact with him ... he does not warrant such a prominent place in your psyche.

I don't know. I am not sure it works like that ? 

One of my close friend met her boyfriend 3 months ago and they were long-distance so they only saw each other once a week. Even though she didn't know him well, he clearly held a prominent place in her psyche. I am not sure that's necessarily bad ? 

As long as you have no trouble detaching yourself (I know I don't). 

2 hours ago, Jaunty said:

It's true that he's crossing your boundaries but to be fair, he probably thinks he has a chance since your actions don't really align with your words.

It's the thing that bothers me the most, to be honest. 

Would it be safe to enter a relationship with a guy like this ? We're supposed to bake a cake at his place next week. Is it risky ? (oops, it's my anxiety again)

I think that even if I end up falling for him, I will always remember that he tried to push my boundaries in the beginning. 

But like I said above, having a talk with him will clear things up and his reaction will be decisive.

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

could tell him :

"Hey, I really enjoy our times together and I would love to get to know you more ! 

However, I am not sure I am comfortable with the touching (should I say yet ?) and I need a bit more time to assess my feelings/to know where we are going. 

What do you think ?"

I'd be far more basic. "I really like hanging out with you! How about I let you know from now on as far as the touchy feely stuff -ok? I know you mean well and (not but, and) it's a bit much for me for now -thanks for understanding!"

I'd skip the at home couply baking stuff for now.

[Jaunty]

I think you need to decide by yourself (or with your therapist - NOT with the guy when he is putting the moves on you) whether you would like to date him or not.   And proceed accordingly.

[ShySoul]

On 9/27/2024 at 6:53 AM, Shycarrot said:

My therapist advised me to "go with the flow", to take it one day at a time and to focus on my feelings on the current moment. She said that I needed to stop analyzing everything because it could be counterproductive, especially when it comes to friendship/dating. 

And if pay attention to my feelings, I realize that I really enjoy our daily conversation. I miss him when he's away for the week-end and I look forward to seeing him again. 

I'm with the therapist on this one. That's actually not something I'm used to saying, so it must be a sign. Of what I'm not sure. 😄 

You can try to spot all the flags, read into every act. You can look at it from every angle. And you should be careful and cautious about some things. But the heart is going to feel what it feels. And when you start to have those feelings, all the logic and thinking it out doesn't usually hold up to the weight of those feelings. 

I've fought my feelings. I tried to not like someone, or slow it down. But there is always a point where you can't fight it and you have to face that you've fallen. You might not be there yet, but it looks to be headed in that direction. Don't think or fight. Feel it. Be honest with yourself. Take things for where they are right now and enjoy it. And if it continues to grow, you'll know when you hit the point of no return. No need to say anything, just keep spending time together and see what develops.

On 9/26/2024 at 9:17 AM, Shycarrot said:

My anxiety tells me that he's actually a misogynist who only views me as a property that he wants to "conquer"

I don't think it's fair to say he is a misogynist yet. He does seem very protective, but that might not be a sign of viewing you as property. He could be a little insecure so feels jealous of others noticing you and think he needs to get closer to make sure you stay by him. He also may have just been concerned about your safety and felt the need to let you know he would do something for you if you ever felt uncomfortable. I wouldn't beat anyone up and don't think a woman is property, but if anyone tried to hurt a woman I cared about I would get very upset by it.

Keep all these things in mind and set boundaries for what you will and will not accept. If he ever crosses a line or does something that goes too far, don't hesitate to stop him. But don't allow the thought of what could go wrong ruin what is going right at this time. Allow yourself a chance to feel something in the present, if that is what you are feeling. 

Hope you can sort out your feelings and have something nice.

[SophiaG]

On 9/26/2024 at 12:35 PM, Batya33 said:

You are an adult- he doesn't need to ask your permission to be touchy at this point IMO.  If you want that boundary totally fine but you as an adult must communicate it clearly -he sees you enjoy it so why should he stop?

This sounds weird to me - of course people ask for permission before making physical moves even in a dating context. And OP isn't even dating this guy. Putting his hand on her thigh, touching her hair, etc. all seem inappropriately intimate for a friend (or not even a friend).

[SophiaG]

On 9/27/2024 at 5:58 AM, Shycarrot said:

For context, I didn't have a good relationship with my last therapist and she kind of exacerbated my problems, implying that something was fundamentally wrong with me because I was attracted to abusive men on a subconscious level.

She added the hurtful "you don't know how to spot red-flags" and even though I disagree, this has made me difficult to completely trust myself now.

I have been seeing a new therapist for 2 months now, she's way more kind and helpful, but my former therapist's words still linger. 

Sorry to hear that! I don't know your therapists, but some therapists can be sharp to the point it may sting but they could also be right. I have mixed relationships with the therapists I've seen and one of them told me about her own therapist, who "calls her out on her bs" which can be perceived as harsh but had been very helpful to her. If you have had multiple relationships with abusive men, perhaps you do need to be more careful with spotting red flags.

With this guy, given that you've told him you only see him as a friend, the touchy thing would be definitely a red flag for me. Some other posters may disagree but consent is no longer implied or assumed, again, even in a dating scenario. And you are not even dating.

As for his comment of "beat those guys up".. I mean, he could be (probably is) just bluffing, but it feels a bit cringe to me if not worse. I think by misogynist you mean the old fashioned traditional male maybe a bit of a macho type? That would explain him not respecting your boundary/consent and automatically assuming the protector role...

If you are talking/texting with him all the time it's natural he's on your mind everyday. I wouldn't think that's an indicator that you are romantically attracted. Do you feel the urge to touch him, or kiss him? Can you imagine being intimate with him? If the thought of kissing him doesn't excite you, or worse if it repulses you, you are definitely not attracted.

[ShySoul]

On 9/27/2024 at 6:53 AM, Shycarrot said:

"Hey, I really enjoy our times together and I would love to get to know you more ! 

However, I am not sure I am comfortable with the touching (should I say yet ?) and I need a bit more time to assess my feelings/to know where we are going. 

What do you think ?"

This is the simple truth. 

Simple truth is the easiest and best course of action. There is nothing in there that a reasonable person should argue with. You are indicating some interest and possibity of more, while setting a limit. If he doesn't respect the limit, he isn't respecting you and you'll know not to go further. If he does really care, he'll respect you and not try to push things further then you are okay with.

On 9/27/2024 at 6:53 AM, Shycarrot said:

One of my close friend met her boyfriend 3 months ago and they were long-distance so they only saw each other once a week. Even though she didn't know him well, he clearly held a prominent place in her psyche. I am not sure that's necessarily bad ? 

As long as you have no trouble detaching yourself (I know I don't). 

It's not bad. The feelings we have for someone can grow at any pace, not dependent on time or proximity. I've been extremely close to people I had seen in person once a month or even not at all. As long as you are honest with your feelings and detach yourself as you said, you're okay. The truth is, you are going to feel what you feel. It's being able to decide the best course of action for you as an individual that makes the difference.

On 9/27/2024 at 6:53 AM, Shycarrot said:

Would it be safe to enter a relationship with a guy like this ? We're supposed to bake a cake at his place next week. Is it risky ? (oops, it's my anxiety again)

There is always risk. Even when someone can seem perfect, there is still a risk and they can change. 

You don't have to enter into a relationship or make a choice now. Wait and just take your time. If you feel safe going to his place, go. If you don't, then don't go. If he tries to pull something, put a stop to it and leave. It could be risk. Or it could be a really fun time. There's no way to know unless you do it. Have fun being in the moment. Should it stop being fun, recognize it and don't hesitate to remove yourself.

[Tinydance]

Hey Shy Carrot! I remember you saying in some of your old posts that you're kind of avoidant about relationships. And you did say you don't have much dating experience. From everything you wrote about this guy, I think you are into him. If a guy touched my waist or my hair and I wasn't into him, I'd be repulsed, not aroused lol Or at least I'd feel kind of uncomfortable. You don't feel uncomfortable  - you seem to like it.

And you wouldn't be thinking of him a lot and be excited to see him if you weren't into him. Thinking about someone all the time is literally a sign you're crushing on him. You seem to mostly like him rather than not. Why don't you just go on some more dates with him and see how it goes? 

[Batya33]

8 hours ago, SophiaG said:

This sounds weird to me - of course people ask for permission before making physical moves even in a dating context. And OP isn't even dating this guy. Putting his hand on her thigh, touching her hair, etc. all seem inappropriately intimate for a friend (or not even a friend).

Yes but she didn't stop him and this touching is not like kissing or touching sexually -that I would see more asking can I kiss  you or touch her in a sexual way -her private parts.  In general yes it is inappropriate.  So the first time he did this if it was unwelcomed her options were to speak up and/or choose to stop interacting. 

When I went on dates I wasn't asked for permission before he took my hand or touched a non-private part.  I apparently -I do not remember! - put my hand on my future husband's arm while talking to him at a work event -we were coworkers who had met twice at events before and had conversations. I touched his arm lightly kind of while making a point in the conversation.  He said that's helped him get up the courage to ask me to lunch a few days later.  I respect that if you dated you would want the person to ask permission in that context. I'm not saying it's not done I've just never heard of it.

When a friend of mine who was a coworker came behind my desk, put his hands on my shoulders, leaned his body over me and kissed my cheek all without permission to me that was incredibly inappropriate especially because it was at work.  And he was married (I was not, was dating someone).

I think once she was ok with his touching then he could assume she was ok the next time.  IMHO. I think friends do touch each other like that. My women friends and I hug each other hello and goodbye.  I hug my male friend hello and goodbye when he comes to town.  Sexual touching or touching private part or kissing etc yes I can see that. I think she was trying to figure out if she was attracted to him so in part she welcomed the touching. She enjoyed it and he could sense that I bet.  JMO

[Batya33]

52 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Hey Shy Carrot! I remember you saying in some of your old posts that you're kind of avoidant about relationships. And you did say you don't have much dating experience. From everything you wrote about this guy, I think you are into him. If a guy touched my waist or my hair and I wasn't into him, I'd be repulsed, not aroused lol Or at least I'd feel kind of uncomfortable. You don't feel uncomfortable  - you seem to like it.

And you wouldn't be thinking of him a lot and be excited to see him if you weren't into him. Thinking about someone all the time is literally a sign you're crushing on him. You seem to mostly like him rather than not. Why don't you just go on some more dates with him and see how it goes? 

I would agree totally if she also wasn't writing about how she's thinking he might be a misogynist.  I wouldn't want to invest time in dating someone who was putting me to that sort of extreme test. So if she makes peace within herself and assumes he is a well intentioned generally good person she'd like to get to know that's fine IMO.

[Kwothe28]

On 9/27/2024 at 11:58 AM, Shycarrot said:

She added the hurtful "you don't know how to spot red-flags" and even though I disagree, this has made me difficult to completely trust myself now.

 

You are literally allowing this new guy to touch you while calling him misogynist. Maybe you dont have troubles noticing red flags but you sure are having troubles of not being attracted to it.

If you dont like how he touches you, you can tell him and/or just remove his hand where he touches. Its not a rocket science and he doesnt read your thoughts to know. For all he knows, you like it because you are OK with him doing it. Furthermore if you dont like somebody behavior to the point you are calling them misogynist, maybe dont hang around them.

[Tinydance]

On 9/27/2024 at 12:46 PM, LootieTootie said:

I do think you are overthinking here - your feelings are all over the place. I don't know if you have concrete examples of him being a misogynist, but the ones you wrote don't sound like it would fit the definition. Don't take this the wrong way, but are you sure you are even ready to date or put yourself out there to date? I ask this because when I read your posts, you don't seem sure of yourself to be direct/open, and you also have some deep-seeded emotional issues about men.

However, I also think you are in the right direction about setting boundaries with him and see what he says and do.

 

I'm also not seeing any particular signs that he's a misogynist. The way I'm reading the situation is this guy likes you and you have been on a date before. He was interested but you said let's just be friends.

To be honest I think you're giving him mixed messages because you text him every single day. And when he touches you, you don't say or do anything. But you continue to hang out with him and message him every day. So what he's probably thinking is you like him too but you're shy. I could be wrong but that's the way I'm reading this situation too.

I think you like him but you seem to be trying to talk yourself out of it. What I don't get is why? I mean, yes you don't know him that well yet but that's why you date someone. To get to know them. And what you listed about him was mostly good so I don't see why you seem to be trying to find something bad.

I understand he's touching you but you said it's like touching your hair or waist. But it's a dance class so do you dance with him and other guys? Like, do the guys put their hand on the woman's waist? If I'm on a date with a guy I don't really find it creepy if they touch my arm or put their arm on my back or something. If I like them I'd be fine with it because the idea is to start being affectionate. Like, I'd probably eventually kiss them so these gestures is a lead up to that. What I'd find inappropriate is if the guy began to grab my breasts or "down there" area. 

Having said that, if your boundaries are that you don't want to be touched full stop, that's totally fine. You just need to tell him that. You did actually write: "I like it enough that I don't say anything." I think you probably like it too and that's why you don't say anything.

It seems to me you like him but you're starting to get cold feet and want to act avoidant. So you're coming up with reasons why this guy is a misogynist or there's some red flags. What are the red flags? If you're referring that he wanted to beat the guy up then yeah maybe that's not the best. But he may have been joking.

[yogacat]

On 9/26/2024 at 9:17 AM, Shycarrot said:

The thing is, I am noticing that he's almost always in my thoughts, I am very excited to see him, the conversational chemistry is amazing and I am slowly starting to find things I like about his appearance (his smile etc ...). 

It's pretty clear from his body language (more on that later) that he's attracted to me, but I certainly don't want to jump right in. Plus, there are certain things that set me back...

I think you're fine to want him to ask for consent if he consistently fails to read body language and touches you. Keep in mind that you might be reading too much *into* his body language as well, so try to find a balance in that.

That doesn't mean he is a misogynist or just sees you as property that he wants to conquer lol - beware of labeling. That's a red flag, not a genuine concern in this stage!

If anything, he's trying to move this from the friends zone that you have placed him in...

I mean, most guys get obnoxious when a guy bothers their love interest to some point and most girls also get obnoxious with it. Just let him know that sometimes it's not needed to be so protective as that makes YOU feel safe and it would be better if it stayed like that. 

The comment he made about the other guy sounds like it was said tongue-in-cheek, but that obviously depends on tone. 

I don't want you to ignore not having developed your red flag radar, but I'm not seeing any huge immediate issues here. 

That said, what is comfortable for one person, will be different from the next. You're still kind of in that "figuring it out" gray zone.

You're attracted to him from what I can see. You enjoy when he touches you. When you don't you don't let him know. You're in a grey zone. It's up to you to own that. 

A red flag being HE is not listening, being manipulative, making black-humor comments, being distant, not following through, continuously making inappropriate comments, making comparisons, pressuring - not respecting your "no" or self mockery.

Lots of other red flags that I'm sure others here can list for ya.

[Jaunty]

4 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

You are literally allowing this new guy to touch you while calling him misogynist. 

Yep, this is really significant.  

You either are accepting enthusiastically all this touching,  OR you are going to put a stop to it.   Pick one.   You are not in a place where it's good "self care" for you to let it go on passively while you are telling him you are NOT INTERESTED IN ANYTHING BUT FRIENDSHIP, telling us that you think he might be a misogynist,  and you do not feel attracted to him.

You are allowing yourself to be taken down a path that you have not chosen.

If you want to choose it,  DO THAT.

If you don't want to, then stop.

[ShySoul]

On 9/26/2024 at 9:17 AM, Shycarrot said:

My anxiety tells me that he's actually a misogynist who only views me as a property that he wants to "conquer".

Think there is a difference here that's not being picked up on. She is not saying he is a misogynist. Her anxiety is saying that. 

When we are unsure or concerned about something, we tend to let our imaginations run wild. We exaggerate things and jump to worse case scenarios. Someone prone to being anxious or overthinking, as Shycarrot seems to be, is particularly affected by this. So a behavior that she rightfully is concerned about, taking liberties with touching her, gets blown up into something even more troubling. It's making mountains out of molehills and people do it all the time.  It's not actually calling him a misogynist or indicating she really feels that way. And it's not a sign of anything wrong with her or something bad she is doing.

@Shycarrot I think it's simple. You are torn on your feelings. Part of you does like him. Part of you enjoys being with him and enjoys his touch. You indicated it's been awhile since you had that touch, that you miss it. So you've let yourself enjoy it as feelings have started to develop. But at the same time you are scared. You aren't sure if you want more or are ready for it. So you are also searching for reasons not to be with him. Fear of going further is putting all kinds of thoughts in your head, and taking little things you aren't happy with and turning them into huge red flags. 

It's not that you are giving mixed signals. It's not such an easy answer as say don't touch me. It's really about you figuring out just what you want and are okay with. Right now, you don't seem to know. You are being torn in both directions. So neither way is complete. You need to decide if you do want to take the chance for more. If you do, pursue it. If not, then make clear touching is off limits.

Personally, I think you do have feelings but are scared by them. That's totally understandable. I get scared by them too and have tried to deny it or convince myself of reasons it can't work. But if you are feeling something, there is probably a reason and that reason is worth exploring.

[Batya33]

She is choosing to react to her anxiety by dwelling on her notions of misogyny. That is her. I used to get anxious in the beginning stages when I really liked a guy -made up stories in my head overthinking about what I did "wrong" and why hadn't he called yet and what if this what if that.  But I chose to react by using tools to get recentered -I had an arsenal lol.  That way my new guy wasn't burdened with that anxious side of me. It's like someone getting anxious "oh he didn't "like" my FB post so that means he doesn't like me and won't ever want to see me again" and then you're off to the races -unless you choose to react differently.  She is choosing to react to these anxious feelings by -dwelling on them and choosing to analyze whether his touching her = misogyny.  Her reaction is a problem and it makes her anxiety far more of a part of who she is.  

[rainbowsandroses]

On 9/8/2024 at 10:35 AM, Shycarrot said:

He's absolutely not my type. I don't find him handsome nor cute. And when he does not touch me, I have no desire to be close to him nor to look at him

Also, I am very embarrassed to admit this, but sometimes I even feel aroused when he touches my waist (one of my erogenous zones) and for a few seconds, I want to cuddle with him etc ...

Just catching up and yes this^^ is quite confusing, for you and I would imagine for him too!

I've read the entire thread and now it appears you also miss him, you think about him and look forward to seeing him, all of these things point to your crushing on him in some form or fashion imo. 

Question is why cannot you admit this to yourself, why your confusion?

Just my take @Shycarrotbut do you think one reason might be because he is not your physical type?

You admit in first quote above and other posts that you do not find him handsome nor cute and he's not your physical type. 

Could it be possible that you have always associated the two together? And as such, you have it ingrained in your mind that you cannot possibly be "attracted to" a man whom you don't find physically attractive?  Or who is not your typical physical type? 

Of course being "attracted to" a man (or anyone) entails sooo much more than simply finding them cute or handsome or being your physical type.

You can be emotionally attracted, mentally attracted, spiritually attracted and once you (or anyone) can get over your physical bias, you might even begin seeing him as more physically attractive as well!

This has happened to me, which is why I mentioned it as a possibility and something to consider? 

Until I acknowledged to myself it was a physical bias, I was quite confused too!