The herpes stigma

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

I get that but quite frankly, she has nothing to "repent" to him for nor needs his forgiveness on.

^^Lol, I agree!.

I was simply responding to your post re: the Christian belief of "forgiving and forgetting" .... "sins."

You yourself used those words yoga, and I responded in kind.  

As far as I'm concerned, there was no "sin" committed nor does she need to be "forgiven."

Again, I was responding to your post using that language and it was intended to be in the general sense.

That said OP cannot shake it emotionally and shouldn't feel pressured to do so whether that pressure comes from within or societal pressures.

Good luck whatever you decide OP. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

OP if it helps.  Over 10 years ago my friend's daughter faced a similar situation.  She had a wild past but had been brought up very very religious.  She had contracted an STD.  In her mid 20s she was introduced to a man around her age brought up within the same strict religion.  He had no past. She liked him very much as they began dating and in her world you got engaged fairly quickly/no sex before marriage.  She didn't know what to do -whether to tell him - that she had a past AND an STD.  She did tell him.  He apparently accepted that and they've been married a long time and are happy and have a family. I don't know him really so I don't know how he accepted it -it must have been -shocking - but all I know is they are happily married and love their family.  I'm personally glad he moved past it -so much joy resulted.

Good luck with whatever you decide OP.

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Thank you for all your replies. I have lots to say here in response but not much time at the moment. Will respond soon. 

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I do realize this is a mystery to some of you who are not in the same way, but OP is, as far as I know, a Christian man of faith. To him, who doesnt even want to have sex until marriage, finding out his SO was somebody who had it and that she contracted an STD, is "life shattering" experience. To caricature a bit it would be like you going to McDonalds and ordering a BigMac. And getting McChicken with McSalmonela. Nothing to do with his confidence but with his standards that are shattered in a way with new revelation. He simply got more than he expected.

Thanks @Kwothe28, it’s good to have a Christian perspective for once on here as I think that’s where many can’t quite connect with where I’m coming from.

Exactly!  I’m not saying I’m expecting her to be a virgin or someone with very little experience, especially these days and also with age, this is highly unlikely.  And I think I said in my OP, I was accepting of her past and ready to deal with whatever her sexual past was…well that is apart from this STD.  There was just no way I thought this can happen again.  9 years ago like I said, I met another girl who had the same virus and we dated for a few months and ended up breaking off for different reasons. But back then, I accepted it so I know I can do this again, another reason why I don’t want to walk away.  I went through a very similar experience with her. I’m in a different place now and less judgemental but as you can tell I am still very much conflicted.

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OP, how are the other aspects of relationship? STD and past aside, is she caring to you? How long have you been together? Do you have a good conversation? Do your goals for future align, for example do you both want(or maybe dont want) kids of your own? Yes, this is not really what you expected but there are a lot of other stuff you should pay attention to if you want to determine if this is it or not.

Yes well this is why I haven’t walked away yet because there are enough of green flags here.  Starting with the physical attraction. For me to find a woman who I am physically attracted to and that feels the same way about me (obviously has to be mutual) has been a mission and very rarely happens. Last time was perhaps 3 years ago and the time before that was that girl above 9 years ago and perhaps one or two in between but yes, it’s hard to find.  Secondly, there is a real spark there, a deep connection where we feel comfortable with each other and enjoy the time we spend together.  Again not easy to find.  We do want children, yes, and our own. 

Now we have only been dating for what 3 months now, so all things considered it’s still early days you could say.  And you know after all this, we might come to a point where actually we break up for other reasons (like I did with the girl above).  3 months really isn’t that long I realise, so in time to come we might find that we’re not that suited to each other afterall. Hard to say at this point but so far, mostly good I would say. 

That is until the reveal, this was what made me feel on a high somewhat throughout the last two months.  No question, her condition has changed how I feel and more about that later in another response. 

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23 hours ago, SophiaG said:

Tricky situation. To each their own but, if I were her, knowing how you struggle to accept her as is and her past, I would not want to continue the relationship. Not that your feelings are wrong or anything, but please continue to be transparent with her as you process it and give her the chance to opt out too.

Yes this is very fair and although I don’t want to make a habit of doing this every time we meet, because that would surely essentially force her hand to break up, I realise it is important to be honest.  That’s why I brought it up with her on the weekend and was as honest as I could be about how I’m feeling and how I’m processing the situation. I think the bottom line is that she’s worried about me turning around later down the line and walking away, if I cannot overcome this…and that’s why I fear too.  I need to have peace with this and be able to separate the condition from the person she is now, the person that I see many good qualities.  She’s the same person as she was before she revealed. 

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What you wrote here seems to indicate you weren’t that excited about her to begin with – or you meant you didn’t want to get your hopes up?

No, it’s definitely the latter.  I didn’t want to get my hopes up. It seems every time I have done in the past, it’s ended in disappointment.  I just experiencing setbacks.  That’s why this girl comes by and I’m thinking wow she’s really attractive, super feminine, sweet etc. all the things essentially I’m looking for and…she’s into me!  So I was excited and sure I did fantasise scenarios of us being together long term and I couldn’t find many flaws in truth.  And, so again you can understand how my world got shattered. 

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23 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

^^Agree with the "forgiven" part but not necessarily the "forgotten" part. 

And our OP may very well have "forgiven" her, he hasn't said. 

I am assuming based on what he's posted that he has.  

The question IS (imo) does his personal standard, internal moral code and religious beliefs allow for him to emotionally move past the "sin"? 

And forget?   Such that it bears no significance as if it never happened?  Which is what it's gonna take if they proceed forward together.  Imo.

Born again Christian or not, her past is part of who she is.  He can't erase that, it's there. 

I experienced a similar situation with "Elevator Guy" (if anyone recalls) and discovering three months in he had been an 'abuser' before seeking treatment.

He had 100% transformed himself and had turned that negative into a positive by devoting his time and energy to counseling other abusers. 

While I admired him for that and held no ill will, try as I might I could not emotionally move past it and ended our relationship.

To me, while the circumstances are different, this situation is essentially the same thing.

Yes forgiving and forgetting… I mean yes, she is  a changed person and the person she was back then is not who she is now and that’s why it’s easy to forgive but like yogacat said that is between herself and God. Nothing to do with me as this was all before she met me.  But that in itself is also what makes it difficult because there’s a part of me that can’t almost get my head around it, almost like I can’t accept the fact she has this STD.  I’ve asked her what she was like back then and she said very different and even went as far as saying we would not have even spoken to each other and got on like we do now.  So these are like two completely different people almost. 

Forgetting however is the challenge.  The STD unfortunately is a constant reminder of her past as it’s forever.  One thing if it was a temporary one that was treated and done with but this not only has the emotional consequences but the ongoing  physical ones too. That’s what I have to deal with somehow if I want to continue. 

I think your story is quite similar in that elevator guy had such a past but then complete redemption.  I mean, did you feel that that side of him could someday come out again?  Is that why you didn’t want to continue?

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20 hours ago, yogacat said:

I get that but quite frankly, she has nothing to "repent" to him for nor needs his forgiveness on. She had consensual sexual intercourse with other men BEFORE THEY MET. I am not sure what he views as promiscuous. Is it 1, 2, 3, 10 people? Casual hookups, etc.?

Still, her having sex outside the rules of the church is between her God and her.

Yes, the issue is OP can't erase that and he's struggling. I feel for him, I really do.

Someone being an abuser versus someone having consensual sex without harming another purposefully are a bit different. What is important is that you pulled the plug when you realized you couldn't go forward in a relationship with him.

So OP, you're debating this in your head, seem engaged in this self talk about all of it which is totally fine and part of this process.

If you're waiting for a point in your head where this woman's past stops being an issue, IT MAY VERY WELL, WON'T. You will torture yourself if you continue on. And your girlfriend deserves better than a full life with someone for whom her partner views her as "dirty" or damaged. Your views of her past are your view. Doesn't mean she has to accept them to spare another person's feelings.

That's like getting mad at your partner for having feelings for other people before you guys met. 😕

You can only change how you deal with it and if you can't then you have to make that decision. This could also be an opportunity to meet someone new who perhaps more aligns with your version of "morals."

I don't think you should have to "settle". There are plenty of girls out there who do not have a past similar to your girlfriends'.

I had a gf when I was 25/26 and we were both virgins at the time - that’s a different story and I still wonder whether this was the one that got away but I just wasn’t into her in the end plus I felt I was too young to commit to a marriage at that age.  But since that time, the women I have dated seriously have not been virgins so they have all had a past of some kind.  As I said when I was younger I would reject someone if she had simply given oral sex to a guy.  I realise how judgemental I was back then and also very naïve.  I have learnt from that but this test, now, is even for my standards really pushing the boundaries.  It’s one thing being a technical virgin and trying to deal with a woman who has say slept with multiple people but with the added STD factor, it does make the challenge very stressful.

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19 hours ago, Batya33 said:

OP if it helps.  Over 10 years ago my friend's daughter faced a similar situation.  She had a wild past but had been brought up very very religious.  She had contracted an STD.  In her mid 20s she was introduced to a man around her age brought up within the same strict religion.  He had no past. She liked him very much as they began dating and in her world you got engaged fairly quickly/no sex before marriage.  She didn't know what to do -whether to tell him - that she had a past AND an STD.  She did tell him.  He apparently accepted that and they've been married a long time and are happy and have a family. I don't know him really so I don't know how he accepted it -it must have been -shocking - but all I know is they are happily married and love their family.  I'm personally glad he moved past it -so much joy resulted.

Good luck with whatever you decide OP.

Well this is definitely helps because this is virtually the identical situation to mine, is it not!  Only difference is that were much younger it seems that myself and this girl. I would have loved to spoken with him as I’m sure he would be able to relate to these feelings.  Even so, that was him and just because he could do it, doesn’t mean I can but at least it shows that are people who can overcome this hurdle. 

Well the question you had regarding me sexual history is relevant because at almost 41 now, I would say I am still a virgin technically speaking at least, despite having had multiple opportunities over the years with the few relationships I've had and then one off "hook ups" with different women where I received only oral, which I really regret even going that far because it was wrong. Point is I have done sexual stuff then but NEVER had full penis in vagina intercourse.

I actually looked back at my entire sexual history and counted a total of at least 12 different women that I've done sexual stuff with, either when I was in a relationship with them or random encounters I've had.

I wanted to save myself for marriage and do what's right before God but I guess the wife and the marriage never happened.  I still believe sex is for marriage and that's something I can't compromise over now, especially after having waited all this time.

So you see now how this makes things more complicated with this current situation. Rather ironic right. First having proper sex is stressful enough for most people but with this added factor...?

I often do think what my life would have been like if I had slept with multiple people too and taken advantage of those opportunities I had (like I said earlier).  Maybe I’d be more confident around women and as a result attract a completely different type of woman.  Maybe this entire situation would be easier to deal with, surely it would…

And tell me if I’m talking nonsense here, but I have wondered now because this has happened a second time now, whether there is something about me that attracts certain types of woman.  Of course this is the science of attraction but do you really attract a certain type. 

Again I go back to what I said earlier about her being this attractive and having so many good qualities and being interested in me…and she was keen. Not desperate at all but definitely keen. Even with the distance (albeit not a huge distance).  I did find this surprising but only because I’m not used to it. I’m not used to dating a woman this attractive, who is into me like this. I don’t usually get matched with people like her on the dating apps.  But now it makes sense I guess doesn’t it… The truth is that people with a STD do and will find it harder to find partners because of the stigma and for the simple reason that people simply don’t want to catch a STD (although from what I understand she has had quite a few partners since her diagnosis and they haven’t left because of that and she has turned down plenty of other people as well).  So here I was getting all excited about a really attractive woman who wants to be with me and physically wants me, only for this herpes to make me think, was her liking me even genuine? In other words, what I’m really trying to say is, if she didn’t have it, would she still like me??  I guess, will never know.

[yogacat]

15 minutes ago, ignite said:

I actually looked back at my entire sexual history and counted a total of at least 12 different women that I've done sexual stuff with, either when I was in a relationship with them or random encounters I've had.

So you can have a sexual past but she can't? What am I missing?

[SophiaG]

OP I'm curious, why is oral sex considered better than PIV sex? One could certainly get a STD from oral sex (and arguably easier since fewer people use protection for oral). As for her by all means she could have only had sex once and unfortunately contracted herpes

5 minutes ago, ignite said:

a total of at least 12 different women that I've done sexual stuff with

That actually sounds like a quite high number for someone with your belief - if her "body count" is actually lower than yours and she was just unlucky one of them didn't disclose about herpes, would you feel any differently about the situation?

 

32 minutes ago, ignite said:

But now it makes sense I guess doesn’t it… The truth is that people with a STD do and will find it harder to find partners

That's a destructive line of thinking. Herpes isn't that bad as an STD. My doctor doesn't even recommend it when I do my annual screening since so many people have HSV-1 and it's not considered a big deal.

[yogacat]

No. I'm serious, your past is no different then hers. And everything you wrote about her being attractive and dating you ties to my original thought that this is a confidence issue.

Which, sometime when we have difficulties with someone's past, and ours isn't squeaky clean either, that's what it boils down to.

I would definitely say the issue is yours. Because you seem ashamed and embarrassed that she did "more than you" in regards to sexual activities with other people. 

And if you leave her because of this, I'd say you're a hypocrite and being unfair.

But that's just me.

[SophiaG]

9 minutes ago, yogacat said:

And if you leave her because of this, I'd say you're a hypocrite and being unfair.

I agree this is an OP issue but would argue that, if he can't happily accept this, it's actually fair and probably best for both parties that he leaves her over it. 

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, ignite said:

think your story is quite similar in that elevator guy had such a past but then complete redemption.  I mean, did you feel that that side of him could someday come out again?  Is that why you didn’t want to continue?

No that would have been too logical. 

My response was 100% emotional and something I had no control over. 

I knew he had 100% transformed himself but like you the image I had of him was shaken/destroyed.

And envisioning him in such situations where he had lost self control to the point he became physically violent was something I could not move past, emotionally.

I tried believe me! 

I wasn't able to accept it and I actually lost a big part of my attraction to him because of it.  

So had to end it. 

[yogacat]

20 minutes ago, SophiaG said:

I agree this is an OP issue but would argue that, if he can't happily accept this, it's actually fair and probably best for both parties that he leaves her over it. 

That or eventually she says to hell with this. OP, you might want to look into retroacive jealousy. It's a real thing.

[rainbowsandroses]

46 minutes ago, SophiaG said:

I agree this is an OP issue but would argue that, if he can't happily accept this, it's actually fair and probably best for both parties that he leaves her over it. 

I agree with this^^.

It does no good IMO to negatively judge him or deem him a hypocrite, it's not gonna change how he feels emotionally.

There IS a double standard about this unfortunately, I've seen it, read about it, talked to men about it. 

Due to their culture, upbringing, religious beliefs, whatever they believe it's OK for them to have had many sexual experiences but not OK for the woman they envision marrying and being the mother to their children.

They have a preconceived idea of what "feminine" is and means (pure) just like in another thread today, a man posted about his girlfriend belittling him (disguised as jokes) because he wasn't "masculine."

They may even know logically that mindset is unfair but how does one change how they feel internally, emotionally?  

Frankly I don't think it can be done at 41 years of age or it will take a very long time. 

JMO.

 

[yogacat]

27 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I agree with this^^.

It does no good IMO to negatively judge him or deem him a hypocrite, it's not gonna change how he feels emotionally.

But that is exactly what he is doing to his girlfriend, negatively judging her and deeming her a sinner (For lack of a better word). 

That does no good, IMO. He can either accept her completely or move on. 

It's about OP questioning his and his gf's values.  

When he himself has not lived a pure "life," it does seem like hypocrisy to be so judgmental and be second guessing the type of partner she is over something she cannot change and that he himself engaged in as well.

It's just, he didn't contract the "herpes." And she did.
 

[rainbowsandroses]

11 minutes ago, yogacat said:

That does no good, IMO. He can either accept her completely or move on. 

^^Agree yoga, I think most of us are in agreement about that. 

Again I don't see the relevance of criticizing him, deeming him a hypocrite, whatever. 

So what if he is?  He himself may even know he is!! 

How does this change anything?  

He feels how he feels.

And like you, SophiaG, myself and others have said, the best thing for both is simply move on..

 

 

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3 hours ago, yogacat said:

So you can have a sexual past but she can't? What am I missing?

I didn't say this at all, infact I thought I made it very clear in my earlier messages that I'm not expecting her to have NOT had a past or for her to be a virgin...

My comment earlier few hours ago - "Exactly!  I’m not saying I’m expecting her to be a virgin or someone with very little experience, especially these days and also with age, this is highly unlikely.  And I think I said in my OP, I was accepting of her past and ready to deal with whatever her sexual past was…"

And my comment in an earlier thread about this as well - "Exactly right God sees the heart of a person in who they are now so from that standpoint, I am willing to accept whatever her past was.  It's just the physical consequence is something in this case because it's a permanent condition that has an impact for a future relationship with someone."

So not for a moment am I comparing her past to mine or "body counts."  I will say that I have been far worse because I messed up since I was a Christian and I deeply regret this.  Even if I never had actual penetrative piv intercoruse, which is the accepted definition of sex that still doesn't excuse my own sexual behaviours and activity.  As I said in my OP and my earlier comment this evening, if this was a case of her just having a sexual past, then I wouldn't even be writing here. Basically, there would not be an issue at all because I couldn't hold her past against her when I have one myself. 

The whole point of the thread is not about that, it's about how to deal with the herpes afterall.  

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3 hours ago, SophiaG said:

OP I'm curious, why is oral sex considered better than PIV sex? One could certainly get a STD from oral sex (and arguably easier since fewer people use protection for oral). As for her by all means she could have only had sex once and unfortunately contracted herpes

That's a destructive line of thinking. Herpes isn't that bad as an STD. My doctor doesn't even recommend it when I do my annual screening since so many people have HSV-1 and it's not considered a big deal.

I guess piv sexual intercourse is what is seen as sex. So that's why technically speaking I am still a virgin because I have not had this.  

Re: the severity of herpes, there are some who will say it is serious and a big deal and highlight the difference between HSV1 and HSV2 as they are not the same thing.  But I agree this is ignorance. Some like to point out the most extreme examples of herpes outbreaks and speak of how damaging it can be when the reality is for most people with it, it is simply an occasional inconvenience. 

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2 hours ago, yogacat said:

No. I'm serious, your past is no different then hers. And everything you wrote about her being attractive and dating you ties to my original thought that this is a confidence issue.

Which, sometime when we have difficulties with someone's past, and ours isn't squeaky clean either, that's what it boils down to.

I would definitely say the issue is yours. Because you seem ashamed and embarrassed that she did "more than you" in regards to sexual activities with other people. 

And if you leave her because of this, I'd say you're a hypocrite and being unfair.

But that's just me.

As I said, if it weren't for this herpes issue, then there would be no issue. I remember before she told me about it, I already told her, "whatever you've done I'll accept, it's ok" alluding to the fact that I was implying I know you must have slept with others, I know you're not a virgin and that's ok."  I just didn't expect the STD part, that's all. 

[yogacat]

20 minutes ago, ignite said:

The whole point of the thread is not about that, it's about how to deal with the herpes afterall.  

But that's not what the majority of your posts have been about. So I can only go by what you've shared.

I haven't really seen it mentioned that you're concerned from a health risk basis, more of that she is not "holy or pure."

[Batya33]

Do you really think she's settling for you because she's been "rejected" because of the herpes diagnosis? My husband is short and as you know many men get "rejected" because they are short but I prefer shorter men and -never occurred to me he was settling  - he loves me -it's clear as day and was over the moon during the honeymoon "stage" and I didn't settle for him because of my big flaw - a deafeningly loud biological clock which he was ok with!

[SophiaG]

3 hours ago, ignite said:

I guess piv sexual intercourse is what is seen as sex. So that's why technically speaking I am still a virgin because I have not had this. 

That's wild, as I assumed oral sex is considered worse than PIV in church as it serves no reproductive purposes... so you could basically have had anal sex and still be considered a virgin? 😲

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6 hours ago, yogacat said:

But that's not what the majority of your posts have been about. So I can only go by what you've shared.

I haven't really seen it mentioned that you're concerned from a health risk basis, more of that she is not "holy or pure."

Fair point but if you look at my OP on this thread, I touch more on just the health aspect. I haven't even mentioned my own situation at that point, until rainbow asks me specifically. 

That said, the "emotional" side of this is still relevant and something to work through. This expectation of this "pure" and "feminine" woman is, I realise is a result of my own hang ups and ingrained perspectives.

Bottom line though is that yes we have both participated in sexual activity and we have both sinned (we all have) but she has slept with people and I haven't. So that's something to work through but my entire point is that I am willing to do this. The extra challenge of being with someone with a STD and discussing that is why I'm here. 

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2 hours ago, SophiaG said:

That's wild, as I assumed oral sex is considered worse than PIV in church as it serves no reproductive purposes... so you could basically have had anal sex and still be considered a virgin? 😲

From a spiritual view, any sexual activity before marriage is seen as sinful. Once again I'm referring to the technical aspect of sex and losing one's virginity and it is universally and traditionally defined as when a penis enters a vagina for the first time. Something I had not done. I understand some will disagree.