The herpes stigma

[ignite]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Yes it was a promising start but after her disclosure re having herpes, admittedly, you did change your feelings.

You became ambivalent, uncertain and yes a bit judgey as well imo; you were uncertain if you could ever move past this!  Many of your posts reflect this uncertainty.  Deeming her "unpure" etc if I recall. 

Which is fine I suppose, they are your feelings to which you're entitled.

In any event, SHE obviously sensed all of this and felt judged imo.  I would have too tbh. 

Once SHE became uncertain and pulled back, you began showering her with gifts etc which was the wrong course of action.

In her eyes (and mine as well not that what I think means a hill of beans) it came off disingenuous.  A way to hold her even though obviously the herpes still bothered you at least on some level. It came off phony which made things worse imo.

Anyway what's done is done and I'm sorry things didn't work out as you hoped.

There is no reason to think this will happen again with your next relationship as long as you remain honest within yourself and her and don't try to force a situation that after her disclosure clearly was not a good fit for YOU.

All the best moving forward.

 

I couldn't help how I reacted at the time, and yes perhaps in retrospect I did come across shocked and judgy which made her feel uneasy from that point on. But I simply wanted time to process it which she acknowledged as well. I do admit though when I went away, I did feel different during that time. But the possibility of her potentially ending things then made me realise I did infact want this because of who she was as a person, the fact that we get on well, there was a strong connection and we shared similar beliefs and values.

That effectively created such a strong urge for me to show her that I do value her and want to be with her. So all the good intentions I had in the last few weeks were genuine, whether it was more texting or sending her chocolates. I did want make things work but I understand to her that may seem disingenuous. 

I just wanted to take time to think it through (the herpes) and the impact it would have. I believe that's a sensible thing to do because we are thinking about marriage when dating. I didn't run away or freak out for those weeks. I prayed and processed it in the way I knew best.  

 

[Batya33]

5 minutes ago, ignite said:

I couldn't help how I reacted at the time, and yes perhaps in retrospect I did come across shocked and judgy which made her feel uneasy from that point on. But I simply wanted time to process it which she acknowledged as well. I do admit though when I went away, I did feel different during that time. But the possibility of her potentially ending things then made me realise I did infact want this because of who she was as a person, the fact that we get on well, there was a strong connection and we shared similar beliefs and values.

That effectively created such a strong urge for me to show her that I do value her and want to be with her. So all the good intentions I had in the last few weeks were genuine, whether it was more texting or sending her chocolates. I did want make things work but I understand to her that may seem disingenuous. 

I just wanted to take time to think it through (the herpes) and the impact it would have. I believe that's a sensible thing to do because we are thinking about marriage when dating. I didn't run away or freak out for those weeks. I prayed and processed it in the way I knew best.  

 

I think it's time to think more before you act.  The sending of gifts is a lovely thought and then you have to think about the recipient and the situation and how best to show the person you want to make amends, you want another chance.  I do this in daily life. I want my teenager to open up to me a bit more, I am in the mood to talk in the early morning -I am a morning person and we walk 1.2 miles to the bus stop now as the sun is rising. But at that moment although I'd be talking out of love, asking questions of him out of love and care and wanting to connect -I know it would be bad timing for him and talking would not be the right approach.  So instead I will walk beside him silently and sometimes point out the colors of the sky. 

And you know what -several times now he's turned to me and said something thoughtful or sweet -or shared on his own.  I let him come to me even though my "urge" was to chat him up, to have him tell me how things are going at school, with his friends, with life.  Urges have to give way to shifting to -what does this person need from me now if anything and if I want to connect more how best can I show that -for this person.  It's --- not all about you, right?

Also just because you suddenly realize you made a mistake or in fact you do want to reconnect with the person - same thing -your sudden realization doesn't mean you get to run to your person and gush all over them unless you're Billy Crystal in When Harry Met Sally at the end.

And one more thing -be very careful about epiphanies that happen because you are suddenly losing the person.  That might be a wake up call but often is not the basis for a solid long  term relatiosnhip.  Had my husband and I attempted to get back together a month after our cancelled wedding -because of my sudden realization -we would have sort of tainted things to the extent that we'd likely have had too much baggage to reconcile almost 8 years later.  He was smart enough to realize I likely was realizing oh now that he's not here for a month and seemingly disconnecting -now I realize I want him. He said 'no, it would be romantic for a short while then we'd have the same issues."

Again I'm sorry you're disappointed and I really do think this will be a good learning experience and one for personal introspection and growth.  

 

[Morello]

3 hours ago, ignite said:

My confidence is shatteted now because once again, a dating experience that started so promisingly, someone who I thought was into me, suddenly changed her feelings and not feel the same despite me doing nothing wrong and that hurts. Yet again I have failed to attain a serious, long term relationship, let alone come close to getting married.

It's difficult enough to meet someone who I deeply connect with, find attractive. I have waited years for this. I was extremely down about not meeting someone before her, and then I met her and for a brief moment, there was hope and I dared to finally believe that this could actually work. But it's ended like every other promising situation and now I'm back to where I was. And now I'm going to think with the next girl, I am going to be quite insecure because I fear the same outcome after a promising start. I wish I could just give up sometimes. 

Sorry this is so long and appreciate if you've made it this far. 

This is the issue, right here. Because of your idea of yourself (someone who fails in relationships), you're coming from this place when you meet someone. So your actions are all determined by it. Even when you met someone who was not a good fit for you (some people would be fine with the herpes thing, you are not and that's fine), you still wanted to make it work. Just not for the right reasons. I'm sure she also sensed some desperation coming from you, and how conclicted you were when you found out about her herpes. You just wanted to avoid another failed start of a relationship, as they are now weighing you down big time. I know well the feeling mate, it sucks.

Quick question: have you been diagnosed with any mental health conditions? The stuff you are describing seems almost coming from the ADHD playbook. Not wanting to diagnose you at all (don't have the qualifications or knowledge of your life to do so, obviously) but it might be worth checking with a professional.

Also, therapy would do you well, I think. It would help understand and make amends with who you are. It would help you accept you; it's the first step before you can accept someone into your life. For me, it helped me accept myself as a person who has great qualities but also several shortcomings. It helped me understand how my ADHD symptoms played a role in those failed relationships (including trying to date the wrong kind of people, as a response to who I thought I should be dating). Once I understood those things a bit more, it was easier to find the right person for me and be able to love them and be loved back.

I benefitted greatly from the two things above, and I can almost guarantee I wouldn't be married right now if I hadn't decided to do so. Good luck in your next steps.

[yogacat]

Sorry to hear it didn't work out.  

She was looking for more reassurance and affection from you after sharing her herpes diagnosis, as it's a very vulnerable thing to do. I get that you needed time to process and come to terms with it, but sometimes when someone is in need of reassurance, a lack of it can feel like rejection and there's no coming back from that.

Sounds like she shut down her feelings towards you because she felt rejected. Maybe there's a part of you that wasn't ready to commit, and she sensed that, and she couldn't put aside the feeling that perhaps you didn't fully accept her. It's not so much about what changed between you, but about what didn't, and that's what may have hurt her.

And it's not that there's anything wrong with not wanting to be with someone with herpes, or any other reason. It's about owning up to those feelings and being honest about them, and the sooner the better. I think you weren't really aware of the lack of affection and reassuring messages on your end. I don't think it was intentional, just that you were so focused on your feelings and roadblock.

[ignite]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

Sorry to hear it didn't work out.  

She was looking for more reassurance and affection from you after sharing her herpes diagnosis, as it's a very vulnerable thing to do. I get that you needed time to process and come to terms with it, but sometimes when someone is in need of reassurance, a lack of it can feel like rejection and there's no coming back from that.

Sounds like she shut down her feelings towards you because she felt rejected. Maybe there's a part of you that wasn't ready to commit, and she sensed that, and she couldn't put aside the feeling that perhaps you didn't fully accept her. It's not so much about what changed between you, but about what didn't, and that's what may have hurt her.

And it's not that there's anything wrong with not wanting to be with someone with herpes, or any other reason. It's about owning up to those feelings and being honest about them, and the sooner the better. I think you weren't really aware of the lack of affection and reassuring messages on your end. I don't think it was intentional, just that you were so focused on your feelings and roadblock.

I agree, I didn't provide that extra reassurance and affection that I should have in that period. I didn't go really distant or ignore her or anything like that but like you said perhaps she felt that rejection because she sensed something had changed. 

I feel though it wasn't just this issue. She had mentioned at the same time she wasn't sure about our spiritual compatibility and had doubts around how things would be long term regarding church activity. But I do wonder... Did this other stuff only come up because of the herpes revelation? This was the catalyst and from there she started thinking about all the other issues. Guess will never know. 

Say the herpes didn't even affect me or say she didn't disclose it at all, then these other unrelated doubts and issues could well have come up too at some point but I suspect it would have been dealt in a different context and in a different lens compared to how it was here. It may still not have been right herpes or not. 

Anyway, I am really struggling here. Last night when I left her I was fine, got home, fine. But I haven't slept at all. The pain I feel right now is gut wrenching. I didn't think it would be this bad. Every time I close my eyes, I see her, hear here and wish it could have been different. She would have dreams about me, that's how strongly she felt towards me. So to come from that to switching off her feelings almost overnight is a really painful experience. 

[ignite]

And another reason... This is the first time since like perhaps 2009 that I've been with a girl who has shown me this level of affection and attention. That's like 15 years! I know it was genuine and real from her and maybe I took it for granted slightly thinking this could be it, this is going to last and she'll be here because of how strongly she felt. Even then we're only talking 2 months of her being like this before she switched and those feelings were no more. 

Such a short period of time overall but like I said in my world, this is so rare for me to even date someone this long. 

I'm fearing this might take a long time for me to recover. 

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, ignite said:

And another reason... This is the first time since like perhaps 2009 that I've been with a girl who has shown me this level of affection and attention. That's like 15 years! I know it was genuine and real from her and maybe I took it for granted slightly thinking this could be it, this is going to last and she'll be here because of how strongly she felt. Even then we're only talking 2 months of her being like this before she switched and those feelings were no more. 

Such a short period of time overall but like I said in my world, this is so rare for me to even date someone this long. 

I'm fearing this might take a long time for me to recover. 

I hope you feel better each day.  I think you had unrealistic expectations based on some notion that since it's been 15 years better hurry up and make this work.  She didn't switch.  You reacted strongly to her sharing about the herpes, you reacted in the way Yogacat described and understandably that likely made her question compatibility overall.  She didn't need extra reassurance in general -you were trying to make up for how hard you were on her and sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't.  Especially early on it's very hard to recover from something like that.  I know you feel it's been too long -so since the common denominator is you maybe you can take a look at what you can do diferently, if anything. I hope you get some sleep. It really helps in times like these.

[ignite]

21 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I hope you feel better each day.  I think you had unrealistic expectations based on some notion that since it's been 15 years better hurry up and make this work.  She didn't switch.  You reacted strongly to her sharing about the herpes, you reacted in the way Yogacat described and understandably that likely made her question compatibility overall.  She didn't need extra reassurance in general -you were trying to make up for how hard you were on her and sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't.  Especially early on it's very hard to recover from something like that.  I know you feel it's been too long -so since the common denominator is you maybe you can take a look at what you can do diferently, if anything. I hope you get some sleep. It really helps in times like these.

Thank you. I think yes the catalyst was the herpes and that triggered the other things she brought up later. 

However even during that period where I was processing the herpes, I was still in touch with her, I didn't do a runner and in the one time I saw her in person before I went overseas and before this all went south, we spent a nice weekend together and I expressed physically how I valued her (kissing, hugging etc). But I did bring it up and asked a few more questions about it. I simply wanted to know more about it and her experience.

I don't want beat myself up over this and think if only I had done xyz because she knows how I felt towards her these last two weeks. But no matter what I did or said, she wasn't shifting. 

 

[Batya33]

15 minutes ago, ignite said:

Thank you. I think yes the catalyst was the herpes and that triggered the other things she brought up later. 

However even during that period where I was processing the herpes, I was still in touch with her, I didn't do a runner and in the one time I saw her in person before I went overseas and before this all went south, we spent a nice weekend together and I expressed physically how I valued her (kissing, hugging etc). But I did bring it up and asked a few more questions about it. I simply wanted to know more about it and her experience.

I don't want beat myself up over this and think if only I had done xyz because she knows how I felt towards her these last two weeks. But no matter what I did or said, she wasn't shifting. 

 

I think it's the way you approached it - there's a huge range between a thoughtful response and running away without giving the person a chance to share anything.  I would look at it as an opportunity for personal growth -how you would respond and react next time someone brings up something surprising or worse. I'm the mom of a teenager so believe me I have to learn how to respond to what my teenager shares which at times can be upsetting/frustrating/surprising.

Please don't dismiss this as "I simply wanted to know more" - no you weren't asking about her Peace Corps trip to a third world country where she only told you a few tidbits about a scary situation she was in one night.   You didn't care about her experience.  You cared about you mostly.  Your risk, your health and  you wanted information that would soothe your internal conflict. And anxiety.  That likely was very clear to her.  

I dated someone for 3 months who alluded around a month in to formerly having anger issues that presented only in relation to his sport that he did. After 3 months -already wondering whether this relationship had future potential -he took me to see him play the sport. I saw scary anger issues -nothing at all directed toward me, he never showed any strong negative emotions towards me.  I asked him after and he said "yes I still do that and I'm not going to more therapy and he then shared his diagnosis.  I then realized I'd seen many empty beer cans in his apartment. I asked nothing more.  I knew if he had this diagnosis and was comfortable having it present this way when he played his sport -scary to me -I was done. Asking more would have been unfair to him in a way -very intrusive since we'd only been dating 3 months.  I ended it the next day.

 

[ignite]

46 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think it's the way you approached it - there's a huge range between a thoughtful response and running away without giving the person a chance to share anything.  I would look at it as an opportunity for personal growth -how you would respond and react next time someone brings up something surprising or worse. I'm the mom of a teenager so believe me I have to learn how to respond to what my teenager shares which at times can be upsetting/frustrating/surprising.

Please don't dismiss this as "I simply wanted to know more" - no you weren't asking about her Peace Corps trip to a third world country where she only told you a few tidbits about a scary situation she was in one night.   You didn't care about her experience.  You cared about you mostly.  Your risk, your health and  you wanted information that would soothe your internal conflict. And anxiety.  That likely was very clear to her.  

I dated someone for 3 months who alluded around a month in to formerly having anger issues that presented only in relation to his sport that he did. After 3 months -already wondering whether this relationship had future potential -he took me to see him play the sport. I saw scary anger issues -nothing at all directed toward me, he never showed any strong negative emotions towards me.  I asked him after and he said "yes I still do that and I'm not going to more therapy and he then shared his diagnosis.  I then realized I'd seen many empty beer cans in his apartment. I asked nothing more.  I knew if he had this diagnosis and was comfortable having it present this way when he played his sport -scary to me -I was done. Asking more would have been unfair to him in a way -very intrusive since we'd only been dating 3 months.  I ended it the next day.

 

No, correct, I was indeed thinking about myself when I wanted to know more. I wanted to know the impact it could have on me and how likely it might be that I could get it and so on and some of that involved knowing whether she had outbreaks etc. I don't think they're unreasonable questions to pose and thoughts to have. But yes in retrospect, I could have been calmer and not stress over it like I did as shown in my original thread. But ultimately, like I've said many times I couldn't help it and I'm trying my best not to kick myself now, now that it's too late. 

I suppose I can console myself knowing that after she backed away, I tried my best to assure her that her herpes was not an issue and I wanted to commit to her and showed her that in the past two weeks. 

[Batya33]

Just now, ignite said:

No, correct, I was indeed thinking about myself when I wanted to know more. I wanted to know the impact it could have on me and how likely it might be that I could get it and so on and some of that involved knowing whether she had outbreaks etc. I don't think they're unreasonable questions to pose and thoughts to have. But yes in retrospect, I could have been calmer and not stress over it like I did as shown in my original thread. But ultimately, like I've said many times I couldn't help it and I'm trying my best not to kick myself now, now that it's too late. 

I suppose I can console myself knowing that after she backed away, I tried my best to assure her that her herpes was not an issue and I wanted to commit to her and showed her that in the past two weeks. 

Yes you genuinely apologized and of course don't beat yourself up about this particular short term relationship.  I was speaking more generally about evaluating how you approach difficult situations in the future with other people.  Maybe it's a learning experience.  

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for health related information but you'd said it was to "understand" more about "her experience" -you knew and she knew you were a bit freaked out about the health situation and whether you felt comfortable being with someone in that situation especially given that it burst your bubble about how you initially viewed her.

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

you knew and she knew you were a bit freaked out about the health situation and whether you felt comfortable being with someone in that situation especially given that it burst your bubble about how you initially viewed her.

^^Absolutely especially bolded.  OP I think it's real important you start getting emotionally honest with yourself here.  

After I brought it up earlier in the thread, the majority of your posts focused on how you viewed her -  less pure, less innocent, less virginal, less feminine; basically you viewed her as a h**!  You admitted it!  Or you questioned it (within yourself).

You don't think she sensed this?  Well never underestimate a woman's power of intuition and perception because she did, could almost guarantee it!

I think you knew and know perfectly well that herpes can be managed and controlled and that couples have active sex lives when one partner has herpes.

All it takes is a quick search on Google to learn that.  There are tons of reputable websites discussing this. 

So imo that wasn't much of an issue at all.  If it was, a very minor one.

it was an excuse to avoid the REAL issue for you which again was the fact you viewed her differently.  Less than. 

I'm not even judging you for it, it's how you felt, your feelings and you're entitled to those feelings. 

Just own it!  And stop hiding behind all these other BS excuses. 

It's so very obvious to me and I would say her and most women that once she began pulling away and you began buying her gifts and such, it was an attempt to hold her.  Due to your fears of being alone and insecurities.  Or whatever.

I mean how do you suddenly change from viewing her as less pure, less virginal, less feminine one day to soon thereafter and after she began pulling away, no longer feeling that way? And bombarding her with gifts?  To prove how much you care? 

Again you don't think she saw right through that?   It came across as phony, disingenuous TO HER.  Which explains her rather cold, unaffected response to it. 

Imo all of this added to why she ended it. 

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but this is done.  Imo it was done the minute she told you. 

You will never view her the same, that much is obvious at least to me.  Early perceptions are often very difficult to change. 

Instead of all the mental gymnastics you played, you should have just ended it after she told you and you began having negative feelings and doubts. 

I'm sorry but imo it was for the best it ended. 

Good luck moving forward and I mean that sincerely. 

"That which does not kill you makes you stronger." 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

OP I want to expand a bit more on what Rainbow wrote.  Expand not change.  

Be careful about these intense images of someone as innocent/pure etc - it's very extreme and then much easier to burst bubbles.  Instead a more measured view can withstand surprises. Like "she seems like a person of character and integrity" "she seems like such a compassionate and generous person" "what she did for those strangers- I am in awe! I'm inspired" - all of these are measured and specific not some abstract ideal of Pure Woman.

When I was trying to  deliver our baby and later had a near emergency c-section (husband arrived after I got to hospital lol -I was 9 days early, he was 800 miles away) - I always wondered -did my husband seeing me -that way- was it a turn off? Was it a nothing burger? No he didn't watch the surgery but I mean hours and hours of pushing and I mean um it's not pretty and he's also my lover, right??

What if that had burst his bubble about his wife's attractiveness, about her body, etc? Some strong image he'd had.  But he wasn't extreme like that (nor did I ask him!) -your vision of this woman comes across a bit too extreme especially since you have not led that sort of life.

Something maybe to think about.

[yogacat]

17 hours ago, ignite said:

I agree, I didn't provide that extra reassurance and affection that I should have in that period. I didn't go really distant or ignore her or anything like that but like you said perhaps she felt that rejection because she sensed something had changed. 

I feel though it wasn't just this issue. She had mentioned at the same time she wasn't sure about our spiritual compatibility and had doubts around how things would be long term regarding church activity. But I do wonder... Did this other stuff only come up because of the herpes revelation? This was the catalyst and from there she started thinking about all the other issues. Guess will never know. 

Say the herpes didn't even affect me or say she didn't disclose it at all, then these other unrelated doubts and issues could well have come up too at some point but I suspect it would have been dealt in a different context and in a different lens compared to how it was here. It may still not have been right herpes or not. 

Anyway, I am really struggling here. Last night when I left her I was fine, got home, fine. But I haven't slept at all. The pain I feel right now is gut wrenching. I didn't think it would be this bad. Every time I close my eyes, I see her, hear here and wish it could have been different. She would have dreams about me, that's how strongly she felt towards me. So to come from that to switching off her feelings almost overnight is a really painful experience. 

It sometimes takes that which is most special to us being lost to learn just how lucky we are for having had the people in our lives that we have. It takes a very strong person to handle a diagnosis like herpes, and if she didn't feel you were able to fully support her, then it just wasn't the right relationship for either of you. You said some other things in private which I don't care to comment on, but yes, I think that being blindsided by somebody disclosing a diagnosis does sometimes cause people to doubt everything else in the relationship.

I know this firsthand, as my ex had retroactive jealousy, and that shut me down. I just felt so misunderstood, like I needed to reassure him all the time; it was exhausting. Not saying that's what this was or is but a lot of your views focused around her not being pure enough.

But also, in case there was already a conversation about spiritual compatibility, then maybe those doubts were there. And again, it's not because of the herpes; it's knowing maybe this relationship wasn't providing all she needed.

I know it's unbearable now, but with time the pain will pass. It always does. And even though right now you can't see this, in a little time you will feel grateful that this happened to you. It will teach you so much about yourself and relationships. When processed and let go of, the pain won't be this strong any longer.

[ShySoul]

Hey buddy.

You didn't do anything wrong. You might not have reacted in the best manner, but that only means you are human. None of us get it 100% right all the time. We all have moments where we pull back or need time to process. She did the same thing, could have said more about her feelings to you. Thinking you were in the wrong and anaylzing what you could or should have done is only going to make you feel worse. It's not going to change what happen, it's not going to make either of you feel better, and it's going to make you more anxious going forward.

Remember my situation I wrote to you about? How she would go from the strongest of feelings for me to wanting to end things entirely? How it was back and forth? That pain was gut wrenching. I lost sleep over it. And it shook my confidence. But I was able to get through and find someone better. You will as well.

The way I was able to get through was not by thinking of all the things I did wrong or could have done different. It was focusing on the things I did right. It was accepting that I wasn't perfect and made mistakes, but that those mistakes were on both ends. It was knowing that I tried my hardest to make things work, to get through the obstacles put in the way. Even if we couldn't get past all of them, we tried. We made an honest, sincere effort. Life just had other plans for us.

Likewise, you tried. Mistakes were made on both sides, but you made an honest, sincere effort. Life had other plans for the two of you. This isn't about herpes or what anyone said or did. This was two people not at the right place and time in their life to stay together. Take the positives from this. You shared something special for a time, something you both needed at that time. Remember it fondly and leave it at that.

This also has no bearing on what will happen in the future. Every relationship any of us has will start off well and be amazing, until it isn't. You always think things are great until the day something isn't right. None of us get it right... until that magic moment when we do. For most people there are far more failures then successes. But that doesn't mean the failures weren't good experiences or something to cherish. It doesn't mean there will always be failures. 

Have faith. You will find someone right for you. You will find someone who matches you on compatibilty. They will want just what you want and it will take you by storm. One day it will work out. And it will be worth everything you've been through to get there.

[ignite]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

^^Absolutely especially bolded.  OP I think it's real important you start getting emotionally honest with yourself here.  

After I brought it up earlier in the thread, the majority of your posts focused on how you viewed her -  less pure, less innocent, less virginal, less feminine; basically you viewed her as a h**!  You admitted it!  Or you questioned it (within yourself).

You don't think she sensed this?  Well never underestimate a woman's power of intuition and perception because she did, could almost guarantee it!

I think you knew and know perfectly well that herpes can be managed and controlled and that couples have active sex lives when one partner has herpes.

All it takes is a quick search on Google to learn that.  There are tons of reputable websites discussing this. 

So imo that wasn't much of an issue at all.  If it was, a very minor one.

it was an excuse to avoid the REAL issue for you which again was the fact you viewed her differently.  Less than. 

I'm not even judging you for it, it's how you felt, your feelings and you're entitled to those feelings. 

Just own it!  And stop hiding behind all these other BS excuses. 

It's so very obvious to me and I would say her and most women that once she began pulling away and you began buying her gifts and such, it was an attempt to hold her.  Due to your fears of being alone and insecurities.  Or whatever.

I mean how do you suddenly change from viewing her as less pure, less virginal, less feminine one day to soon thereafter and after she began pulling away, no longer feeling that way? And bombarding her with gifts?  To prove how much you care? 

Again you don't think she saw right through that?   It came across as phony, disingenuous TO HER.  Which explains her rather cold, unaffected response to it. 

Imo all of this added to why she ended it. 

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but this is done.  Imo it was done the minute she told you. 

You will never view her the same, that much is obvious at least to me.  Early perceptions are often very difficult to change. 

Instead of all the mental gymnastics you played, you should have just ended it after she told you and you began having negative feelings and doubts. 

I'm sorry but imo it was for the best it ended. 

Good luck moving forward and I mean that sincerely. 

"That which does not kill you makes you stronger." 

Thank you I do appreciate your thoughts again on this. 

Ok yes, I do admit that the herpes revelation did change how I saw her, definitely. The fact that she was so feminine and had all those traditional attributes which I am looking for, made it more difficult for me to accept that she could have an STD. The two aspects simply did not marry up in my view.  I realised though even in that week and the following week, that this was the wrong way to look at it but I admit I still felt that way, that I saw her differently all due to the STD. And it pains me to say that because I didn't want it to be true. I hate myself for even thinking that now but it's due to the hang-ups I have.  

I remember your post to me back then you did say "I truly hope you've been able to sort at least some of that out" that referring to these views and that's exactly what I was trying to do being truly honest. I know how it seems, like you said how can I go from having these views and then suddenly claiming to want to commit to her and be with her?  Well because as I've said many times now, she had so many qualities and aspects that I'm looking for in a woman and I did genuinely want to date her and over time the herpes will not be an issue at all because how I feel about her.  

I can see how my efforts in the last two weeks may have come across as disingenuous but she herself had expressed that she didn't feel accepted and that I had distanced myself and wasn't happy with her and in this relationship. So the obvious action would be the show that that is not the case and so I did what I could to show her my true intentions...because I did want to make things work and genuinely obviously didn't want this relationship to end.  That much is obvious to me as you can see, otherwise I wouldn't have spent the last few weeks writing on this form to start with! 

Early perceptions can be difficult to change, yes, but I just couldn't throw the towel in as soon as she told me about the herpes because I knew that it was a very emotional reaction. So I had to let things settle, process things and go from there. 

 

[ignite]

4 hours ago, yogacat said:

It sometimes takes that which is most special to us being lost to learn just how lucky we are for having had the people in our lives that we have. It takes a very strong person to handle a diagnosis like herpes, and if she didn't feel you were able to fully support her, then it just wasn't the right relationship for either of you. You said some other things in private which I don't care to comment on, but yes, I think that being blindsided by somebody disclosing a diagnosis does sometimes cause people to doubt everything else in the relationship.

I know this firsthand, as my ex had retroactive jealousy, and that shut me down. I just felt so misunderstood, like I needed to reassure him all the time; it was exhausting. Not saying that's what this was or is but a lot of your views focused around her not being pure enough.

But also, in case there was already a conversation about spiritual compatibility, then maybe those doubts were there. And again, it's not because of the herpes; it's knowing maybe this relationship wasn't providing all she needed.

I know it's unbearable now, but with time the pain will pass. It always does. And even though right now you can't see this, in a little time you will feel grateful that this happened to you. It will teach you so much about yourself and relationships. When processed and let go of, the pain won't be this strong any longer.

When she did reveal in-person when we were spending a nice day together and then we started talking about our pasts.  And crucially, she also built up to it and I could sense anxiety and tension within her as she was about to say what it was.  In my mind I was like, I’ll accept whatever it was as I did really like her. When she mentioned it was herpes, obviously I was taken back but was gentle and tried to be understanding. She said it’s fine if that changes things, she’ll understand and also whether I now see her differently… And guess what happened, those two things did happen in the next coming days. Almost like a self fulfilling prophecy as I guess those two things did happen - I did see her differently and things did change. 

And yes like I admitted earlier, my image of her as this super feminine, traditional woman was kind of shattered.

In 2-3 weeks after she told me I think she may have expected me to actually express my feelings about it or provide some kind of “update” on my “progress.”  Because I didn’t, she took that to mean I wasn’t happy and was struggling with the whole issue. And eventually she went a step further I guess, and thought I may never get over it and so shut down her feelings and checked out.  I just wish she had raised her concerns before she did this, not when it was basically too late.

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, ignite said:

Ah here’s the thing – she did reveal in-person when we were spending a nice day together and then we started talking about our pasts.  And crucially, she also built up to it and I could sense anxiety and tension within her as she was about to say what it was.  In my mind I was like, I’ll accept whatever it was as I did really like her. When she mentioned it was herpes, obviously I was taken back but was gentle and tried to be understanding. She said it’s fine if that changes things, she’ll understand and also whether I now see her differently… And guess what happened, those two things did happen in the next coming days. Almost like a self fulfilling prophecy.

I knew about herpes and I know it’s not life threatening and a fairly harmless skin condition but other factors were at play too…like my image of her as this super feminine, traditional woman was kind of shattered and I know that’s awful way to think but that’s how I thought about it.

In 2-3 weeks after she told me I think she may have expected me to actually express my feelings about it or provide some kind of “update” on my “progress.”  Because I didn’t, she took that to mean I wasn’t happy and was struggling with the whole issue. And eventually she went a step further I guess, and thought I may never get over it and so shut down her feelings and checked out.  I just wish she had raised her concerns before she did this, not when it was basically too late.

I also think since you two hadn't been dating long and this was stressful for her to tell, stressful for you to hear - you were in foreign territory -lots of guessing games about what was the correct response if any, and on and on.

I may be totally wrong but I thought herpes also complicates giving birth maybe? I also have never understood genital herpes to be a fairly harmless condition but I really haven't thought about it as a potential issue in decades.

[rainbowsandroses]

54 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I may be totally wrong but I thought herpes also complicates giving birth maybe.

^^Bat (and @ignite), the below is from the Advanced Fertility Center of Texas' website, FYI.

Herpes and Pregnancy

Many women worry about how having herpes might impact their pregnancy and childbirth. 

Unless the first outbreak occurs while pregnant, there is practically no risk associated with herpes and pregnancy. In fact, according to the American Sexual Health Association, while 25-30% of pregnant women have genital herpes, less than 0.1% of babies both in the United States each year get neonatal herpes. 

The only real danger that herpes poses to pregnancy is in the form of an extremely rare strain of the virus, HHV-6A, which can lead to miscarriage. However, the vast majority of pregnant women with herpes carry a healthy baby to term. 

___

A friend of mine whom I met on another forum has had Herpes (hsv2) for something like 30 years.  She's given birth to two healthy children with no complications.

In fact, @ignite created a couple of threads on that forum and my friend has been providing him with invaluable information since she's had it for 30+ years!

It's never hindered her ability to find boyfriends, once they do research and understand it, for her, for him, it has become basically a nothingburger.

Outbreaks are rare, there is antiviral medication to prevent outbreaks and she has never transmitted it to any of her boyfriends or husband when she was married.

Anyway, @ignite again I really do wish you all the best!  

To quote @ShySoul...

4 hours ago, ShySoul said:

Have faith. You will find someone right for you. You will find someone who matches you on compatibilty. They will want just what you want and it will take you by storm. One day it will work out. And it will be worth everything you've been through to get there.

 

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

^^Bat (and @ignite), the below is from the Advanced Fertility Center of Texas' website, FYI.

Herpes and Pregnancy

Many women worry about how having herpes might impact their pregnancy and childbirth. 

Unless the first outbreak occurs while pregnant, there is practically no risk associated with herpes and pregnancy. In fact, according to the American Sexual Health Association, while 25-30% of pregnant women have genital herpes, less than 0.1% of babies both in the United States each year get neonatal herpes. 

The only real danger that herpes poses to pregnancy is in the form of an extremely rare strain of the virus, HHV-6A, which can lead to miscarriage. However, the vast majority of pregnant women with herpes carry a healthy baby to term. 

___

A friend of mine whom I met on another forum has had Herpes for something like 30 years.  She's given birth to two healthy children with no complications.

In fact, @ignite created a thread on that forum and my friend has been providing him with invaluable information since she's had it for 30+ years.

It's never hindered her ability to find boyfriends, once they do research and understand it, for her, for him, it has become basically a nothingburger.

Outbreaks are rare, there is antiviral medication to prevent outbreaks and she has never transmitted it to any of her boyfriends or husband when she was married.

Anyway, @ignite again I really do wish you all the best.  

To quote @ShySoul...

 

Thanks I didn't know! I remember decades ago there was some research.  Never had to deal with it.  I had to be tested for all sorts of stuff right before my due date -I think I had strep B and needed some antibiotic for that- something like that.  So my sense is that the tests include STDs and nowadays they know how to deal with that  to protect mom and baby.  Also I couldn't get the what is it called - hpv? -vaccine because I was  too old by the time it came out.  I remember my younger friend being delighted to be able to get it since some strains can cause cervical cancer.  Glad to hear it - as I wrote I was not familiar with the current knowledge. 

[rainbowsandroses]

16 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

So my sense is that the tests include STDs and nowadays they know how to deal with that  to protect mom and baby.  Also I couldn't get the what is it called - hpv? -vaccine because I was  too old by the time it came out.  I remember my younger friend being delighted to be able to get it since some strains can cause cervical cancer.  

Another tidbit I found.

Human papillomavirus (HPV) and herpes simplex virus (HSV) are both sexually transmitted infections (STIs) that can cause discomfort, but they have different symptoms, treatments, and long-term health effects.

HPV can cause cervical cancer and there is a vaccine for it.

Not so for HSV as far as I know.  But antiviral meds can hinder outbreaks.

I don't know why but I find all this medical stuff so interesting!  

Sometimes I think I should have become a doctor or nurse but I cannot stomach all that blood! 

Research I enjoy doing though.

 

 

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Another tidbit I found.

Human papillomavirus (HPV) and herpes simplex virus (HSV) are both sexually transmitted infections (STIs) that can cause discomfort, but they have different symptoms, treatments, and long-term health effects.

HPV can cause cervical cancer and there is a vaccine for it.

Not so for HSV as far as I know.  But antiviral meds can hinder outbreaks.

I don't know why but I find all this medical stuff so interesting!  

Sometimes I think I should have become a doctor or nurse but I cannot stomach all that blood! 

Research I enjoy doing though.

 

 

Yes I just missed the age window for the vaccine but now they even vaccinate teenagers! Only certain strains of HPV can cause cervical cancer. 

OP I know the shock factor -you thought the person was X and now is Y or not X. When I was a 15 my 15 year old BFF told me she'd had sex with our 16 year old friend in our youth group. I was shocked and yes I had that shattering sense but as a younger person and a virgin it -meant so much to me -and she saw my face-this was in the early 80s.  The shock.  Now I cringe thinking of it - I do give myself a pass since I was so  young and I just assumed she also wanted to wait for the right person and till she was -older! I believe she and I stayed friends but I also think my shock - upset her.  It was impulsive.  I just wanted to say I relate -I had her on a sort of pedestal, felt certain beliefs. We are FB friends now and she is a very very deep person and we bond each time we connect but it's rare.

[SophiaG]

Sorry to hear how things turned out OP. Other commenters already gave great input and I only want to add - not at all for you to continue beating yourself up - that she didn't "suddenly" turned her feelings off. She sensed your hesitancy and decided it was not to be. It doesn't mean you necessarily did anything bad or wrong - you are completely entitled to have those feelings - just as she is entitled and not wrong to decide you were not compatible and shouldn't continue to date. Like @Batya33 and @rainbowsandroses suggested this could be an opportunity to reflect on certain beliefs (e.g., feminine = pure etc.) and grow toward emotional maturity and approach similar situations in future with more grace.

I have shared vulnerable personal information that can well be a deal breaker for many, like chronic depression, in early dating stage with potential partners. They either see it as a problem or they don't - and trust me I can tell even if they don't put it in so many words. I'm not looking to convince anyone it's not a big deal, it won't affect them, and they should still want to date me. I'm looking to identify those who already have the awareness/experience and maturity to understand what it means and to decide they still want to be with me before I get more emotionally invested. So any "processing" more than perhaps a brief moment of contemplation would tell me he's not the guy. Nothing wrong with either party and no hard feelings.

When you first posted here quite a few posters and myself had suggested that given how you were clearly conflicted by this new information it is likely a fundamental compatibility issue - and she would probably take note of your hesitation and make decisions accordingly. Your recent desire to reassure her and keep the relationship going, while very understandable and genuine, could well be the response to fear of loss and desperation to "make things work" - which won't be a sufficient basis for a healthy, long term relationship. Some incompatibilities won't just go away because you care for each other. They will continue to haunt you and your relationship until you are both exhausted.

5 hours ago, ignite said:

Almost like a self fulfilling prophecy as I guess those two things did happen - I did see her differently and things did change.

Next time let this be the clear indicator - as it should be - that you needed to be honest with her and end things instead of hoping to develop enough feelings so you can overlook something that deeply bothers you.

I know you are struggling now. Disappointments hurt. But if an attractive woman - a woman with so many of the qualities you value - developed strong feelings for you then it could happen again. Focus on healing and taking care of yourself. It will get better and one day you can look back at these few months as a memorable, meaningful experience that helped you grow and learn more about yourself and relationships.

 

[ignite]

Thanks @SophiaG

I appreciate the thoughtful and encouraging response. 

Interestingly, if someone said they had depression or were on anti-depressants, I would have no issue with that, if anything I would be even more attracted to them in a strange way, because I have dealt with depression and anxiety myself so I would be very sympathetic and understanding.  I think with the herpes, I obviously let the stigma just get to me and spiralled a little before calming down but it was always an issue at the back of my head. But after fully realising this is nothing more than a benign skin condition, I told myself I don't want this issue to be in the way, so I will push forwards because I want to get to know this girl better and fall in love with her. I'm not denying it didn't deeply bother me. It did for sure, at first.  

Two days before she disconnected and checked out, she did say to me, when talking to her friend, how I mean what I say and that made her feel safe and secure.  Few days before that she was dreaming about me in her dreams. Everything from my point of view was great as far as I could see it, that's why it was such a shock when she backed away in the way she did. Not blaming her for it but you can understand why and how I am reacting as I am now. It's so surreal. 

You're right and she said it throughout Friday that I didn't do anything wrong, and nothing bad has happened here so that's perhaps why she was slightly hesitant as well to call it a day when I saw her.  And didn't want to continue as it wasn't fair on me as she knows how I feel. 

 

 

 

[ignite]

When I saw her on the Friday two weeks ago, we did discuss things in detail, I re-iterated my stance and how I felt about her and said I wanted to make things work and she was still unsure of course because emotionally she still doubted the acceptance of the herpes for example.  But when we went back to her place, it was nice although she still said she feels the same, she didn't pull away when I wanted to kiss and just hug her. That weekend she seemed to pull towards me again, she started sending more texts, we had a nice call on the Sunday and I felt that perhaps we could be back on track.  

So the reason I bring this up is I felt that this Friday gone, if we had just hung out in the same way we did two weeks ago, perhaps she would have been more at ease by spending time with me IN-PERSON and then that might have helped her reconnect potentially?  

But then this Friday gone, there's no way I could not approach the subject since she was being distant and cold with me when we met. After we had the coffee, then we did hang out and walked around the city, got some food, chatted about normal stuff like things used to be for several hours. All the while she was the same and reminded me where she stood and how she feels when I asked a couple of times. There were a couple of moments where I hugged her and touched her arm and she didn't pull away but I obviously didn't want to keep pushing it. 

As you can see this is really affecting me and I'm going through all the different scenarios about "if I had done this then..." Plus now she's come up with this other stuff about we're not really that similar and we see serving at church differently etc. So she will use that to fall back on (asides from the herpes) as well if I even hinted at reconnecting.