Leaving text messages unread for days

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, SophiaG said:

Indeed! I feel like people sometimes act in quite thoughtless ways in online dating they wouldn't necessarily treat someone they meet in real life with. Almost like they see you less as a person, more as a profile among so many profiles. I've had guys very communicative and eager to make plans up until the day of the said plan when they suddenly fell silent and disappeared. Who would have known?! Over time you grow a thicker skin for sure...

Yes I avoided this by meeting in person ASAP - I think people who are reliable (pick me!) don't change with an online person they might want to date seriously.  Just like with job interviews where you don't meet the interviewer in person but you set up the whole schedule.  Also same was true if you met someone briefly in a bar or at a singles event - those who tended to be flaky were even more so with a "stranger."  

I had a number of disappearances like that but most often we'd shared two messages and one phone call so I moved on.  I was never stood up except once via a personal ad and he called that night to say he "forgot" so I forgot him.

With the OP they did meet.  I have a friend since the mid 90s who always makes plans with a very specific time and place (we never dated) -he always hated the -we'll talk next week and pick a place- and he had a point - if you do that you're less likely to make plans with a flake -flaky types love to keep things tentative.  Won't make plans in advance, etc. especially if there is a "better deal."

I don't think this had to do at all with how they originally met. I do think in general there is a bit more accountability when you meet through friends or through a common activity where you will see each other regularly.

[jazz_lover]

If she was tentative for next week because she was holding out for better offers pushing harder might have pinned her down on a date but she might then have ended up cancelling closer to the time.

Even if she showed up it might just indicate her fridge was empty or she was bored and wanted some entertainment or the guy she really liked was playing games.

And then I would have to hope that I’d be able to raise her interest level on the date so that she’d be more enthusiastic about arranging future dates and make more effort. 

Of course all the persistence might pay off and over time I might become more of a priority and she might start texting me more and want to see me more often etc and it would then be a smoother ride 

But I could also just get stuck exhausting myself trying to pin her down to dates and wind up spending a lot of money entertaining her and feeding her when she has nothing better to do until she either can’t stand me anymore or finds someone she actually likes and wants to be with. And I’ve have that experience before and it wasn’t fun.

And I guess it just feels like there isn’t enough interest on her part for me to work with. 

If she’d reached out in some form even if it didn’t discuss meeting up but just asked me how the jazz was or if I was having a nice weekend that might have encouraged me to ask her out again. But she’s quite happy to go weeks without seeing me and texting me. So I probably don’t even cross her mind. 

[yogacat]

10 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

She said “maybe next week”. That means “Maybe if I dont have anything else more fun to do”. Why couldnt she be more enthusiastic about it and said “Next week I will leave free to do something with you”? To keep his interest. Why should he be the one to follow up anything if she hasnt been enthusiastic about him very clearly asking her out? Him keeping the interest there isnt only on him and him alone. When other side is showing him she isnt really happy about him asking her out and that she has more better plans. 

I have said something similar in the past when I was interested in seeing the man again so that's why I thought when she said "perhaps next week?" she was implying that she is interested in seeing the man again.

I guess in her case that's a no, though... 

And I do agree with you that it shouldn't just be on the man to keep the interest alive. Maybe I too could have been more demonstrative in my interest when I responded similar but did have in fact interest in seeing the person again. So, thanks for pointing that out! 

[Batya33]

Just now, yogacat said:

I have said something similar in the past when I was interested in seeing the man again so that's why I though when she said "perhaps next week?" she was implying that she is interested in seeing the man again.

I guess in her case that's a no, though... 

And I do agree with you that it shouldn't just be on the man to keep the interest alive. Maybe I too could have been more demonstrative in my interest when I responded similar but did have in fact interest in seeing the person again. So, thanks for pointing that out! 

On the other extreme I was really interested in seeing this man again maybe third or fourth date so when he said so what are you doing this weekend I said “um going on a date with you “ 

[yogacat]

1 minute ago, Batya33 said:

On the other extreme I was really interested in seeing this man again maybe third or fourth date so when he said so what are you doing this weekend I said “um going on a date with you “ 

Spicy, I like it! 😄

[rainbowsandroses]

21 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Maybe I too could have been more demonstrative in my interest when I responded similar but did have in fact interest in seeing the person again. So, thanks for pointing that out! 

If I may comment on this^.

In the past, I too have been somewhat elusive and in some men's minds "mysterious" and the men who continued to pursue me were men seeking a "challenge," it had had very little to do with any feelings they had towards me.

They also tended to be arrogant, self-absorbed, unable to read signals and emotionally unavailable. Generalizing.

If/when I responded to their relentless pursuit (which was very rare because for me it's a huge turn off), suddenly they were not quite so interested anymore.

Not that they ever were really, they were interested in the challenge and mystery of me.

Good quality men don't tolerate evasive women who don't make effort, send mixed messages and make things difficult.

It took me awhile to learn this but once I did, my entire mindset changed!  

And my dating experiences!  

[rainbowsandroses]

47 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

On the other extreme I was really interested in seeing this man again maybe third or fourth date so when he said so what are you doing this weekend I said “um going on a date with you “ 

I've had men say this^ to me!  With a wink or sexy smirk. 

It demonstrates confidence and a surety of themselves that I found/find extremely attractive assuming the chemistry is there in the first place and we are both making effort. 

[yogacat]

4 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

If I may comment on this^.

In the past, I too have been somewhat elusive and in some men's minds "mysterious" and the men who continued to pursue me were men seeking a "challenge," it had had very little to do with any feelings they had towards me.

They also tended to be arrogant, self-absorbed, unable to read signals and emotionally unavailable. Generalizing.

If/when I responded to their relentless pursuit (which was very rare because for me it's a huge turn off), suddenly they were not quite so interested anymore.

Not that they ever were really, they were interested in the challenge and mystery of me.

Good quality men don't tolerate evasive women who don't make effort, send mixed messages and make things difficult.

It took me awhile to learn this but once I did, my entire mindset changed!  

It's just the way I sometimes respond, not something that I'm doing on purpose. Most men don't like women playing hard-to-get so if that's a game they actually play, it's neither my problem nor my responsibility to deal with it.

That is not to say that sometimes uncertainty comes up afterwards  (because sometimes it does) and I am not immune to it either but the feeling can be mutual and I more often than not respond very enthusiastically when I think the feeling is mutual.

I do understand what you're saying though. Thank you for your response!

[rainbowsandroses]

22 minutes ago, yogacat said:

It's just the way I sometimes respond, not something that I'm doing on purpose.

I wasn't responding that way intentionally either. 

It didn't matter, the result was the same, my experience.

Since then, I am much more aware of how my reactions and responses are perceived and make an effort to be less "mysterious" and more straightforward.

If/when I feel uncertain I speak up or simply deal. Uncertainty is a given especially during early stages.  I've learned to actually embrace it and not freak. 

I've posted this previously on another forum but my ex fiancé of six years who I've spoken here about, literally chased me for 5.5 years! 

We even lived together but nevertheless, I was elusive and evasive, avoidant.

Not intentionally. Basically, it was my fears and anxiety steering that ship. 

In any event, that was our dynamic, he actually loved it, he loved the challenge and it sort of worked for us albeit in a very unhealthy way, in retrospect.

I finally agreed to marry him after 5.5 years, and although it was subtle I felt the change in him almost immediately!  

I eventually broke the engagement and we parted ways. 

That was when my mindset began changing that has brought me to where I am today. 

[yogacat]

13 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I wasn't responding that way intentionally either. 

It didn't matter, the result was the same, my experience.

Since then, I am much more aware of how my responses are perceived and make an effort to be less "mysterious" and more straightforward.

If/when I feel uncertain I speak up or simply deal. Uncertainty is a given especially during early stages.  I've learned to actually embrace it and not freak. 

I've posted this previously on another forum but my ex fiancé of six years who I've spoken here about, literally chased me for 5.5 years! 

We even lived together but nevertheless, I was elusive and evasive, not intentionally. Basically, it was my fears and anxiety steering that ship. 

In any event, that was our dynamic, he actually loved it, he loved the challenge and it sort of worked for us albeit in a very unhealthy way, in retrospect.

I finally agreed to marry him after 5.5 years, and although it was subtle I felt the change almost immediately.

That was when my mindset began changing that has brought me to where I am today. 

Thank you for sharing.

The men I have been in long-term relationships, with the exception of one, were good boyfriends for me.

No drugs, no abuse, no infidelity, so when you say an elusive personality attracts "not good men," sure, there's going to be examples (or exceptions) for sure!

[rainbowsandroses]

9 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Thank you for sharing.

The men I have been in long-term relationships, with the exception of one, were good boyfriends for me.

No drugs, no abuse, no infidelity, so when you say an elusive personality attracts "not good men," sure, there's going to be examples (or exceptions) for sure!

Of course there are exceptions.  I did post I was generalizing yoga, perhaps you missed it. 

My ex-fiancé was one example of a man who enjoyed and thrived on the challenge. 

That said, he treated me quite well for most of our relationship till the end. 

[yogacat]

3 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I did post I was generalizing yoga, perhaps you missed it. 

You posted you were generalizing for men that are arrogant, self-absorbed, unable to read signals and emotionally unavailable. 

You went on to say:

43 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Good quality men don't tolerate evasive women who don't make effort, send mixed messages and make things difficult.

It took me awhile to learn this but once I did, my entire mindset changed!  

That is not generalizing. That is your opinion.

[rainbowsandroses]

6 minutes ago, yogacat said:

You posted you were generalizing for men that are arrogant, self-absorbed, unable to read signals and emotionally unavailable. 

You went on to say:

That is not generalizing. That is your opinion.

Fair enough.  And yes it is my opinion, I own it. 

Continue doing you yoga and hope you achieve whatever it is you're seeking. 

I mean that sincerely.

[yogacat]

10 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Fair enough.  And yes it is my opinion, I own it. 

Continue doing you yoga and hope you achieve whatever it is you're seeking. 

I mean that sincerely.

Thank you RAR. I hope you do too!

Yes, I realize that some of my responses with showing mutual interest can be more mixed or somewhat ambiguous early on and it has crossed my mind whether or not my responses can be perceived mixed, albeit unintentional.

I was just responding to the part about the woman in this thread saying "maybe next week?" Because I thought my responses in the past have at times been similar and I was interested in seeing him again. And we did!

I have suggested to men that we meet in a more direct way too. So, it really depends on the situation and how I feel towards the man.

It's really all a process, learning!  Like you say. 

I wish that she had replied more positively. In this specific situation and also trying to put the situation in the perspective of the op though, while she showed some signs of enthusiasm, the whole "maybe next week" thing is a little too open-ended now that I think about it in the context of dating.

[Kwothe28]

49 minutes ago, yogacat said:

And I do agree with you that it shouldn't just be on the man to keep the interest alive. Maybe I too could have been more demonstrative in my interest when I responded similar but did have in fact interest in seeing the person again. So, thanks for pointing that out! 

Its not a dig on you. Just think that both sexes could be more clearer when it comes to stuff like that. I had a situation few years ago where I have gone on the date with very nice woman. Pretty, lawyer etc. Anyway, she was very elusive after the date even though I could tell she wasnt against us and answered my messages. But I was bothered with some stuff like that she didnt even commented on a gift I did for a date(origami rose that I made, nothing that extravagant) and that she was generally "meh" after. So I waited few days to see if she would contact me to at least ask how have Ive been. And when she didnt I did a sensible thing and wished her luck(I dont like just ghosting people) and said that I dont want to continue when its clear she is "Meh". Anyway, you know what she says? "OMG, I wanted to send the same message to you, I was wondering why you didnt message etc". Probably just an excuse because of what Ive wrote. But something to think about when it comes to interests. And how our actions gets interpret.

For example "jazz" is very clear in his pursuits. And even follows up after his ladies are kinda "meh" in their expressing of interest. Could be because they are "multidating" and have something(or somebody) else lining up for them. But, at least he is very clear about it. Them? Not so much. Like "it would be OK if you take me out somewhere nice but it would also be OK if you dont". Those are the worst ones. At least when they tell you they have no interest you know where you stand. But when they keep you in "limbo" you are neither here or there. You dont know whether you should follow up with the message or just let it go. 

[rainbowsandroses]

14 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Its not a dig on you. Just think that both sexes could be more clearer when it comes to stuff like that. I had a situation few years ago where I have gone on the date with very nice woman. Pretty, lawyer etc. Anyway, she was very elusive after the date even though I could tell she wasnt against us and answered my messages. But I was bothered with some stuff like that she didnt even commented on a gift I did for a date(origami rose that I made, nothing that extravagant) and that she was generally "meh" after. So I waited few days to see if she would contact me to at least ask how have Ive been. And when she didnt I did a sensible thing and wished her luck(I dont like just ghosting people) and said that I dont want to continue when its clear she is "Meh". Anyway, you know what she says? "OMG, I wanted to send the same message to you, I was wondering why you didnt message etc". Probably just an excuse because of what Ive wrote. But something to think about when it comes to interests. And how our actions gets interpret.

For example "jazz" is very clear in his pursuits. And even follows up after his ladies are kinda "meh" in their expressing of interest. Could be because they are "multidating" and have something(or somebody) else lining up for them. But, at least he is very clear about it. Them? Not so much. Like "it would be OK if you take me out somewhere nice but it would also be OK if you dont". Those are the worst ones. At least when they tell you they have no interest you know where you stand. But when they keep you in "limbo" you are neither here or there. You dont know whether you should follow up with the message or just let it go. 

^^Well said @Kwothe28. The entire post.  

And the fact this comes from you, a man, speaks volumes imo and was exactly what I was saying too (or trying to).

[yogacat]

14 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Its not a dig on you. Just think that both sexes could be more clearer when it comes to stuff like that. I had a situation few years ago where I have gone on the date with very nice woman. Pretty, lawyer etc. Anyway, she was very elusive after the date even though I could tell she wasnt against us and answered my messages. But I was bothered with some stuff like that she didnt even commented on a gift I did for a date(origami rose that I made, nothing that extravagant) and that she was generally "meh" after. So I waited few days to see if she would contact me to at least ask how have Ive been. And when she didnt I did a sensible thing and wished her luck(I dont like just ghosting people) and said that I dont want to continue when its clear she is "Meh". Anyway, you know what she says? "OMG, I wanted to send the same message to you, I was wondering why you didnt message etc". Probably just an excuse because of what Ive wrote. But something to think about when it comes to interests. And how our actions gets interpret.

For example "jazz" is very clear in his pursuits. And even follows up after his ladies are kinda "meh" in their expressing of interest. Could be because they are "multidating" and have something(or somebody) else lining up for them. But, at least he is very clear about it. Them? Not so much. Like "it would be OK if you take me out somewhere nice but it would also be OK if you dont". Those are the worst ones. At least when they tell you they have no interest you know where you stand. But when they keep you in "limbo" you are neither here or there. You dont know whether you should follow up with the message or just let it go. 

Thanks. And I admit, I can be indecisive at times.

I make sure now if I know there's no interest to explicitly state it but sometimes subtleties just don't come natural for me so I have to remember making more of an obvious effort in my actions and words always.

I've also been on the receiving end of men who come off as indecisive and it is frustrating on that end of it also.

I really agree, no one deserves to be left in limbo. 

So that woman in your story, do you think she was trying to save face/ego by saying she wanted to send the same message? Or, trying to genuinely identify some sort of plausible lie to avoid feeling guilty for her own part in the situation? 

Sometimes it's challenging too if two people's communication style don't match up.

For this woman telling Jazz that "maybe next week" she didn't step up to say she wasn't interested, but also didn't step down by saying she was interested either.

I can see how that could make the guy confused about what the woman truly wants. I do think there's a gray area of "maybe" that can only be answered through action, though this specific case sounds like it was lack of action on the woman's part that would have answered it one way or another (whether she was on the fence or not she could have been more forthcoming with her lack of interest). 

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

So that woman in your story, do you think she was trying to save face/ego by saying she wanted to send the same message? Or, trying to genuinely identify some sort of plausible lie to avoid feeling guilty for her own part in the situation? 

 

I dunno, probably first. If I hadnt shoot the message, I dont believe she ever would. I remembered her because she put something on FB yesterday. We didnt block each other so I still see when she posts something here and there. She married last year I think. 😆

 

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

I do think there's a gray area of "maybe" that can only be answered through action, though this specific case sounds like it was lack of action on the woman's part that would have answered it one way or another (whether she was on the fence or not she could have been more forthcoming with her lack of interest). 

Yeah, but she didnt. And I do get it, maybe she has other options so she is more "forthcoming" about them. But she still liked jazz because they did kiss. And still was so "meh" that she wouldnt express genuine interest other than asking a few questions here and there. That is confusing for us men. And not just men because I can imagine some men do that to women too. World would be more simple place if people would be more opened lol

[rainbowsandroses]

2 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

So I waited few days to see if she would contact me to at least ask how have Ive been. And when she didnt I did a sensible thing and wished her luck(I dont like just ghosting people) and said that I dont want to continue when its clear she is "Meh". Anyway, you know what she says? "OMG, I wanted to send the same message to you, I was wondering why you didnt message etc".

Bolded, what this tells me Kwothe28 was that she expected you to "chase" her. 

Many women have become conditioned to believe that men (generally speaking) are attracted to mystery and/or that men "should" do all the pursuing (to prove interest and yes I've heard women admit to this) even when those same women are behaving in a disinterested or elusive way.

I used to believe this myself!  Past tense.  

And what's sad is that many men will and do chase them!  As such they continue with the same elusive behavior (even when interested) believing this is what attracts men. 

So when a man like you comes along and requires her to be an equal participant or put forth at least some effort, it throws her off.

Hence her response to you as she did. 

Good on you for standing your ground @Kwothe28. 

Just my take. 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

I am so glad I dated before texting and I didn't have a cell phone until I was very pregnant and married. I did have AIM and I had a Blackberry with email.  I liked to  get to know someone like unwrapping a multilayered package and I wasn't interested in messaging back and forth in the beginning.  I liked talking by phone once or twice a week as long as we had  the next date planned -most of the time he asked in the beginning -first couple dates at least. That was more of the "mystery" part -if he wanted to get to know me he had to see me in person and ask me out in advance whether a fancy date or totally low key. 

Getting to know someone over a longer period of time is what worked best for me -seeing each other once or twice a week and later when email was a thing exchanging some fun emails. 

To me the texting all day creates a false sense of intimacy and risks boredom like old married couple boredom LOL.  To me asking someone out on a date isn't chasing.  I showed interest in other ways.  Including by being enthusiastic about saying yes to dates, showing appreciation, and if he mentioned a CD he was thinking of getting maybe I'd get it for him and give it to him on the next date.  

I would have only responded like Jazz's person did if I was truly on the fence and was trying to buy time to think about whether to see the person again. I'd never have responded like that if I truly was interested in seeing the person again.  

 

[yogacat]

1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

I dunno, probably first. If I hadnt shoot the message, I dont believe she ever would. I remembered her because she put something on FB yesterday. We didnt block each other so I still see when she posts something here and there. She married last year I think. 😆

 

Yeah, but she didnt. And I do get it, maybe she has other options so she is more "forthcoming" about them. But she still liked jazz because they did kiss. And still was so "meh" that she wouldnt express genuine interest other than asking a few questions here and there. That is confusing for us men. And not just men because I can imagine some men do that to women too. World would be more simple place if people would be more opened lol

Those are good points.

Oh if it's the first it's kind of like she was saying, "oh, I was going to pull the plug first" which is def just to save face lol. 

Glad you had that closure though, it sounds like!

I know I'd personally appreciate direct feedback from a guy because it's too tricky to discern sometimes because every person is different. I dated one man for several weeks and he called and text a lot, and he didn't ask me out again (after we had been on four dates) and I became frustrated and sent him basically a dear john message saying it's not working out. I felt like I was being kept in limbo. He mentioned a date like a month away from the last time we saw each other!

With Jazz, she could have been attracted to him physically but not much interested to continue with him romantically.

But I see your point that a physical and not to mention that spending several hours means you had some desire for the other person. So her communication wasn't in line with her behavior. 

[Morello]

I agree with all the others that this woman's behaviour could have been better, but I think this is a bit too much butthurt for only two dates. Maybe you are giving off this energy of a bit of desperation and investing yourself emotionally too much and too early. Sorry to be blunt; I have been in this situation before and can relate to it.