Married with a Dead Bedroom, what's next?

[AuthenticSelf]

15 minutes ago, YankeeMan1982 said:

I think knowing the 'why' is the most important thing. It could all get better tomorrow and I'd still wonder about why it happened in the first place. I can't say I'm owed sex, but I do think if it's withheld or otherwise an issue, I deserve an explanation. 

OK, so you want to know the 'why' it happened in the first place. Look like it is fairly clear now. 

What will you find easier to do once you are able to explore that 'why'?

[YankeeMan1982]

7 minutes ago, AuthenticSelf said:

OK, so you want to know the 'why' it happened in the first place. Look like it is fairly clear now. 

What will you find easier to do once you are able to explore that 'why'?

Either learn to cope with it, work on making it better, or leaving I guess. If it's some sort of medical or physical thing, then coping is probably the path. If it's something I've done or am not doing, okay, I'll work on making it better, and if it's that she never loved me but saw me as someone 'safe' to have a family with, then I'd either cope or leave. 

[AuthenticSelf]

6 minutes ago, YankeeMan1982 said:

Either learn to cope with it, work on making it better, or leaving I guess. If it's some sort of medical or physical thing, then coping is probably the path. If it's something I've done or am not doing, okay, I'll work on making it better, and if it's that she never loved me but saw me as someone 'safe' to have a family with, then I'd either cope or leave. 

OK! Just in case I may get it wrong, but all I would like to do is coping with it. 

Where are you currently at in relation to be able to cope with this situation?

 

[lostandhurt]

Okay right off you shouldn't even being talking about learning to cope with it.  I assume your wife loves you although it seems she isn't in love with you by the way she treats you outside of the bedroom.  You do not have to settle or cope because intimacy is important in a relationship no matter what anyone says.

 Here is one thing you  haven't considered.  Your children imprint on what a healthy relationship is like from being in your home.  The day to day, month after month and year after year of them seeing your wife treat you like a roommate will skew their view of what a relationship is supposed to be like.

 This is beyond date nights, flowers, cute notes and any of that superficial stuff unfortunately. You are right on the money wanting to get into couples counseling.  The first thing they will ask you is what the problems are and what you want to get out of counseling.  Can you answer those questions?

 You are not wrong to want to be intimate with your wife, you are not wrong to want to feel desired and loved, you are not wrong to want to try and make your relationship better. This is not normal or healthy.

The part that gets me is your wife bringing up past sexual partners to you and singing their praises.  That is hurtful and cruel.

 Is there a possibility she is cheating?  Many female cheaters feel like they are cheating on their bf by having sex with their own husband so they avoid it as much as possible.  I know I know she would never cheat, I thought the same thing of my wife of 20 years too...

Your best bet is to find a counselor and meet one on one just to get your head straight on what you want for the rest of your life and then let her know you have been seeing a counselor and invite her to join you for a couples session. She will ask you why and your answer should be blunt and to the point. "I love you and I don't want OUR marriage to continue to deteriorate any further so I sought out help" Of course she will say there is nothing wrong with the marriage blah blah blah but don't fall for it.  Stick to your guns and ask her to go with you again.  If she refuses simply walk away without saying anything and let her wonder what you are going to do.

 Both people have to admit there is a problem BEFORE a solution can be achieved.  If she thinks everything is fine then the counseling will help you deal with the ultimate end of your marriage.   

Keep posting, it helps to write this stuff out.  It makes it real and tangible.

Lost

[ShySoul]

3 hours ago, YankeeMan1982 said:

1) I can't say what I did when we dated. I mean, our lives were simpler in that we didn't have any kids, but we also both worked. We certainly went on a lot of dates, but we also spent a lot time together just hanging out or watching movies. 

Doesn't have to be anything specific. I mean, recreating something would be nice, like a flashback to a simpler time that could remind her of what she felt back then. But the important thing is finding something she enjoys that will take her away from the stress and give her time to unwind and relax. Focus on pleasing her outside the bedroom and getting the heart roaring for you again. If she senses that fire between you again, it can help heat up other aspects.

 

[MissCanuck]

11 hours ago, YankeeMan1982 said:

As soon as I proposed, she suggested not having sex until the honeymoon.

Why? That's just weird and should have been your red flag that something was off. For a couple with an already active sex life, waiting until the honeymoon to do it again strikes me as "phew, now that I have the ring, I don't need to have sex with him for a while"-move. Not a romantic, "let's-make-honeymoon-sex-explosive" move. 

11 hours ago, YankeeMan1982 said:

The wrinkle is that she’ll often refer positively to her time with previous sexual partners.

Why is she even bringing this up at all?

That's completely inconsiderate and disrespectful of her. 

I hate to say it, but I think your wife sees you as more of a friend and companion than an actual romantic partner. It seems it's been that way even since before you got married. I don't think trying out sexy ideas to spice it up or changing things around at home is going to move the dial, simply because her organic desire for you has been minimal nearly from the get-go. She can't manufacture something that's not there, just as you can't turn off the desire for a healthy sex life. 

 

[Coily]

21 hours ago, YankeeMan1982 said:

I've brought it up several times of the years, but it usually leads to a fight, not a productive conversation. I probably more to blame for that than she is though. 

No, you are not to blame. Full STOP.

There is something fundamentally flawed in your marriage, and you are taking the burden of this all on yourself. Unfairly, I would say. It' takes two to make a marriage, but only takes one to break it.

Couples counseling is about the only hope you have left, for you therapy will help give you the tools to address the problems and try to bring your wife to the table. If she is unwilling, or hiding behind the kids*, nothing will change but your growing resentment.

 

* I've seen that tactic used as an excuse to avoid having productive conversations. 

[redswim30]

16 hours ago, YankeeMan1982 said:

 

Regarding your question - if we didn't have kids - I'm don't know that I'd still be in the marriage, but kids are for sure a factor in staying in it. But I also love my wife, which I think makes leaving or cheating or opening the marriage no-gos for me. But the building resentment is in some ways equally damaging

It's important to think about this, though.   If the kids are the only thing binding you, then when they leave the nest your marriage may be over- this happens a lot when ppl on stay together "for the kids"- when the kids leave they realize they have nothing holding them together anymore.  

Building resentment is incredibly damaging.  And can be far more damaging than cheating or anything else. It chips away at your love little by little. 

Again, try doing stuff intentionally away from the kids.  That way not only does she get a break- she also does not have anything else distracting her or any excuse to not be able to focus on the two of you.  This needs to happen ASAP- it will really give you a clearer idea on if she really is just stressed/overwhelmed/needs a break OR if she has become disinterested in sex or romance with you in general.   If that IS the case, to counseling- STAT! 

[catfeeder]

12 hours ago, MissCanuck said:

...For a couple with an already active sex life, waiting until the honeymoon to do it again strikes me as "phew, now that I have the ring, I don't need to have sex with him for a while"-move. Not a romantic, "let's-make-honeymoon-sex-explosive" move. 

That's my thinking, too.

Quote

...I hate to say it, but I think your wife sees you as more of a friend and companion than an actual romantic partner. It seems it's been that way even since before you got married.

Yes, it's not as though this was a recent change. The first thing to pinpoint when an active sex life suddenly goes stale is what other changes happened outside of the bedroom at exactly this time? Well, she got the engagement ring. Your 'active' sex life from that point forward was done.

Quote

I don't think trying out sexy ideas to spice it up or changing things around at home is going to move the dial, simply because her organic desire for you has been minimal nearly from the get-go. She can't manufacture something that's not there, just as you can't turn off the desire for a healthy sex life. 

Yep. This is exactly where I'd start with a marriage counselor, and my goal would be to learn or confirm whether a satisfying sex life would ever even be possible with wife. The two of you will need to negotiate, realistically, whether this is a marriage where you want to remain, or not. If so, how will you navigate it going forward? If not, what are the best ways (beyond getting legal advice) to separate and co-parent?

[rainbowsandroses]

12 hours ago, MissCanuck said:

I hate to say it, but I think your wife sees you as more of a friend and companion than an actual romantic partner. It seems it's been that way even since before you got married.

I had missed this^^ until @catfeederquoted it but I agree.

It's possible she's simply no longer (or never truly was) attracted to you.  Physically, sexually, romantically.

She did what she had to do to get the ring, once she got that, sex was no longer necessary and fell to the wayside. 

People marry for all sorts of reasons, I won't get into all of them but sadly it's not all that uncommon.

 

 

[Cherylyn]

My thoughts: 

How about life outside the bedroom?  Do you have date days or nights?  Being with 4 kids can be chaotic and stifling.  😠  What do you two do for fun?  Any outings?  Walks,  picnics,  movies,  theater,  social life with other couples or friends,  restaurant dates,  vacations,  museums,  tours,  perhaps enroll in an enjoyable class together,  hobbies or whatever? 

Do you surprise her with random gifts or something useful which she would want?  🎁

Perhaps she's bored and stuck in a rut.  😒 While helping her with household chores and kids is great,  do more for her so she will feel extra special and not taken for granted.  She should do the same for you as well.  It works both ways. 

Get out of doing the mundane and add spark to your marriage.  See where it takes you.  🤞 

[ShySoul]

On 8/28/2024 at 12:55 PM, YankeeMan1982 said:

Lately it’s gotten so clearly obligatory and rushed that it's tough to enjoy for either of us...

As far as I can tell, my wife enjoys it when we have sex.

Which is it? Is she enjoying it or is it a chore to get through for her?

Or does she enjoy it, just not when it feels like an obligation and something she needs to do to please you when she is too tired and burned out from other things?

If you think she does enjoy it (or has been for most of your relationship), then it's probably more stress and pressure depressing the sex drive then her not being interested in you.

And choosing to pause sex while planning the wedding can be a good idea depending on the couple:

https://www.glamour.com/story/sex-before-wedding

[yogacat]

On 8/28/2024 at 7:50 PM, YankeeMan1982 said:

Either learn to cope with it, work on making it better, or leaving I guess. If it's some sort of medical or physical thing, then coping is probably the path. If it's something I've done or am not doing, okay, I'll work on making it better, and if it's that she never loved me but saw me as someone 'safe' to have a family with, then I'd either cope or leave. 

You wouldn't be the first person to stay in a marriage with a dead bedroom.

But that's not a requirement; that's just a choice people make.

Is this the model of the type of relationship you want to teach your children? I guess that's what makes people ask, "What are you teaching your children?" I'm asking, is this what you want to teach them...?

In one breath, I think it is commendable that you want to work this out and have a fair and respectful relationship. But then there's that elephant in the room: you seem to be emotionally disconnected from her, which means she is from you. In addition, it also means she is not IN Love with you; you're just someone she loves and feels comfortable with enough to be married to.

 

[Kampuniform3]

Yes, my advice would be to recognize that you’re in the meat and two veg stage of your relationship.

You’re now in the companionate stage of your time together, which is entirely normal, and is to be expected after 16 years, and four children.

Passion is only a short-term facet of any relationship, as the psychophysiological state cannot be sustained indefinitely.
 

Many people seem to use their early relational escalation stage levels of passion as a reference point, thinking that something has gone terribly wrong when it falls below that mark.
 

Additionally, everyone uses the consummate love example as the normative standard for relational health, where intimacy, romance, etc., all appear miraculously like wine at the Wedding at Cana. 

I’d say that’s it great to have lofty goals in life, but making wine from water is entirely a miraculous achievement. 
 

Having a successful long-term relationship is predicated on accepting one concept: You can never go home again.
 

“You can't go back home to your family, back home to your childhood, back home to romantic love, back home to a young man's dreams of glory and of fame, back home to exile,… back home to places in the country, away from all the strife and conflict of the world, back home to the father you have lost and have been looking for, back home to someone who can help you, save you, ease the burden for you, back home to the old forms and systems of things which once seemed everlasting but which are changing all the time--back home to the escapes of Time and Memory.”  Thomas Wolfe