Married with a Dead Bedroom, what's next?

[YankeeMan1982]

My wife (42F) and I (42M) have been married for 16 years and have four children (14F, 12F, 9F, 6M). We dated for a little over year before we got engaged, and were engaged for a few months. We have a busy and generally happy life, but with a huge issue hanging over everything. 

Our bedroom is dead. At this point, we have sex about once every two months. I stopped initiating years ago. I get pity sex on my birthday and other occasional random times. Lately it’s gotten so clearly obligatory and rushed that it's tough to enjoy for either of us. 

When we were dating, we had sex often, multiple times a week. As soon as I proposed, she suggested not having sex until the honeymoon. I’ve heard that suggested, so I said okay. It’s basically been minimal since then.

The wrinkle is that she’ll often refer positively to her time with previous sexual partners. I’m not sure what to make of it, but that adds a lot of bitterness to the situation in my end.

It’s clear that I need some therapy to cope, but wonder the best way to address it with her. Often when I mention it she dismisses it as something all married men gripe about.

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? Any wisdom to share?

Before anyone posts, based on some responses in other places, here are some answers in advance: 

1) Yes, I know four kids is a lot and it's not unusual for one-on-one time of any kind to decline when you have kids; this began before we had kids. 

2) Yes, I've brought it up before, and each time there is a commitment that things improve but they never do. 

3) As far as I can tell, my wife enjoys it when we have sex. And no, I don't make it all about me. Even if I was guilty about that in the past (which I don't feel like I was), I've certainly made it the primary focus of any activity now, as I want my wife to enjoy it as much as possible. She's beautiful and I love her, so I'm not acting like this is some tortuous chore on my part...

4) Yes, I help with the kids; my wife is a stay at home mom, but my job is flexible and I'm able to step in where needed. Also, I work in an office and spend a lot of the day in meetings or behind a desk. It's a relief to chip in with stuff at home (cooking, laundry, taking and picking up kids) after a day like that. 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

[AuthenticSelf]

What results do you expect from therapy?

 

[YankeeMan1982]

Great question - I guess I'm hoping for a productive way to approach it with my spouse, some ways to determine my own culpability in this situation, some good coping skills, advice from an objective source, etc. Sort of the usual things I guess. 

[AuthenticSelf]

So productive way to approach it, some way to determine your own culpability, coping skill.

What behaviors or changes do you want to see to know the therapy is successful?

[YankeeMan1982]

Great question! Obviously on a base level I'd like a normal sex life to be restored, but more than that it's wanting to known why things turned out this way from my wife's perspective, and more than that is this: the loss of a sexual relationship led (in this case) to erosion of the spousal relationship as well. Even if I can't get the clarity or the improvements, I guess I'd like to know what my options are as a way to cope with this. I'm afraid that isn't sustainable but doing it on my own isn't either. Recently it's become too much to carry, and it's impacting my performance as a husband, father and professional. 

[rainbowsandroses]

I was married less than a year so what do I know lol BUT I'm wondering how does she feel?

Have you discussed it? 

I think in a long term marriage, especially with kids, things can become hum-drum and sadly sex falls to the wayside.

When that happens, both people have to be willing to make the effort to keep sex fresh and exciting. 

Get creative!

Get on youtube and learn the art of sensual and erotic massage!  There are tons of tutorials, some quite graphic. 

Trust me, 15 minutes in she be begging you to **** her! 😂  Leading to what may be the best sex you've ever had together.

Hire a professional photographer and have some sexy photos taken together.    The photographer will guide you. 

It's sexy and fun!  

You could see a couples sex therapist although that's quite clinical and not very sexy.

But he/she will give you "teasing" exercises that will sexually stimulate both of you.

Just a few suggestions; the main thing is you both have to want it to improve and you both need to make the effort.  

 

 

[YankeeMan1982]

I've brought it up several times of the years, but it usually leads to a fight, not a productive conversation. I probably more to blame for that than she is though. 

I've mentioned doing things to 'spice up' our sex life - it's very vanilla, but I'm certainly not bored with it. But the response has been largely negative. 

[rainbowsandroses]

17 minutes ago, YankeeMan1982 said:

I've brought it up several times of the years, but it usually leads to a fight, not a productive conversation. I probably more to blame for that than she is though. 

I've mentioned doing things to 'spice up' our sex life - it's very vanilla, but I'm certainly not bored with it. But the response has been largely negative. 

I edited my post adding a paragraph at the end. 

If SHE isn't willing to even try and fights with you when you mention trying something new and creative, I honestly don't know what to tell ya except imo your marriage in general may be in trouble and unless she's open to marital counseling, either resign yourself to a dead bedroom or split up. 

Sorry man, I wish I could be more positive but I think sexual intimacy is HUGELY important in any long term relationship or marriage which often requires BOTH people wanting to keep it fresh and exciting and both people making effort.

[rainbowsandroses]

4 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Stop giving it to her for awhile and she'll be begging for it 🤪

Yoga, he posted he's already stopped initiating and still.... nothing. 

[yogacat]

4 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Yoga, he posted he's already stopped initiating and still.... nothing. 

I KNOW, lol, I hid my post afterwards. 😅

[redswim30]

41 minutes ago, YankeeMan1982 said:

My wife (42F) and I (42M) have been married for 16 years and have four children (14F, 12F, 9F, 6M). We dated for a little over year before we got engaged, and were engaged for a few months. We have a busy and generally happy life, but with a huge issue hanging over everything. 

Our bedroom is dead. At this point, we have sex about once every two months. I stopped initiating years ago. I get pity sex on my birthday and other occasional random times. Lately it’s gotten so clearly obligatory and rushed that it's tough to enjoy for either of us. 

When we were dating, we had sex often, multiple times a week. As soon as I proposed, she suggested not having sex until the honeymoon. I’ve heard that suggested, so I said okay. It’s basically been minimal since then.

The wrinkle is that she’ll often refer positively to her time with previous sexual partners. I’m not sure what to make of it, but that adds a lot of bitterness to the situation in my end.

It’s clear that I need some therapy to cope, but wonder the best way to address it with her. Often when I mention it she dismisses it as something all married men gripe about.

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? Any wisdom to share?

Before anyone posts, based on some responses in other places, here are some answers in advance: 

1) Yes, I know four kids is a lot and it's not unusual for one-on-one time of any kind to decline when you have kids; this began before we had kids. 

2) Yes, I've brought it up before, and each time there is a commitment that things improve but they never do. 

3) As far as I can tell, my wife enjoys it when we have sex. And no, I don't make it all about me. Even if I was guilty about that in the past (which I don't feel like I was), I've certainly made it the primary focus of any activity now, as I want my wife to enjoy it as much as possible. She's beautiful and I love her, so I'm not acting like this is some tortuous chore on my part...

4) Yes, I help with the kids; my wife is a stay at home mom, but my job is flexible and I'm able to step in where needed. Also, I work in an office and spend a lot of the day in meetings or behind a desk. It's a relief to chip in with stuff at home (cooking, laundry, taking and picking up kids) after a day like that. 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

Ok, I see some huge issues here. 

You're awfully young to be having these issues.   It sounds like your wife is simply not interested in sex and instead of being honest about that, she is making it sound like YOU are weird for wanting to have sex with her (you aren't).  BTW, it is NOT something "all married men" gripe about- my husband and I have been married 15 years and still have fantastic sex 4 or more times a week- and we're older than you. 

One of two things is happening here.  Either your wife is having some issues that she needs to work on or else you are just sexually incompatible.  No matter the case, this is a huge issue because she's unwilling to even examine this and you are feeling resentful.   If you aren't careful this will either lead to you staying out of complacency, setting you up with the high potential of having an affair or else just growing completely resentful and going through the motions and/or eventually get divorced once the kids leave. 

Let me ask you this- If you did not have kids right now, would you still want to be married to her? 

I think this is the first question you need to answer.  

If you want to save your marriage, here's what I suggest.   Start planning to have sitters- and make romantic couples time at LEAST once a week.  Plan sexy surprises for your wife.   Plan a weekend away without the kids.  See if any of these can reiginite the spark or passion. 

If the above doesn't work, you need to start couples counseling.  Your wife needs to be aware that this is a serious issue that is eroding your marriage and your relationship.  Ignoring it won't help.  

Sadly, I have seen this kind of thing happen a lot with friends, neighbors and relatives.   Women (sometimes men, but more often women) completely ignore their partner's sexual needs or use sex as a weapon by withholding or even mocking their partner for desiring normal marital relations .  When eventually the neglected person cracks or out of desperation sleeps with someone else- their spouse is THEN regretful.  I'm not saying this is right, but people are human.  This needs to be addressed before this happens or if you do nothing and become that couple that divorces once the kids are all in college. 

But make no mistake, this is a serious issue that must be addressed.  Nothing will magically get better by ignoring it. 

[yogacat]

I don't know. Usually when I didn't desire my guy, and usually it's been the male that has wanted it more than I did, him backing off for a bit brought my attraction back more sharply, wanting close time and more intimacy. 

But you've already said that you don't initiate it any more. Most of us naturally desire what or who we can't have so that may or may not work for you.

I honestly don't believe that this will change unless both of you do something. If she does not think it's an issue or if she is unwilling to put in the effort, things are likely to remain as they are.

[ShySoul]

Sex isn't just about what happens in the bedroom. It's about all the foreplay that happens beforehand, often having nothing to do with the act itself.

Sex isn't just about the physical act. It's about the romance, longing, and desire you build and create together everyday.

And sex isn't about what you want, it's about what the other person wants, what puts them in the mood.

So look at her and who she is. When things were more frequent, what was it that caused her to want it? Were there certain acts or moments that turned her on? DId you heat up the romance portion which lead to the bedroom? And are you doing those things now?

Seems like there are a lot of pressures and responsibilites on both of you. She is caring for a six month old, which means her life is not her life. That's even without adding in the other three. Even with you pitching in, it's still exhausting. Bringing it up probably comes across as insensitive, even if its not the intent. Likewise suggestions on spicing it up comes across as you stressing the need for sex, when it probably is the last thing on her mind. She's probably thinking, when can I get a good nights sleep. 

So rather then focus on sex, focus on her. Do things around the house to lighten her load, as you seem to be doing. Try to arrange for just one on one time, leaving the children with relatives or friends. Then reconnect as people, as a couple. Appreciate and enjoy the moments together. Find the love you have for each other and celebrate that. Eventually it can reignite the spark in her and that passion you inspire in her heart can flow over to the bedroom.

Just my experience, but if you touch the heart first, the body follows.

[Andrina]

I'm just wondering, to get a bigger picture. Does she ever express any affection, like stroking your arm or play with your hair while watching TV? Does she ever give you a warm bear hug, not just a short, perfunctory one?

Have you ever asked her if there's anything she wants improved in the relationship? Sometimes a good question to ask is, "When do you feel most loved by me?" Sometimes a person can be surprised by the answer. If they hem and haw, ask, "What would make you feel most loved by me?"

Does she take good care of you when you're sick? Does she ever do things to please you, like taking enjoyment in cooking your favorite meal or baking your favorite dessert?

Do you two hang out with any other couples or have group friends? 

If you two lack giving each other affection apart from when being intimate, I suggest you begin making effort in that area without it leading to sex. You can take turns giving each other foot or back rubs while watching a favorite TV show, or while listening to music while settling down in bed before going to sleep.

As another poster said, show her the seriousness of the matter by suggesting marriage counseling, and if she refuses, go yourself. If that's not a wake up call that will scare her, then maybe she doesn't care enough to save the marriage. I hope she can come to care about your needs which are reasonable. A divorce with 4 kids would be quite difficult, especially as she doesn't work. With all the kids now in elementary school, is there a reason she doesn't work during school hours, even part time?

[AuthenticSelf]

1 hour ago, YankeeMan1982 said:

Great question! Obviously on a base level I'd like a normal sex life to be restored, but more than that it's wanting to known why things turned out this way from my wife's perspective, and more than that is this: the loss of a sexual relationship led (in this case) to erosion of the spousal relationship as well. Even if I can't get the clarity or the improvements, I guess I'd like to know what my options are as a way to cope with this. I'm afraid that isn't sustainable but doing it on my own isn't either. Recently it's become too much to carry, and it's impacting my performance as a husband, father and professional. 

OK, so you want normal sex life to be restored, why things turned out this way from your wife's perspective, and the lost of sexual relationship led to erosion of spousal relationship. 

If these are things you need clarity or improvement to cope with, which one is the one you would like to mostly focus on? 

[smackie9]

Ever discuss opening up the relationship? Even if it's just dates, no outside sex to feel desired, give a boost. 

[itsallgrand]

So you've been married 16 years and the intimacy has been lacking for longer than that? And you added 4 kids and her as a dependent to the mix? 

It really sounds like you are her doormat who gave her marriage, financial security to raise 4 kids, and she gives you disrespect and is not being honest with you. Even if this were a medical issue on her part, that's something you should have been told about by now and talked about as a couple. I doubt it is as simple as that though when she gives you sexist dismissal "oh all married men complain about not enough sex". 

Honestly my thoughts are it seems like a bait n switch. She let you think she was more sexual than she is to get the ring and the lifestyle. She's crude to mention her past partners and the sex, which further cements to me....she just doesn't care about the relationship much beyond what it gets her. 

Maybe I'm totally wrong but to me the backbone of a good relationship is respect and communication. She's giving you neither, so what do you get out of this? 

Therapy for you is a good idea if only to find out why you've chosen this over and over for 16 years? Do you not feel worth a partner who is straight up with you and cherishes you? 

[YankeeMan1982]

5 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I edited my post adding a paragraph at the end. 

If SHE isn't willing to even try and fights with you when you mention trying something new and creative, I honestly don't know what to tell ya except imo your marriage in general may be in trouble and unless she's open to marital counseling, either resign yourself to a dead bedroom or split up. 

Sorry man, I wish I could be more positive but I think sexual intimacy is HUGELY important in any long term relationship or marriage which often requires BOTH people wanting to keep it fresh and exciting and both people making effort.

I agree on the intimacy part - again, the decline in the sex has precipitated a general decline in intimacy of all kinds. I think marital counseling is for sure the way to go!

[YankeeMan1982]

5 hours ago, redswim30 said:

Ok, I see some huge issues here. 

You're awfully young to be having these issues.   It sounds like your wife is simply not interested in sex and instead of being honest about that, she is making it sound like YOU are weird for wanting to have sex with her (you aren't).  BTW, it is NOT something "all married men" gripe about- my husband and I have been married 15 years and still have fantastic sex 4 or more times a week- and we're older than you. 

One of two things is happening here.  Either your wife is having some issues that she needs to work on or else you are just sexually incompatible.  No matter the case, this is a huge issue because she's unwilling to even examine this and you are feeling resentful.   If you aren't careful this will either lead to you staying out of complacency, setting you up with the high potential of having an affair or else just growing completely resentful and going through the motions and/or eventually get divorced once the kids leave. 

Let me ask you this- If you did not have kids right now, would you still want to be married to her? 

I think this is the first question you need to answer.  

If you want to save your marriage, here's what I suggest.   Start planning to have sitters- and make romantic couples time at LEAST once a week.  Plan sexy surprises for your wife.   Plan a weekend away without the kids.  See if any of these can reiginite the spark or passion. 

If the above doesn't work, you need to start couples counseling.  Your wife needs to be aware that this is a serious issue that is eroding your marriage and your relationship.  Ignoring it won't help.  

Sadly, I have seen this kind of thing happen a lot with friends, neighbors and relatives.   Women (sometimes men, but more often women) completely ignore their partner's sexual needs or use sex as a weapon by withholding or even mocking their partner for desiring normal marital relations .  When eventually the neglected person cracks or out of desperation sleeps with someone else- their spouse is THEN regretful.  I'm not saying this is right, but people are human.  This needs to be addressed before this happens or if you do nothing and become that couple that divorces once the kids are all in college. 

But make no mistake, this is a serious issue that must be addressed.  Nothing will magically get better by ignoring it. 

 I've certainly tried to talk about it some, and as I've said in a previous comment, I probably didn't do it in the most productive manner. That's why I'm inclined towards counseling.

I can see what you and others mean on the date night part - she could always use some time away, especially if it's just for a meal. 

Regarding your question - if we didn't have kids - I'm don't know that I'd still be in the marriage, but kids are for sure a factor in staying in it. But I also love my wife, which I think makes leaving or cheating or opening the marriage no-gos for me. But the building resentment is in some ways equally damaging

[YankeeMan1982]

5 hours ago, yogacat said:

I don't know. Usually when I didn't desire my guy, and usually it's been the male that has wanted it more than I did, him backing off for a bit brought my attraction back more sharply, wanting close time and more intimacy. 

But you've already said that you don't initiate it any more. Most of us naturally desire what or who we can't have so that may or may not work for you.

I honestly don't believe that this will change unless both of you do something. If she does not think it's an issue or if she is unwilling to put in the effort, things are likely to remain as they are.

I've thought about that strategy, but it hasn't worked so far. She is the one who initiates now, and it's generally associated with a 'big' occasion like my birthday or our anniversary - I can't say how she'd feel if I said no when she initiated, but I also doubt my ability to 'be strong' given how rare it is!

[YankeeMan1982]

4 hours ago, ShySoul said:

Sex isn't just about what happens in the bedroom. It's about all the foreplay that happens beforehand, often having nothing to do with the act itself.

Sex isn't just about the physical act. It's about the romance, longing, and desire you build and create together everyday.

And sex isn't about what you want, it's about what the other person wants, what puts them in the mood.

So look at her and who she is. When things were more frequent, what was it that caused her to want it? Were there certain acts or moments that turned her on? DId you heat up the romance portion which lead to the bedroom? And are you doing those things now?

Seems like there are a lot of pressures and responsibilites on both of you. She is caring for a six month old, which means her life is not her life. That's even without adding in the other three. Even with you pitching in, it's still exhausting. Bringing it up probably comes across as insensitive, even if its not the intent. Likewise suggestions on spicing it up comes across as you stressing the need for sex, when it probably is the last thing on her mind. She's probably thinking, when can I get a good nights sleep. 

So rather then focus on sex, focus on her. Do things around the house to lighten her load, as you seem to be doing. Try to arrange for just one on one time, leaving the children with relatives or friends. Then reconnect as people, as a couple. Appreciate and enjoy the moments together. Find the love you have for each other and celebrate that. Eventually it can reignite the spark in her and that passion you inspire in her heart can flow over to the bedroom.

Just my experience, but if you touch the heart first, the body follows.

I think this is good advice - my only counters would be:

1) I can't say what I did when we dated. I mean, our lives were simpler in that we didn't have any kids, but we also both worked. We certainly went on a lot of dates, but we also spent a lot time together just hanging out or watching movies. 

2) Kids and chores - not that it matters much, but he's 6 years old not 6 months (the way I wrote it was confusing, sorry!) - but the kids take up a lot of time, but I think it's something that we both enjoy, even when it's not stressful. I help around the house a ton, especially in the mornings and evenings, and try to anticipate anything I can do to lighten the burden. 

 

What you said about about intent and timing was spot on. Even if she's 'in the wrong' on some, or even a lot of this, it doesn't change that she's tired and that my sense of timing is not always great. 

[YankeeMan1982]

4 hours ago, Andrina said:

I'm just wondering, to get a bigger picture. Does she ever express any affection, like stroking your arm or play with your hair while watching TV? Does she ever give you a warm bear hug, not just a short, perfunctory one?

Have you ever asked her if there's anything she wants improved in the relationship? Sometimes a good question to ask is, "When do you feel most loved by me?" Sometimes a person can be surprised by the answer. If they hem and haw, ask, "What would make you feel most loved by me?"

Does she take good care of you when you're sick? Does she ever do things to please you, like taking enjoyment in cooking your favorite meal or baking your favorite dessert?

Do you two hang out with any other couples or have group friends? 

If you two lack giving each other affection apart from when being intimate, I suggest you begin making effort in that area without it leading to sex. You can take turns giving each other foot or back rubs while watching a favorite TV show, or while listening to music while settling down in bed before going to sleep.

As another poster said, show her the seriousness of the matter by suggesting marriage counseling, and if she refuses, go yourself. If that's not a wake up call that will scare her, then maybe she doesn't care enough to save the marriage. I hope she can come to care about your needs which are reasonable. A divorce with 4 kids would be quite difficult, especially as she doesn't work. With all the kids now in elementary school, is there a reason she doesn't work during school hours, even part time?

These are great thoughts - I think I probably gave up on some of that due to frustration, and it never hurts to be kind to your spouse, even if you're mad at them!

No, she does not touch me in any kind of casual or affectionate way. I think that is part of what hurts the most about this. It leads me down some pretty tough roads mentally, and has left me feeling like she settled for me. That doesn't help with my general mood much, and for some reason, my sadness or moodiness about it has gotten way worse in the last few weeks, though I can't say specifically what triggered it. 

As far as her not working, now that the kids are in school, I've always said that she can go back if she wants to. She's a nurse, which is a great job, especially these days. But the combination of the COVID deal and her just getting used to being at home makes that unlikely. 

[YankeeMan1982]

4 hours ago, AuthenticSelf said:

OK, so you want normal sex life to be restored, why things turned out this way from your wife's perspective, and the lost of sexual relationship led to erosion of spousal relationship. 

If these are things you need clarity or improvement to cope with, which one is the one you would like to mostly focus on? 

I think knowing the 'why' is the most important thing. It could all get better tomorrow and I'd still wonder about why it happened in the first place. I can't say I'm owed sex, but I do think if it's withheld or otherwise an issue, I deserve an explanation. 

[YankeeMan1982]

3 hours ago, smackie9 said:

Ever discuss opening up the relationship? Even if it's just dates, no outside sex to feel desired, give a boost. 

No and I know that would not be well-received. I also wouldn't go for it if she suggested it. I'd be hugely jealous, and like most of these situations, opening things up would work more in her favor than mine!

[YankeeMan1982]

2 hours ago, itsallgrand said:

So you've been married 16 years and the intimacy has been lacking for longer than that? And you added 4 kids and her as a dependent to the mix? 

It really sounds like you are her doormat who gave her marriage, financial security to raise 4 kids, and she gives you disrespect and is not being honest with you. Even if this were a medical issue on her part, that's something you should have been told about by now and talked about as a couple. I doubt it is as simple as that though when she gives you sexist dismissal "oh all married men complain about not enough sex". 

Honestly my thoughts are it seems like a bait n switch. She let you think she was more sexual than she is to get the ring and the lifestyle. She's crude to mention her past partners and the sex, which further cements to me....she just doesn't care about the relationship much beyond what it gets her. 

Maybe I'm totally wrong but to me the backbone of a good relationship is respect and communication. She's giving you neither, so what do you get out of this? 

Therapy for you is a good idea if only to find out why you've chosen this over and over for 16 years? Do you not feel worth a partner who is straight up with you and cherishes you? 

In think that's my darkest fear. When mentioning her past, it's specific to two exes. One was an on-again, off-again deal with a sort of 'bad boy' that went through high school and college, that seemed more focused on sex; the other was sort of a 'one that got away' deal with a close family friend who is very successful but it didn't work out due to his infidelity. Maybe she used me to get past those relationships, but then felt trapped and said yes when I proposed and now resents me because she feels like she settled. I've tried to bring that up but it's hard to get her to engage. 

RE: therapy, that's why I've focused on it for me - even if it doesn't help with the situation, it'd tell me a lot about me, and my culpability here