Cannot understand why she wants a relationship but not intimacy

[ShySoul]

Sex is not necessary. Plenty of couples have happy lives and marriages without it. 

And if you love the person, you will be willing to wait as long as it takes for them to be comfortable and ready for it. You will want it to happen when it's right for both of you, not just when and because you want it.

If you really need it that badly, break up with her now. Don't string her along and put her heart at risk any longer. Respect her enough to let her go.

https://www.yourtango.com/2017302475/4-reasons-sex-least-important-part-relationship

 

[Andrina]

1 hour ago, ShySoul said:

And if you love the person, you will be willing to wait as long as it takes for them to be comfortable and ready for it.

Love doesn't enter the equation at this early stage. It's the vetting process. One has to have his/her own best interests at heart when choosing a partner. When one constantly gives the benefit of the doubt/has all the patience in the world/takes on the role of a therapist, foregoes their own wants for an unknown period, all to a new acquaintance, well, this is what happens: each of those detours keeps delaying/sidetracking the journey so the person never reaches his/her desired destination. 

People who do this might rack up a list of exes, friends, temporary spurts of happiness, but without meeting a goal of having a lifetime companion. There are times where you should put other people before yourself. This isn't one of those instances.

[rainbowsandroses]

@Zeus131313imo this isn't as complicated as it may appear, such topics are often discussed here.

My take is although you get on extremely well, she clearly feels close with you mentally and emotionally and enjoys cuddling, talking for hours, she may even find you attractive physically, she may not and likely IS not "attracted to" you such that she desires to kiss you, be sexually intimate with you.

That special somethin somethin just isn't there for her. 

Kissing you would feel like kissing her close brother and sex with you is simply out of the question for same reason. 

You cannot force attraction which when genuine goes beyond the physical, it's an 'energy' between the BOTH of you, not just you, not just her, but both of you.  Simultaneously.

That's chemistry and in your case it's just not happening, from what you've posted. 

Even if she were averse to sex, there is no reason she would lack the desire to kiss you other than she's simply not attracted enough.

Has nothing to do with your looks, status, professional success, your income, car, etc. 

Don't even try to understand it, you never will, chemistry and attraction are intangible that cannot be described.

It can't be forced or manufactured, it's either happening between two people or it's not.

And for her, it's not. 

That's my read on it and I'm sorry to say if you're seeking both emotional and physical intimacy, she's not the woman for you, I'm sorry. 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

3 hours ago, ShySoul said:

Sex is not necessary. Plenty of couples have happy lives and marriages without it. 

True but physical intimacy IS!  For most healthy couples anyway. 

The desire to kiss your partner is instinctive when we are attracted and is the bare minimum of physical intimacy, and to believe otherwise is simply foolish and living in denial about your relationship.

Cuddling doesn't count because people can cuddle friends, siblings. 

Goodness gracious, if she can't even kiss you after four months, nothing's happening, she's not "feelin it."

It sounds like a glorified friendship and a lovely emotionally intimate companionship.

 

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, Andrina said:

Love doesn't enter the equation at this early stage. It's the vetting process. One has to have his/her own best interests at heart when choosing a partner. When one constantly gives the benefit of the doubt/has all the patience in the world/takes on the role of a therapist, foregoes their own wants for an unknown period, all to a new acquaintance, well, this is what happens: each of those detours keeps delaying/sidetracking the journey so the person never reaches his/her desired destination. 

People who do this might rack up a list of exes, friends, temporary spurts of happiness, but without meeting a goal of having a lifetime companion. There are times where you should put other people before yourself. This isn't one of those instances.

Amen!!

[Coily]

3 hours ago, ShySoul said:

Sex is not necessary.

While it's broadly true, that is not the case for the OP. What comes across is the lack of any physical intimacy in the OP's current situation. Not once did I get the impression he wanted just sex.

As Lost said earlier, this needs be addressed now. Not in September. Couched in terms of "what's the hang up? Help me understand."

An ex of mine didn't want to rush sex, but kissing was fine. It was very intimate and not sexual; but it existed. After 3 months I wasn't getting any communication as to why she wanted to wait; I felt I was left in the dark. It's not a great feeling to wonder at every second what's going on. The absence of communication on general intimacy killed it for me.

[yogacat]

Everything seems perfect and it seems to all there... Except?? (And this is a big metaphorical "except" A wee bit like a jig-saw puzzle that is looking seriously amazing but when you come to put in the last piece there just seems to be "a piece" missing).

Look, it really sounds like you feel very deeply for this woman, and you have a good relationship otherwise, I would ask her a bit more about what being certain means to her, because it might mean something completely different to her romantically than it does for you.  

My ex and I weren't intimate (all the way intimate...) for several months and we would enjoy making out for ages without taking that step.

You don't know at this point though, and one would think there would be a bit more passion if she was, well, feeling those feelings. I know when I feel really passionate about a boyfriend, I am kind of the one making the first moves.

You obviously have something great, she's really into you, the fun the looks to the romantic dinners. You might feel a bit better with more clarification. All the best. 

[ShySoul]

51 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

True but physical intimacy IS!  For most healthy couples anyway. 

The desire to kiss your partner is instinctive when we are attracted and is the bare minimum of physical intimacy, and to believe otherwise is simply foolish and living in denial about your relationship.

Cuddling doesn't count because people can cuddle friends, siblings. 

Goodness gracious, if she can't even kiss you after four months, nothing's happening, she's not "feelin it."

It sounds like a glorified friendship and a lovely emotionally intimate companionship.

The best moments I've ever spent with a woman wasn't kissing. It wasn't sex. It was hugs and cuddles. It was just knowing someone was there for me, someone with who I shared an intense and passionate connection. It was the look in our eyes, simply being in the moment together.

I've also never cuddled a friend or sibling. 

Dancing together, her head on his shoulders as she crys, overwhelmed with how great the moment feels is physical? Being willing to spend all night in a person's arms isn't being physical?

Having an emotionally intimate companionship is something a lot of people crave and would sacrifice a lot for. There are people in sexual relationships who would trade it in for the real intimacy and emotional connection such a glorified friendship would provide.

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

29 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

The best moments I've ever spent with a woman wasn't kissing. It wasn't sex. It was hugs and cuddles.

^^Well you're an anomaly then, because this is not most people's, most couple's reality. 

And in this case, @Zeus131313desires more than that, HE wants (needs) both emotional AND physical affection/intimacy.  Which at the very LEAST entails kissing. 

And I don't think he should be shamed for that and made to feel like some sort of sexual predator because for YOU, your best moments have been cuddling. 

If you disagree that's okay, I can respect that.  We can agree to disagree.  I dont have the energy to go back and forth SS.

[ShySoul]

43 minutes ago, Coily said:

Couched in terms of "what's the hang up? Help me understand."

11 hours ago, Zeus131313 said:

she is a very intense person she has very intense feelings and needs to be certain. 

She already explained. Seems pretty clear to me if you listen to her and take a look at her history.

An abused person who doesn't seem to have fully resolved it. Probably hurt by other relationships and guys who weren't ready to be patient with her. Needs the moment to be right and to know she can trust the person and trust herself. 

She needs time and understanding. She needs someone who will go at her speed, whatever that speed is. She needs to not feel she needs to be doing more for him, as that will just make her more anxious, more scared, and more likely to shut down and do nothing. 

I've waited longer then four months for a kiss. It was worth the wait. And I would have waited far longer, as long as it takes her to be ready. In the end the kiss is only worth it if both people are comfortable and ready for it. If she isn't comfortable yet, continue showing her the same love and affection that is slowly breaking down the walls. Enjoy what you do have. Let her get there when the time is right.

And trust me, when it happens it's better for the wait.

 

[ShySoul]

1 hour ago, Coily said:

What comes across is the lack of any physical intimacy in the OP's current situation.

12 hours ago, Zeus131313 said:

slept on the same bed. We slept cuddling and holding each other

10 hours ago, Zeus131313 said:

once we go to bed we cuddle and hold and she snuggles up to me and hold me tight,

9 hours ago, Zeus131313 said:

She is so affectionate and touchy feely

We were dancing a song I like which she also does and she told me how happy and safe I make her feel and I could feel her tears on my shoulder

If you define physical intimacy as kissing and sex, yes there is none. But there seems to be a lot of physical touch going on.

And cuddling can be intimacy: https://psychcentral.com/relationships/cuddling-and-romance#is-cuddling-a-form-of-intimacy

As for him not being concerned about sex:

8 hours ago, Zeus131313 said:

I am very highly sexed and cannot see myself in a sexless relationship. 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

11 hours ago, Andrina said:

If she agrees but doesn't mention progressing this to kissing, you can say: Kissing is necessary for me to go to a deeper level into a connection with you. If you aren't ready after more than half of a year spent together, this won't work for me.

^^This is a great way of putting it.  And from men I've spoken with including my own long term boyfriends, it's very true. 

Most men DO need physical affection/intimacy (not sex necessarily but an indication of attraction like kissing at the very least) to move closer emotionally and feel connected.

The two go hand in hand. 

@Zeus131313your feelings are valid.  I do agree have one more talk with her as @Andrinasuggested.

Determine what to do, what's best for YOU after that. 

[ShySoul]

3 hours ago, Andrina said:

Love doesn't enter the equation at this early stage.

11 hours ago, Zeus131313 said:

Here lies the issue - I am really in love with her and I think she maybe the one. 

According to Zeus himself (the poster, not the God 😉), love is the issue. Love does factor into it. Love is so much a factor that he is wondering if she is "the one." I'm going to trust him on that.

Everyone is saying it's been too long and there should be more physical contact. If that is the case, then it can't be qualified as early stages. That's playing both sides. Is she a new acquitance who he is just geting to know, which would make a lack of physical intimacy understandable? Or is this a serious relationship upon which sex would play a vital roll? 

And it's not being a therapist. It's showing the person you love (Zeus's own words) respect enough to not do anything or expect anything they aren't comfortable doing.

 

 

[ShySoul]

@Zeus131313 Sorry for the endless debate here. Please know I really do want the best for both you and her. I want both of you to be happy and in a relationship that fulfills you. And I really hope it is with each other.

In my mind it comes down to simple questions you should ask yourself:

What's the stronger drive? Is it the need for kissing/making out/sex? Or is it the need for the closeness you describe having with her? 

If you really need that physical part now and can't wait, then don't be with her. No judgements. It's two people not at the same point in their life, not on the same page. Give yourself the freedom to have what you want, and give her the freedom to have what she needs.

If you really do feel she might be the one, then give her the time and space she needs to do things at her pace. She will respect you for that. She is getting warmer to you. She used to be staying at a hotel alone. Now she's spending several nights in your arms. Things will progress as they should progress. 

Good things come to those who wait. And those good things are pretty mindblowing, made all the better by the prolonged foreplay and anticipation.😉

[Batya33]

I agree with those that often couples wait to have sex but there is clear communication as to why and very often it relates to timing.  I waited months.  I was clear though as to why - the shortest I waited was two months and one time it was a big mistake I regret.  I was clear that I desired sex with the person, I was sexual before having sex, I wanted to wait until we were exclusive,committed, with strong potential for marriage.  Those who didn't want to wait stopped dating me sometimes after trying to "convince" me otherwise.  But it ended early on because often those who didn't wish to wait wouldn't have waited past date 4 or 5 anyway.  Totally fine and I never tried to convince a man to wait. 

It was always a great decision -- for me -- (I realize others make different decisions!) and I wouldn't have gone out with a man past 4 dates or so without sharing a kiss, without being physically affectionate, without showing he desired me in some way - because there was no way I'd get serious with a man where I didn't experience chemistry within the first month or so - a spark, a click that romantic connection. 

My mom who did very little dating before she met and married my dad used to say if the man didn't try to kiss me by the fourth date move on.  (She had one partner in her life -my dad - and they waited till the wedding and dated 5 years before getting married). 

[ShySoul]

2 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

^Well you're an anomaly then, because this is not most people's, most couple's reality. 

And in this case, @Zeus131313desires more than that, HE wants (needs) both emotional AND physical affection/intimacy.  Which at the very LEAST entails kissing. 

And I don't think he should be shamed for that and made to feel like some sort of sexual predator because for YOU, your best moments have been cuddling. 

To be clear, I've never insinuated he is a predator. I've never tried to shame him for it. I just wanted to point out that intimacy can be shared in any number of ways that do not involve the standard kissing/sex. He is getting intimacy, just not in the way it is typically thought of. And given a person that has been physically (and I believe he said potentially sexually) abused, taking that extra step might take some time. Rather then act like she is doing something wrong to him by denying him, let's understand WHY she is waiting and recognize that in so many other ways she has shown him nothing but love.

It's not about me. It's about them together. It's about each person being comfortable and ready enough for it. And it's about him showing her the patience, trust, and understanding she seems to need.

 

[yogacat]

It doesn't matter why she's choosing to wait or not.

What matters is IF you're on board with it. But I would get clearer on why she is making that choice, just so that you get a better sense of where she is coming from. You can certainly express a desire to level up and share. That probably couldn't hurt to do just so she knows. But I don't think you're in a place to get any guarantees or promises from this person. 

It's understandable that your needs for physical intimacy are strong, and I don't think you're weird for that.

But so are her needs to feel comfortable and safe. For whatever reason, as @ShySoul wisely observed, kissing appears to be a cause of anxiety and high stress for her. For you, it's clearly the opposite. You physically desire your partner more and more intensely the more time you spend with her. And it's not weird for you to want that aspect to grow.

What is weird for some people is to find their intimate partners having very different needs in some areas of the physical realm. You'd have to decide if you're comfortable waiting this out with her (with a shared goal for more kissing and progressing as partners), or decide it's too one-sided and that you're more interested in romantic physical intimacy. That doesn't mean she may not come around. But I'm not saying this is your sole goal, and I am not suggesting it is wrong.

The key is that it is a mystery to you and that you need more from her in order to feel closer to her.

[rainbowsandroses]

17 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

To be clear, I've never insinuated he is a predator. I've never tried to shame him for it. I just wanted to point out that intimacy can be shared in any number of ways that do not involve the standard kissing/sex. He is getting intimacy, just not in the way it is typically thought of. And given a person that has been physically (and I believe he said potentially sexually) abused, taking that extra step might take some time. Rather then act like she is doing something wrong to him by denying him, let's understand WHY she is waiting and recognize that in so many other ways she has shown him nothing but love.

It's not about me. It's about them together. It's about each person being comfortable and ready enough for it. And it's about him showing her the patience, trust, and understanding she seems to need.

 

Fair enough SS, thanks for clarifying.

Re the article you linked re cuddling, 100%. It's definitely bonding and can result in feeling closer.

However as the article even states:

>>"Just like cuddling can’t alone make you fall in love, cuddling on its own can’t make a relationship “healthier.” However, it could be a tool to build intimacy and work on making your relationship healthy, depending on what it means to you and your partner.<<

It's a "tool" to build intimacy along with other tools and types of physical affection such as kissing (at the very least).

It's not nor is meant to be a substitute for lack of physical/sexual intimacy.  Just another tool.

Anyway bottom line, OP needs and desires physical/sexually intimacy to feel fully connected and that's okay and valid. 

 

 

 

 

[ShySoul]

3 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

It's a "tool" to build intimacy along with other tools and types of physical affection such as kissing (at the very least).

Actually starting to fall down the rabbit hole on the whole concept of physical affection/cuddling/intimacy . What I see is that it's really not clear cut. Cuddling can be even more intimate then sex. And for some that kind of sensual attraction can be just as rewarding and gratifying all on its own.

Not saying this applies here. I'm just trying to be open to exploring all the ways people can express intimacy as unique experiences, all valid In their own right without needing anything else. Viewing things from the perspective of a couple need to or should be having sex/kissing/making out is leaving out so many of the other ways you can be intimate together - from a slow dance to a shoulder rub to even just holding hands.

https://www.bolde.com/12-reasons-cuddling-intimate-making-love/

https://azejournal.com/article/2018/8/15/on-sensual-attraction-and-intimacy-yes-sometimes-people-really-do-just-want-to-cuddle

"Personally, the intimacy that I yearn for is not in the desire to engage in sexual acts with a person who I may be attracted to, but to engage with them in a sensual dynamic that involves touch, sound, and even the sight of what I find pleasuring to witness. The gratification I may gain from a wholly nonsexual, yet deeply sensual experience, is satisfying in itself"

"Sometimes we really do “just want to cuddle,” and that is just as meaningful."

[Coily]

3 hours ago, ShySoul said:

She already explained. Seems pretty clear to me if you listen to her and take a look at her history.

An abused person who doesn't seem to have fully resolved it. Probably hurt by other relationships and guys who weren't ready to be patient with her. Needs the moment to be right and to know she can trust the person and trust herself. 

She needs time and understanding. She needs someone who will go at her speed, whatever that speed is. She needs to not feel she needs to be doing more for him, as that will just make her more anxious, more scared, and more likely to shut down and do nothing. 

I've waited longer then four months for a kiss. It was worth the wait. And I would have waited far longer, as long as it takes her to be ready. In the end the kiss is only worth it if both people are comfortable and ready for it. If she isn't comfortable yet, continue showing her the same love and affection that is slowly breaking down the walls. Enjoy what you do have. Let her get there when the time is right.

And trust me, when it happens it's better for the wait.

 

Sorry, but the OP needs some road signs from her. He needs to be part of this relationship not just playing the waiting game for her to arbitrarily decide he's safe. Right now he's flying blind and receiving very little feedback about what she needs and where this relationship path can lead.

Define intimacy however you like, it's not up to us to decide that for strangers.  But the OP, again, should not just be left in the dark flailing about.  

My concern for the OP, if his lady friend is not willing to guide him with some solid conversations, then he will be just another in a line of 2 year relationships she's fritters away.

Bottom line they are equal partners in their relationship,  having some "maybe tomorrow" does not build a healthy levels of trust and intimacy.  Progress needs to be known to both.

[rainbowsandroses]

50 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

Viewing things from the perspective of a couple need to or should be having sex/kissing/making out is leaving out so many of the other ways you can be intimate together - from a slow dance to a shoulder rub to even just holding hands.

^^Absolutely and to clarify I never said a couple "should" be doing what's bolded above or anything else.

A couple "should" do whatever they "as a couple" want to do, what works for them, what "they" feel comfortable with.

If they as a couple feel more comfortable waiting to kiss or be sexually intimate that's is perfectly OK!

It becomes a problem when their comfort levels, desires and needs don't match.

In this case, OP's girl isn't comfortable with kissing/physical intimacy but OP is! 

Why should HE have to forfeit what HE needs in order for HER to be more comfortable and ready?

Because that's what a "man" is supposed to do or should do?  Sorry I disagree.

Why shouldn't SHE be the one to take steps to process whatever uncomfortable emotions she has so she does feel more comfortable and IS ready?

I mean it's kissing for heaven's sake. 

Not to mention why is she dating at all if she still has issues to sort though, severely enough she's uncomfortable kissing?  

IF that's even the issue.  It's possible she's just not "feelin it" but enjoys the emotional connection, cuddling, going out, attention, and having a close friendship.

Why is this possibility not being considered?

Anyway, neither one should do anything IMO.

The bottom line is they are incompatible at least with respect to this issue and after they talk, if they can't come to a mutual resolution, perhaps it's best they wish each other well and go separate ways.

 

 

[poorlittlefish]

Perimenopause/menopause causes a lot of changes for women, including physical issues such as thinning of the vaginal walls (which causes pain and irritation down there, no sex needed to experience that) and loss of libido.  She may well be experiencing some of these, making her feel very unsexy, unconfident and vulnerable.  She could be embarrassed about talking about this this stuff, but it might be worth checking and saying how you're there to be supportive and understanding.  

[DarkCh0c0]

15 hours ago, ShySoul said:

Sex is not necessary. Plenty of couples have happy lives and marriages without it. 

I'll change this to 

15 hours ago, ShySoul said:

Sex is not necessary for you Shysoul

@ShySoul

Sex obviously matters to OP. He opened a thread about it. There's no reason to tell him not to care about it.

[ShySoul]

On 8/17/2024 at 5:22 AM, Zeus131313 said:

also have my suspicions regarding some type of sexual abuse although she has been open about physical abuse she suffered for a short time by her ex husband

Zeus, what if this turned out to be true, that there was sexual abuse in her past? I would think her actions would take a different context. I would hope there would be some understanding that this may cause her to be extra careful about being physically intimiate to any degree.

It also wouldn't matter if it was 30 years ago. Those scars can still linger. Same if it wasn't sexual and only physical. 

We don't know her story. She may be slow to open up about it. Few months ago there was a post from a guy who whose girlfriend had been sexually abused. She hadn't told anyone before him because of everything she had gone through with the experience.  She didn't want anyone to know. But because he was understanding and patient, she trusted him. And she could allow herself to be physically intimate as well.

So, what is her story? Was she believed about the abuse? How long did it go on? Is she the kind of sensitive person who might carry guilt or shame over that, even decades later?

Talk with her. Really listen to her. This isn't about sex, making out, or anything physical. The physical acts are representations of how we feel emotionally. There is something blocking her emotionally. She seems to love you and enjoy being with you, so I don't think it's anything to do with you. It's not that something is wrong with her or that she is doing anything wrong. It's something internal that she is struggling with. You say you love her. Show her that love and be there for her. 

Help her through, and I have a feeling the physical will be extremely intense. 

Oh, and again for the record, you are not a predator. But you unfortunately have to deal with the after effects caused by the real predator.

[ShySoul]

On 8/17/2024 at 7:36 AM, Zeus131313 said:

So loving, so giving, so tender and i think that it is only a matter of time.  I know she is not faking it.  We were dancing a song I like which she also does and she told me how happy and safe I make her feel and I could feel her tears on my shoulder.  I didnt say anything because there was no need,  You cannot fake certain things.  And you certainly cannot fake the money she spent in travelling to come and see me or the presents she has been buying for me.

You're right Zeus. You can't fake certain things. You can't fake the feeling you get when you are lying together, safe in each others arms. You can't fake the sensation of being lost in each others eyes or the pure joy in your smile when you see each other. You can't fake the tender carresses that send shivers through you. You can't fake the giddiness inside you when you wake up next to one you love, having spent all night peacefully beside each other. You can't fake their head on your shoulder. You can't fake makng the effort to take time out of her life to travel and see you.

All of this is intimate. All of this is something that you don't just share with anyone. All of this is signs of love and affection she has chosen to share with you. 

Intimacy is not about lips, penis, and vagina. Intimacy is about heart. She has shared her heart with you, and she is continuing to slowly share it in new ways. She'll get to the other stuff. Just don't be in such a rush to get to the destination that you lose sight of all the incredible wonders and experiences along the way. 

Hope you're doing okay and I hope you and her can sort this out.