Have you ever declined an invitation due to a grudge?

[Cherylyn]

28 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Well,  then decide grudge or reputation . 

Or, values and principles vs. reputation. 

[catfeeder]

49 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

On the RSVP card,  should I write a postal letter to my sister?  Example:  Dear  ___________ ,

We will only attend if you were to humbly apologize to me in person.  Then I will know that you are putting forth sincere efforts to make amends and reconcile our sibling relationship.  If you refuse to apologize,  we will opt out by declining both your bridal and wedding invitations.  Congratulations and wishing the nuptials all the best.  Your Sister,  Cherylyn

(P.S.  Please return my wedding china set which I gave you since you said that you would gladly return it if I wanted it back.) 

No, I would never send this. Once you put something in writing, you lose control of how it's perceived, circulated or published.

Your feelings and reasons for them are your own, and there is no occasion benefitting an innocent person that is appropriate for grandstanding.Your niece doesn't know about this toxic battle, and she should not be used as an excuse to engage it further.

Either attend or don't attend, but focus your reasons as internal and don't spray black paint all over anyone else's milestone.

[Cherylyn]

Should I text my local sister and ask her to meet me for lunch?  The purpose would be to have a calm conversation over a meal.  Then if she declines meeting me for lunch,  I can decline the bridal shower and wedding invitations?   Would you do this as one last chance to reconcile? 

Btw,  her birthday is this month.  In the past,  we never acknowledged our birthdays and holidays due our rift and estrangement. 

[yogacat]

I think you need to figure out your motivations here -  do you feel obligated to go because of your family dynamics or do you genuinely want to be there for your niece? If it's the latter, then go and try to put your feelings aside for her sake. 

If you genuinely want to try to reconcile, then go ahead and reach out to her for that lunch. But not as some kind of discussion point for your nieces wedding - go in with the intention of genuinely reconnecting and seeing if a reconciliation is possible.

That said, keep in mind your sister basically feels you are a liar and a troublemaker when it comes to a significant, painful event that happened to your mother.

This is a woman who has not apologized.

Your sister acts like everything is fine. It is a superficial experience. Your sister is likely going to want to take pictures with you to post on social media like all is well.  Is this something that you are comfortable with?

It seems like your sister could be hoping to squash any talk going around that she and you are estranged.

If you go, can you put your own feelings aside for the sake of your niece? Or are you going to be angry and hurt the whole time? If it's the latter, then it's probably best for you to not attend. 

[catfeeder]

58 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

Should I text my local sister and ask her to meet me for lunch?  The purpose would be to have a calm conversation over a meal.  Then if she declines meeting me for lunch,  I can decline the bridal shower and wedding invitations?   Would you do this as one last chance to reconcile? 

Btw,  her birthday is this month.  In the past,  we never acknowledged our birthdays and holidays due our rift and estrangement. 

No, I would not attempt to misuse an innocent person's milestone as an ultimatum to her parent.

Either attend the event at face value for any internal reason you so choose, or decline the invitation for any internal reason you so choose, but don't attempt to leverage your niece's occasion for your own purposes. It's bad form and invites bad consequences.

 

[Cherylyn]

28 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

No, I would not attempt to misuse an innocent person's milestone as an ultimatum to her parent.

Either attend the event at face value for any internal reason you so choose, or decline the invitation for any internal reason you so choose, but don't attempt to leverage your niece's occasion for your own purposes. It's bad form and invites bad consequences.

 

I didn't have intentions of contacting my niece.  I was referring to contacting my sister (the mother of the bride) for lunch and having a calm discussion, listen to what she has to say and tell her my say as well without engaging in a heated argument.  It's better to have an in person verbal conversation as opposed to texts,  phone calls,  voice mails,  emails,  messages,  Zoom,  etc.  It would be two sisters,  her and me and no one else at lunch.  If my sister declines to meet me for lunch,  I can say to myself that I gave her one last chance to say her piece,  she didn't take me up on my offer of an olive branch so it'll be easier to decline the bridal shower and wedding invitations. 

[ShySoul]

Only go if it is for the right reason - celebrating your niece. Should you go, just do the wedding to limit interactions and potential for conflict. Get there right on time and stay in the back. Stay long enough at a reception to congratulate the couple and put in the required time, then go. Don't subject yourself to more then is necessary.

However, you really don't seem to want to go. There is too much bad blood and unresolved tension. Going is just going cause you more stress and tension. So I wouldn't go. 

You are always advising to not go to social events if you aren't comfortable with them. You've talked about the joy of not feeling the anxiety of being around people. So why put yourself in that spot? 

Yes, I know it's family. But there's no rule that says we have to like our family, get along with them, or sacrifice our own emotional state for them. If going is just going to hurt you and make you feel bad, bringing up all these memories and issues, it's not worth it. Putting up a facade for people who will probably turn around and criticize you for something else anyway isn't worth it. 

What counts here is maintaining your own level of self respect and doing what you feel is the right thing for you. 

[Cherylyn]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

I think you need to figure out your motivations here -  do you feel obligated to go because of your family dynamics or do you genuinely want to be there for your niece? If it's the latter, then go and try to put your feelings aside for her sake. 

If you genuinely want to try to reconcile, then go ahead and reach out to her for that lunch. But not as some kind of discussion point for your nieces wedding - go in with the intention of genuinely reconnecting and seeing if a reconciliation is possible.

That said, keep in mind your sister basically feels you are a liar and a troublemaker when it comes to a significant, painful event that happened to your mother.

This is a woman who has not apologized.

Your sister acts like everything is fine. It is a superficial experience. Your sister is likely going to want to take pictures with you to post on social media like all is well.  Is this something that you are comfortable with?

It seems like your sister could be hoping to squash any talk going around that she and you are estranged.

If you go, can you put your own feelings aside for the sake of your niece? Or are you going to be angry and hurt the whole time? If it's the latter, then it's probably best for you to not attend. 

Yes,  I hear you @yogacat.  Yes,  I've noticed my sister blasts away on social media (FB,  IG, etc) with abandon. 

If I attend,  it will definitely feel unnatural,  awkward and uncomfortable.  😒  My eyes will be downcast and I have a hard time looking people in the eye during bitter and resentful atmospheres just as anyone would. 

[ShySoul]

1 hour ago, Cherylyn said:

Should I text my local sister and ask her to meet me for lunch?  The purpose would be to have a calm conversation over a meal.  Then if she declines meeting me for lunch,  I can decline the bridal shower and wedding invitations?   Would you do this as one last chance to reconcile? 

Btw,  her birthday is this month.  In the past,  we never acknowledged our birthdays and holidays due our rift and estrangement. 

Do you genuinely want to try and reconcile with her? Are you doing it for the right reasons? Do you think you are in an emotional state to handle talking to her? If so, do it. Do it because you want to try and make peace. Don't do it as a way to try to decide how to handle the wedding. Let that be a separate thing. Let the couple enjoy their time, not bring up complex family drama that doesn't involve them and could put a damper on the happy occassion.

You also aren't going to be able to make peace with all of this over one meal. Maybe it would be better to handle things after the wedding, if you really feel inclined to do so.

[Cherylyn]

31 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

Only go if it is for the right reason - celebrating your niece. Should you go, just do the wedding to limit interactions and potential for conflict. Get there right on time and stay in the back. Stay long enough at a reception to congratulate the couple and put in the required time, then go. Don't subject yourself to more then is necessary.

However, you really don't seem to want to go. There is too much bad blood and unresolved tension. Going is just going cause you more stress and tension. So I wouldn't go. 

You are always advising to not go to social events if you aren't comfortable with them. You've talked about the joy of not feeling the anxiety of being around people. So why put yourself in that spot? 

Yes, I know it's family. But there's no rule that says we have to like our family, get along with them, or sacrifice our own emotional state for them. If going is just going to hurt you and make you feel bad, bringing up all these memories and issues, it's not worth it. Putting up a facade for people who will probably turn around and criticize you for something else anyway isn't worth it. 

What counts here is maintaining your own level of self respect and doing what you feel is the right thing for you. 

I have an easier time declining invitations if it's friends or acquaintances.  It would be easier to decline family (or in-law) invitations if traveling was required.  Traveling expenses are a very convenient excuse to bow out and decline invitations.  There's air fare,  hotel,  dine out meals,  rental car and the expensive inconvenient hassle of it all.  Unfortunately,  my relatives and in-laws reside locally so it's a precarious situation. 

Since they reside locally,  we cross paths more often than I'd like for other social gatherings throughout the year.  I don't look forward to facing their judgments on me. 

If I lived across the country faraway,  it would be out of sight,  out of mind but due to the local proximity and geography,  I'm spared that luxury.  ☹️

[rainbowsandroses]

4 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

I didn't have intentions of contacting my niece.  I was referring to contacting my sister (the mother of the bride) for lunch and having a calm discussion, listen to what she has to say and tell her my say as well without engaging in a heated argument.  It's better to have an in person verbal conversation as opposed to texts,  phone calls,  voice mails,  emails,  messages,  Zoom,  etc.  It would be two sisters,  her and me and no one else at lunch.  If my sister declines to meet me for lunch,  I can say to myself that I gave her one last chance to say her piece,  she didn't take me up on my offer of an olive branch so it'll be easier to decline the bridal shower and wedding invitations. 

Referring to my earlier post wherein I suggested she may have been in denial re your late dad's abuse and as such in her eyes you just HAD to be lying, yes I think lunch is a very thoughtful gesture.

You can talk calmly as two sisters, openly and honesty and attempt to reconnect. 

@Cherylynlife is too short and family is too important to harbor such negative feelings and hold grudges. 

Seek understanding versus criticism of her actions

As I said, family denial re abuse is a very real thing, my own dad was in denial re my mom's abuse towards me for a long time and the few times I tried to tell him, he accused me of having an overactive imagination.

Imagine how I felt as a young girl having her own dad tell her that!

I forgave him once I understood it AND my mom for the abuse and I am the better person for it AND a lot healthier and happier!

 

 

[Cherylyn]

2 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

Do you genuinely want to try and reconcile with her? Are you doing it for the right reasons? Do you think you are in an emotional state to handle talking to her? If so, do it. Do it because you want to try and make peace. Don't do it as a way to try to decide how to handle the wedding. Let that be a separate thing. Let the couple enjoy their time, not bring up complex family drama that doesn't involve them and could put a damper on the happy occasion.

You also aren't going to be able to make peace with all of this over one meal. Maybe it would be better to handle things after the wedding, if you really feel inclined to do so.

I would say,  yes,  I want to reconcile but not electronically.  In person would be best because electronic correspondence can go instantly awry whereas in person,  there's facial expressions,  back 'n forth dialogue and a chance to hear each other out.  If it's in public,  we're more self conscious and less apt to do anything foolhardy.  In the worst case scenario,  if I'm made to be the scapegoat,  I can always get up and walk away.  Hopefully,  I won't have to resort to leaving.  I am trying to make peace otherwise I wouldn't even consider offering an olive branch.   I think it can be done with one meal and if she is abrupt with me by shutting me down,  then she is the one to cause resuming estrangement all over again. 

[Cherylyn]

3 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Referring to my earlier post wherein I suggested she may have been in denial re your late dad's abuse and as such in her eyes you just HAD to be lying, yes I think lunch is a very thoughtful gesture.

You can talk calmly as two sisters, openly and honesty and attempt to reconnect. 

@Cherylynlife is too short and family is too important to harbor such negative feelings and hold grudges. 

Seek understanding versus criticism of her actions

As I said, family denial re abuse is a very real thing, my own dad was in denial re my mom's abuse towards me for a long time and the few times I tried to tell him, he accused me of having an overactive imagination.

Imagine how I felt as a young girl having her own dad tell her that!

I forgave him once I understood it AND my mom for the abuse and I am the better person for it AND a lot healthier and happier!

 

 

I agree with you @rainbowsandroses.  My sister is in denial because it's easier to be in denial and in her fantasy world than face the harsh reality check.  All she remembers is singing with my father and sitting on his lap;  only endearing memories as a small child.  She doesn't know the ugly.  She never bore witness to wife beating;  just me and my brother. 

She can't handle the truth.  You're right.  It's too painful for her to admit so it's easier to shut me down by calling me a liar.  Even though I understand where her lying comment is coming from,  she didn't have to call me a liar at my expense.  She took it too far.  I don't mind not being believed but I draw the line at being called a liar when I know deep down within my bones on my mother's honor that I told the honest truth.  I can say that with a clear conscience. 

I'm sorry for your mother's abuse.  It's a terrible thing and you witnessed your father's denial.  It is infuriating to be sure.  Then your father engaged in gaslighting you by accusing you of having an overactive imagination.  If that's not infuriating,  I don't know what is.  Gaslighting is the worst psychological warfare there is.  It's manipulating and controlling.  Gaslighting is forcing you to change your perception of the facts and to deliberately throw you off by confusing you.  Oh, don't get me started. 😠 

Your forgiveness was beautiful. 

I have a hard time with forgiving.  I don't give free passes to transgressors.  I don't let them get off the hook so easily.  I'm passive aggressive whenever I retaliate; not so much with what I say or write but by actions or lack thereof.  Usually it's the latter and not the former.  I don't attack back.  I simply do nothing.  I disappear into oblivion.  I don't engage. 

For several years now whenever she invited me to her house for Thanksgiving,  I didn't even bother to RSVP.  My silence did the talking.  When she invited me to her various celebrations at her house for events,  again,  no RSVP.  I simply didn't attend. 

 

[Cherylyn]

2 hours ago, catfeeder said:

No, I would never send this. Once you put something in writing, you lose control of how it's perceived, circulated or published.

Your feelings and reasons for them are your own, and there is no occasion benefiting an innocent person that is appropriate for grandstanding.Your niece doesn't know about this toxic battle, and she should not be used as an excuse to engage it further.

Either attend or don't attend, but focus your reasons as internal and don't spray black paint all over anyone else's milestone.

You are correct.  I won't leave an electronic trail.  Nowadays,  anything can be copied,  pasted, forwarded and it's a risky maneuver. 

Since I'm not close to my niece anyway,  perhaps a congratulatory postal greeting card for the nuptials will suffice. 

[Cherylyn]

41 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

However, you really don't seem to want to go. There is too much bad blood and unresolved tension. Going is just going cause you more stress and tension. So I wouldn't go. 

You are always advising to not go to social events if you aren't comfortable with them. You've talked about the joy of not feeling the anxiety of being around people. So why put yourself in that spot? 

Yes, I know it's family. But there's no rule that says we have to like our family, get along with them, or sacrifice our own emotional state for them. If going is just going to hurt you and make you feel bad, bringing up all these memories and issues, it's not worth it. Putting up a facade for people who will probably turn around and criticize you for something else anyway isn't worth it. 

What counts here is maintaining your own level of self respect and doing what you feel is the right thing for you. 

Doing things for appearance's sake is agonizingly painful.  I can put on an act but it only goes so far to the point of why should I subject myself to such humiliation?  It's demeaning.  Actually,  attending is capitulating.  😠

[ShySoul]

6 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

If I attend,  it will definitely feel unnatural,  awkward and uncomfortable.  😒  My eyes will be downcast and I have a hard time looking people in the eye during bitter and resentful atmospheres just as anyone would. 

Shouldn't weddings invoke happy tears? Not hurt, bitter, and resentful ones? If you won't be able to enjoy what is supposed to be the happiest day of a person's life, doesn't make sense to go.

20 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

I am trying to make peace otherwise I wouldn't even consider offering an olive branch.   I think it can be done with one meal and if she is abrupt with me by shutting me down,  then she is the one to cause resuming estrangement all over again. 

Then it's worth trying. 

Just be careful. I'd hate to see it open up old wounds again. But if you feel you need to do it, its always worth the effort. Best to try to cleanse ourselves of the negative and start fresh if possible. Though it takes a lot of work and both parties need to be willing.

Good for you for wanting to make things right.

9 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

My sister is in denial because it's easier to be in denial and in her fantasy world than face the harsh reality check.  All she remembers is singing with my father and sitting on his lap;  only endearing memories as a small child.  She doesn't know the ugly.  She never bore witness to wife beating;  just me and my brother. 

I can see this from the opposite side. I have two older brothers. We share the same mother but all different fathers. The middle son's father abused our mother. This was before I was ever around, so I have only know the little bit I have heard. The middle boy was too young to remember much. But the oldest remembered it clearly. He saw the ugly. And he carried resentment over it for years. I'm sure he hated the guy who did it. But he wasn't around anymore. So a lot of the anger got transferred to our mom. That, among other things, caused problems with between them for years. He struggled with letting go and it contributed to him developing other problems, such as drugs. It took a lot for him to turn things around and part of that journey was finding peace with everything that had happened when he was young and the people involved.

You're an awesome person Cherylyn. You're smart. You're caring. But I've often felt you've got things that you hold onto from the past, that's it's difficult to let grudges go. Don't let them hold hold you down like my brother let it hold him down for so long. You're clearly not in the bad place he was. But I think you could be in an even better place if you let go of some things and can find peace with certain people. And yes, family doesn't make it easy to do so. But it's worth trying for. And sometimes those people can surprise you.

 

[Cherylyn]

6 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Well, the way I view this is if you choose to go, it wouldn't be for your niece, it would be for your sister who given your acrimonious relationship, needed to invite you otherwise SHE would have looked like the "bad guy" in your family's eyes.

It wasn't a genuine invite based on her desire to actually have you there celebrating this event, it would be for HER, too keep up social appearances, etc.

Again, just my opinion, how I would view it.

Anyway, if me, I would thank her for the invite, politely decline and send a gift to your niece.

As for your family, I can't imagine them being so vicious that they'd trash you for not being able to attend, but if they did, so be, they'll get over it.

 

 

 

Yes,  this is my sister's show.  She wants to make herself look like the bigger person taking the high road and make everyone else perceive what a nice person she is by doing me a favor by inviting me.  Gee thanks.  🙄  She doesn't want to be perceived as the bad guy so she invites me so she looks good.  She is full of sneaky tricks.  😒

It's not a genuine invite.  It's an obligatory invite only as if she's doing me a favor.  Oh please.  😠

Yes,  I'd be viciously trashed by local relatives and in-laws.  I'm ________ if I do and _________ if I don't.  Can't win.

If I attend,  it looks as if I'm capitulating.  I might as well wave a white flag as I'm escorted to my pew. 

You're right they'll get over it.  The following day it's back to normal life,  working,  taking care of households,  paying bills and a non-occasion,  mundane everyday life just like the next person.

[ShySoul]

11 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

Doing things for appearance's sake is agonizingly painful.  I can put on an act but it only goes so far to the point of why should I subject myself to such humiliation?  It's demeaning.  Actually,  attending is capitulating.  😠

Friend ended up in a hospital because she was always trying to put on an act that things were okay, Put too much strain on her heart. Now she tries to be better about not subjecting herself to that humiliation and saying - still polite but direct - what she is feeling. She also tries to avoid the situations that would most be likely to set her off - such as with her mother or sister in law.

Try to do the nice, polite thing. But not if it's going to hurt you.

[ShySoul]

4 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

On the RSVP card,  should I write a postal letter to my sister?  Example:  Dear  ___________ ,

We will only attend if you were to humbly apologize to me in person.  Then I will know that you are putting forth sincere efforts to make amends and reconcile our sibling relationship.  If you refuse to apologize,  we will opt out by declining both your bridal and wedding invitations.  Congratulations and wishing the nuptials all the best.  Your Sister,  Cherylyn

(P.S.  Please return my wedding china set which I gave you since you said that you would gladly return it if I wanted it back.) 

I like it. Don't you dare send it. But I like it. 😂

Hope it helped to get that written out. Taking the anger and hurt out by writing it down can be cathartic.

[Cherylyn]

Just now, ShySoul said:

I like it. Don't you dare send it. But I like it. 😂

Hope it helped to get that written out. Taking the anger and hurt out by writing it down can be cathartic.

I won't send it.  🙂

[Cherylyn]

Well,  on second thought,  several months ago,  my brother broached the lying subject with my sister and he told me that she shut him down by yelling at him this:  "I don't want to talk about it!"  🤬 He slunk away after that and didn't pursue it any further.  Also,  I do recall that in the past,  she declined meeting me for lunch for fearing I'll confront her.  She doesn't want to be caught off guard. 

She shut my brother down and she declined meeting me for a meal years ago.  She always wants the upper hand.  She doesn't want to lose.  She's too prideful and egotistical.  To her,  it's a game. 

She's not the one to have a mature,  emotionally intelligent discussion nor admit to anything.  It is not her nature.  She has a personality defect called narcissism which is a serious mental disorder for which there is no cure.  Narcissists lack empathy.

If she,  my siblings,  mother or in-laws were to ever question my non-attendance,  I can always ask anyone including my sister this:  "Why invite a liar?"  No one can think of a retort. 

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, Cherylyn said:

Yes,  I'd be viciously trashed by local relatives and in-laws.  I'm ________ if I do and _________ if I don't.  Can't win.

If I attend,  it looks as if I'm capitulating.  I might as well wave a white flag as I'm escorted to my pew. 

I think you are looking at it too much through your beef with her. This event is not about you and her. Its about your niece marriage and baby. Might be her only one in life for both. If you want to celebrate that, then go. If you think its about your sister and you, then dont.

Also have you thought that even your sister and niece wants you to genuinely be there? I kinda doubt your sister is some mustache twirling cartoon villain calling you to a wedding so she would look good. She might, there are people who are like that. But kinda doubt she would call you just for that. 

[DarkCh0c0]

11 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

Bride and groom do not know about the 'bad blood' (discord) with several family members.  Grudges are with a sibling and cousin.  What if the bride is your niece?

Well, can you go and just avoid the company of people you don't want to see? And give your kids a fun time?

If your husband will be there, surely as a team you can stay around people you both like and ignore the rest. And you can leave early.

Also reg. how your sisters deals with the abuse truth, I would not take it so personally. A lot of people don't know how or don't have the capacity to sit with such truths. They rather be in denial because otherwise it's too painful. Some of them also don't want anything to do with it, and that's on them. It's just how it is.

Eventually, there's no right or wrong way about this.

2 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

If she,  my siblings,  mother or in-laws were to ever question my non-attendance,  I can always ask anyone including my sister this:  "Why invite a liar?"  No one can think of a retort

Well, if you have that much beef... Idk what to say. If you feel triggered, absolutely don't do it. It's not worth it.

[Seraphim]

It is your niece’s wedding and she isn’t a part of the hoopla, let her have her happy day. Everyone deserves a happy wedding day. It isn’t the place for a battle over generational trauma. 
 

It is probably best to stay home as it sounds all over emotional. 
 

I think you said your sister is a lot younger than you and didn’t see the abuse . All siblings are so different even if they have the same parents and the same experiences they are different people and process and experience the same experience differently.  My younger brother is 3.5 years younger than me . I remember experiences from 1970 onwards and he says he doesn’t remember most experiences before 1979 when he was 9 years old. In 1970 I was 3 years old . So he relies on MY memories of our early life . 
 

I would just stay home and send your niece and her new husband a card. 

[smackie9]

My mom is a narcissist so I understand what you are going through. We all know they are insecure, and crack at any sign of criticism or non belief. They only cope with vindictiveness, hate, manipulation, vengeance, etc. There is no reconciliation. So having lunch and trying to convince her to set this aside is a waste of time. The only way to pacify a narcissist is to apologize and agree with them. That's the only way this will go away. I had to do this with my mother ONCE. I spoke my mind about why things are terrible between her and her partner. She didn't like it and went on a tangent. As soon as I apologized, it all disappeared. I didn't agree with it but I wasn't going to spend years bickering over it. Let her believe what she wants to believe is my advice.