Was she (28F) flirting with me(33M)? She says she dreamed about me.

[ShySoul]

Our experiences are not his experiences. Our relationships are not his relationships. It's his call.

Penpal, she did nothing to mislead you. I pointed out all along that everything she did could have been that of a super friendly and nice person. We see what we want to see from things. You were attracted to her and developed feelings, which is natural.Those feelings were not returned at this time, which is also fine and natural. You saw more to her actions then was there, encouraged by many other people. It was two people whose timing was off. It happens. But neither of you did anything wrong. Neither of you should feel bad.

And it shouldn't cause you to dismiss a person with whom you obviously get along well with, have fun with, and who wants to be your friend.

Really, what's wrong with being someone's friend? True friends are rare in this world. If there is any chance this woman could be a true friend, take it.

[rainbowsandroses]

14 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

Penpal, she did nothing to mislead you. 

I think she did.  I mean approaching him telling him she dreamt about him?  Long paragraphs telling him how attractive and awesome he is?  Touching him?  Etc etc.

Even you were encouraging him to ask her out based on her behavior!  

This is not how a woman in an exclusive relationship behaves, not in my world, not in most people's world. 

If it is in your world so be; I think it's inappropriate and disrespectful to her relationship.

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

5 hours ago, penpal999 said:

Here’s how it went.

Just basing it off of how accurately you did, or didn’t, tell the story… it sounds like she was interested in you but someone else had recently asked her out and she’s “putting her eggs” in that basket.  Had you asked her earlier on, you would have been the guy she was dating 

 

the whole “friend” thing you wrote about earlier didn’t even come into play. I think that was your own fearful interpretation, once again. 
 

With that said… I don’t like the fact she said something about talking about it after probation…(that would have been leading you on or keeping you on the back burner while she waited to see how her new relationship played out) but I suppose she redeemed herself in the txt where she was able to be a lot more clear

 

to me, it sounds like she liked you but got swooped up by someone else

[ShySoul]

12 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I think she did.  I mean approaching him telling him she dreamt about him?  Long paragraphs telling him how attractive and awesome he is?  Touching him?  Etc etc.

Even you were encouraging him to ask her out based on her behavior!  

This is not how a woman in an exclusive relationship behaves, not in my world, not in most people's world. 

If it is in your world so be; I think it's inappropriate and disrespectful to her relationship.

We don't know the state of the relationship or when it started. She "just started" seeing someone which could mean any number of things. We don't know if it is "exclusive" (as in a proper boyfriend/girlfriend way) only that she prefers to see one person at a time and is currently seeing someone. Which I Maybe she meet someone over the weekend (after much of this had taken place) and he asked her out first, so she wants to give him the first chance. Maybe she is just a very open person who tells people what is on her mind. Maybe she is a touchy feely kind of girl. Maybe she really does think he is an awesome and nice guy and just wanted to tell him that.

I encouraged him as a way to find out for sure and to get over the fears that was holding him back. I believe I said that she may or not like him in that way, but that he should follow his own feelings and do what he felt he needed to do. Which he did and which he should feel proud of. 

And again I'll say he should follow his own feelings and do what he feels he needs to do. If he doesn't feel he can be friends, he shouldn't be friends. But her seeing someone else doesn't change the fact that every encounter they have had has been positive. She even handled saying no with as much class as she could.

There was no major disagreement or fight. There was no warning signs or red flags. Why create them now? If everyone thought she was a nice person before, why go back and rewrite it so that she was leading him on? Maybe it's as simple as two nice people getting along as friends, and one having feelings that were not returned by the other party. And maybe it's as simple as those same two people being mature enough not to let things get weird and being able to continue the friendship that was developing.

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

33 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

If it is in your world so be; I think it's inappropriate and disrespectful to her relationship.

 

She said she “just started seeing someone”… maybe she was single 

And even then, some people are really bubbly and touchy with everyone…. OPs interpretation of the story in general has been quite different than what the actual chat transcripts are, and his ability to read social queues and be sure of someone’s actions is wonky…sooo… I’m not going to take his interpretation of her behavior as “gospel”

33 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I mean approaching him telling him she dreamt about him? 

This bit was never notable to me at all. It had absolutely 0 meaning IMO. 

[ShySoul]

13 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Just basing it off of how accurately you did, or didn’t, tell the story… it sounds like she was interested in you but someone else had recently asked her out and she’s “putting her eggs” in that basket.  Had you asked her earlier on, you would have been the guy she was dating 

the whole “friend” thing you wrote about earlier didn’t even come into play. I think that was your own fearful interpretation, once again.

Agreed. "Friends" wasn't the issue, timing was. He asked, she said yes. Good chance if you had caught her earlier, she would be saying yes to you. 

Don't wait around. But you don't have to give up entirely on even knowing her. As I've said all along, just keep doing what you are doing. You are a good guy. The right thing will happen when the time is right. And it will be awesome.

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

6 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

Agreed. "Friends" wasn't the issue, timing was

That’s exactly what it sounds like. 
 

I don’t think human relationships are as black and white as “she said friend, *reads manual* that means xyz,” or “she touched your shoulder, *reads manual* that means xyz” … and I’m the king of black and white thinking.  I think the story as a whole is what paints the actual picture. 
 

we can go down a rabbit hole and debate whether or not she’s telling the truth or embellishing/lying to pad the fall. But I’m of the belief that if this person hasn’t been caught being dishonest in the past, why not just believe her. And if she is padding the fall with white lies, then it’s for the best she turned him down 

he has now gained confidence in being able to ask a woman out and next time I think he can do it quicker … now that he sees what can happen when you don’t 

[rainbowsandroses]

@penpal999whatever her motivations for behaving as she did, just want to say I think you handled the entire situation with grace and class, all your responses, including to her last saying no and why, reflected maturity and respect for her and her "new" relationship.

Not all men would have been that gracious in that same situation, not in my experience anyway.

Good job and good luck! 😀

 

[ShySoul]

27 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

But I’m of the belief that if this person hasn’t been caught being dishonest in the past, why not just believe her. And if she is padding the fall with white lies, then it’s for the best she turned him down 

he has now gained confidence in being able to ask a woman out and next time I think he can do it quicker … now that he sees what can happen when you don’t 

Innocent until proven guilty. Sure, it runs the risk of putting your faith in the wrong person, but that's where common sense comes in. Most of the time there doesn't need to be a manuel. You just know based on the totality of your interactions. You can tell how trustworthy a person is. Generally your instinct is going to be correct. And generally, people are honest. Those who aren't, aren't as good at hiding it as they think they are.

I think he handled everything wonderfully. Hopefully he has gained confidence. Though if he ever needs a boost, he's free to reach out anytime.

[Kwothe28]

2 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

he has now gained confidence in being able to ask a woman out and next time I think he can do it quicker … now that he sees what can happen when you don’t 

Highly unlikely. I mean I would like to. But OP is somebody who is very afraid of rejection. Hence why he asked for even obvious signs before he does anything. Now that he is actually rejected, more likely scenario is that he would retract into his shell further. Yes, even more further than "Obvious signs, ask her out" that he did now. Lots of people learn social ques through trial and error method. When something fails they just dont try it again. That is how I explain "D pics sending" some people do. It must have worked on somebody before so they try it again even if it has very small rate of success in reality. So, in OPs case, rejection means he most likely wont try it again. He did handled it very well. But not sure he gained any confidence here. When he was clearly rejected and disappointed.

Also not really sure timing is an issue here. It is my thought that she wouldnt be stopped by some recent relationship if she really liked OP. And that she just didnt wanted to say a clear "No". Some women have a problem with that and are afraid of mens reaction, especially when she would see OP on daily basis while at work. So she first invented "Lets just wait until probation ends" only to follow after with "I have a boyfriend" line. Two very contradictory lines. Because if she is "all eggs in one basket kind of girl", why the hell would she even said to OP how they should wait her probation period so they would maybe date?

I am glad OP is moving on from this. He doesnt need somebody like this who would get his hopes up and then slip the rug under him  to fall. Nore her telling him about her boyfriend if that story is real. But again, I am afraid this didnt get him confidence to try again. To praise the girl little bit, I think she did mitigate his fall by not being harsh and flattering him. Just dont think its enough for him to stand tall after it and try with somebody else any time soon.

[NighttimeNightmare]

2 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

So she first invented "Lets just wait until probation ends" only to follow after with "I have a boyfriend" line. Two very contradictory lines. Because if she is "all eggs in one basket kind of girl", why the hell would she even said to OP how they should wait her probation period so they would maybe date?

This stood out to me as well, and I even mentioned that in one of my responses here. It’s odd, I agree 

for me personally, the more I pay attention to my own feelings, I find I can hold opposing feelings about the same situation, all at once.  And I do think when it comes to feelings and emotions, humans can feel an array of different things

its possible she did just get into a relationship and has chosen to devote her time to that individual, while at the same time being aware that something could have happened with OP as well… she could have been interested in both of these people simultaneously, but the other guy asked her out first.  It’s human that she may have felt a “what if” or a “maybe in the future”’esp given the fact she has no idea where her new relationship will go….…. But she recovers this “confusion” when she reaches back out to txt him to clarify. It came across as she fumbled in the moment with her own myriad of feelings, and then composed herself and wished him well.  I don’t think that makes her a liar, just human. 
 

now… is she a liar? Maybe. Your take might be spot on.  And if so, it’s for the best that he can move on

 

 

[ShySoul]

21 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

But she recovers this “confusion” when she reaches back out to txt him to clarify. It came across as she fumbled in the moment with her own myriad of feelings, and then composed herself and wished him well.  I don’t think that makes her a liar, just human. 

Think she explained that.

9 hours ago, penpal999 said:

I’m sorry I couldn’t say this on the phone, I was just a little surprised is all.

She wasn't expecting to be asked out, so didn't know what to say. How do you say "no I'm already seeing someone else" without it sounding rude, mean, or dismissive? So she hesitated and probably said the first thing she thought of, delay it until I can figure out how best put it. Then she did. 

Not a liar and handled as best as she could figure out in the moment.

Also think everyone posting here got his hopes up just as much as she did. He was the one who wasn't sure only to be greeting with repeated posts saying of course she did and how there was no way she wasn't. Yet, she wasn't.

[NighttimeNightmare]

22 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

Also think everyone posting here got his hopes up just as much as she did. He was the one who wasn't sure only to be greeting with repeated posts saying of course she did and how there was no way she wasn't. Yet, she wasn't.

The absolutes people had about the dream tidbit freaked me out. Some saying she for sure didn’t actually have the dream and was flirting. Others saying she did have the dream but told him about it because she was into him.  How can anyone make those claims for sure? People dream all of the time and it wouldn’t be out of reason that some people who happen to be bubbly and chatty may share that dream just to have a conversation: “How weird dude. You showed up in my dream! Lol”. That’s not evidence someone is into you

 

but on that note, she very well may have been into him and his timing was just off. Or she’s not into him and padded his fall. Or she’s someone who likes to lead men on for attention. So many possibilities. This is why I think we all need to learn how to trust ourselves. How to be direct. How to graciously step back. How to know when to end things, or when to begin things.  
 

@penpal999 are you going to keep in touch with her if she reaches back out?

[ShySoul]

5 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

This is why I think we all need to learn how to trust ourselves. How to be direct. How to graciously step back. How to know when to end things, or when to begin things.

Trusting myself is one of the most important lessons I've learned and why I always advise it to others. I've wasted so much time trying to analyze everything, imagining every scenario, reading into things that I could never really know. But I've never regretted any time I've just trusted my instinct and followed my heart.

Of course, all those lessons are easy to say. Much harder to put into practice.

And yes, the dream thing always gave me pause. I've had people in my dreams that I clearly didn't like. Dreams can be so random and mixed up that it's hard to make sense of any of it. 

Though I don't think we ever found out what was happening in that dream. Hmm. Maybe that should have been the real question for her. Could have clarified a lot. Or made us all blush.....☺️

[rainbowsandroses]

54 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Others saying she did have the dream but told him about it because she was into him.  How can anyone make those claims for sure? People dream all of the time and it wouldn’t be out of reason that some people who happen to be bubbly and chatty may share that dream just to have a conversation: “How weird dude. You showed up in my dream! Lol”. That’s not evidence someone is into you

I don't dispute this^ and of course I can only speak for myself BUT if I had a boyfriend or were not "into" a guy, and I had a dream about him, I would NOT have mentioned it to him, I would have kept it to myself. 

And I'm considered to be quite bubbly and chatty, but I wouldn't have said anything.  

Why?  Because I think it's important to be aware of how our words come across and can be interpreted by those we say the words too.

Because just like in this situation, the OP created this thread asking what she meant, was she flirting, does she like him; many people thought YES otherwise she would not have told him about it because it can be misleading if interpreted the wrong way, like here.

So why take that chance?  Just keep it to yourself, I can't even imagine telling a male acquaintance or workmate I had a dream about him when I'm in a relationship or NOT into him.

Dreams are personal, they can be sensual, they could mean he/she is on our minds, we're thinking about them.

Not everyone is knowledgeable about the meaning of dreams, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that the person we just told might interpret it as a flirt or a come on.  

Not to mention all the other flirtatious remarks she made, the compliments, the long-winded texts, most women with boyfriends or who otherwise are NOT into a guy don't do things like that.  Or they shouldn't imo.

It can be misleading and as a woman I am very aware of that so keep the dream to myself, and nix all the flirty compliments and long-winded texting etc. 

 

[Batya33]

OP - I am all for meeting people at work unless you work closely together/one supervises the other - but it does make it more complicated since in a work situation people are less likely to share if they are "seeing someone".  The very first time my future husband/co-worker asked me to lunch we'd met 3 times in 8 months all at company events.  I'd approached him his first day of work at his welcome breakfast so I think at the next two events  either he came over to say hi or we ended up at cocktail hour standing near each other.  We had no contact at all in between.  (1990s ).  When he asked me to lunch I really wasn't sure it was a date and I like your coworker had been seeing someone for about a month.  I told that guy I planned to have lunch with this guy during the workday- who knows why I even mentioned it - but I did not tell coworker -I didn't know if it was a date and I was not in an exclusive relationship. 

4 or 5 dates later I think was when we got more serious? Maybe 6.  So I did end things with the other guy -non-co-worker guy - and at some point since he didn't take it well I told my future husband.  Because he kept calling.  

I wasn't sure I was into co-worker right away.  It took a few dates.  I didn't know him well and he was very very very shy and reserved.  Had we met outside of work perhaps I would have seen his lunch invite differently.  After that lunch he invited me out for drinks and I knew that was a date.  He didn't ask me out for months because he was shy/nervous. 

In another coworker situation in the same 1990s time frame a coworker who worked in another office out of state came to our office once a month or so.  We chatted when we saw each other -he told me he had a serious girlfriend (they are now married for a million years) - I never saw myself as flirting with him, and figured -he told me he has a girlfriend.  I had started dating my future husband.  One day he asked if I wanted to watch a popular TV show at my place the next day. I was incredibly naive -figured -platonic -I mean he had a girlfriend.  So I said sure. 

That day of the plan he says -oh I brought overnight clothes -you know, just in case.  I was - flabbergasted.  So I told him I couldn't make it that night.  He got the hint.  If I'd posted this now I'm sure there would be those who would have thought how could I not know he meant he wanted to hook up with me?? But -I didn't know! We actually connected on FB a few years ago - and it's totally platonic/professional - he's happily married I guess.

OP my experiences are not your experiences but -- I hope the similarities are helpful. There are many who say no way don't date at work -I think if two people do not work together it can be just fine.  Worked out just fine for us.  

Take care.

[penpal999]

Wow this thread really blew up over the last little bit lol.

So another update!

I worked with her today. It was fine. She was slightly nervous around me and I could tell right away. Honestly my stomach was in knots, but I don't want her to go through the day being nervous to just be near me, so I was very friendly and helpful throughout the day. We laughed about stuff, worked closely with each other, I even pulled her out of her cubicle where she was eating lunch by herself and asked her to join the rest of the team sitting together and having a good time. She thanked me after and said that was really sweet. In the afternoon was were inseparable and before she left for vacation (2 weeks in Europe), she pulled me aside and thanked her for a wonderful day and said she really appreciated my help. I told her no worries, I'm glad she's enjoying her time at work and to have a safe trip, and I left. 

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. What's happened has happened. Was she lying and just leading me on? Probably not. Was she genuinely interested in me? Who knows. Am I glad to at least possibly maintain a friendship with her? Definitely. I'm not going to toss her off to the side just because she doesn't want to date me. She's still a person and I want to respect her decision. I don't hate her for what happened, and I'm genuinely so proud of myself for having the guts to ask her out. If this was a few years ago I'd anguish over this girl for months if not YEARS and come up with scenarios in my head of how great we'd be together and how her BF is a jerk and blah blah blah. Now? I feel good. I survived rejection, and I can move on. Don't get me wrong, it sucked and I felt like crap all night, but that's life and I look forward to the future.

My confidence needs work, and I am going to seek therapy for that - in addition to my anxiety. My self esteem is just too low and I need to figure out why. So I'm happy I was able to experience this and come out the other side still in one piece. 

ONE THING I will add to this though, if it makes ANY difference. So the night we went out for food/drinks and bowling, we were sitting at our large table and one of our coworkers mentioned how she's seeing someone new. One of my coworkers asked Laura, the girl I liked, if she was seeing anyone, and she responded "no but my friends are trying to set me up with a guy". I barely caught it, and I honestly took that as "Great! She's single!", but maybe this is the guy she's starting to see? But who knows. I'll never ask, and I doubt I'll see her at work any time soon and I'll be gone before anything gets serious enough between them. I feel like an idiot because maybe that was crucial information? I don't know. I was just excited.

Anyway, thank you all so much again for your advice. I'm sure I'll be lurking in the forums and reading other posts, but I won't be updating anymore. The less I think about this mess the better lol. You're a great group of people and I appreciate all of the heartfelt advice and tough love you gave me. If it wasn't for you guys, I'd be day dreaming about how I'd ask this girl out 10 years from now lol. Take care everyone.

[ShySoul]

59 minutes ago, penpal999 said:

I don't hate her for what happened, and I'm genuinely so proud of myself for having the guts to ask her out. If this was a few years ago I'd anguish over this girl for months if not YEARS and come up with scenarios in my head of how great we'd be together and how her BF is a jerk and blah blah blah. Now? I feel good. I survived rejection, and I can move on. Don't get me wrong, it sucked and I felt like crap all night, but that's life and I look forward to the future.

👏👏👏

Smart and mature response. Seriously, maybe you should be the one giving the advice? Think a lot of people could benefit from that kind of insight and knowing someone like you has actually been through it.

And I won't be surprise if you check in at some point and some lucky lady has snatched you up. 

[Capricorn3]

1 hour ago, penpal999 said:

Anyway, thank you all so much again for your advice. I'm sure I'll be lurking in the forums and reading other posts, but I won't be updating anymore.

OP, would you like to have your thread closed?

[penpal999]

12 minutes ago, Capricorn3 said:

OP, would you like to have your thread closed?

Sure! I'll be reading things in this thread for a while lol, but unless anyone else has anything to add, we can end this thread. I'll be sure to update in the future if anything happens with this girl. If anyone has anything to say to me please message me directly. Thank you all so much.

[Capricorn3]

1 minute ago, penpal999 said:

Sure! I'll be reading things in this thread for a while lol, but unless anyone else has anything to add, we can end this thread. I'll be sure to update in the future if anything happens with this girl. If anyone has anything to say to me please message me directly. Thank you all so much.

Okay, will do. (Please note if you change your mind, we can always re-open for you).