Navigating a relationship with someone still healing

[Faithxxx]

I've been single and happy for a long time. I'm not one to jump into relationships and it truly does take someone special for me to get into something serious. 

Recently, I started dating a man. And I have absolutely fallen for him. He treats me very well and we are very compatible. We have a lot of fun, intimacy is great and we are just enjoying get to know each other. We are together five months now.  I can see and feel that he feels as I do. But there is a 'but'.

He is 21 months out of a very long term relationship- never married. They have two teenage children. From his account, the relationship had many issues, no romance, no intimacy, they both lost themselves and after 23 years together, the ex ended it. He admits that he was not happy but would have continued in it as he felt it was just normal. He moved out, they are still figuring out paperwork etc. He has regrets and has been trying to figure himself out. He's done a lot of thinking and healing but its still a journey of course. 

I entered the picture 16 months after he moved out. We are now together 5 months. Things have been wonderful. It's a new lease of life for both me and him. But there is still a lot of entanglement between him and ex. Although they have been living separately he comes and goes from their past family home in order to see their sons and their pets. They are still in legal discussions regarding the house and children. This sometimes causes arguments. They have a family WhatsApp group to organize things.  He has said himself that he questions if he is ready and that he wishes he met me a year further down the road when things were more stable. I pressured him to take a step back if he truly feels not ready for me and he said theres no way he's quitting what we have as he's falling in love. 

I too have children with an ex but we are 9 years broken up and so there are no issues. 

I am so happy with him but part of me feels like 'the other woman'. He has recently told the ex about me and this was a big step for him as he knew she would be very hurt. She responded by stating that they need to go no contact as much as they can.  I'm a bit disappointed that it takes her saying this for him to realize that they are too enmeshed. At the same time, any reading that I do on the subject says patience is key.

Happy to hear any advice. Not gonna lie, it will be very hard to go backwards in this relationship as it's so good.

Thank you!

[Massari]

 

36 minutes ago, Faithxxx said:

He has said himself that he questions if he is ready and that he wishes he met me a year further down the road when things were more stable. I pressured him to take a step back if he truly feels not ready for me and he said theres no way he's quitt

I can provide you a perspective from his side and let you be the judge. I am out of a 6 year marriage (8 years total together) and have a 3 year old. Nasty divorce, no contact order from court , both sides lawyered up and its a war. 

Silver lining in all this is that I am out a miserable, mentally abusive, relationship and marriage. Why did I stay? because of my son. Our intimacy was gone over a year ago. But I moved out physically from the apartment 3 months ago. 

I am at peace, and just taking everything step by step. I have worked on myself for 3 months, mental health improvement, quitting smoking, losing weight etc. Overall self improvement. Why? because I want to be somewhat ready to date again, i miss the intimacy, miss being with someone who is kind and caring and someone who can start building a relationship with and support and motivate each other for a better future. 

Your BF is going through alot. Divorce was the worst thing I could ever imagine. Deep down I know I am ready to date, I have met someone now and gone out a few times and things are going well. She also (like you) has concerns on whether or not I am "healed"? I think I am in a position that I can accept having someone entering to my life and taking things step by step. 

I don't think you should necessarily take a step back at this stage but try to be penitent with him and let things take their course. You are with him, he is with you. He is managing 2 separate ecosystem (you and his pervious life) and trying to avoid them colliding or overlapping with each other. The two will affect each other and it's up to him to manage this and decide if it's a positive affect or negative affect. 

I like to look at it like this, being a good father to my son now will enrich and make me a better partner for my future GF/Partner, similarly being a good partner will help me being a good father to my son! If you look at your situation like this it would make it easier for you to be patient with him and let things take their course. Assure him that you are there for him. 

[Kwothe28]

Its a risk for sure. Somebody not fully healed runs a risk of future problems. Like if push comes to show, choosing his wife and kids over you.

However, he does shows the signs of truly getting over it. Or at least coming there in time. Its not out of the ordinary for people to just move on. So if everything is going good, you can give it some more time and see if it goes well after it. 

[DarkCh0c0]

1 hour ago, Faithxxx said:

He is 21 months out of a very long term relationship- never married. They have two teenage children. From his account, the relationship had many issues, no romance, no intimacy, they both lost themselves and after 23 years together, the ex ended it. He admits that he was not happy but would have continued in it as he felt it was just normal. He moved out, they are still figuring out paperwork etc. He has regrets and has been trying to figure himself out.

Honestly, you're a rebound. He hadn't had time to finalize the divorce and he's not over this fiasco. 16 months to heal after 23 long years are not much time to untangle, process all kinds of emotions and understand what they need in a new partner (needs that are not "my ex was this quality so I want something different").

1 hour ago, Faithxxx said:

She responded by stating that they need to go no contact as much as they can.  I'm a bit disappointed that it takes her saying this for him to realize that they are too enmeshed

They are not yet fully over each other. At least he isn't since she's the one who broke up and initiated the boundary and divorce. I understand the disappointment.

1 hour ago, Faithxxx said:

At the same time, any reading that I do on the subject says patience is key.

If you want to stick around for the unknown ride, yes, patience is key. I'd keep taking things slow if I chose to stay. No moving in to each others or big commitments before the end of year two.

What does your gut tell you?

[rainbowsandroses]

2 hours ago, Faithxxx said:

She responded by stating that they need to go no contact as much as they can.  I'm a bit disappointed that it takes her saying this for him to realize that they are too enmeshed.

Think about this^ comment.

Translated (to me) it means once she decided to cut things off or take a major step back, he realized he still has strong feelings for her.

It's not uncommon.

Which begs the question, what was their relationship prior to her wanting to go no contact?  You said he goes back and forth between their home and his place?  

This isn't necessary, his sons can visit him at his and bring the pets. 

So it sounds to me like he goes to see HER.  That's my read on it.

Are they still sexual with each other?  Some couples whose sex life dried up when together end up having fabulous sex when apart!

Have you asked him?  I would!

Don't be afraid to ask the hard questions especially when things seem so off as they do here. 

2 hours ago, Faithxxx said:

they are still figuring out paperwork etc.

After two years?  They're not married,  what's to figure out?  He's stalling.

2 hours ago, Faithxxx said:

He has said himself that he questions if he is ready and that he wishes he met me a year further down the road when things were more stable. 

^This is a red flag and a stalling tactic with you!  I mean it's been two years already, what's gonna change in one more year?  Nothing, again it's a stalling tactic.  He's got you "on hold."

My read on this is he is majorly conflicted, he still has feelings for her, has feelings for you, doesn't know who or what he wants so does nothing essentially keeping you both uncertain and dangling.

SHE is being smart by stepping back and going NC.  So should you!  

If me, I would not ask him or pressure him to step back, *I* would step back and begin the process of disconnecting.  

You don't need his permission to take care of yourself and your own needs.

2 hours ago, Faithxxx said:

any reading that I do on the subject says patience is key.

^What are you reading?  Everything I've read says don't get involved with men who are still emotionally entangled with their ex's!

[rainbowsandroses]

2 hours ago, Faithxxx said:

He is 21 months out of a very long term relationship- never married.

2 hours ago, Faithxxx said:

after 23 years

I'm curious why they never got married, after 23 years together, children, a home?

Does he have something against marriage or is he fearful of making such a permanent commitment?

Have you asked him?

Do YOU see marriage in your future, with him or any man?

If you do, based on what little you've shared, he's not a good candidate for that imo.

Sorry don't mean to discourage you but I see a lot wrong about this and you'd be wise to step back and reassess if he's the right man and this is the right relationship for you no matter how intoxicating the chemistry. 

[Openreach]

Obviously hard to judge from afar but my perspective from personal experience of similar there's Red Flags aplenty here.

1. Regularly visiting to "just to see the kids and pets"

2. He only told her about you recently after 5 months. Do you know he's told her?

3. If he has told her is it to make her jealous?

4. Does she have someone else?

5. He tells you he has doubts if he's ready. Should he formally tell you it's over (for instance if she decides to give him another chance) he will repeat that he'd told you before that he wasn't sure.

6.The "entanglements" & the 20 years of emotional capital they've banked together.

7. There are hallmarks of a Rebound Relationship here- and whilst it's true that some rebounds work out most do not. 

It appears you've already felt something's off/ identified risks yourself from a gut feeling by posting for advice on here? Always trust your gut instincts and my advice would be to proceed with caution.

[Cherylyn]

I'll chime in with others,  he's on the rebound and he comes with a lot of baggage.  Accept the fact that you'll always have to share him with his ex and their children.  He will be involved with his grown adult children in the future.  He leads a very complicated,  frenetically busy life.  😒

I agree,  you'll have to have the patience of a saint and not complain because he is pulled in so many directions and unfortunately,  you are lowest on his priority list. 

Either remain with him and always be in standby mode or be with a man without strings attached. 

[Faithxxx]

6 hours ago, Massari said:

 

I can provide you a perspective from his side and let you be the judge. I am out of a 6 year marriage (8 years total together) and have a 3 year old. Nasty divorce, no contact order from court , both sides lawyered up and its a war. 

Silver lining in all this is that I am out a miserable, mentally abusive, relationship and marriage. Why did I stay? because of my son. Our intimacy was gone over a year ago. But I moved out physically from the apartment 3 months ago. 

I am at peace, and just taking everything step by step. I have worked on myself for 3 months, mental health improvement, quitting smoking, losing weight etc. Overall self improvement. Why? because I want to be somewhat ready to date again, i miss the intimacy, miss being with someone who is kind and caring and someone who can start building a relationship with and support and motivate each other for a better future. 

Your BF is going through alot. Divorce was the worst thing I could ever imagine. Deep down I know I am ready to date, I have met someone now and gone out a few times and things are going well. She also (like you) has concerns on whether or not I am "healed"? I think I am in a position that I can accept having someone entering to my life and taking things step by step. 

I don't think you should necessarily take a step back at this stage but try to be penitent with him and let things take their course. You are with him, he is with you. He is managing 2 separate ecosystem (you and his pervious life) and trying to avoid them colliding or overlapping with each other. The two will affect each other and it's up to him to manage this and decide if it's a positive affect or negative affect. 

I like to look at it like this, being a good father to my son now will enrich and make me a better partner for my future GF/Partner, similarly being a good partner will help me being a good father to my son! If you look at your situation like this it would make it easier for you to be patient with him and let things take their course. Assure him that you are there for him. 

Thank you for your perspective- him balancing two ecosystems is spot on and a useful way for me to look at it. I think he would say a lot of the things you've said on here.

[Faithxxx]

6 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

Honestly, you're a rebound. He hadn't had time to finalize the divorce and he's not over this fiasco. 16 months to heal after 23 long years are not much time to untangle, process all kinds of emotions and understand what they need in a new partner (needs that are not "my ex was this quality so I want something different").

They are not yet fully over each other. At least he isn't since she's the one who broke up and initiated the boundary and divorce. I understand the disappointment.

If you want to stick around for the unknown ride, yes, patience is key. I'd keep taking things slow if I chose to stay. No moving in to each others or big commitments before the end of year two.

What does your gut tell you?

Gut tells me that he's my guy, my match. Head is a lot more cautious....or is that my gut??? Who knows!

[rainbowsandroses]

32 minutes ago, Faithxxx said:

Gut tells me that he's my guy, my match. Head is a lot more cautious....or is that my gut??? Who knows!

^^Well sort of.  In your case I think your 'gut' is your emotional brain and your 'head' is your logical brain.

I think it's important to utilize both emotions AND logic when assessing a situation like this.  Perhaps with a bit more focus on logic since there are so many red flags.

I am wondering if you read my posts and considered even IF you don't wish to answer publicly on this forum.

I have been through this so have many other women I know and it never ended well!

One thing I do hope you will answer here is where did you read that "patience" is key?

I think the general consensus is waiting around for ANY man to decide who and what he wants is well, just not very smart and very VERY rarely works out well for the woman waiting.

Your love, kindness and patience will never move him closer to you and make him value you @Faithxxx.  Valuing yourself and as such distancing yourself at a time like this MIGHT!!

Just like his ex (or is she even really his "ex"?) is doing by going NC and look what happened?  According to your own words, he realized how "too enmeshed" he is with her!  

But your call, I hope it does work out. 

Hope the best, be prepared for the worst.

 

 

[ShySoul]

8 hours ago, Faithxxx said:

From his account, the relationship had many issues, no romance, no intimacy, they both lost themselves and after 23 years together, the ex ended it. He admits that he was not happy but would have continued in it as he felt it was just normal

Just my take, but based off of this I don't think he's looking for anything more with her or isn't over her. I think it's a relationship that ended long ago but neither side faced that reality until a couple of years ago. They just got used to it and continued on with the same unfullfilling routine. Maybe the stayed together for the children. Maybe it was just easier then the truth, having to deal with all the complications that come from a divorce. But there wasn't love there before, and I doubt there is love there now.

My parents went through something similar. The love was fading long before they could come to terms with it and my mom finally did something about it.

8 hours ago, Faithxxx said:

But there is still a lot of entanglement between him and ex. Although they have been living separately he comes and goes from their past family home in order to see their sons and their pets. They are still in legal discussions regarding the house and children.

The unfortunate reality is that there will always be a lot of entanglement in the form of their sons. They can't really go no contact. What if there is an emergency involving the children? 

They can limit contact. They can set time for him with the children outside the home. They can come up with all kinds of alternate plans. But they will always be a part of each other's life. That is something all three adults need to come to terms accepting and figuring out how they feel about it.

As for the legal discussions, that can take time. Are there other factors that complicate matters? Is one person holding it up? 

8 hours ago, Faithxxx said:

He has said himself that he questions if he is ready and that he wishes he met me a year further down the road when things were more stable. I pressured him to take a step back if he truly feels not ready for me and he said theres no way he's quitting what we have as he's falling in love. 

It is natural for him to have questions on if he is ready. Of course it would have been easier if this was a year out and things weren't still in process. But look at his answer. He's not quitting on you. He said he's falling in love. You gave him the chance to walk away. He didn't cry about what he's lost. He didn't go running back to the ex. He didn't treat you as the other woman. He treated you as THE woman, the one he wants to be with.

Yes, he probably wishes you came along a year later. It would have been easier. But you came along now. And he isn't regretting that. He's grabbing onto it and doesn't want to let go.

It's not going to be easy. There will be things to work through, boundaries for each person to set. Both of you will have your doubts and times you question what to do. But both of you seem committed to each other. Both of you seem to love each other. So see where that can take you. 

[rainbowsandroses]

FWIW, below a clip from Gray's Anatomy wherein Derek was involved with both Meredith and his estranged wife Addison.

At the end of the video clip Meredith asks Derek to "choose me."   ***Cringe***.

Addison on the other hand chose to distance herself and move on!

Guess who he chose?  Addison!!

I realize it's just a TV show but this shyt happens in real life just like now!

Again pay attention.

In your case, a REAL life situation, his "ex" chose to distance and go NC.  In response, HE realized he was "too enmeshed" with her.  Hate to say, but he may very well decide to get back together with her.

JMO.

 

 

 

 

 

[catfeeder]

6 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Does he have something against marriage or is he fearful of making such a permanent commitment?

Have you asked him?

Do YOU see marriage in your future, with him or any man?

These ^^^ would be the important questions I'd ask myself. What we don't know is, are these your fertility years and you envision marriage and children of your own in your future? If so, it sounds as though you're likely barking up the wrong tree. On the other hand, if you're past fertility and don't envision marriage for yourself, then you may be more equipped to continue sharing this man with his teenage children, and possibly his ex.

It sounds as though, up until now, his visitation has been involving his ex at their family home. This may have been comfortable and even enjoyable for both of them while she was under the impression that he was continuing to audition for their return to a 23 year status quo. But now that he's told her about his involvement with you, she's suddenly putting the breaks on their 'contact,' and he'll need to learn whether visitation with his kids outside of the comfy family home is something he'll want to adjust to.

So you get to decide whether you're up for the risk of being a casualty should that not work well for him.

[ShySoul]

12 hours ago, Faithxxx said:

I'm a bit disappointed that it takes her saying this for him to realize that they are too enmeshed. At the same time, any reading that I do on the subject says patience is key.

This is a person who stayed in a love less marriage without seeing there were healthier alternatives. She had to leave him. He seems content with the status quo unless something pushes him to change it. There's not necessarily anything wrong with that. But it might be helpful to know his tendency and that you may need to give a little push now and then.

Again I'd look at his response. She wanted to stop contact. He didn't get broken up about it. He didn't start wanting to be with her more and rediscover his love for her. He said they were too enmeshed. He saw they were too intertwined and that it might be good to take a step back. And who is there with him? You. In my experience its out of sight, out of mind. This is an opportunity. You can spend the time together, grow closer. Being away from his ex is a good thing. Its moving him away from her and toward you, which is what you want.

And keep in mind, he felt strongly enough about you to tell the ex. He did it because he thinks this is serious. Telling her was a way of respecting what they had and her feelings, while taking steps to move on himself. In a way its saying to her that it is really over because I have someone else. She was the one who had the problem and didn't want to see him. If anyone isn't over things, I'd say it is her.

[yogacat]

What are you afraid of exactly? That he still holds residual feelings for his ex? It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like 1. He was complacent in his previous relationship and wasn't aware of how bad his situation was. To be honest that's really common, people lose themselves and their intuition and fall into the motions of routine. 

Anyway, his living situation will not last forever. Once they sort out their legal matters, he will be able to cut contact more easily. 

Like you said, you can't go backwards...

You're both out of relationships with children at very different points in time, 21 months and 9 years. He still has some baggage. 

The issue for you is that 5 months in is 1. reputedly a little early to be making big life changes anyway and 2. it looks like you're being thrown into the deep end right at the start of getting to know him, which can be scary because you've basically just joined a tag team where you have another person judging your every move and having opinions on your exploits at this tender stage.

You also don't want to become 2nd fiddle to his ex. It sounds like though he's bringing you up to speed and sounds serious about you.

I don't have much advice, except to follow your intuition, because if you start calling shots without knowing what's really going on, you can mess things up for all of you. Him, you and the kids.

You seem like a very self aware and intuitive person. Talk to him about your worries. At the end of the day, it's better for you to know his motivations and reciprocate his feelings rather than pretending it's plain sailing. 

His ex would be hurt when he told her about you he said, and in turn, I suppose that is why she said it's best they limit contact (which sounds like a good idea). All you can do now is sit back and watch how he handles the relationship with her. 

[Openreach]

7 hours ago, ShySoul said:

And keep in mind, he felt strongly enough about you to tell the ex. He did it because he thinks this is serious. Telling her was a way of respecting what they had and her feelings, while taking steps to move on himself. In a way its saying to her that it is really over because I have someone else.

That's a big assumption to make tbh. It could be just as possible that he's told her of his new relationship just to manipulate her with a power play to make her jealous. Because after telling the "ex" she gets to thinking of them having happy times, of having sex, and that she risks losing him forever plus forcing her emotions to ask herself if she can get now get him back from this other woman. It's important to remember that he is the dumpee and not the dumper.

By saying he's in a relationship he's regaining his power by stating he's now unavailable - and people want want they can't have.

[Faithxxx]

18 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

 

Quote

Translated (to me) it means once she decided to cut things off or take a major step back, he realized he still has strong feelings for her.

Quote

 

  You said he goes back and forth between their home and his place?  

This isn't necessary, his sons can visit him at his and bring the pets. 

 

 

After two years?  They're not married,  what's to figure out?  He's stalling.

^This is a red flag and a stalling tactic with you!  I mean it's been two years already, what's gonna change in one more year?  Nothing, again it's a stalling tactic.  He's got you "on hold."

My read on this is he is majorly conflicted, he still has feelings for her, has feelings for you, doesn't know who or what he wants so does nothing essentially keeping you both uncertain and dangling.

^What are you reading?  Everything I've read says don't get involved with men who are still emotionally entangled with their ex's!

Thank for offering your opinion. Apologies if this post is all over the place. I can't do the quote thing properly.

To answer some of your questions/address your points:

Yes the kids and pets do come to his place. But he was coming and going freely to collect them. He had a key and they were both okay with this. I guess up to this point, he didn't have a girlfriend and they both allowed this level of familiarity. Once he told her that he has a girlfriend then she requested that this type of familiarity stop and he agreed that this is for the best. I know in his mind, he is resentful that she is still in the big house that they built while he is renting an apartment. She calls him for minor repairs and such and so that was the dynamic that was there before I came along.

Most of their conversations are done through text. They are quite formal. There is no fun friendly dynamic here. He said that it is tense and they only speak when necessary. Nevertheless, there is familiarity and the love that comes from having a family with someone. 

She doesn't want to put the house up for sale. He does. He is paying half the mortgage and utilities as well as rent on his own place. I think he felt that he has a 'right' to just walk in. Obviously he doesn't. I let him know what I thought about that. But yeah it unsettles me that he hadn't detached himself enough to put that in place.

I've been reading various forum where people who are separated and divorced are speaking about their experiences on moving on.

 

[Faithxxx]

17 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I'm curious why they never got married, after 23 years together, children, a home?

Does he have something against marriage or is he fearful of making such a permanent commitment?

They were engaged but the marriage never happened. a few years in they were having lots of issues and all talk of marriage just stopped but they continued to stay in a relationship. They went through good patches and bad patches but overall he says they just acted like friends who had children.

He;s not against marriage. He says he would like to get married in the future. I am in my late 40's. Marriage was not something that I dreamed about but I now that I've met him, I can see it happening. 

[Faithxxx]

14 hours ago, Openreach said:

1. Regularly visiting to "just to see the kids and pets"

Regular visits to his kids are not a red flag to me. My ex also visits to see his kids. The red flag that I see here is that my boyfriend's visits are unscheduled because he has that feeling that its still his home. 

2. He only told her about you recently after 5 months. Do you know he's told her?

Well unless he a lying psychopath then yes. He set up a meeting with her, sat her down and told her that he has met someone and is moving on with his life. We discussed it in detail that night.

3. If he has told her is it to make her jealous?

He told her because she needs to know. He was feeling self conscious when out in public with me and was worried that it would get back to her before he told her himself. He also felt that it was a necessary step in the moving on process. Did he like the fact that she got upset/jealous? I don't know. 

4. Does she have someone else?

No.

5. He tells you he has doubts if he's ready. Should he formally tell you it's over (for instance if she decides to give him another chance) he will repeat that he'd told you before that he wasn't sure.

That's fine. He would be right. He did tell me

6.The "entanglements" & the 20 years of emotional capital they've banked together.

Also fine. He's in his fifties. No one that age comes without baggage of some sort. Its obvious that they will have emotional attachment and entanglements. HOW he handles those entanglements is what is important to me. How he shows respect to me AND her matters to me.

 

 

[Faithxxx]

12 hours ago, catfeeder said:

These ^^^ would be the important questions I'd ask myself. What we don't know is, are these your fertility years and you envision marriage and children of your own in your future? If so, it sounds as though you're likely barking up the wrong tree. On the other hand, if you're past fertility and don't envision marriage for yourself, then you may be more equipped to continue sharing this man with his teenage children, and possibly his ex.

No, my children are almost adults. We are done there. As for marriage- not a priority but I see myself marrying him. Obviously its too early to be thinking that way but ...yeah, I see that happening. 

It sounds as though, up until now, his visitation has been involving his ex at their family home. This may have been comfortable and even enjoyable for both of them while she was under the impression that he was continuing to audition for their return to a 23 year status quo.

Considering that she was the one who ended things, I don't think she wants him back at all. However she did get upset when he told her about me. I think that both of them had been together for so long that its almost unthinkable for them to imagine either of them being with someone else. He has admitted to me that he wants her to be happy, he wants her to move on but that he will struggle when she does. This hurts to hear. No girlfriend wants to hear that. But I do understand. I still get a little jealous when my ex gets a girlfriend and we've been over for a looong time. I think its an ego/ownership thing that comes when you've made a family with someone. 

 

[Batya33]

28 minutes ago, Faithxxx said:

They were engaged but the marriage never happened. a few years in they were having lots of issues and all talk of marriage just stopped but they continued to stay in a relationship. They went through good patches and bad patches but overall he says they just acted like friends who had children.

He;s not against marriage. He says he would like to get married in the future. I am in my late 40's. Marriage was not something that I dreamed about but I now that I've met him, I can see it happening. 

Did he use that passive language about a marriage that "never happened?"  How odd.  They chose to have children together and if it was during the rough patches that's maybe a bit concerning? Friends who have children co-parent and live separately with rare exception.  I'd be on alert- yellow flag as to me I would be thinking the past and the present have some gaps/vague stuff and it's not really adding up who they are to each other.

[Faithxxx]

14 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

I'll chime in with others,  he's on the rebound and he comes with a lot of baggage.  Accept the fact that you'll always have to share him with his ex and their children.  He will be involved with his grown adult children in the future.  He leads a very complicated,  frenetically busy life.  😒

I agree,  you'll have to have the patience of a saint and not complain because he is pulled in so many directions and unfortunately,  you are lowest on his priority list. 

Either remain with him and always be in standby mode or be with a man without strings attached. 

Hmmm not sure about this. He certainly does not make me feel like I'm last on his last. He does prioritize me. Obviously his children come first. I could not respect him if that wasn't the case. I'm only in his life 5 months. Its early days for us. Its not everyday you meet someone who is such a good match-that's not something to throw away. However, Yes I wish he was further along in the healing process, yes I wish he felt as READY as I am. 

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, Faithxxx said:

Hmmm not sure about this. He certainly does not make me feel like I'm last on his last. He does prioritize me. Obviously his children come first. I could not respect him if that wasn't the case. I'm only in his life 5 months. Its early days for us. Its not everyday you meet someone who is such a good match-that's not something to throw away. However, Yes I wish he was further along in the healing process, yes I wish he felt as READY as I am. 

He is an involved father. I'd question whether it was good for the kids growing up in that sort of environment/why they had kids if they weren't compatible etc.  Also are they common law married?

[Faithxxx]

14 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Did he use that passive language about a marriage that "never happened?"  How odd.  They chose to have children together and if it was during the rough patches that's maybe a bit concerning? Friends who have children co-parent and live separately with rare exception.  I'd be on alert- yellow flag as to me I would be thinking the past and the present have some gaps/vague stuff and it's not really adding up who they are to each other.

To be honest Batya, their whole relationship is concerning to me. I don't understand staying in something that isn't working for so long. However I see it in so many couples. I can name three close friends that have children with their partners and yet their relationships are just terrible.

Yes he used that passive language. In general I would say he has quite a passive personality- never wants to cause confrontation. I encouraged him to dig deeper and question why the marriage never happened. He said he thinks that perhaps deep down they both knew that the relationship just wasn't good enough. Then they had twins and there was some medical complications with them. Life was busy and at that point, they just continued on with the relationship and marriage was never mentioned again. They had good patches but overall the bad was the normal. He admits that he thought very little about it and was happy to just leave things as they were. He said they were both very unhappy but he didn't realize quite how much until now. He had gotten unhealthy and overweight, she was depressed.