Seraphim Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 26 minutes ago, itsallgrand said: I had to think on this one. Thanks for adding more info. How is your mom doing now? It sounds like there's been growing resentment here and this sort of was the thing that tipped it over. It sounds like you haven't been feeling like your friend has your back for a while and been feeling a little bit used with all the expectations for driving and seeing each other? I mean, I think how she handled this situation is craptactular. She should have been upfront. She should have asked if she wanted her daughter to go instead and figured that out with you. I love you to bits but I'm surprised you didn't offer for her to try and salvage the trip by suggesting she try to find someone else to go and not worrying about your part of the ticket. Because yes, emergencies happen, that's life, but she still was left hanging with a possible non refund and scrambling situation. I suspect this is because you feel she wouldn't do this for you? I'm sorry this is all happening now. You are already bogged in caretaking and trying to navigate all the bumps of having your mom living with you and your husband gone most of the time. Sure you didn't need or want another thing on top. That is the thing . It is the expectation that I will put out the expenditure of travel and do the travel because I drive and have a car. She has even said to me your husband makes over 6 figures you can travel and take financial loss I can’t . So it is EXPECTED because we are better off and she is “ poor”. In other words I shouldn’t care about my losses because you know there is always more . I went at least 10 times since I moved and 0 times has she come to see me . She is always commenting that we shouldn’t care about prices because of what my husband makes. Well news flash we aren’t independently wealthy. Plus she told me a few years ago my kids and family come before any friend ( as it should be ) but when I do the same she is mad . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgrand Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 I totally get why you'd be upset by that. Those expectations aren't fair at all. That's not how any of this works! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 1 minute ago, itsallgrand said: I totally get why you'd be upset by that. Those expectations aren't fair at all. That's not how any of this works! Exactly . My husband drove her home from work for 4 years . I did it for 3. I also gave her a job after our work peed us over and phased us out . I paid her income tax on that income for 3 years but now I am a jerk ? As my mother says don’t be so nice . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfeeder Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 14 hours ago, Seraphim said: 1. I paid sent her $ 130 for the basic spa package three weeks ago. 2. I paid $100 for my share of the hotel. 3. My mom lost her crown the night before I was to go. Her root was exposed and causing bad pain. 4. I contacted my friend immediately and said I couldn’t go I had to take my mom to her dentist. 5. She said , “ drive your mom to your brother’s and leave her there , he can take her and then come back and get me and then we can go to the spa and you can go back and get her and then go home.” That would have been a 2000 KM set of trips in that for me. My mom can’t stay at my brothers. There’s no bedroom for her and they don’t have a bathroom on the main level and she can’t climb stairs or go downstairs. Plus he could be away. He’s often not home. 6. she told me nothing could be changed. Everything was not refundable and was canceled. 7. I see on Facebook that she went and got her daughter to drive her and go with her . I waited two days for her to mention it. 8. this morning I text her and said I see you went. Can you possibly send me my money back? She sent me a message saying absolutely not your money you had to forfeit and my daughter bought her own ticket and I said that may be however, I still paid for half of the hotel that she used. All I got back was well my daughter had to take two days off work to take me. Never asked about me never asked about my mother, nothing . No acknowledgement that maybe I missed out on going to the spa and none of this was my fault. It wasn’t anybody’s fault. It was just something that happened. Oh, dear. I’m so sorry, Seraphim. I still can’t comprehend why anyone would opt to behave like such an incredible ass, to anyone, much less to a long time friend. I can appreciate how hard this must be for you to grasp. The loss is certainly hers, and you’re right, that is disappointing. When one door closes another opens. I wish for you a wonderful and happy relationship with the lovely person who will come into your life next. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgrand Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 17 minutes ago, Seraphim said: Exactly . My husband drove her home from work for 4 years . I did it for 3. I also gave her a job after our work peed us over and phased us out . I paid her income tax on that income for 3 years but now I am a jerk ? As my mother says don’t be so nice . Some people get way too comfy living by the helping hands of others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 7 minutes ago, itsallgrand said: Some people get way too comfy living by the helping hands of others. That’s what I think happened. It became an expectation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeDee Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Sadly I think this woman has been using you for years. You are just waking up to that fact. Sayonara 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogacat Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Your friend is a user of sorts and little by absolute little has been taking advantage. Awful, truly awful. And you’re right...expectation instead of friendship. You did the right thing, for now...now just keep quiet and do not say a word. Believe me your friend is probably almost bursting inside and is fully expecting that you will shout her a cappuccino next time you see her, chat as usual, be friends as usual. This silence will definitely make her realize that the crock is now shattered. Keep it up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted July 27 Author Share Posted July 27 18 hours ago, TeeDee said: Sadly I think this woman has been using you for years. You are just waking up to that fact. Sayonara My mom has told me this several times over the years. My mom can be elitist like my brother and they feel you should have friends that match your place in life and education and intelligence etc. I feel I am much more egalitarian and I don’t mind where people are from or education etc . I want the effort to be there. That is what is important to me. But the effort isn’t there anymore. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShySoul Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 I completely support you and think this person has been taking advantage of your kindness for some time. This was just the straw that broke the camels back. You don't need that anymore. Just curious, was this a specific specialist that your mom had to go to? Nine hours seems a tad far. Any chance you can get a closer dentist in case of future emergencies? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted July 27 Author Share Posted July 27 1 minute ago, ShySoul said: I completely support you and think this person has been taking advantage of your kindness for some time. This was just the straw that broke the camels back. You don't need that anymore. Just curious, was this a specific specialist that your mom had to go to? Nine hours seems a tad far. Any chance you can get a closer dentist in case of future emergencies? Thank you for the support . My mom has severe medical phobia like I do. She wanted her dentist to put the crown back in . Due to our move her dentist is now 500 KM away and once you do 3 , 40 minute bathroom trips and a 2 hour food break it becomes 9 hours and then an overnight stay and drive home the next day after her 1 PM appointment. It takes 2 days and 18 hours of driving . She couldn’t understand I am respecting my mom and her wishes and feelings . She said her mom was EVERYTHING before she died but I can’t feel the same about my mom though . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted July 27 Author Share Posted July 27 I wanted to say too my mom does drive and has her own car but the drive is way too long for her and she needs walkers and canes to get around . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogacat Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 On 7/25/2024 at 7:54 AM, Seraphim said: We were supposed to go to a day spa this week. I sent her the EMT and she booked the spa . The night before my mom had a crown pop off and I had to take my mom 9 hours to her dentist and 9 hours back home again. OP, why is her dentist 9 hours away? Is there not a dentist closer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShySoul Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 You're a saint for doing all that for her. My mother can't get around well either and doesn't drive, so she has to rely on people to take her for appointments. Her children are too far away and very few in the family are willing to help out. I don't see anyone being willing to spend two days to take her to the doctor of her choice. I can see why the friends actions would be extra upsetting for you after doing all that. It's already stressful just dealing with your mother, you didn't need anything else and was probably already on edge. Take a breather and reward yourself with something nice. You earned it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted July 27 Author Share Posted July 27 15 minutes ago, yogacat said: OP, why is her dentist 9 hours away? Is there not a dentist closer? We just moved here a few months ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted July 27 Author Share Posted July 27 22 minutes ago, ShySoul said: You're a saint for doing all that for her. My mother can't get around well either and doesn't drive, so she has to rely on people to take her for appointments. Her children are too far away and very few in the family are willing to help out. I don't see anyone being willing to spend two days to take her to the doctor of her choice. I can see why the friends actions would be extra upsetting for you after doing all that. It's already stressful just dealing with your mother, you didn't need anything else and was probably already on edge. Take a breather and reward yourself with something nice. You earned it. I do have a lot of responsibilities, my mom and I have an adult disabled child that I have to take all over as well. And most of the time I have worked. I haven’t this summer but Sept is back to work. Plus my husband is posted 5 hours away until who knows . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morello Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 I guess this is all about expectations. Some people (like me, sometimes) do a lot for other people and expect things in return. In return, we might get, in some (but not all) cases... not much. So when we feel like the other person crossed the line (sometimes after a few years of resentment), we then might wanna cross them from our lives and move on. These friends or family members would then sometimes feel shocked about this decision, as they did not see it coming, but for us, it could have been in the making for a while. It's hard to be always on the 'expecting side'. I know we should not do things for others and expect anything in return, but the reality is a bit different. I do not believe in pure altruism. As I began to mature a bit and learn more about basic human psychology, I realised we can 'train' other people's expectations by adjusting how much we offer them if we feel that relationship is unbalanced. The more we offer, the more they expect. Once I start to balance my offerings a bit and offer a bit less of my time/effort/caring, I tend to see that my true friends will positively adjust and start pulling their weight a bit more. So I do try to give them the opportunity of adjusting to my new offerings, if that makes sense. Not everyone will be able to realise the writing on the wall adjust like this, but these are probably not the friends or family members you want to be too much around. For example, In Seraphim's case, she was very kind to always drive to see her friend, so the friend got used to it and now expects it. Lousy from the friend, I know, but that's the situation now. Not everyone has the social cues to understand they might be actually being the bad friend/sibling/etc. If Seraphim starts replacing most of those in-person visits with video/phone calls instead, by saying that she does not have as much time or money to keep the travelling going but still cherishes the friendship and would love it if the friend was willing to come down for a visit sometime (acknowledging that it might be hard to do). She can then see if the friend can make an effort to "meet her in the middle.", i.e., making an effort to travel to see Seraphim or at the very least demonstrate some additional effort. It might not happen, but it does appear to be a fairer way to go than just crossing people from our lives. On the other hand, there is no right or wrong in this. Sometimes it's just too much water under the bridge. Seraphim, you might continue to cherish her as a friend but now from a distance, as others said, and focus on other people to spend your valuable time with. But making and keeping friends as an adult is difficult, and there's usually some challenging grieving involved when we let them go, especially for older friendships/relationships. In this case, I think both could have acted a little wiser, but I totally sympathise with your feelings and 'validate' that you don't seem to be getting what you deserve from this friendship. Only you can decide how you really feel about all of this, but I suggest giving it time and not acting while you're still upset about it. The right answer will probably come with time. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LootieTootie Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Oh Sera, you and your husband were too good to her. Its her loss. I also do think she used you guys and she seems out of touch. Just because someone makes 6 figures in a 1st world country, it doesn't mean their wealthy - not in the present world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 12 hours ago, Morello said: I guess this is all about expectations. Some people (like me, sometimes) do a lot for other people and expect things in return. In return, we might get, in some (but not all) cases... not much. So when we feel like the other person crossed the line (sometimes after a few years of resentment), we then might wanna cross them from our lives and move on. These friends or family members would then sometimes feel shocked about this decision, as they did not see it coming, but for us, it could have been in the making for a while. It's hard to be always on the 'expecting side'. I know we should not do things for others and expect anything in return, but the reality is a bit different. I do not believe in pure altruism. As I began to mature a bit and learn more about basic human psychology, I realised we can 'train' other people's expectations by adjusting how much we offer them if we feel that relationship is unbalanced. The more we offer, the more they expect. Once I start to balance my offerings a bit and offer a bit less of my time/effort/caring, I tend to see that my true friends will positively adjust and start pulling their weight a bit more. So I do try to give them the opportunity of adjusting to my new offerings, if that makes sense. Not everyone will be able to realise the writing on the wall adjust like this, but these are probably not the friends or family members you want to be too much around. For example, In Seraphim's case, she was very kind to always drive to see her friend, so the friend got used to it and now expects it. Lousy from the friend, I know, but that's the situation now. Not everyone has the social cues to understand they might be actually being the bad friend/sibling/etc. If Seraphim starts replacing most of those in-person visits with video/phone calls instead, by saying that she does not have as much time or money to keep the travelling going but still cherishes the friendship and would love it if the friend was willing to come down for a visit sometime (acknowledging that it might be hard to do). She can then see if the friend can make an effort to "meet her in the middle.", i.e., making an effort to travel to see Seraphim or at the very least demonstrate some additional effort. It might not happen, but it does appear to be a fairer way to go than just crossing people from our lives. On the other hand, there is no right or wrong in this. Sometimes it's just too much water under the bridge. Seraphim, you might continue to cherish her as a friend but now from a distance, as others said, and focus on other people to spend your valuable time with. But making and keeping friends as an adult is difficult, and there's usually some challenging grieving involved when we let them go, especially for older friendships/relationships. In this case, I think both could have acted a little wiser, but I totally sympathise with your feelings and 'validate' that you don't seem to be getting what you deserve from this friendship. Only you can decide how you really feel about all of this, but I suggest giving it time and not acting while you're still upset about it. The right answer will probably come with time. That is the thing. She got a lot and expected a lot . I have decided to let it lay and she will contact me or not . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 11 hours ago, LootieTootie said: Oh Sera, you and your husband were too good to her. Its her loss. I also do think she used you guys and she seems out of touch. Just because someone makes 6 figures in a 1st world country, it doesn't mean their wealthy - not in the present world. Exactly, it doesn’t make us wealthy or expected to give what we live on away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smackie9 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 This sort of thing happened to me and my husband. Our friend gave us a story he needed the money for a down payment on a car and will pay us back in a few days when he gets paid. So we forked out $400 bucks. Well the day came and went so we called his work. We were told he was fired two weeks before. We suspect he left the province because he got into some trouble with drugs just from what his boss told us. This happened like 30 years ago and I still think about it from time to time. I tell myself he felt really bad for doing that to us because he acted kinda nervous. I don't think he alive anymore...rough life. Sad. It sucks because your kindness was taken from granted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted August 20 Author Share Posted August 20 I called my friend yesterday to tell her the outcome of my diabetic appointment and we just talked like we normally did. I guess things will be ok but I won’t be putting out money . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShySoul Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 If you can forgive her, you are truly a remarkable person. Hope the friendship can last. I'd still be careful and watch it. And the bank of seraphim should be permanently closed. 🤑 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 16 minutes ago, ShySoul said: If you can forgive her, you are truly a remarkable person. Hope the friendship can last. I'd still be careful and watch it. And the bank of seraphim should be permanently closed. 🤑 I tend to forgive easily but for sure I will watch my money more carefully . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dear Intuition Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 Be honest with her, and most importantly, be honest with yourself. What are you hiding from yourself that you haven’t wanted to see about this friend? It may come as a surprise the hidden cost of being a friend with someone who would leave you in the lurch after apparently using your money and lying about the spa day details. She may not have been honest with you in the past. But if this is a first time deal, then what is she going through? It would be helpful to ask her what’s going on to get a read on whether this is a personality quirk or a symptom of something pressing on her mind. After your initial introspection, it will be time to ask her. Be straightforward about what you found out, and ask all of the questions you need. In kindness and without judgment, you will either get answers or you will see a triggered friend. Either way, it will make it clear who you’re dealing with and what you will need to do next. You get to decide whether you want to spend time with someone who cannot face their own battles, or if there is more than meets the eye to this story. (I've intuited this message for you. It's useful and fun. I hope you find this helpful.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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