You can learn a lot about someone by what they lack

[rainbowsandroses]

42 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

Which is what I think is the best way to deal with things period. If a person is upset or has a problem, half the time they are just looking to be heard. So just hear them out. Take the person for who they are, where they are at that point of time. Then nudge them to see a different perspective.

You catch more flies with honey.

Thanks for this^..  My dear late dad was like this with me.  Very gentle, he would take the time to listen and then guide me towards reframing the situation in a kind way.  

My mom on the other hand was quite harsh and direct!

I know what gaslighting is and she wasn't gaslighting. 

I liken it to Cher's character in "Moonstruck" when she rather harshly told Nick Cage when he was ranting about his ex "Snap Out Of It"!!! 

That's how my mom was and it often worked !!  Not sure why her harsh direct style had more of an impact but it did!  

For me now, towards others, my style is a dichotomy of sorts. 

Depending on the situation and person, I can be both extremely compassionate at times and quite blunt and direct at times. 

I would never be as harsh as my mom with her "Snap Out of It!!" style because I did find that hurtful even though at the end of the day, it did have more of an impact. 

Try and figure that one out!  

My therapist thinks my mom is the reason I choose the men I do, become attracted to the men I do.

But then ultimately reject them for not being like my dad! 

I think there is truth to that on some level, trying to sort it all out now. 

 

[Cherylyn]

On 7/23/2024 at 5:38 PM, Batya33 said:

Absolutely. And I'm not going to be accused of something I did not say or where it's taken so far out of whack/out of recognition that sensitive or not or whatever there is no way it ever could have been taken that way including how I said it.  Depending on the situation I still will express that I am sorry the person is hurting/offended, etc.  

For example- accusing someone of copying someone on an email when that person was not copied such that -if the accuser was correct and you had, then the words of the email would take on a different import, a different sort of message.  Sure you say you can "prove" you didn't -unless the email is gone and/or the person assumes you bcc'd the person.  That is not "speech" but it sure is communication especially in today's world.  

I was once accused of laughing at someone's comment on FB.  Because I clicked on the laugh emoji instead of the thumbs up emoji by accident.  It wasn't like I laughed at a tragedy but for sure it would have been offensive had I laughed at what she wrote.  Except it was a mistake-one which I rectified when it was pointed out.  So -really? I'm supposed to apologize for intentionally laughing at someone? Same can happen in public -you laugh at a joke at dinner with a group and someone assumes you were laughing at them -but you weren't. 

Many years ago my friend's father suddenly passed away.  She was bereft, flattened -of course! She asked me to please call a number of our mutual friends about funeral arrangements so she could attend to her mother and -you know -everything! Of course I did. I called our old friend M from school. M said -why didn't she call me herself?? I explained -well -she is grieving and she wanted me to spread the word about her father's passing and when the funeral will be.  Well -M was - offended.  That she hadn't been called personally.  And refused to go.  So - my grieving friend was supposed to -apologize?? If I remember correctly I simply told my friend that M could not make it - no way was I going to share that information with my grieving friend.  

So yes there are many examples where I might say "I hear that you are offended that you didn't receive a personal invitation to the funeral but that's not how it was intended." If that is gaslighting so be it.  

How you say it makes or breaks the conversation,  dialogue whether written or verbal.  People are often painted as sensitive which is unkind because people do have feelings after all.  I've been called 'sensitive,' 'passing judgment' and those typical gaslighting type comments.  I don't talk back though.  I simply don't want to associate nor be with that person anymore.  Or,  if they're unavoidable,  I enforce strict boundaries with them.  If a person is truly sorry for offending and hurting,  while that's all well and good,  it stops short of saying why they're sorry for offending and hurting.  I want to know why they're sorry for hurting.  I want to hear them admit their mistake and wrongdoing.  That right there is expressing humility.  I don't like deflection and diversion.  I tend to respect a person more if they take responsibility for why I'm offended or hurt.  If not,  again,  the relationship is dying or dead to me.  I get up and walk away.  🚶‍♀️

As for copying and pasting,  if it's true,  sure,  admit and humbly apologize.  That should rest on a person's conscience whether there's evidence or not.  If the offense was ignored (if there was a real offense) it's very telling of a person's character.  Beware. 

Regarding the accidental laugh.  If it were me in written form,  I'd simply write:  "Oops!  I'm sorry I accidentally clicked on the laugh emoji instead of the like button."  That should take care of it.  It's better to make peace immediately instead of prolonging unnecessary slights even if it was an accident. 

About the funeral.  Since you've explained to M,  that was enough.  In the future,  say, "Don't shoot the messenger!"  No, that was not gaslighting. 

Gaslighting,  again,  is the perpetrator manipulating you to change your perception of the facts.  For example,  instead of explaining and sincerely apologizing for the offense itself,  the perpetrator calls you too sensitive,  judgmental,  I'm sorry you took it the wrong way,  blah,  blah,  blah.  It's deflection and diversion tactics to deliberately throw you off track during the conversation,  confuse you and you're left defending yourself as you clear your name.  I've experienced this recently.  Last week to be exact.  It just reaffirms that this type of individual lacks emotional intelligence meaning there's lack of emotional maturity.  This person never grew up and they're a child stuck in an adult's body.  You can't fix it.  Gaslighting is a typical narcissistic trait.  It's fine though.  It's very telling to me to steer clear of these narcissists because they're not good for your life.  The best thing I had ever done was to regain control over my own life.  I no longer interact with those who don't know how to behave honorably and treat people with respect and dignity.  Narcissists be gone.  🤗

 

[ShySoul]

On 8/24/2024 at 7:52 PM, rainbowsandroses said:

My therapist thinks my mom is the reason I choose the men I do, become attracted to the men I do.

But then ultimately reject them for not being like my dad! 

If only you could find the hybrid that give the best of both worlds. All things in moderation. Know when to be direct versus when to apply the softer touch. Finding someone that knows that right balance for you can feel like an impossible quest. 

Hope you can find him.

Don't want to think about how my parents have influnced those I'm interested in. Probably by getting me to seek the inverse of most of what I saw.

[Cherylyn]

On 7/23/2024 at 1:49 AM, SherrySher said:

If they are constantly shifting the blame onto you, or others, they lack accountability.

If they are accusing you of always trying to start arguments, they lack communication skills.

If they call you too sensitive, they lack emotional intelligence.

And lastly, if they aren't making an effort such as calling or texting first, checking in to see how you are.  If they aren't using words or actions to make you feel important to them on a daily, they lack true interest in you.

What are your thoughts?

 

Shifting blame onto you and lacking accountability = Gaslighting.

Accusing you of starting arguments = Gaslighting. 

Lack of communications skills = Incapable of sustaining normal relationships.

If they don't call or text first,  check to see how you are,  not use their words or actions to make you important on the daily?  They lack interest in you?  I don't always text first to check how others are.  I don't use my words and actions to make others feel important daily.  I will text,  call,  have interest,  check how others are doing with my words and actions within reason.  Daily is excessive and I wouldn't expect others to constantly contact me daily either. 

However,   gaslighting and lack of communication skills are major deal breakers.  👎  ☹️  These types of people are high maintenance,  will give you chronic angst and stress as long as you allow them to.  I no longer grant them permission to mentally abuse me.  😒

Narcissists are experts at gaslighting.  Live and learn.  😠