Advice on leaving a friend, his character and actions?

[HesAlone]

My heart is broken. My friend and I recently had a heated conversation. I shared with him my desire to help others learn about their finances and make better financial decisions, emphasizing that I do not seek any financial gain from the services offered through the financial literacy. I prefer to do this as a volunteer, believing that the impact on their lives is more important than any money involved.

He accused me of hypocrisy, asking why I wouldn’t work for free at my Taco Bell job if I felt that way. He then suggested that I focus on the finance campaign to support my vocation, while questioning why I didn't just attend community college if I was only concerned about having a degree in case I was forced to leave the monastery, God forbid, without a transfer.

He knows I am a vowed virgin dedicated to Jesus, and if I were forced to leave a monastery without a transfer, I would blame myself for choosing a lower-ranked school while searching for work until I find my way back to a monastery or a similar setting. He criticized me for wearing a habit, accusing me of trying to portray myself as a professed religious when I am not. He has always known that I wear thobes for the sake of promoting modesty and to prevent confusion among laypeople, with the blessing of my priest, as it helps me keep my vow of perpetual virginity and orient myself towards God.

Despite knowing that it’s a mortal sin to impersonate a religious or clergy member, he suggested that I was doing just that. When I reminded him, "You know I’m not single, and I have my priests' blessing to wear this," he responded, "But you never received formal consecration from the bishop." I retorted, "Whose fault is that?" He said “Oh, you don’t want to know about that.” He also remarked, "I think the degree is just in case you want to leave the monastery. If something happens with one of the brothers and you don’t like it, you can leave and at least you’ll have a degree."

I found this accusation particularly hurtful because my intention in entering the monastery is to embrace solitude and silence, not to ‘make’ friends, but ‘be’ a true friend and brother by dedicating myself to my real job which is giving myself to God.

He already knew all of this and yet chose to attack me, implying that I’m either lying or unreasonable for not desiring financial interest in people's lives. I’ve never been motivated toward others for money, even though I apparently spend it on things I enjoy. Jesus never lets me worry about money. Regardless of whether he understands this, he has shown me a side of himself that concerns me.

His remarks felt like a personal attack, exploiting things he already knew about me. I am not interested in profiting from others; my focus has always been on being there for others. This encounter revealed a troubling side of my friend, as he seemed to be enraged at my genuine intentions and commitments.

[ShySoul]

2 hours ago, HesAlone said:

I found this accusation particularly hurtful because my intention in entering the monastery is to embrace solitude and silence, not to ‘make’ friends, but ‘be’ a true friend and brother by dedicating myself to my real job which is giving myself to God.

If you're purpose is give yourself to God and do his bidding, then stay focused on that task. Do not let the opinions of others sway you from your chosen path. What would God want you to do? If you believe it is to help others, you help others. If pursuing the education you want will better help you to that, then pursue that education. If you want to volunteer and not profit off of it, then volunteer. The opinions and judgements of one person are not as important as following the calling of your own heart.

The God I was raised to believe in is one of service to others, of helping those less fortunate then ourselves. You seem to believe in something similar. While I personally am not as dedicated to the religious aspects you are, I think it is a great thing that you wish to devote yourself to being there for others.

As for your friend: "As the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive." Do not let his words get to you. Forgive him and move on. Focus on what really matters to you and makes you feel better, what helps you to achieve the goals you've set for yourself.

[catfeeder]

If you’re planning to help people, you’ll need to adopt resilience, because this won’t be the last time you’ll encounter rude doubts about your motives or abilities. People act out for their own reasons, like jealousy or depression or mistrust. It may be helpful for you to study up on how to best respond to such situations rather than react to them emotionally.

I’d pull back and give the guy an opportunity to reflect. Decide how important it ‘must’ be to you for him to understand you rather than mind his own business.

[Cherylyn]

The part that really resonates with me is the fact that he accused you of lying.  I can relate even though my story is not the same as yours.  There's nothing more infuriating than being falsely accused of lying when you know deep within your bones that you've told the honest truth.  It's a  permanent deal breaker.

I'd say the only way to make amends is if he (or anyone) were to sincerely admit they made a terrible mistake,  felt remorseful and humbly said they were truly sorry ~  in person.  Any other way to apologize is absolutely intolerable and unacceptable. 

Some people 'apologize' in a gaslighting way.  For example,  "I'm sorry you feel this way."  Or, the most infuriating so-called apology is this:  "I'm sorry you took it the wrong way!"  That right there holds no accountability nor responsibility for wrongdoing.  Those are examples of a 1/2 _______ apology or even less than that.  It's deflecting blame back on you as if there's something wrong with you.  Where is the perpetrator actually taking ownership for what they've done?  Where is that said and stated?  Nowhere.  Go take a long walk on a short pier.  🤨

Or, if he is dismissive and pretends he never called you a liar,  he is tricky.  A friend (or anyone) like that is not worth seeing again for the rest of your life. 

Your friend doesn't have your best interests at heart.  He's very cynical,  condescending, obnoxiously rude and demeaning.  It's time to ditch the friend and go your separate ways.  A real friend doesn't act like a jerk.  Your friend does.  😠

I've had people in my life who've downgraded my sincere intentions.  Needless to say,  I've since eliminated certain undeserving people from my life and it's been a tremendous RELIEF.  Get rid of people who don't matter.  They're not worth it and they're worth less than the dirt underneath your feet.  💩 👣

[ShySoul]

@CherylynI have said ''I'm sorry you feel that way'' and didn't mean it as gaslighting or as a way to ignore my responsibility in something.  I said it because I wanted to acknowledge the other persons feelings and validate that they had a right to feel that way. I've also told someone I was sorry they took it the wrong way. I was trying to explain the misunderstanding, but I still tried to recognize how the other person felt and admitted if I did anything that could have been taken in a bad way.

Think the problem is when that is all a person says, when they don't take the time to admit exactly what they did or how it made someone feel. That is half hearted and insincere. And your right, those people should be cut out of your life. I certainly don't miss the couple people I had to do it with.

Keep true friends close to your heart. The fake friends aren't worth it.

[Cherylyn]

3 hours ago, ShySoul said:

@CherylynI have said ''I'm sorry you feel that way'' and didn't mean it as gaslighting or as a way to ignore my responsibility in something.  I said it because I wanted to acknowledge the other persons feelings and validate that they had a right to feel that way. I've also told someone I was sorry they took it the wrong way. I was trying to explain the misunderstanding, but I still tried to recognize how the other person felt and admitted if I did anything that could have been taken in a bad way.

Think the problem is when that is all a person says, when they don't take the time to admit exactly what they did or how it made someone feel. That is half hearted and insincere. And your right, those people should be cut out of your life. I certainly don't miss the couple people I had to do it with.

Keep true friends close to your heart. The fake friends aren't worth it.

If "I'm sorry you feel that way" or "I'm sorry you took it the wrong way" is accompanied with, "I'm sorry I made a terrible mistake.  I shouldn't have said or written what I did because I now know it was wrong.  I feel awful and I'll try to be a better person for you in the future."  <======== If this is said in person,  then it sounds thoroughly sincere.  However,  if all that was offered was "I'm sorry you feel that way" or "I'm sorry you took it the wrong way" and nothing more,  then it's extremely inadequate and isn't very convincing there is an ounce of remorse in there. 

The crux of the matter is this:  The person owed the apology wants to know why it was wrong and wants to hear a humble,  "I'm sorry for what I did to you and I now know it was wrong,  I feel bad" to put it succinctly. 

So yes,  I agree with you in that if the perpetrator doesn't take the time nor make the effort to explain why they're sorry for what they had done,  then it's a 1/2 _______ wasted air statement which is actually worse than the original disrespectful,  disdainful offense itself so why bother?  Those types of people can go to ________ for all I care.  🙄

Those types of empty words are meaningless and it's better to remain silent than hear it at all. 

Those meaningless words are the same as denial and ignoring the dispensed obnoxiously rude actions or words in the first place.  Either an apology is said and done right or the relationship flounders to an abyss. ☹️

And,  if a person didn't mean it was gaslighting or doesn't know it was gaslighting,  this is a problem because gaslighting is changing a person's perception of the facts by what was said which is complicated,  confusing and infuriating.  It's not a real,  simple,  heartfelt,  humble apology.  Many times a person is waiting for more and if it's not forthcoming,  then there are feelings of disgust and there is no more desire to continue the relationship or friendship anymore.  It was killed in an instant.  Poof and just like that it is gone.

I've taught my sons how to apologize by giving them examples and then I told them to apologize to me if I were someone in their future.  If it was unacceptable,  I'd tell them, "Nope,  try again."  Then they would repeat with different angles until they got it right.  Then I would say, "Yes, this is the way to apologize correctly." 

I've taught them to place themselves in other people's shoes and asked them what they would want to hear.  With practice,  they've since learned how to apologize so it's convincingly sincere without sounding distorted,  twisted and tricky.  There is no roundabout way to apologize.  It has to convey remorse for the offense otherwise the listener is done with the perpetrator and it's time to say, "Adios." 🖐️

[Batya33]

19 hours ago, ShySoul said:

@CherylynI have said ''I'm sorry you feel that way'' and didn't mean it as gaslighting or as a way to ignore my responsibility in something.  I said it because I wanted to acknowledge the other persons feelings and validate that they had a right to feel that way. I've also told someone I was sorry they took it the wrong way. I was trying to explain the misunderstanding, but I still tried to recognize how the other person felt and admitted if I did anything that could have been taken in a bad way.

Think the problem is when that is all a person says, when they don't take the time to admit exactly what they did or how it made someone feel. That is half hearted and insincere. And your right, those people should be cut out of your life. I certainly don't miss the couple people I had to do it with.

Keep true friends close to your heart. The fake friends aren't worth it.

Me too and I meant to write this too. For both to the hilt.  I was accused of something recently (not by my spouse - by an acquaintance) - that she absolutely with no question took the wrong way/analyzed it as some sort of pattern on my part- bizarre.  I did apologize because in this case it was better to keep the peace for various reasons than be "right."  I did tell her I'm very sorry you feel that way, I don't see it that way at all and I apologize if it came across that way to you.  No I will absolutely not take responsibility for someone else's self-created agenda to twist what I said out of recognition.  But I was sorry she felt offended or upset.  

 

[ShySoul]

@Cherylyn I hope I never get on your bad side. It doesn't sound pleasant. Lol.

I'm 100% with you. I can forgive a lot if I know you are really sorry and recognize what you did. But if you don't even see how you hurt me or don't even care, that's worse then whatever else you did. Shows you don't value me or the friendship. So have a nice life but I won't be a part of it. I'll save my time for those who actually care.

Good for you for teaching your sons manners and how to be sincere. Always surprises me when I see parents who don't.

[Cherylyn]

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Me too and I meant to write this too. For both to the hilt.  I was accused of something recently (not by my spouse - by an acquaintance) - that she absolutely with no question took the wrong way/analyzed it as some sort of pattern on my part- bizarre.  I did apologize because in this case it was better to keep the peace for various reasons than be "right."  I did tell her I'm very sorry you feel that way, I don't see it that way at all and I apologize if it came across that way to you.  No I will absolutely not take responsibility for someone else's self-created agenda to twist what I said out of recognition.  But I was sorry she felt offended or upset.  

 

I don't even bother telling anyone that 'I'm sorry you felt that way.'  Or,  'I'm sorry you took it the wrong way.'  Or,  'I'm sorry you felt offended or upset.'  Save it. 🤨 If I refuse to take responsibility for anything or sincerely apologize,  then it's better to remain silent.  Don't engage.  It saves everyone's energy and time.  If people refuse to take responsibility whether it's their fault or not,  why bother saying anything at all?  It's nothing but hot air and deflects blame away from you onto back to them and I get it.  It is indeed gaslighting.  It's better not to respond at all. 

I've had someone actually tell me,  'I'm sorry you took it the wrong way.'  That sealed the deal.  I knew exactly what I was dealing with which was a complicated,  dramatic character and narcissistic mental disorder for which there is no cure.   It's a lose - lose situation and dynamic forever.  Huge red flag.  The result?  We cross paths and while I'm respectful and well mannered,  there is zero camaraderie,  no warm fuzzy lovey dovey feelings whatsoever and I'm frosty towards said person.  She feels it and has since taken notice.  😩  Oh well.  What goes around comes around.   Btw, this is MIL so a word to the wise:  Guard your words carefully with your DIL (or anyone) otherwise it will come back to haunt you.  Guess what?  There will be significantly decreased,  reduced and infrequent access to your son and grandsons (or grandchildren) for decades to come because marriage and family is a loyal package deal.  🙄 OP @HesAlone this applies to anyone and not distinct to friends or family because this sentiment is universal.

To those who balk at harsh consequences,  well,  you should've thought of that before you opened your big mouth.  Or, you should've thought of that before you wrote because you can't take it back once it was spewed unless there is a sincere,  heartfelt apology offered and even then the relationship is damaged and trust had been irrevocably broken. 

Based upon my experience,  whenever I've been falsely accused,  I no longer defend myself otherwise I'll be gaslighted to death anyway so all I do is this:  'Checkmate.'   I simply ignore and if possible,  the perpetrator is permanently eliminated from my life.  If estrangement is impossible and we must cross paths,  I'm polite yet frostily distant and civil because it's the best I can do. 

[Cherylyn]

1 hour ago, ShySoul said:

@Cherylyn I hope I never get on your bad side. It doesn't sound pleasant. Lol.

I'm 100% with you. I can forgive a lot if I know you are really sorry and recognize what you did. But if you don't even see how you hurt me or don't even care, that's worse then whatever else you did. Shows you don't value me or the friendship. So have a nice life but I won't be a part of it. I'll save my time for those who actually care.

Good for you for teaching your sons manners and how to be sincere. Always surprises me when I see parents who don't.

Thank you for your kind words @ShySoul.  Once upon a time,  I was actually quite sweet,  innocent and forgiving to a fault.  I was 'Doormat of the Decade.'  Eventually,  I grew sick and tired of being walked on all the time and played for a fool.  Enough already until I graduated from the school of hard knocks.

And the gaslighting.  It's typical and as old as time.  😐

I agree with you.  Unless there is a humble,  very sincere,  thorough explanation of why you're sorry,  it kills all desire to be together again.  In fact,  I'll go out of my way to avoid and prevent in person interactions at all costs for self preservation's sake.  I don't even go so far as to wish them a nice life.  I want the nice life and I want to live it  without  them in it. 🤔

Thank you,  I've taught my sons how to treat people right without tricky deflection,  complex,  drama filled mind games and head trips. 

I'm not shocked by parents who raise ill mannered children who grow up to be very rude,  mouthy,  sassy,  disrespectful,  complicated adults.  😔  I've heard and seen it all.  🤨 Nothing surprises me anymore. 

[Batya33]

8 hours ago, ShySoul said:

Good for you for teaching your sons manners and how to be sincere. Always surprises me when I see parents who don't.

We do. And I've met many parents who do their best to and -well -their child is an individual and doesn't choose to act in a polite way for whatever reason.  Yes that child might get consequences from the parents - but I cannot blame parents to the extent parents are targeted.  We're extremely lucky-our son is well mannered, thoughtful and polite -much more out there than to his own mama lol "OK WHATEVER!" or "blah blah blah" but fortunately much of the time he treats us appropriately and genuinely apologizes sometimes with "but mom I'm a teenager and I'm supposed to be annoying just like you're an annoying mom it's your job!" - fine I'll take it.  I went to pick up a pharmacy prescription other day at a chain drugstore.  Man behind counter asked me the name -I supplied it- and he said HUH????? I admit yes I wondered who raised him.  

[Coily]

May I ask, are you entering or wanting to enter the consecrated life?

I think your friend is struggling to understand what this kind of life is, and what it entails. He may only see it as another job, rather than a spiritual vocation. One not of this mere material world.

Now I do understand his critique on dress, if you are not on the path to a consecrated life; there are other ways to dress modestly that doesn’t give the wrong impression to the laity. Though I would say his tone here is way out of line, as this is him trying to get a dig at you.

Your friend truly doesn’t understand you, I would say you have grown apart. As you are living a life that requires that you forgive his trespass, do so. What is in his heart may be confusion or hate, any anywhere in between. You will face many challenges in the walk you have chosen; you will need to gird yourself with prayer on how to navigate these situations.

I would also caution against following advice of those who would harden your heart, that is fine for laity or the secular; but a consecrated life is one that demands you handle things differently. Pray upon it, and ask for intercessions for your friend.

[ShySoul]

13 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

Once upon a time,  I was actually quite sweet,  innocent and forgiving to a fault.  I was 'Doormat of the Decade.'  Eventually,  I grew sick and tired of being walked on all the time and played for a fool. 

It can be a tough thing, learning when to stand up for yourself and say enough is enough. Way to find and use that inner voice we all have.

6 hours ago, Batya33 said:

but I cannot blame parents to the extent parents are targeted

Think most parents are good, or at least trying their best. And yes, it does come down to the child to listen and do what's right. 

I was specifically thinking of my cousin who did have a parent who spoiled her and let her have her way on things. She was never to blame for anything, didn't face any consequences. Surprise, she became a brat who treated people terribly and wasn't well liked. Unfortunately there are parents like that. A child will act out, it's part of learning how to behave. But the learning starts at home and if the parent doesn't demonstrate the right way to act, there's a good chance the child the child will just mimic what they've seen.

[ShySoul]

36 minutes ago, Coily said:

I think your friend is struggling to understand what this kind of life is, and what it entails. He may only see it as another job, rather than a spiritual vocation. One not of this mere material world.

Your friend truly doesn’t understand you, I would say you have grown apart. As you are living a life that requires that you forgive his trespass, do so. What is in his heart may be confusion or hate, any anywhere in between. 

Excellent point.

The kind of life you've chosen to lead isn't an easy one and is easily misunderstood. Your friend may be struggling to understand it. Still, he should respect your choice and allow you the freedom to pursue your calling, whatever it may be. If he can't, then he isn't a true friend and he isn't worth the stress and fustration. Allow him to live his own life as he sees fit and go on livng yours.

You'll encounter plenty of people in the world who will question your values, believes, and choices. Some will be harsh about it. But you are the one who knows you best. You have to do what is right for you, rather anyone else understands it. As long as you are happy with yourself and trying to lead the best life you can, that is what matters most.

[Cherylyn]

28 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

It can be a tough thing, learning when to stand up for yourself and say enough is enough. Way to find and use that inner voice we all have.

Think most parents are good, or at least trying their best. And yes, it does come down to the child to listen and do what's right. 

I was specifically thinking of my cousin who did have a parent who spoiled her and let her have her way on things. She was never to blame for anything, didn't face any consequences. Surprise, she became a brat who treated people terribly and wasn't well liked. Unfortunately there are parents like that. A child will act out, it's part of learning how to behave. But the learning starts at home and if the parent doesn't demonstrate the right way to act, there's a good chance the child the child will just mimic what they've seen.

Yes,  I agree @ShySoul.  Not all parents are bad.  However,  there are some exceptions such as my cousin,  an only child who to this day,  the narcissist that she is,  exploits people to the hilt only to easily discard them when they're no longer useful and needed.  She says and writes whatever she wants without a care in the world and it shows.  I guess it works up to a point and then sooner or later,  this type of selfish behavior alienates many.  Sometimes,  the youngest sibling acts the same way with the same disastrous results. 

It's not only a matter of teaching children how to behave.  Children observe their parents for many years and they're watching.  👀  They mimic what they've known all their life.

[Batya33]

16 hours ago, ShySoul said:

I was specifically thinking of my cousin who did have a parent who spoiled her and let her have her way on things. She was never to blame for anything, didn't face any consequences. Surprise, she became a brat who treated people terribly and wasn't well liked. Unfortunately there are parents like that. A child will act out, it's part of learning how to behave. But the learning starts at home and if the parent doesn't demonstrate the right way to act, there's a good chance the child the child will just mimic what they've

Typically outsiders see it as all or nothing and it might be so or might not be.  I think adults make choices except in cases of abuse or trauma and then for sure therapy can help the child or teen transition to independent healthy adulthood.  I once handed my son a leftover snack bag with cheerios, maybe some nuts and dried fruit.  At a restaurant table. 

Why? Because he asked us to leave the sandwich shop ( we were then traveling) to go to the Asian restaurant but when the Asian dishes arrived he said he wouldn't eat any of it.  Wanted i guess the sandwich shop lol.  I handed him his half eaten snack bag from earlier and said "here is your lunch" and then my husband and I ate the food.  He was welcome to change his mind and didn't.  He was I think 7 or 8.  He was  really surprised because I was all about eating new foods/healthful foods.  I knew he wouldn't starve and he had to see that sure we'd switch once before ordering but - no sir.

And -surprise after that we wanted ice cream.  Yes I let him have ice cream too. Why? Again we were traveling, I chose my battles -he got the clear message we weren't going to return to the restauarnt he wanted, he had to sit while we ate and eat his cheerios.  So an outsider might have been like -no no eat the ice cream right in front of him -make him see! But I left my Parenting Manual written but ThoseWho Judge, IIII, home so I made the choice- with my husband -that the consequences were suffiicent.

My mother was relieved I was an easy enough child. Why? My sister was a handful and my dad had a mental illness.  So I got ignored a lot.  Not spoiled -because I don't think I was too demanding and even if I had been I mean we weren't rich.  So maybe to an outsider I seemed ignored too much.  But they couldn't know my mother's struggles.  Why? Because mental health in the 1970's-80s was so stigmatized so she couldn't confide in her friends and had to keep up a brave front.  So if I'd linked this up to my adult "flaws" what then - blame my mom? Or find a way to make different choices etc.

It's so easy to paint parenting in broad brush strokes.  Again I am not speaking of true abuse.  That is very different!