Best Practices for Paying Your Own Way

[rainbowsandroses]

3 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

Only took decades, many unfinished projects, and a lot of trying to be perfect to figure that out. Just trying to save everyone else the time. 😉

Haha good luck!  I have been preaching the "live in the moment" mantra like forever!  I think it's terribly misunderstood by some which is OK, live and let live, right? 🙂 

Whatever works. 

[yogacat]

1 hour ago, ShySoul said:

Problem with the perfectionist mindset is that it never ends up being good enough so you end up tearing it down and starting over to the point that you may not even finish. 

It's the journey, not the destination. Be in the moment and enjoy the ride, all the ups and downs. Nothing is ever 100% perfect and you'll only lose out on a lot of great experiences if you're too focused on what isn't there instead of what is. As long as it is mostly good, then good enough can be just fine.

Yes, but living for the moment isn’t always universally beneficial. It can lead to impulsive decisions, neglecting long-term consequences.

The desire to live in the moment is a driving force behind the dissolution of marriages, neglect of one's well-being, and the staggering national debt of America. 😂

[ShySoul]

2 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Yes, but living for the moment isn’t always universally beneficial. It can lead to impulsive decisions, neglecting long-term consequences.

There's always a catch. Hard to come up with any kind of hard and fast rule when there are so many valuables. As with everything, up to people to use their best judgment and learn what works for them in any given circumstance.

Came up with this guideline for myself: Learn from the past, live in the present, live for the future. Tries to take the best of all worlds. 

Of course, easier said then done.

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I have been preaching the "live in the moment" mantra like forever!  I think it's terribly misunderstood by some which is OK, live and let live, right?

There will always be some that don't get you. Que sera, sera.

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, ShySoul said:

Came up with this guideline for myself: Learn from the past, live in the present, live for the future. Tries to take the best of all worlds. 

There is also "the past is history, the future is a mystery, the present is a gift, that's why it's called the "present."

Many people believe in this and have written about it; I think Eleanor Roosevelt was the first to write about it.  It's also quoted in Eastern Philosophy.  Deepak Chopra often refers to it in many of his books and journals. 

I have two different plaques at home with this quote and read it every morning!!  I actually would not want to live any other way and disagree it leads to divorce etc.

In fact, I believe it's couples who DON'T live in the present moment and thus impose expectations and restrictions on their partners and stress about "tomorrow" who are more inclined to get divorced. 

They anticipate problems occurring when there are none, thus creating them.

JMO on that.

Like I said, I think it's terribly misunderstood and basically means live in the present moment, make the best of the present moment.  Remain open and flexible to changing nuances and allow things to take their natural path without expectations (often unrealistic) and without pushing.

Detach from outcome and embrace the journey!

 

[yogacat]

The concept of "living in the moment" or mindfulness has become popular in Western society, but its original intention and relationship to Buddhism has been distorted. The author challenges the idea that "living in the moment" is a helpful strategy and suggests that it may not be applicable to all circumstances or individuals.

Attention to the present moment may not be the solution to problems and it is not a skill that can be learned.

The author in this article also questions the significance and effectiveness of this approach and suggests that there may be more important aspects to consider in life:

Have You Ever Been Told You Should Live in the Moment? | Psychology Today

I can deeply appreciate living in the moment. Albeit. How do I want to look back on my entire life? 

Instead of focusing solely on the present, I consider also the bigger picture - how I want to be remembered, what legacy I want to leave behind. I don't like to let temporary emotions or impulses dictate my actions, instead make intentional decisions based on future goals and the impact I want to have on the world.

Our lives are like books, with each moment a sentence, and we are the authors. I cannot change what has already been written, but I have the power to choose how my story continues. And with each decision I make, I am writing future chapters.

When I live with this mindset, I understand that my past, present, and future are all connected. My past shapes my present, and my present will ultimately determine my future. So rather than living solely in the moment, I wish to make conscious choices that align with the future I envision for yourself.

So, I can let go of the idea of impulsively seizing every moment and instead, actively create the life I want to live. I  have the power to write a semi-charming, not preachy, story for myself that I can reflect on with pride and contentment as I reach the final pages. The pen is always in your hands.

I really appreciate all the comments in this thread. Sorry to go off topic. 😬

The comments really reminded me of the importance of treasuring each moment and finding balance in my approach to living in the present versus considering the future. Thank you for the valuable insights.

[rainbowsandroses]

I think the article from Psychology Today places somewhat of a negative spin (which is fine it's the writer's opinion and experience and presents us with another alternative to consider) however I DO believe, in part, what you wrote quoted below:

33 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I understand that my past, present, and future are all connected. My past shapes my present, and my present will ultimately determine my future.

I believe the past shapes my present however that does not mean I need to focus on my past.  My past is history. I learned from it, grew from it.  And still learning, for me the learning never stops!

I do not believe my present determines my future because my future is a mystery, it's uncertain.  And we are always changing and growing so it could take many different paths.  

It's unknown, uncertain at the present moment.

I know I am somewhat of an anomaly about this, but I embrace that uncertainty.  I just allow it to lead wherever the Universe intends for it to lead (I know hokey lol).  

Either way, I KNOW I will be okay!!  Because I am flexible and resilient.

There is no wrong or right about this.  Everyone has their journey to lead.

@yogacatI love that your original topic has sort of evolved into what we are discussing now, and that this forum allows for that.

No doubt it will go back to original topic but it was a pleasant diversion imo. 💛

 

[yogacat]

6 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I wanted to add one more thing -I dated a guy many years ago who made a great salary and he told me often he chose fancy restaurants he wanted to try and was fine paying because he didn't want to go alone or with friends -he wanted to take a date. I believe it came up because he'd suggested a restaurant and I commented it was pricey.

I can see that. It's kind of like splitting Uber and Lyft. You take the risk on paying but you just want to go for a nice time with someone. I have not been asked to fancy restaurants on the first date, just a 4 star casual type place.

One guy, he was a Calvin Klein part-time model and studying to be a doctor, took me to a very fancy restaurant on our date. I can't explain why I wouldn't like him. I guess he was too perfect and 9 years younger than me. I could tell it was less about wanting to connect but more so show me what a great catch he was but maybe he was a shy guy and couldn't express himself any other way. 😅

I think if people are foodies (as some refer to as), where food is really important to them, it could be a really cool inexpensive food venue like a dumpy bar with world class hamburgers. I like that kind of thing. I think if someone took me on a first date to something like that I would think that it would be cool!!

[Tinydance]

2 hours ago, yogacat said:

I can see that. It's kind of like splitting Uber and Lyft. You take the risk on paying but you just want to go for a nice time with someone. I have not been asked to fancy restaurants on the first date, just a 4 star casual type place.

One guy, he was a Calvin Klein part-time model and studying to be a doctor, took me to a very fancy restaurant on our date. I can't explain why I wouldn't like him. I guess he was too perfect and 9 years younger than me. I could tell it was less about wanting to connect but more so show me what a great catch he was but maybe he was a shy guy and couldn't express himself any other way. 😅

I think if people are foodies (as some refer to as), where food is really important to them, it could be a really cool inexpensive food venue like a dumpy bar with world class hamburgers. I like that kind of thing. I think if someone took me on a first date to something like that I would think that it would be cool!!

You went out with someone who was a Calvin Klein model AND doctor??!! *jealous* lol

[Tinydance]

Well for one thing I think it largely depends on what country/culture you're from. I know there are some cultures where men are expected to pay and even the men themselves think so. I live in Australia which is very multi cultural.

I'm nearly 40 and when I first started dating in my late teens/early 20's, I remember most guys would pay for me on dates. Twenty years later things do seem to be changing. I always take out my purse to pay at the end of the date.  Many guys will accept for me to pay half or pay for myself if the place allows split bills. But what I noticed was when I went on dates with Indian, African or Asian guys, they insisted they pay. One African guy even said: "I'm the man so I'll be paying."

I actually do prefer to split the bill or take turns paying myself. I don't have any problem paying for myself as I can afford it so why not? Also I agree that things can get a bit awkward with who's paying and so on. I think even if you go on a few dates, if the man payed for them all but it didn't work out, it can be disappointing for them. Doesn't mean the woman was leading them on but sometimes it just doesn't go anywhere.

I usually prefer just to go for a coffee and normally the guy will offer to pay for it. Or go out for drinks but at a bar you can actually just go up and pay. So normally if a guy paid for my drink, I'll say that the next one is on me. So it's not awkward having to split the bill or something but you just take turns.

I know my best friend went on a few picnic dates where both her and the guy just brought food and drinks and shared it. Also during COVID restrictions I went on a number of dates that was just a walk in the park and maybe got a take away coffee.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with just doing something very low key like that. Especially if it's a date with a stranger from online dating who you never met before. You might never see them again so in that sense why go for an expensive dinner? 

 

[mylolita]

I mentioned this topic to my husband. I said, “Who do you think should pay when a man and a woman go out on a date?”

 

He looked at me like I was stupid and said without thought; “The man of course.” He was like, obviously - durrrrr 🤣

 

If I were the man, I actually wouldn’t expect the woman pay either and would settle the bill in secret/organise a tab so the discussion didn’t even come up. 
 

Another spin - I’m actually bi-sexual. If I ever had invited another woman on a date, I would have definitely paid, because I’d invited. Maybe that’s taking on a “masculine traditional mindset” but thats what feels the most instinctive and natural to me. I have a friend who is a lesbian and I never actually asked her who pays in that dynamic for first dates! I supposed it will be very nuanced and decided between the gals!
 

I will also pay and settle tabs for friends if I haven’t seen them for awhile and I did the asking (I normally see a friend one on one, rarely in groups). 

 

I also would never be invited to someone’s house and turn up empty handed. I’ll bring a bottle or flowers. This may again, seen very old fashioned, but it’s just normal etiquette to me.

 

Everytime I read this thread I realise the dating game is a’changing! @rainbowsandroses - my Dad who is my hero, and a lovely man who isn’t some chauvinist, would have said exactly the same thing as your own father! He is now 65. Wonder if they are of a similar generation. He is British. My Mum never paid for a thing even when he had very very little money and worked in a factory as a tool maker. 
 

x

[mylolita]

51 minutes ago, JSA40 said:

Paying I think is probably less of a deal than people make it out to be, when I invite someone out I make sure I pay for them as I have invited them. If they would like to split the bill then that is fine but my default is to pay for the person.

I second this! 
 

I even do this with plutonic female friends as a woman.

 

It gets down to intention. If a woman is out to use a man, then that’s what she’s doing. But plenty of women can graciously accept and be happy to have dinner with a man and not feel like they took advantage because, their intention was never to take advantage in the first place.
 

It’s nice you have a relaxed attitude about it! It’s dinner at the end of the day, we’re not having kittens here 🤣

 

x

[yogacat]

20 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

^^My father's advice was "when a man invites you out, it should be his pleasure to pay."  He was quite traditional and it was/is about a man being a good provider.

Very old school I suppose but it stuck with me.  However I am very flexible and it's not black and white.

For example there are times when, even early in, we might discuss having a date and planning it together.  Versus him specifically asking me out on a "proper date."

I am totally cool with that, in fact I enjoy that type of dynamic.  In which case, I might suggest paying for the both of us.  He usually declined but appreciated my offering! 

My previous post, I was speaking more about first dates. 

 

That's why I mentioned my father INITIALLY. He is very much a traditionalist with his daughters, me especially, so naturally that had some affect on me.

[yogacat]

10 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Well for one thing I think it largely depends on what country/culture you're from. I know there are some cultures where men are expected to pay and even the men themselves think so. I live in Australia which is very multi cultural.

I'm nearly 40 and when I first started dating in my late teens/early 20's, I remember most guys would pay for me on dates. Twenty years later things do seem to be changing. I always take out my purse to pay at the end of the date.  Many guys will accept for me to pay half or pay for myself if the place allows split bills. But what I noticed was when I went on dates with Indian, African or Asian guys, they insisted they pay. One African guy even said: "I'm the man so I'll be paying."

I actually do prefer to split the bill or take turns paying myself. I don't have any problem paying for myself as I can afford it so why not? Also I agree that things can get a bit awkward with who's paying and so on. I think even if you go on a few dates, if the man payed for them all but it didn't work out, it can be disappointing for them. Doesn't mean the woman was leading them on but sometimes it just doesn't go anywhere.

I usually prefer just to go for a coffee and normally the guy will offer to pay for it. Or go out for drinks but at a bar you can actually just go up and pay. So normally if a guy paid for my drink, I'll say that the next one is on me. So it's not awkward having to split the bill or something but you just take turns.

I know my best friend went on a few picnic dates where both her and the guy just brought food and drinks and shared it. Also during COVID restrictions I went on a number of dates that was just a walk in the park and maybe got a take away coffee.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with just doing something very low key like that. Especially if it's a date with a stranger from online dating who you never met before. You might never see them again so in that sense why go for an expensive dinner? 

 

My father is Persian but born in Bahrain (Arabic) and very strict, traditional and old fashioned. He came to the US when he was 17 I think. He grew up VERY poor in Bahrain, sometimes they would only have a loaf of bread to carry them through the entire week and he lived in these man-made tent like structures. So, fairly poor means.

So when I asked him what he would do if I ever brought a male friend home, he said the guy must take off his shoes and offer me his seat if there's no other spare seats. Haha. My father has become more relaxed in his views in recent years.

Personally, I have no issue with paying my own way.

But, interestingly, almost all the guys I've met have suggested going to a restaurant for our first date. It wasn't fancy, just a place with food, cold drinks, and a pleasant ambiance where we can sit and get to know each other. In most cases, the men have offered to pay, and I have accepted. I try to offer to pay, but they decline.

Some men have even mentioned that they feel pressure if they pay, or that the girl may feel obliged to go on another date with them.

Alas, it seems that there is no set rule when it comes to paying on a date - it depends on the individuals and their personal beliefs and cultural norms. At the end of the day, it's about enjoying each other's company and having a good time.

[mylolita]

10 minutes ago, yogacat said:

My father is Persian but born in Bahrain (Arabic) and very strict, traditional and old fashioned. He came to the US when he was 17 I think. He grew up VERY poor in Bahrain, sometimes they would only have a loaf of bread to carry them through the entire week and he lived in these man-made tent like structures. So, fairly poor means.

So when I asked him what he would do if I ever brought a male friend home, he said the guy must take off his shoes and offer me his seat if there's no other spare seats. Haha. My father has become more relaxed in his views in recent years.

Personally, I have no issue with paying my own way.

But, interestingly, almost all the guys I've met have suggested going to a restaurant for our first date. It wasn't fancy, just a place with food, cold drinks, and a pleasant ambiance where we can sit and get to know each other. In most cases, the men have offered to pay, and I have accepted. I try to offer to pay, but they decline.

Some men have even mentioned that they feel pressure if they pay, or that the girl may feel obliged to go on another date with them.

Alas, it seems that there is no set rule when it comes to paying on a date - it depends on the individuals and their personal beliefs and cultural norms. At the end of the day, it's about enjoying each other's company and having a good time.

This was along way round to get to “everyone do your thang” 🤣🤣🤣

 

ENA is so funny apologies Yoga I have to laugh. 
 

After being on here so many years I think the mantra for most threads conclude: “Each to their own.”

 

This is realistic and fair. 
 

How are you gonna proceed with your gent? Will you be offering to split next time or wait and see what he says at the end of the meal? 🚬😎

 

x

[rainbowsandroses]

6 hours ago, mylolita said:

 @rainbowsandroses - my Dad who is my hero, and a lovely man who isn’t some chauvinist, would have said exactly the same thing as your own father! He is now 65. Wonder if they are of a similar generation. He is British. My Mum never paid for a thing even when he had very very little money and worked in a factory as a tool maker. 

@mylolitamy dad (late dad as he passed 10 years ago) was Lithuanian, born and raised until early teens and he was my hero too!

Very old school, both my mom and step mom never worked (for pay) outside the home either. 

Anyhoo, I've been thinking a lot about this topic and truly believe women who enjoy when a man pays on a date that HE invited her out on sometimes get a bad rap being called 'entitled' and such and sometimes they are but not always.

There is much more to it that's biological imo and instinctive -  the man providing and protecting and how that makes a woman feel (safe and protected no matter how much she earns) which translates to her feeling warm, sexy and loving towards the man and how that makes HIM feel as man and how he benefits from her response in a positive way! 

This is assuming she has a strong attraction to him in the first place.  Paying and providing will not create attraction but it can enhance it, imo.

It's yin/yang, masculine/feminine, a natural polarity which is a win-win for both or can be.  Different from being transactional as it goes to our respective  feelings (sexual and otherwise) as explained above. It's biological.

What's sad is that there are women who will take advantage and use men for their money and men know this and have become wary of the entire notion of it!   To the point some men have chosen to abandon dating altogether (MGTOW).

I suppose just as there are men who will "use" (for lack of a better word) women for sex so women have become wary and overly cautious about that!

It's become a sad sorry state imo where (generally speaking) men and women have stopped trusting each other, that's what changed imo. 

Although I'm quite independent, self-sufficient and financially stable, because of my dad, his values and the values he instilled in me, I'm very old school in some ways especially romance and I doubt that will ever change nor do I want it to!

It works for the men I attract and who are attracted to me, which is all that matters for each of us at the end of the day! 

All that said, I'm pretty flexible and believe in reciprocity in different ways or sometimes in the same way and will offer to pay and treat him from time to time too and happy to do so! 

 

 

[mylolita]

I will add as a mother of a boy, I encourage him in “chivalrous” behaviour.

 

Without me ever suggesting this, at 6 years old, he takes total pride in asking for my heaviest shopping bag, and insists on walking the trolley back for me to the store! 
 

A friend of mine who had two grown sons in their early 30s used to say, “I always tell Jaime - don’t be stingy with your money.” She was referring to him starting to see a new girlfriend 🤣

 

No son of mine is going Dutch 😆😆😆 And for my two girls, I hope that they can weed out the wrong’uns fast and trust their judgement! And always be thankful - that goes both ways of course.

 

Wonder what the next few generations of dating etiquette is gonna look like 🤣 Cyborg virtual cafe and bitcoin?! 
 

🤖 x

[mylolita]

12 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@mylolitamy dad (late dad as he passed 10 years ago) was Lithuanian, born and raised until early teens and he was my hero too!

Very old school, both my mom and step mom never worked (for pay) outside the home either. 

Anyhoo, I've been thinking a lot about this topic and truly believe women who enjoy when a man pays on a date that HE invited her out on sometimes a bad rap being called 'entitled' and such and sometimes they are but not always.

There is much more to it that's biological imo and instinctive -  the man providing and protecting and how that makes a woman feel (safe and protected no matter how much she earns) which translates to  her feeling sexy and loving towards the man and how that makes HIM feel as man and how he benefits from her response in a positive way! 

This is assuming she has a strong attraction to him in the first place.  Paying and providing will not create attraction but it can enhance it, imo.

It's yin/yang, masculine/feminine, a natural polarity which is a win-win for both or can be.  Different from being transactional as it goes to our respective  feelings (sexual and otherwise) as explained above. It's biological.

What's sad is that there are women who will take advantage and use men for their money and men know this and have become wary of the entire notion of it. 

I suppose just as there are men who will "use" (for lack of a better word) women for sex so women have become wary and overly cautious about that!

It's become a sad sorry state imo where (generally speaking) men and women have stopped trusting each other, that's what changed imo. 

Although I'm quite independent, self-sufficient and financially stable, because of my dad, his values and the values he instilled in me, I'm very old school in some ways especially romance and I doubt that will ever change nor do I want it to!

It works for the men I attract and who are attracted to me, which is all that matters for each of us at the end of the day! 

 

 

Yes rainbows this isn’t just all women - some men are plenty good at being out to get what they want too. We hear a lot of men stringing women along, making hollow promises and genuinely wasting her precious time with sweet nothings followed up by zero action. 
 

I don’t think anyone needs worry about taking advantage of anyone because if you’re not; you’re just not. So if they think that for whatever reason, it’s on them, not you! 
 

I absolutely LOVE getting dolled up for dates with my husband and yes… he pays… 🤣🤣🤣💃🕺

 

I think sometimes as women, we have to remember that there is still a section of men (may be small, not sure) who take the up most pride in being able to provide for a woman, and this includes picking up the dinner and drinks tab, and to insist he doesn’t do that, is to really twist a knife in his proud beating heart! We have discussed this theoretically before and my husband even said, even if I won a billion pounds, he would still pay, and wouldn’t be able to accept a dime from me.

 

Some people are old school through and through and you, like many have said, have to find someone who matches those values if they are important to you.
 

I obviously wouldn’t have gelled with a new age kind of man. I doubt we would have even made it to a first date actually, so I don’t think this issue would ever have come up for me with my, traditionalist repellent spray ☝️🤣

 

x

[mylolita]

Apologies to add again, on the taking advantage and using train of thought, that for a man with the wrong intentions, what is 3 dates costing a total of £300 for a night or two of sex by the end of a few weeks? 
 

An escort would charge more. So if a man is wining and dining for selfish reasons, it actually is quite cost effective if he can make it work on the regular… LOL! 
 

So I personally wouldn’t be worrying about what the man thought of me regarding paying my way. That’s his scene. I’ve never used a man and never will. Some women and men are out to get whatever they can. If you’re not in that camp, do what feels natural for you and don’t worry what anyone else will think - your date included! 
 

x

[yogacat]

43 minutes ago, mylolita said:

This was along way round to get to “everyone do your thang” 🤣🤣🤣

😆Touché'!!😇...

43 minutes ago, mylolita said:

ENA is so funny apologies Yoga I have to laugh. 

After being on here so many years I think the mantra for most threads conclude: “Each to their own.”

This is realistic and fair. 

How are you gonna proceed with your gent? Will you be offering to split next time or wait and see what he says at the end of the meal? 🚬😎

Oh, my gentile of a man. lol🏋️‍♂️

We met at a small outdoor concert, and afterwards he suggested going to a pub. We've done a couple low-key things since.

Next time we'll have to both do the reaching for the check thing... Maybe one of us will try to let the other person grab it first; then there will be a bunch of awkward tension that I'll lightly jab his hand with a fork and say, "come on surrogate scazmo, I'm the man in this relationship." But, we're not really at that step yet. 🤫😆🤪

[itsallgrand]

17 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Yes rainbows this isn’t just all women - some men are plenty good at being out to get what they want too. We hear a lot of men stringing women along, making hollow promises and genuinely wasting her precious time with sweet nothings followed up by zero action. 
 

I don’t think anyone needs worry about taking advantage of anyone because if you’re not; you’re just not. So if they think that for whatever reason, it’s on them, not you! 
 

I absolutely LOVE getting dolled up for dates with my husband and yes… he pays… 🤣🤣🤣💃🕺

 

I think sometimes as women, we have to remember that there is still a section of men (may be small, not sure) who take the up most pride in being able to provide for a woman, and this includes picking up the dinner and drinks tab, and to insist he doesn’t do that, is to really twist a knife in his proud beating heart! We have discussed this theoretically before and my husband even said, even if I won a billion pounds, he would still pay, and wouldn’t be able to accept a dime from me.

 

Some people are old school through and through and you, like many have said, have to find someone who matches those values if they are important to you.
 

I obviously wouldn’t have gelled with a new age kind of man. I doubt we would have even made it to a first date actually, so I don’t think this issue would ever have come up for me with my, traditionalist repellent spray ☝️🤣

 

x

My mother's father, my grandfather, always paid for my grandmother from the time they got married. She never worked, they had 9 children, he provided EVERYTHING. She died when I was 1 years old, and I'm one of the eldest grandchildren. They still had small children at home when gramps became a widower. Years later, when I was a teenager and all my aunts and uncles were married, gramps started seeing someone. Eventually she moved in. She had a similar situation to my grandmother - never worked, many many children, and husband covered everything. He had died years ago, but her story was different in a vital way. Her husband had been an abusive alcoholic. She was stuck in a run down farm house for years scrapping together what she could to feed and clothe those kids. They lived horrifically poorly. 

When they lived together and I'd visit, all kinds of things were actually physically labeled with his and her name. Her can of coffee. His cigarette tin. You get the idea. 

My gramps was an incredibly proud man. He was that stereotype of old fashioned masculinity! He didn't label because he was stingy or wanted her to pay for her stuff. She wanted it. It made her feel seen and safe, after having nothing in her control her whole life. And they lived together until gramps died. She was very good to him. You could see there was a lot of love there both ways. 

Moral of my story is even a proud man won't run at a woman paying for herself if he really is into her. 

P.s. found out years later there was quite a few ladies in town who were after my gramps, so it's not like he didn't have his pick! Lol. 

[rainbowsandroses]

23 minutes ago, itsallgrand said:

Moral of my story is even a proud man won't run at a woman paying for herself if he really is into her. 

I agree.  The act of her paying for herself won't turn him off but the way she conveys that to him when he reaches for the tab might!

For example if she's abrasive, heavy-handed and indignant about it, that could possibly be a turn off for him.

I've actually known women like this and they wonder why no second date!

If she's gracious about it, then agree he should have no issue with it. 

JMO

 

[Kwothe28]

16 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Apologies to add again, on the taking advantage and using train of thought, that for a man with the wrong intentions, what is 3 dates costing a total of £300 for a night or two of sex by the end of a few weeks? 
 

An escort would charge more. So if a man is wining and dining for selfish reasons, it actually is quite cost effective if he can make it work on the regular… LOL! 

But they dont get sex. Its not a transactional thing. There is a culture of women that is thought how its OK to go with somebody for dinner, have a very expensive food and drink, and then ghost that person next day. Because they are thought that only their time is worth that much. And how men should always wine and dine them without them doing anything in return. Because "that is what they are worth it". At least with escort you get sex. With women who we are talking about, you get nothing but ghosting the very next day. Its not "cost- effective" and that is why many men just abandoned traditional "wine and dine" approach. Spending 350 dollars for 3 women and getting nothing but ghosting for it, doesnt really make you eager to do it again. 

Anyway, my point is, you dont need to get sex for it. But in old times, women appreciated that kind of thing. Now they just dont. Your grandmothers knew they had a gentleman over there. Now, its just expected from you to take them somewhere expensive and pay. But to have no obligations toward that somebody to the point you can just forget he existed. If you are going to do that, than dont expect men to be too eager to do such stuff as well. 

[Batya33]

I don’t think it’s that individual if it involves a traditional dating context where the man asks a woman on a date. I do think it’s a do your own thing where it’s less clear that it’s a traditional date. 
I know of women who dated for the free drinks and meals. Never me. No interest. I’d rather enjoy a bowl of cereal at home than be with a boring guy who asked me out for a fancy dinner. 
Many years ago I had a first date around the holidays so I’d baked cookies. We’d met at a singles party. I brought him a small package of half a dozen cookies and he said jokingly “not a dozen ??” So I told him I just wasn’t that easy on the first date. (This was a stunner - after the second date a week later he told me he wasn’t into me cause I was too normal. He also had told me at the singles party he broke his engagement when he found out at the engagement party she’d been lying about her age. We were in our 20s. So maybe he preferred drama lol. 

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I agree.  The act of her paying for herself won't turn him off but the way she conveys that to him when he reaches for the tab might!

For example if she's abrasive, heavy-handed and indignant about it, that could possible be a turn off for him.

I've actually known women like this and they wonder why no second date!

If she's gracious about it, then agree he should have no issue with it. 

JMO

 

Great point. It really is contextual and tone etc 

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

But they dont get sex. Its not a transactional thing. There is a culture of women that is thought how its OK to go with somebody for dinner, have a very expensive food and drink, and then ghost that person next day. Because they are thought that only their time is worth that much. And how men should always wine and dine them without them doing anything in return. Because "that is what they are worth it". At least with escort you get sex. With women who we are talking about, you get nothing but ghosting the very next day. Its not "cost- effective" and that is why many men just abandoned traditional "wine and dine" approach. Spending 350 dollars for 3 women and getting nothing but ghosting for it, doesnt really make you eager to do it again. 

Anyway, my point is, you dont need to get sex for it. But in old times, women appreciated that kind of thing. Now they just dont. Your grandmothers knew they had a gentleman over there. Now, its just expected from you to take them somewhere expensive and pay. But to have no obligations toward that somebody to the point you can just forget he existed. If you are going to do that, than dont expect men to be too eager to do such stuff as well. 

I always showed appreciation. Dates or otherwise. Plus did my very best to chip in or split if I knew I didn’t want to see him again. Or cut the date short if we’d planned on dessert later or some other event. I never had sex early on. Some hooking up maybe at most.