mylolita Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 WAIT! CAVEAT! If the date has gone horrendously wrong, worked out very badly - split the bill! (I would anyway). If you are ordering all the most expensive items and champagne etc etc on the menu (would never personally do this, bad etiquette) split or pay for the bill. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShySoul Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 6 minutes ago, Batya33 said: No he wanted me to pay because he loved "being pampered". As a guy I think he should have declined or said "at least let me leave the tip" If he wants to be pampered, he should have paid for a trip to a spa. Clearly not a good sign for what he was expecting out of things. At least be willing to put in some effort and not expect the other person to handle everything. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 minute ago, ShySoul said: If he wants to be pampered, he should have paid for a trip to a spa. Clearly not a good sign for what he was expecting out of things. At least be willing to put in some effort and not expect the other person to handle everything. So ironically I met his parents- and he was with them at a fancy event at a private club some months later. He apparently was quite pampered. I was there with a date. Yes he wanted to see me again and/or set me up with his brother. So strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShySoul Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 hour ago, mylolita said: Well I mean, it’s probably controversial now! Has the dating game changed since 2008? Sounds like it has changed quite a lot!!! I never understood all the games/rules/strategies/guidelines/whatevers even back then. I'm equally as lost on it all today. To me it boils down to just be you. Either the other side gets and like you or they don't. It either works out or it doesn't. Everything else just makes me reach for a bottle of aspirin. Oh, my aching head. 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShySoul Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 34 minutes ago, mylolita said: WAIT! CAVEAT! Or if one side isn't in a postition to pay. A person working two jobs and putting themselves through classes... a single parent raising two children.... sometimes budgets are tight and even a little date is a luxury that you can't afford. In that case, maybe treat the other person to give them a break. Or find cheap dates that don't require questions of paying. Depending on where you are there are probably loads of free or inexpensive events going on that can be just as fun and you can still get to know the person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 Just now, ShySoul said: I never understood all the games/rules/strategies/guidelines/whatevers even back then. I'm equally as lost on it all today. To me it boils down to just be you. Either the other side gets and like you or they don't. It either works out or it doesn't. Everything else just makes me reach for a bottle aspirin. Oh, my aching head. 😁 For sure but dating is optional! I was very very happy with the dating protocols and traditions and structures because it made it soooo much easier to be on the same page about all of that so the focus could be on getting to know each other. And that obviously means being real and genuine. When I dated men assumed if they asked they paid. Some men differed in whether they accepted the offer to pay or split the bill (I much preferred taking turns once we were dating regularly than splitting a bill). Some men thought they were being "spontaneous" by asking me out last minute for a weekend date/asking me to 'hang out" etc and I didn't lecture them -they were entitled to be that person and that person wasn't going to get a date with me. I loved spontaneity. Not at the expense of treating me with respect and like a lady. As I've written here on our first lunch date which I wasn't positive was a date my husband chose a now closed fancier place near our office. I ordered a pizza because it was less expensive -forgot what he had. Bill came and he took it. I am not sure if I offered - but then he realized he left his wallet at the office and only had a subway token which he offered me LOLLL. I declined that, paid for both of us and would NOT let him pay me back which he tried to do that day! After that he treated basically all the time -he insisted. And 3 months in we planned a trip to Paris. I gave him a check for half (half airfare and hotel). 3 months after that we planned a trip to Disney. I said "I'll give you a check again for half". He said no he wanted to treat. I said -but - I paid for half for Paris. That's when he told me he knew I never checked my account balance and he had not deposited the check. To me - trigger warning -that is the epitome of being a gentleman. He treated and knew I wouldn't even know. I really forgot who paid while on the trip -I'm sure I did at times and his parents gave us $ for a fancy dinner out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 minute ago, ShySoul said: Or if one side isn't in a postition to pay. A person working two jobs and putting themselves through classes... a single parent raising two children.... sometimes budgets are tight and even a little date is a luxury that you can't afford. In that case, maybe treat the other person to give them a break. Or find cheap dates that don't require questions of paying. Depending on where you are there are probably loads of free or inexpensive events going on that can be just as fun and you can still get to know the person. Yes I did this for a number of first meets to dispense with the awkwardness. So - a picnic. A walk in the park to see a huge art installation. A free museum. Outdoor free concert. And did those for early dating too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mylolita Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 17 minutes ago, Batya33 said: For sure but dating is optional! I was very very happy with the dating protocols and traditions and structures because it made it soooo much easier to be on the same page about all of that so the focus could be on getting to know each other. And that obviously means being real and genuine. When I dated men assumed if they asked they paid. Some men differed in whether they accepted the offer to pay or split the bill (I much preferred taking turns once we were dating regularly than splitting a bill). Some men thought they were being "spontaneous" by asking me out last minute for a weekend date/asking me to 'hang out" etc and I didn't lecture them -they were entitled to be that person and that person wasn't going to get a date with me. I loved spontaneity. Not at the expense of treating me with respect and like a lady. As I've written here on our first lunch date which I wasn't positive was a date my husband chose a now closed fancier place near our office. I ordered a pizza because it was less expensive -forgot what he had. Bill came and he took it. I am not sure if I offered - but then he realized he left his wallet at the office and only had a subway token which he offered me LOLLL. I declined that, paid for both of us and would NOT let him pay me back which he tried to do that day! After that he treated basically all the time -he insisted. And 3 months in we planned a trip to Paris. I gave him a check for half (half airfare and hotel). 3 months after that we planned a trip to Disney. I said "I'll give you a check again for half". He said no he wanted to treat. I said -but - I paid for half for Paris. That's when he told me he knew I never checked my account balance and he had not deposited the check. To me - trigger warning -that is the epitome of being a gentleman. He treated and knew I wouldn't even know. I really forgot who paid while on the trip -I'm sure I did at times and his parents gave us $ for a fancy dinner out. That is also Batya a true sign of generosity! I appreciated my husband doing similar - paying before I even knew or we got to that end of the date “discussion!” Men could do this I suppose by leaving a pre-paid tab at the restaurant or bar, or sneakily do it on the way to the bathroom at the end. Very romantic Batya!! He gets 10 points from me 🤣 x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mylolita Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 19 minutes ago, Batya33 said: Yes I did this for a number of first meets to dispense with the awkwardness. So - a picnic. A walk in the park to see a huge art installation. A free museum. Outdoor free concert. And did those for early dating too. I like those ideas @Batya33 and @ShySoul not only because they are free and easy but, you get lots of opportunity to talk and you can judge a lot by what someone says, or how they react, to surroundings, and art, or music! x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mylolita Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said: I think most men would be thrilled if you paid it since most modern women would never do that because they think its a mans duty to pay for their meal. Dont think it would send the message you want to send lol I never minded paying. Saw it as a gentlemanly thing to do and never thought I was "used" for a meal when most of my first dates where regular coffee dates. I wouldnt get poorer from a couple dollars bill. However, if the bill is bigger, I can see why men think women are taking advantage of them. There is a story about some Asian woman who through college never paid for meal because she had 6 dates a week. Not to find a man. Just to not pay for groceries. There is a known phenomenon around that called "Foodie Calls". So if the bill is bigger maybe splitting or paying isnt a bad idea from the point a man shouldnt feel used after. But I dont think it would send the message you want to send. You want to convey how you dont like them through the process of paying for a meal. I dont think it works that way. I am so sorry to be outed and busted @Kwothe28! A girls gotta eat?! 🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mylolita Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 hour ago, ShySoul said: If he wants to be pampered, he should have paid for a trip to a spa. Clearly not a good sign for what he was expecting out of things. At least be willing to put in some effort and not expect the other person to handle everything. I’m sorry to be stereotypical but, this wasn’t the one who turned out to be gay is it @Batya33? 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 28 minutes ago, mylolita said: That is also Batya a true sign of generosity! I appreciated my husband doing similar - paying before I even knew or we got to that end of the date “discussion!” Men could do this I suppose by leaving a pre-paid tab at the restaurant or bar, or sneakily do it on the way to the bathroom at the end. Very romantic Batya!! He gets 10 points from me 🤣 x Yes this was almost 29 years ago but he did just get me my water from the kitchen so I could remain on the couch and watch the breaking news… not Paris. Not romantic but works for me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShySoul Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 24 minutes ago, mylolita said: I like those ideas @Batya33 and @ShySoul not only because they are free and easy but, you get lots of opportunity to talk and you can judge a lot by what someone says, or how they react, to surroundings, and art, or music! Can also create more memorable moments and help you stand out. Shows a creative and unique side to a person instead of the standard meal. Gives more of a chance to dig into who a person really is by exposing you to their tastes and what they like. Plus it just tends to be more fun. Which really should be the goal. Get to know the person and just have fun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mylolita Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 3 hours ago, ShySoul said: As wih eveything it depends on the people involved and what they are comfortable with. So there is no best practice or right way to handle it. It's about what is best for the two people involved. As long as you communicate and are honest with each other, any solution can work. Personally I prefer to be the gentleman and at least offer to pay. If she is okay with it, then she should graciously accept. If she isn't, then I am fine splitting the bill and paying our own way. I've also found it works to alternate who pays. I'll take the first time, she takes the next. It all works out fairly even and netiher side feels like they aren't contributing or they are being taken advantage of. Who pays shouldn't be a sticking point that causes more anxiety or awkwardness. I'd rather let who wants to pay just pay and focus on enjoying the time together. I think also to add Shy, you mentioned something important here and it is the word “graciously”. The woman should be very thankful if the man pays. I think most men, if the date has gone really well and you’ve been absolutely delighted to be in each others company, he’s probably more than happy to pay and she is beaming to accept! I think most men would have a problem paying and the lady saying absolutely nothing, coming across bored and ungrateful and uninterested, then I think the man feels used. x 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 Just now, ShySoul said: Can also create more memorable moments and help you stand out. Shows a creative and unique side to a person instead of the standard meal. Gives more of a chance to dig into who a person really is by exposing you to their tastes and what they like. Plus it just tends to be more fun. Which really should be the goal. Get to know the person and just have fun. Yes. Sometimes like in our case when we worked around the clock meeting for lunch was so much easier to plan. Also I wouldn’t get in a car with someone I’d just met so sometimes that limited options. When I meet new people now - meaning for friendship- I most often suggest a meeting in the park to walk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mylolita Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 4 minutes ago, ShySoul said: Can also create more memorable moments and help you stand out. Shows a creative and unique side to a person instead of the standard meal. Gives more of a chance to dig into who a person really is by exposing you to their tastes and what they like. Plus it just tends to be more fun. Which really should be the goal. Get to know the person and just have fun. Yes!!! Also, does anyone feel eating is kind of awkward and intimate for a first meet/first date? You’re sat there cutting and chewing in between trying to talk and look at someone in the eye and maybe flirt! Maybe you’re nervous and sometimes eating on top of nerves is also not a great mix for some people! I’d prefer coffee, a park bench meet up, an art gallery, a museum - and to save the dinner date for a third date once you are more comfortable! Sorry, I’m going off topic 🤣😮💨 x 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 8 minutes ago, mylolita said: Yes!!! Also, does anyone feel eating is kind of awkward and intimate for a first meet/first date? You’re sat there cutting and chewing in between trying to talk and look at someone in the eye and maybe flirt! Maybe you’re nervous and sometimes eating on top of nerves is also not a great mix for some people! I’d prefer coffee, a park bench meet up, an art gallery, a museum - and to save the dinner date for a third date once you are more comfortable! Sorry, I’m going off topic 🤣😮💨 x In the mid 90s I had a couple of dates with a really cute guy my age who said - the way he said it was hilarious “shouldn’t the first few dates be Chinese take out and a movie and sex at home and then the fancy dinner if it all works out??” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherylyn Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 When you offered to pay for food for both of you after the concert, it was kind of you but if I were you, I wouldn't make it a habit because if you do, it could very well grow into an expectation that you will pay and whenever you don't, it will be awkward or uncomfortable for him or both of you. 🤔 It is a good idea to "go dutch" or pay your own way for outings whether you're in a romantic relationship or not. That's what my husband and I did out of courtesy because it gets expensive for one person to habitually pay double. Don't read too much into it regarding an inclination that you're interested in him just because you're footing the bill for both of you. Many times, it's the convenience of you paying for both of you and about the money savings for him; not necessarily anything more than that. When my husband and I were dating exclusively during our brief courtship, we took turns paying restaurant bills, tickets and the like. It worked out well. I don't believe in insisting upon a man ALWAYS paying for everything and accepting graciously. I wouldn't mind a gentleman paying for everything if he can afford it and money isn't an issue but I still think it's a good idea to contribute somewhere sometimes at random as opposed to taking advantage of another person's wallet. For my own personal integrity, I don't enjoy sponging off of others even though they can afford it. I always reciprocate. If they insist upon paying, yes, I graciously say, "Thank you very much" and express my gratitude. However, I don't make it a habit of always being paid for. I return the favor so I'm not merely coming along for habitual the free ride. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 I wanted to throw this in as indirectly related to the general issue. Way back when - like when my mom got engaged in the early 1950s and perhaps beyond that - it was customary for the woman to get an engagement gift for her groom after she was proposed to and received her ring. Typically it was a watch. (I bought my husband his wedding band). I add this because it’s kind of against the assumption that the guy pays for all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mylolita Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 16 minutes ago, Batya33 said: In the mid 90s I had a couple of dates with a really cute guy my age who said - the way he said it was hilarious “shouldn’t the first few dates be Chinese take out and a movie and sex at home and then the fancy dinner if it all works out??” Hahahaha!!!! I’d personally be chuffed with a Chinese takeaway 🥡 Was this the 90s Netflix and Chill Batya? 🤣🕺 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mylolita Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 4 minutes ago, Batya33 said: I wanted to throw this in as indirectly related to the general issue. Way back when - like when my mom got engaged in the early 1950s and perhaps beyond that - it was customary for the woman to get an engagement gift for her groom after she was proposed to and received her ring. Typically it was a watch. (I bought my husband his wedding band). I add this because it’s kind of against the assumption that the guy pays for all. This is unheard of by me Batya! I see!!! That’s very sweet! When I first met my husband it was slightly tricky because his Birthday fell a month or so after we’d met! We’d discussed lots so I had a good idea what to get him - but it was, what is appropriate? I ended up getting him a potted bonsai tree. It was called ‘A Tree Of A Thousand Stars’ and has hundreds of dinky tiny white flowers! We’d been talking about our parents and I told him my Dad had kept, grown from a seed and pruned about 35 bonsai trees over a 15 year span. He was so interested that I thought it was a thoughtful and sweet gift. I wish I could say we still had it now… I killed it by over watering 😆 I think as soon as I moved in all was re-payed on the meal front as I instantly got to cooking and cleaning, even when I only stayed over for a day or two. I think good natured natural couples don’t keep score or count. I remember on our wedding day I felt really bad because, my husband had gone and had an antique kimono section framed for me (I have an obsession with Japanese Geisha!) I didn’t have anything for him aside from some nice wedding lingerie - LOL! That was more than enough he said but he personally finds it embarrassing to receive gifts and always has! He’s notoriously hard to buy for as well 🤪 What did your Mum get your Dad, can I ask Batya? So cute! x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 3 hours ago, mylolita said: This is unheard of by me Batya! I see!!! That’s very sweet! When I first met my husband it was slightly tricky because his Birthday fell a month or so after we’d met! We’d discussed lots so I had a good idea what to get him - but it was, what is appropriate? I ended up getting him a potted bonsai tree. It was called ‘A Tree Of A Thousand Stars’ and has hundreds of dinky tiny white flowers! We’d been talking about our parents and I told him my Dad had kept, grown from a seed and pruned about 35 bonsai trees over a 15 year span. He was so interested that I thought it was a thoughtful and sweet gift. I wish I could say we still had it now… I killed it by over watering 😆 I think as soon as I moved in all was re-payed on the meal front as I instantly got to cooking and cleaning, even when I only stayed over for a day or two. I think good natured natural couples don’t keep score or count. I remember on our wedding day I felt really bad because, my husband had gone and had an antique kimono section framed for me (I have an obsession with Japanese Geisha!) I didn’t have anything for him aside from some nice wedding lingerie - LOL! That was more than enough he said but he personally finds it embarrassing to receive gifts and always has! He’s notoriously hard to buy for as well 🤪 What did your Mum get your Dad, can I ask Batya? So cute! x I believe she did get him a watch -I guess- but she had no real $ of her own - new college grad and newly 22. That's so funny about the gifts! My husband got me vending machine snacks later that evening -I couldn't fly since it was my third trimester so we drove to a hotel -mostly still full from the wedding lunch etc and the next night we went out all fancy LOL. And I did have maternity lingerie for the wedding night!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogacat Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 8 hours ago, Kwothe28 said: 9 hours ago, yogacat said: I just wanted to make sure in this modern day that most guys wouldn't think that me insisting on paying was sending out a strong message and that it wouldn’t be seen as emasculating or a turn-off in any way. I think most men would be thrilled if you paid it since most modern women would never do that because they think its a mans duty to pay for their meal. Dont think it would send the message you want to send lol I never minded paying. Saw it as a gentlemanly thing to do and never thought I was "used" for a meal when most of my first dates where regular coffee dates. I wouldnt get poorer from a couple dollars bill. However, if the bill is bigger, I can see why men think women are taking advantage of them. There is a story about some Asian woman who through college never paid for meal because she had 6 dates a week. Not to find a man. Just to not pay for groceries. There is a known phenomenon around that called "Foodie Calls". So if the bill is bigger maybe splitting or paying isnt a bad idea from the point a man shouldnt feel used after. But I dont think it would send the message you want to send. You want to convey how you dont like them through the process of paying for a meal. I dont think it works that way. This particular event I wanted to pay because I wanted to 1. avoid any awkwardness or confusion about who pays and 2. just do something nice for him. I also wasn't sure 100% if there would be a second date or not, on my end, since I wasn't completely sure about our compatibility. Also, I don't very much like to have guys pay for me regardless because I don't want to feel indebted to them or like I owe them something. Foodie calls, that's ridiculous, lol! Most of the men I have been on first dates with have chosen the location (usually a restaurant) so I guess that's on them for picking the food! Their choice and I expected they wanted to pay since they picked the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShySoul Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 9 hours ago, mylolita said: I think most men would have a problem paying and the lady saying absolutely nothing, coming across bored and ungrateful and uninterested, then I think the man feels used. Yes, please seem like you actually want to be there and at least appreciate the effort that is being made. You don't have to be making future plans, see me as a potential life partner, or even want to spend a second date with me... just try to make this one at least somewhat enjoyable. Please? 😒 9 hours ago, mylolita said: Also, does anyone feel eating is kind of awkward and intimate for a first meet/first date? You’re sat there cutting and chewing in between trying to talk and look at someone in the eye and maybe flirt! Maybe you’re nervous and sometimes eating on top of nerves is also not a great mix for some people! I'm with you and it doesn't seem like we are the only ones. https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/vyz79z/anyone_else_have_a_hard_time_eating_on_dates/ 8 hours ago, mylolita said: I didn’t have anything for him aside from some nice wedding lingerie Doubt men will complain. About the only other thing they would want is the person wearing the lingerie. And cake. You can't forget the wedding cake. Maybe combine all three for a memorable, albeit messy, experience. 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShySoul Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 9 hours ago, Batya33 said: “shouldn’t the first few dates be Chinese take out and a movie and sex at home and then the fancy dinner if it all works out??” Guessing he'll be lucky to get the first two. Hey, two out of three isn't bad, right? Though if a woman decided to treat me to Cashew Nut Chicken, I might fall for her right there. The fastest way to a guys heart is through his stomach, right? 😁 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts