Need neutral opinion

[SC2005]

3 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

I am guessing you have never asked someone out on a date before.  The first time is the hardest....well they are as hard as you make them.

 Do you ever wonder why jerks seem to get girls and guys like you don't?  It is because jerks simply do not care and walk right up and ask straight out and since good guys like you are sitting on your hands afraid there aren't many options so they say yes to the jerk.

 When a girl or woman goes out of their way to talk to you, makes a personal connection, laughs at all your stupid jokes and a thousand other things you will learn as you go there is a decent chance they like like you but you will never know until you ask them out on a date.

 Yes I know it is different now were friends hang out and then somehow just pair up and start dating without an official ask but that isn't always the situation so you need to step up and ask.  Women are a wonderful gift to this world and 99% will be gracious and nice if they are not interested and let you down softly.

 I hope this works out for you but you are going down a path where you will need to make it clear that you want to date her, not just hang out.  My son found himself in the same situation with a girl he had hung out with in a small group and one on one.  He told me what was going on and asked for my advice.  I told him when you are hanging out just the two of you ask her straight out if she is interested in dating you. He did and although the answer was no they are friends and do things together pretty often but now he knows where he stands and is totally okay with it.  They also go dutch now 😀

Let us know how it all works out.

Lost

Yes, this was the first time asking someone out, if you can even call it that. 
 

Are you saying if I asked her out explicitly she might have sad yes? Why would she say no to something undefined but say yes to a date?
 

And, did she definitely say no? She’s probably just saying she doesn’t have time in order to be nice, right? And why the “we’ll talk”? 
 

In any case, I’m not messaging her anymore about this, clearly she doesn’t want to meet atm and I’m cool with that. It’s a relief to know she’s probably not into me than all the uncertainty of before. 

[Kwothe28]

3 hours ago, SC2005 said:

She said “Hiiii not sure I have the time but we’ll talk”.

 

Fair to assume she doesn’t like me?

Yeah, sorry bro.

Look at it in more positive manner. Now at least you know the answer and can move on. 

[SC2005]

13 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Yeah, sorry bro.

Look at it in more positive manner. Now at least you know the answer and can move on. 

Yeah that’s true. Good to know. Will bother me way less now. I wonder why she said “it’s definitely not goodbye”…

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, SC2005 said:

Yeah that’s true. Good to know. Will bother me way less now. I wonder why she said “it’s definitely not goodbye”…

Because she felt that at the moment. The only relevance is whether she enthusiastically says yes to the opportunity to date you. Next time with a different woman I’d be much more direct and have a specific plan as I recommended. I’m sorry it didn’t work out. I’ve been in the same situation many times over. I know it can be disappointing and hurt !

[SC2005]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Because she felt that at the moment. The only relevance is whether she enthusiastically says yes to the opportunity to date you. Next time with a different woman I’d be much more direct and have a specific plan as I recommended. I’m sorry it didn’t work out. I’ve been in the same situation many times over. I know it can be disappointing and hurt !

Eh, it doesn’t hurt that bad, I always had low expectations. When she didn’t put me on the list it hurt more, that was when I realised she’s probably not into me. 
 

You’re saying her mind changed when you say she felt that “in the moment” but no longer feels that way? Do you think she wanted to meet 1:1 when she said that it’s not goodbye?
 

I’m not regretting things I’m just trying to fully figure out what happened so I can learn … 

Finally, is there any significance to the “we’ll talk”?

[Batya33]

Just now, SC2005 said:

Eh, it doesn’t hurt that bad, I always had low expectations. When she didn’t put me on the list it hurt more, that was when I realised she’s probably not into me. 
 

You’re saying her mind changed when you say she felt that “in the moment” but no longer feels that way? Do you think she wanted to meet 1:1 when she said that it’s not goodbye?
 

I’m not regretting things I’m just trying to fully figure out what happened so I can learn … 

No not really. Words are words at that moment assume she felt that way but obviously didn’t need to act on it. Then perhaps on reflection she felt differently. Or met someone she’s interested in dating so she won’t be acting on it. When I was dating unless the man asked me out on a date he planned in advance or agreed enthusiastically to my asking him out I never tried to read into signs. Or other comments. I wasn’t interested in whether he liked me or found me attractive. I was o  interested in whether he wanted to take me on a date. If he was I knew he’d ask me out. Everything else was irrelevant to interest in dating. Dating requires a thick skin and it’s hard sometimes. Because I wanted marriage and family it was worth it to me. 

[SC2005]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

No not really. Words are words at that moment assume she felt that way but obviously didn’t need to act on it. Then perhaps on reflection she felt differently. Or met someone she’s interested in dating so she won’t be acting on it. When I was dating unless the man asked me out on a date he planned in advance or agreed enthusiastically to my asking him out I never tried to read into signs. Or other comments. I wasn’t interested in whether he liked me or found me attractive. I was o  interested in whether he wanted to take me on a date. If he was I knew he’d ask me out. Everything else was irrelevant to interest in dating. Dating requires a thick skin and it’s hard sometimes. Because I wanted marriage and family it was worth it to me. 

Got you, thanks. Why would she say “we’ll talk”?

[rainbowsandroses]

@SC2005I'm sorry things didn't go as you hoped.  You took your shot, be proud of that, next time it will be easier. 

Re being more direct, when a woman is into you, you won't need to jump through hoops figuring out the "right" way to ask.  

What's important is that you ask, in your own way, your own style which you did! 

Any deviation from that will come off contrived, awkward and disingenuous and that will show.  What's comfortable for some men (bold and direct) isn't necessarily comfortable for another.

Unfortunately she turned you down, her "we'll talk" was her being polite and wanting to lessen the rejection.

It wouldn't have mattered a hill of beans had you been more "direct."  Either she's interested or not. 

She's not interested, I'm sorry.  

 

[Batya33]

9 minutes ago, SC2005 said:

Got you, thanks. Why would she say “we’ll talk”?

It’s like “sure we should get coffee sometime “ throwaway line. IMO - again - unless the person enthusiastically says yes - even if they have to reschedule - move along. Dating is hard enough without two people wanting to meet up with enthusiasm. And if the person isnt available to date then obviously it’s a no. And assume if the person’s situation changes that person will want to let you know that. 
I’ve declined at times when the invite is lukewarm or vague or I declined to give up a weekend night and suggested something lower key. Same with last minute invites. When I dated it was a no for a weekend night if he asked after Wednesday night. And back then no email. Just landline. And the men who were serious about dating me made it happen. 

[SC2005]

6 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@SC2005I'm sorry things didn't go as you hoped.  You took your shot, be proud of that, next time it will be easier. 

Re being more direct, when a woman is into you, you won't need to jump through hoops figuring out the "right" way to ask.  

What's important is that you ask, in your own way, your own style which you did! 

Any deviation from that will come off contrived, awkward and disingenuous and that will show.  What's comfortable for some men (bold and direct) isn't necessarily comfortable for another.

Unfortunately she turned you down, her "we'll talk" was her being polite and wanting to lessen the rejection.

It wouldn't have mattered a hill of beans had you been more "direct."  Either she's interested or not. 

She's not interested, I'm sorry.  

 

Thank you very much. Really. 

[TeeDee]

18 hours ago, SC2005 said:

The meet-up with the three of us happened. Nothing really significant occurred, we were 1-1 at the end and she just said “we’ll keep talking” before we left. Idk what to do … 

I was going to say that you should keep talking.  It was good that you tried.  Sorry you didn't get an enthusiastic response. 

 

17 hours ago, SC2005 said:

What if I message her now: 

”her name” 

[reply to “it’s definitely not goodbye] I wasn’t really sure what you meant by this 

Do you wanna meet up just us sometime? 

Do not send that.  It's cringeworthy.  I understand you want clarification but that is not the way to get it. 

You are always better off showing confidence.  

What you did end up sending was much better

 

17 hours ago, SC2005 said:

We’re in the army. As soldiers in the same company. 

Hard stop!   If you are in the same company, under certain circumstances dating somebody in your company can be a criminal court martial offense.  See UCMJ article 134.   Talk to your platoon Seargent or immediate supervisor if you are a young officer before you do anything with a fellow member of the military in your same branch of service.  

At this point leaving her be is your best option.  Date civilians.  

[SC2005]

5 minutes ago, TeeDee said:

I was going to say that you should keep talking.  It was good that you tried.  Sorry you didn't get an enthusiastic response. 

 

Do not send that.  It's cringeworthy.  I understand you want clarification but that is not the way to get it. 

You are always better off showing confidence.  

What you did end up sending was much better

 

Hard stop!   If you are in the same company, under certain circumstances dating somebody in your company can be a criminal court martial offense.  See UCMJ article 134.   Talk to your platoon Seargent or immediate supervisor if you are a young officer before you do anything with a fellow member of the military in your same branch of service.  

At this point leaving her be is your best option.  Date civilians.  

I meant the list was to be in the same company. In any case, it’s not relevant. She said no and thankfully we’re not in the same company so I won’t see her again. Something that annoyed me then seems great now … all about perspective! 
 

 

[yogacat]

She's on the fence about meeting up with you. That's for sure. Saying "I can't" without providing an explanation is almost a euphemism for "I don't feel like it."

She may have said "we'll talk later" to meeting up because she didn't want to hurt your feelings or come off as rude. However, if she truly wanted to meet up with you, she would have made time for it and been more enthusiastic about it. 

Maybe she's hesitant because of the work environment. Who knows.

This is good practice though! Sometimes women give different indications through their words and actions.

Next time, try being more upfront and direct with what you want. It's daunting, but it's the best way to get clarity in these types of situations. Good luck!

[SC2005]

3 minutes ago, yogacat said:

She's on the fence about meeting up with you. That's for sure. Saying "I can't" without providing an explanation is almost a euphemism for "I don't feel like it."

She may have said "we'll talk later" to meeting up because she didn't want to hurt your feelings or come off as rude. However, if she truly wanted to meet up with you, she would have made time for it and been more enthusiastic about it. 

Maybe she's hesitant because of the work environment. Who knows.

This is good practice though! Sometimes women give different indications through their words and actions.

Next time, try being more upfront and direct with what you want. It's daunting, but it's the best way to get clarity in these types of situations. Good luck!

Thanks. The work thing isn’t relevant as we’re not gonna be together. 
 

Why do you say she’s on the fence? Isn’t it pretty clear she doesn’t want to? 

[rainbowsandroses]

5 minutes ago, SC2005 said:

Why do you say she’s on the fence? Isn’t it pretty clear she doesn’t want to? 

Yes it IS clear, she's not interested.  You're reading her correctly.

And it wouldn't have mattered had you been more direct, you would have received the same response.

You: "I'd like to take you for drinks/dinner Friday at 5:00 are you available?

Her: "Not sure if I'll have the time but we'll talk."

You did great and you're handling her response great!

Again you took your shot, it didn't work out, now you know, and can move on from it. 

It's all good!! 😀

 

[yogacat]

25 minutes ago, SC2005 said:

Thanks. The work thing isn’t relevant as we’re not gonna be together. 
 

Why do you say she’s on the fence? Isn’t it pretty clear she doesn’t want to? 

I mean, she 100% was flirting, but that doesn't always translate to interest. 

I have been asked out on dates and I am sometimes initially hesitant for whatever reason. I wouldn't read too much into it and just take it as a no for now. 

I would say that the "we'll talk later" thing is just a way to brush it off and maybe make plans for the future but 100% not in her mind.

Also something that may put your mind at ease is this: it is always a good sign when a girl asks you questions, engages with you in conversation, remembers stuff you tell her, and genuinely wants to know more about you.

I think she probably had NO idea that you were into her before the last minute and she probably didn't know how to handle it.

Move on to other people. If she comes back around with a clearer answer and some explanation, you can decide then. For now, however, I think it would be best to move on. There may be a chance, but not enough for you to hang onto. 

I agree with the other replies here in that it seems like she may not be interested in taking things further.

She is definitely sending mixed signals, but the fact that she didn't put your name down for the next stage of the course and didn't seem eager to meet up 1:1 suggest that she sees you more as a friend.

It's also possible that she may have been flirting with you in a friendly way and didn't realize that you were interested in her romantically.

In terms of when asking someone out, I think it's always worth taking a chance if you really like someone. Be clear and direct with your intentions.

Next time (not with her, but in general...) you could try saying something like, "Hey, I've really enjoyed spending time with you and I was wondering if you would like to go on a date with me sometime." This way, you are explicitly stating your intentions and it gives her a chance to say yes or no without it being ambiguous.

[catfeeder]

5 hours ago, SC2005 said:

She said “Hiiii not sure I have the time but we’ll talk”.

Fair to assume she doesn’t like me?

 

How long is your break? If it's all summer, then not having time is a problem. If it's a week, then sh's already met up with you this week and is already busy the rest of it.

Can you clarify this break thing, what you'll be returning to, and when?

[rainbowsandroses]

@SC2005I think a good rule of thumb to follow as you continue your journey is this:

Any response other than a yes, is a no. 

Not a no "at that moment," but flat out no.  She's not interested.

Stay away from women who are on the fence, confused, unsure, ambiguous, wishy-washy, send mixed messages, need time to think, "maybe" another time, etc.

Not proud to admit but I was once that woman. 😞  Guys hung around waiting for me to me "make up my mind" but it never ended well for them.

I was not interested and never really was.  I tried talking myself into liking them because they liked me, but again it never worked out well.  

Once you start meeting and dating women who are truly into you, you'll understand the difference.

Like I said before, no jumping through hoops figuring out the "right" thing to say or dissecting the meaning of her words, mixed messages, etc.

When a woman is interested in dating you (and she has her * together and doesn't play games), she will make it easy for you, she will meet you halfway so to speak and won't force you to play guessing games. 

There are always exceptions but it's a good general rule to follow imo and experience.

 

[SC2005]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

How long is your break? If it's all summer, then not having time is a problem. If it's a week, then sh's already met up with you this week and is already busy the rest of it.

Can you clarify this break thing, what you'll be returning to, and when?

The break is a week. We go back on Monday. It would make sense that she doesn’t have time (but if she’s into me she’d make time). 

We’re starting our job in the army after 3 months of training. I am NOT gonna be with her when we go back Monday. We only trained together. 
 

Curious why this clarification would affect your opinions on the situation. 

[SC2005]

29 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@SC2005I think a good rule of thumb to follow as you continue your journey is this:

Any response other than a yes, is a no. 

Not a no "at that moment," but flat out no.  She's not interested.

Stay away from women who are on the fence, confused, unsure, ambiguous, wishy-washy, send mixed messages, need time to think, "maybe" another time, etc.

Not proud to admit but I was once that woman. 😞  Guys hung around waiting for me to me "make up my mind" but it never ended well for them.

I was not interested and never really was.  I tried talking myself into liking them because they liked me, but again it never worked out well.  

Once you start meeting and dating women who are truly into you, you'll understand the difference.

Like I said before, no jumping through hoops figuring out the "right" thing to say or dissecting the meaning of her words, mixed messages, etc.

When a woman is interested in dating you (and she has her * together and doesn't play games), she will make it easy for you, she will meet you halfway so to speak and won't force you to play guessing games. 

There are always exceptions but it's a good general rule to follow imo and experience.

 

Thank you v much. 

[SC2005]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

I mean, she 100% was flirting, but that doesn't always translate to interest. 

For real? At least I wasn’t totally deluded then. What did I say she did that qualifies as flirting? 

 

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

I think she probably had NO idea that you were into her before the last minute and she probably didn't know how to handle it.

That’s crazy if true. I thought it was super clear and didn’t wanna overdo it at times. But her friend gave me similar feedback. I’m pretty introverted so my idea of speaking to her a lot may not have seems that way in her mind.

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

Also something that may put your mind at ease is this: it is always a good sign when a girl asks you questions, engages with you in conversation, remembers stuff you tell her, and genuinely wants to know more about you.

So, I wasn’t totally deluded in thinking she might be interested?

[catfeeder]

44 minutes ago, SC2005 said:

The break is a week. We go back on Monday. It would make sense that she doesn’t have time (but if she’s into me she’d make time). 

We’re starting our job in the army after 3 months of training. I am NOT gonna be with her when we go back Monday. We only trained together. 
 

Curious why this clarification would affect your opinions on the situation. 

Because we didn't know if 'break' meant a summer break from school or a training program or whatever, in which case having no time would mean a definite 'no interest'. But a week is only a week, and not too many people have a clean slate to meet with the same person twice in such a short period.

So in this case, her answer is NOT an indicator of interest because you limited your question to the break rather than opening it to catching up after your return to work.

It also mattered whether you would be continuing some kind training program that would have you seeing her on the regular. Since that's a no, then your separation is longer than this break, and you can extend an invitation to catch up on how your returns are going for each of you.

This isn't black-and-white binary stuff. There's a lot of real estate along the gradients, so if you're trying to measure important things based on small interactions, that will drive you nuts and offer you no accuracy.

[SC2005]

23 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Because we didn't know if 'break' meant a summer break from school or a raining program or whatever, in which case having no time would mean a definite 'no interest'. But a week is only a week, and not too many people have a clean slate to meet with the same person twice in such a short period.

So in this case, her answer is NOT an indicator of interest because you limited your question to the break rather than opening it to catching up after your return to work.

It also mattered whether you would be continuing some kind training program that would have you seeing her on the regular. Since that's a no, then your separation is longer than this break, and you can extend an invitation to catch up on how your returns are going for each of you.

This isn't black-and-white binary stuff. There's a lot of real estate along the gradients, so if you're trying to measure important things based on small interactions, that will drive you nuts and offer you no accuracy.

I appreciate this view but I think you’re wrong. Whilst it’s true she may genuinely not have time, if she really liked me she’d make time. So, I think it is an indication of disinterest. 
 

Regarding catching up on our return to work, I’ll leave that to her. I don’t really see a point in trying to force things on from my end.

Curious what others think. 

[rainbowsandroses]

17 minutes ago, SC2005 said:

I appreciate this view but I think you’re wrong. Whilst it’s true she may genuinely not have time, if she really liked me she’d make time. So, I think it is an indication of disinterest.

I agree.  Even if she couldn't make time at that moment or know when she could make time, she would have given you some indication of interest versus her rather chilly and ambiguous "Hi, not sure when I'll have time, but we'll talk."   

That was a blow off, I'm sorry.  And not how an interested woman would respond and yes imo some things are black and white.  

Combined with her not adding you to her friend/course-mate group, which would have been a great opportunity to continue seeing each other and interacting in a casual, non-pressurized environment, this is done.

There is no need to be overthinking/overanalyzing this.  As I said, at least imo, when a woman is interested there is no to very little guess work.  Unless she's playing some "hard to get" game which in this case, I don't think she is, plus I would not advise getting involved with a woman who plays such games anyway.

In addition to "anything other than a yes is a no," there is another popular saying often said on this forum "interested people ACT interested."

It's unclear why that is not being applied in this case by come people. 

@SC2005trust your instincts.  IMO, they are spot on and you read her response correctly.  You will save yourself a lot of confusion, frustration, and ultimately disappointment is you follow those two simple rules.

"Anything other than a yes, is a no" and "interested people act interested."

Good luck! 

[SC2005]

2 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I agree.  Even if she couldn't make time at that moment or know when she could make time, she would have given you some indication of interest versus her rather chilly and ambiguous "Hi, not sure when I'll have time, but we'll talk."   

That was a blow off, I'm sorry.  And not how an interested woman would respond and yes imo some things are black and white.  

Combined with her not adding you to her friend/coursemate group, which would have been a great opportunity to continue seeing each other and interacting without the pressure of "dating," this is done.

There is no need to be overthinking/overanalyzing this.  As I said, at least imo, when a woman is interested there is no to very little guess work.  Unless she's playing some "hard to get" game which in this case, I don't think she is, plus I would not advise getting involved with a woman who plays such games anyway.

In addition to "anything other than a yes is a no," there is another popular saying often said on this forum "interested people ACT interested."

It's unclear why that is not being applied in this case by come people. 

@SC2005trust your instincts.  IMO, they are spot on and you read her response correctly.  You will save yourself a lot of confusion, frustration, and ultimately disappointment is you follow those two simple rules.

"Anything other than a yes, is a no" and "interested people act interested."

Good luck! 

Thanks! I agree that’s it’s done. 
 

The thing is, going by your rules, she *did* act interested. She literally said she was sad she didn’t say bye to me and that it’s not goodbye. I think it’s likely that she’s a bit unsure what she feels about me as I really do think she was sending very mixed signals. 
 

In any case, as far as I’m concerned it’s a clear no.