Am I being fair

[TimeTold]

1 hour ago, lostandhurt said:

So he kind of moved in but not officially discussed. You shared some expenses but also never discussed them all the while he was still paying for an apartment.

 Were you living together?  Did he think you were living together?  Was he ever asked by you to move in? If so why keep the apartment?

Since it is your home then the mortgage and landscaping costs were yours to pay because if you break up he has nothing.  Now sharing other household expenses is absolutely fair but needs to be discussed ahead of time.  Utilities, cleaning, gardener, pest control, groceries and the like can all be worked out but it needs to be discussed not assumed.

  He didn't take advantage of you, both of you simply didn't work things out.  This reminds me of a thread where the woman thought she was in a committed relationship but never discussed it with her bf until she found out he was still "dating" other women. 

 Things ended badly in the heat of the moment.  Let it cool off a little and talk.  If nothing else it will give you both closure.

Lost

PS  ALL dogs shed, some more than others but they all loose hair all the time just like us.

He “unofficially” lived in my home 7 days a week. He still has his apartment because the lease was not up yet. I believe he is expected to get the renewal notice this month, for an October renewal. We will talk when that time comes and he will not renew it. This conversation was going to about our expectations. That was me foolishly saying that. Now it’s striking me, he played right along with that - he had a place to stay should things go left for us, so he really felt like he didn’t need to contribute to the household expenses, but once his lease was up that is when he would have that serious talk. Man was I foolish. I don’t feel like I was being used though, because I allowed it to happen and I enjoyed him being there with my dog and I, plus my dog had company and a new buddy in his dog, so that made me happy as well. When things were good with us, it was great. Things just went sour last week when I started to look at my checks and balances, and asked him for a range of money and he gave me the top end of it, only for us to have an argument a couple of days later because I didn’t jump and talk when he wanted to - like I said there was tension in the air with his family and him, and he was already in edge so when he confronted me about the money he wired/gifted me, I said let’s save that talk until things aren’t so weird. He then blew up, and days later he went in my account and made a few payments to his company for the sum he gave me, illegally (meaning it was not authorized).

all dogs do NOT shed. I have a Yorkie and he does not shed at all. The only time he loses fur is when I brush out some matting. He has a golden retriever, and they shed like nothing I’ve seen before. 

[Cherylyn]

5 minutes ago, TimeTold said:

He “unofficially” lived in my home 7 days a week. He still has his apartment because the lease was not up yet. I believe he is expected to get the renewal notice this month, for an October renewal. We will talk when that time comes and he will not renew it. This conversation was going to about our expectations. That was me foolishly saying that. Now it’s striking me, he played right along with that - he had a place to stay should things go left for us, so he really felt like he didn’t need to contribute to the household expenses, but once his lease was up that is when he would have that serious talk. Man was I foolish. I don’t feel like I was being used though, because I allowed it to happen and I enjoyed him being there with my dog and I, plus my dog had company and a new buddy in his dog, so that made me happy as well. When things were good with us, it was great. Things just went sour last week when I started to look at my checks and balances, and asked him for a range of money and he gave me the top end of it, only for us to have an argument a couple of days later because I didn’t jump and talk when he wanted to - like I said there was tension in the air with his family and him, and he was already in edge so when he confronted me about the money he wired/gifted me, I said let’s save that talk until things aren’t so weird. He then blew up, and days later he went in my account and made a few payments to his company for the sum he gave me, illegally (meaning it was not authorized).

all dogs do NOT shed. I have a Yorkie and he does not shed at all. The only time he loses fur is when I brush out some matting. He has a golden retriever, and they shed like nothing I’ve seen before. 

The relationship goes south once money is the reason.  I'm sorry for what happened to you.  You'll be more careful in the future.  Live and learn.

[TimeTold]

32 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

But if you pride yourself on being so independent seems odd to me that you'd take such a passive, submissive approach -about the house you worked so hard to have built and purchase.  You could have waited till you were married and perhaps had a prenup since from what you describe that may have been warranted.

Asking people for whatever doesn't mean a person isn't independent - or dependent- it simply means you are able to take care of yourself financially and otherwise at a level of a reasonably mature adult.  The "I don't need anyone!" doesn't make you independent necessarily -it simply means you've chosen to live without having to be vulnerable. 

I'm a very independent person.  I have been financially independent since 1997 when I finished paying off my grad school loans - I am almost 58.  I even was finanicially independent when I was a SAHM for 7 years. 

And I absolutely ask for help when needed.  I called my mother when I'd been in labor 12 hours by myself -husband was on a plane lol - I was 42 years old.  I've called friends when I needed advice and input and we asked our dear friend to help us when my dad was in a nursing home and being mistreated and we were 800 miles away with our young son.  My parents let me live at home rent free during grad school in my mid 20s. I didn't say I am woman hear me roar I will do this on my own and live on my own.  Because I happily depended on their generosity so I could focus entirely on a grueling graduate school program.  And I didn't feel any less independent.

You're all about trumpeting how you are a home owner, you did this by yourself, etc -and that is a fabulous accomplishment (not one I would ever want for myself but for sure it's a fabulous accomplishment). And yet when you meet someone you've known less than one of your pairs of socks, all of a sudden him and his fur baby are basically living with you, all of a sudden you're making all these odd assumptions about how and when he will contribute, all of a sudden this new man is now dictating an expensive landscaping project and all based on "talk" of a future.  To me that's inconsistent with being an independent person leading an independent lifestyle.

You probably saved for this home and planned it and enmeshed yourself in all the details for years -yes? Then at the drop of a hat you're following around some dude like a non-shedding puppy dog about a massive change to your dream home? And assuming he's going to pay for it?  For sure he also took advantage and for sure I'm surprised that such an independent woman with such a successful career in your past made these choices.  Aren't you??

I was allowing him to have a say in what went on in the house (projects, tools needed, how to organize the garage for working out). 
ike I said, I was foolish - I am the first one to point the finger at all I did wrong in this relationship. 
 

You guys are reading black and white - but the actual communication we had about the project you would have sworn he owned it. Again, it got taken care of in the end, but yes, I was disappointed that he did not volunteer to say do this. For instance, we are in the nursery, he picked out all these lovely trees because he had a vision that I was on board with, we get to the register, who ends up paying. I automatically thought he was going to pay. Was I upset, not at all. I never discussed it further - was just excited to get home and see it come to life. 
 

again, he did many wonderful things for me throughout the relationship. He is not a bad guy at all. He just was very sheltered and didn’t know how to love in his next relationship (me). He also made it very uncomfortable for me to ask  or talk about what I expect from him financially (household responsibilities) because of the way he spoke about everyone else in his life. At one point he actually made me believe he hated women deep down the way he spoke about his loved ones. 

I don’t know where it got lost in translation but I have been gifted many things throughout my lifetime, by family, friends, and exes - they have been very good to me. I accepted and never once felt any less independent because of it. I mentioned my independence here to illustrate that I didn’t depend on him for anything, I was enjoying our romance and foolishly playing house and not having the necessary conversation(s).

 

[catfeeder]

4 hours ago, TimeTold said:

...can you all help to shed some light on all of this - was I wrong, was he wrong?

I wish I could, but I don't understand what happened. Here's my best guess. You've been resenting him about not meeting expectations you've never voiced. Out of nowhere you asked him for a large sum of money without explaining what it was for. He paid it but didn't understand what it was for and wanted to discuss it. You didn't want to discuss it. So the whole thing blew up?

I don't think it's fair to expect another to read your mind. Other people aren't 'us' so they will each operate differently. It sounds like neither of you communicated your desires, goals and expectations of the other, so you both became unhappy with one another.

[yogacat]

As an independent woman it still appears that you gave up your power and became reactive instead of proactive. 

The moment you did laundry, shopping and basically procured for yourself as well as him there was a power shift. Real mistake was not sitting down and talking about it from the beginning. 

I'm curious though --- this landscaping project --- even if he made suggestions, why is it that he had to take ownership and contribute? If $40k wasn't feasible for you, why not downsize?  Was it assumed that since he stayed at your place regularly and didn't chip in for housing expenses (less the occasional groceries and dates out) that he had $40k to give you? 

I think he was wrong in lashing out and being nasty BUT in the same coin you must recognize that you allowed yourself and him to build up resentment by not being honest about your feelings in regards to the household finances. 

Behaviors like taking the money back or smirking at calling in to the appointment you made later that day did not start overnight. Behaviors like not contributing financially did not start overnight.

You knew somewhat of his past before forging ahead into a bunch of entanglements.

Staying at your place all the time and not contributing equals taking advantage of you. Maybe he didn't even think twice on it. You offer to pick up the check several times, he lets you.

You open your house to him then you turn around and say "why don't you ever pay rent?" You let his dog stay over, yet you are disgusted by the shedding.

Know what that breeds --- resentment. Your whole relationship with this guy has been nothing but bait and switches - on both parts.

And, there's the drinking...

Oy.

He was upset because it seems like you relied on him to cover for the costs of building the house and maintaining it when you were off work. His placing money in your account after you asked for it brought up anger in him - since his own mother and sisters were manipulative and he probably feels the same way now.

If he was truly giving you the money as a gift and then retracted it when he got upset, that's a clear indicator that he has some anger issues. Especially if you've never asked him for money before and always taken care of yourself financially.

[TimeTold]

45 minutes ago, LotusBlack said:

But, none of that is relevant, really. Your question for this post was "Am I being fair?". In my opinion, no, you're not being fair with your finical expectations because you never discussed about and agreed upon a financial arrangement from the outset. Your question was about whether you were being fair regarding kicking him out and not having him back because of his lack of financial contribution.

Now, regarding his other issues you had a problem with - that is entirely your choice as to whether you stay in that relationship or not. You choosing to be with someone who has habits you don't like - but still decide to remain with them - does not justify unfair financial expectations. Those things are completely separate issues. 

You don't need permission from others to end a relationship. Nor do you need your partner's agreement. If something isn't working for you, you have the right to end it. You can't engage in a relationship with someone who has habits you don't like, but be angry that you have a partner who does that. If it's a deal breaker, then break the deal. If it isn't a deal breaker, then don't take issue with it to the point it disrupts the relationship in an unhealthy way.

What cause the last set of feelings I have and led to me telling him take all his stuff not some was around me not talking and itemizing for him where every penny he wired me was going. He wanted a conversation right there and then, when I knew the time wasnt right for that plus I felt like I didn’t have to tell him where every penny of a monetary gift was going. He basically caught a tantrum, yelled curse called be the b word told me to F off and said I was like the rest of them and I should have asked for a larger amount and go be a who-re like them. (His sisters are not ***), when he gets upset or hurt he says the worst things to hurt you. At this stage I wanted him out of my home. I gave you guys the gist of it. Again, this is the last incident that happened and was weighing heavy on my mind and I needed to get it out. I really love him and I am sorry it came down to this with him. 
 

I have never wrote in a forum before and honestly I wasn’t really asking anyone if I should stay or leave - that decision here is ultimately up to me. I wanted input…all feedback was/is sincerely appreciated!

[LootieTootie]

Reading this, I think I'm with catfeeder here. You were being the "cool girlfriend" - the girlfriend who was passive and willing to go with the flow. He never had this BUT once you started to expect more from him, he was probably dumbfounded. I mean yes, you did point out to him about the cleaning lady but when he actually asked you to have a talk about why all of a sudden you're charging me a huge sum, you tell him to hold off.

I can see why you both are wrong and its a lack of clear communication.

 

[yogacat]

12 minutes ago, TimeTold said:

He basically caught a tantrum, yelled curse called be the b word told me to F off and said I was like the rest of them and I should have asked for a larger amount and go be a who-re like them. (His sisters are not ***), when he gets upset or hurt he says the worst things to hurt you. At this stage I wanted him out of my home. I gave you guys the gist of it. Again, this is the last incident that happened and was weighing heavy on my mind and I needed to get it out. I really love him and I am sorry it came down to this with him. 

Yeah, this guy has major baggage/issues. Sorry 😞 

[TimeTold]

7 minutes ago, yogacat said:

As an independent woman it still appears that you gave up your power and became reactive instead of proactive. 

The moment you did laundry, shopping and basically procured for yourself as well as him there was a power shift. Real mistake was not sitting down and talking about it from the beginning. 

I'm curious though --- this landscaping project --- even if he made suggestions, why is it that he had to take ownership and contribute? If $40k wasn't feasible for you, why not downsize?  Was it assumed that since he stayed at your place regularly and didn't chip in for housing expenses (less the occasional groceries and dates out) that he had $40k to give you? 

I think he was wrong in lashing out and being nasty BUT in the same coin you must recognize that you allowed yourself and him to build up resentment by not being honest about your feelings in regards to the household finances. 

Behaviors like taking the money back or smirking at calling in to the appointment you made later that day did not start overnight. Behaviors like not contributing financially did not start overnight. You knew somewhat of his past before forging ahead into a bunch of entanglements.

Staying at your place all the time and not contributing equals taking advantage of you. Maybe he didn't even think twice on it. You offer to pick up the check several times, he lets you.

You open your house to him then you turn around and say "why don't you ever pay rent?" You let his dog stay over, yet you are disgusted by the shedding.

Know what that breeds --- resentment. Your whole relationship with this guy has been nothing but bait and switches - on both parts.

And, there's the drinking...

Oy.

Please reread what I wrote. I never said I wanted him to foot the whole 40k. Yes I stand firm it would be considerate for him to volunteer to contribute to that. I also never said the final cost of the landscaping wasn’t feasible for me. 
 

I agree with you, I was definitely NOT proactive in some aspects. 
 

yeah I was definitely prematurely “playing house”. I take all accountability for that. 

[TimeTold]

26 minutes ago, LootieTootie said:

Reading this, I think I'm with catfeeder here. You were being the "cool girlfriend" - the girlfriend who was passive and willing to go with the flow. He never had this BUT once you started to expect more from him, he was probably dumbfounded. I mean yes, you did point out to him about the cleaning lady but when he actually asked you to have a talk about why all of a sudden you're charging me a huge sum, you tell him to hold off.

I can see why you both are wrong and its a lack of clear communication.

 

I definitely had to hold off on that conversation when he wanted to have it last week. He was riled up about some family stuff (not related to him and I) and it sounded like when he was questioning me about the money he was already not in the best frame of mind and his tone sounded like displaced anger (towards me), so I told him let’s talk about it when there is not so much tension. He wanted control (that was always his thing with me) and wanted me to report to him how the monetary gift was being spent. 

apologies,  I haven’t read all the responses to this post yet, so I missed the comment about the cool girlfriend 

[yogacat]

11 minutes ago, TimeTold said:

Please reread what I wrote. I never said I wanted him to foot the whole 40k. Yes I stand firm it would be considerate for him to volunteer to contribute to that. I also never said the final cost of the landscaping wasn’t feasible for me. 
 

I agree with you, I was definitely NOT proactive in some aspects. 
 

yeah I was definitely prematurely “playing house”. I take all accountability for that. 

Okay.

You wanted him to "contribute" a portion of his money towards it (you meant).

Duly noted.

I don't really think it's on him to volunteer on that, but I do think he needed to pay something towards housing expenses since he practically moved in.

Nonetheless, the way he has spoken to you combined with his drinking and not really contributing all points to "NOT GOOD."

[TimeTold]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

I wish I could, but I don't understand what happened. Here's my best guess. You've been resenting him about not meeting expectations you've never voiced. Out of nowhere you asked him for a large sum of money without explaining what it was for. He paid it but didn't understand what it was for and wanted to discuss it. You didn't want to discuss it. So the whole thing blew up?

I don't think it's fair to expect another to read your mind. Other people aren't 'us' so they will each operate differently. It sounds like neither of you communicated your desires, goals and expectations of the other, so you both became unhappy with one another.

No I told him high level it was this and that and to bring me back in line with my yearly budget. I set a budget on how much I will spend on certain things each year. I would not say I resented him because I still love, appreciated, cared for him wholeheartedly. I just knew certain things need to happen, but again, that was not properly communicated - we were just going with the flow, lack of a better term. He was not unhappy. He had it great. I was not unhappy either for the most part. I really loved him. 

[lostandhurt]

Seems to me the conversation should happen before the request for money.  As it happened there was no conversation just a request for money that you felt he didn't need to know where every penny went.  He reacted badly and the living situation was just allowed to happen without any discussion.  With the sums of money involved it is obvious now that was not the way to go. To bad really as from what you wrote the relationship was going well.

 I will not debate with you if a Yorkie sheds or not but a quick google search will answer that question. My sisters have Yorkies btw.

Not sure how he got access to your accounts to remove money but you should change your passwords on everything right away.

Lost

[catfeeder]

13 hours ago, TimeTold said:

No I told him high level it was this and that and to bring me back in line with my yearly budget. I set a budget on how much I will spend on certain things each year. I would not say I resented him because I still love, appreciated, cared for him wholeheartedly. I just knew certain things need to happen, but again, that was not properly communicated - we were just going with the flow, lack of a better term. He was not unhappy. He had it great. I was not unhappy either for the most part. I really loved him. 

If you were happy with the relationship, why did you want to kick him out with finality? It was reasonable for him to want to understand why you were considering him to be an investor in your property. That's not a typical assumption. It also didn't need to become a contentious one. A mutual willingness to communicate, negotiate and find common ground is a crucial skill in all successful relationships. This doesn't mean that successful couples don't fight--they certainly do, and some fight often. But these are little border skirmishes rather than full on adversarial assaults.

Decide whether you love this man enough to be on the same side.

[Batya33]

15 hours ago, TimeTold said:

we were just going with the flow, lack of a better term. He was not unhappy. He had it great. I was not unhappy either for the most part. I really loved him. 

When large sums of money invested in your property as a gift plus him spearheading major renovations are at play it's a bad idea IMO to "go with the flow" -surely as a career person and independent person you know better? "He had it great" gives me the impression you were trying to buy him -see I have this huge house I own and if you move in you can have the privilege of living in a gorgeous house too!  Sounds "great" from a materialistic standpoint (if you like that sort of thing -not my thing at all) but what's this focus on how you showed him a different lifestyle and he had it great - that's an odd dynamic for a loving romantic relationship.

[TimeTold]

On 7/12/2024 at 1:23 PM, Batya33 said:

When large sums of money invested in your property as a gift plus him spearheading major renovations are at play it's a bad idea IMO to "go with the flow" -surely as a career person and independent person you know better? "He had it great" gives me the impression you were trying to buy him -see I have this huge house I own and if you move in you can have the privilege of living in a gorgeous house too!  Sounds "great" from a materialistic standpoint (if you like that sort of thing -not my thing at all) but what's this focus on how you showed him a different lifestyle and he had it great - that's an odd dynamic for a loving romantic relationship.

He had it great yes. His words actually, not mine. But I do agree with him! Please note, it wasn’t about the house…there was/is plenty more than that. 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, TimeTold said:

He had it great yes. His words actually, not mine. But I do agree with him! Please note, it wasn’t about the house…there was/is plenty more than that. 

I’d try to date men only where you feel like you both have it great. 

[TimeTold]

On 7/12/2024 at 11:42 AM, catfeeder said:

If you were happy with the relationship, why did you want to kick him out with finality? It was reasonable for him to want to understand why you were considering him to be an investor in your property. That's not a typical assumption. It also didn't need to become a contentious one. A mutual willingness to communicate, negotiate and find common ground is a crucial skill in all successful relationships. This doesn't mean that successful couples don't fight--they certainly do, and some fight often. But these are little border skirmishes rather than full on adversarial assaults.

Decide whether you love this man enough to be on the same side.

When yelling, cursing at me, slamming and throwing things were involved, and it happened on more than one occasion, then yes, I told him to pack all and go. Me not wanting to talk to him at that moment because of how thick the air was, I still feel was the best decision. I also simply told him let’s discuss another day when the tones were different. So me not wanted to talk at that moment and explaining why did not warrant that type of behavior towards me. 

[catfeeder]

19 minutes ago, TimeTold said:

When yelling, cursing at me, slamming and throwing things were involved, and it happened on more than one occasion, then yes, I told him to pack all and go. Me not wanting to talk to him at that moment because of how thick the air was, I still feel was the best decision. I also simply told him let’s discuss another day when the tones were different. So me not wanted to talk at that moment and explaining why did not warrant that type of behavior towards me. 

Got it. And, yes, none of the above are reasonable negotiation skills--just the opposite. So I guess you lucked out by being able to enjoy what you could before he showed his abusive side, and you were smart enough and self respectful enough to ditch that.

Everyone is fallible, it's how we learn our way through. If a partner views your human fallibilities through a lens of partnership--being on the same side despite differences--then it's not about "I win" versus "You win," but rather, the relationship wins. But if someone demonstrates no willingness to do that, then he's not your partner, he's your adversary. CongrAts on walking away from that, and head high.

[yogacat]

He basically inferred that you're a ******  like his sisters.

He doesn't have a very high opinion of any of the women in his life which would seem to me that he really has unresolved anger and resentment towards women in general. "Bitter angry men" however you choose to label it - once they unload all of this stuff on you, the whole relationship is poisoned, the love and affection is gone and detached from who he really is.

"Nothing can be ever made right in their eyes" - the whole thing will always cycle back to anger and resentments towards you - like you're responsible for the fact he's had a bad marriage. 

[LootieTootie]

4 hours ago, TimeTold said:

When yelling, cursing at me, slamming and throwing things were involved, and it happened on more than one occasion, then yes, I told him to pack all and go. Me not wanting to talk to him at that moment because of how thick the air was, I still feel was the best decision. I also simply told him let’s discuss another day when the tones were different. So me not wanted to talk at that moment and explaining why did not warrant that type of behavior towards me. 

Yes sounds like a wacko and good for you for finally stepping up and kicking him to the curb. Nobody deserves that type of treatment.

On 7/11/2024 at 6:43 PM, TimeTold said:

apologies,  I haven’t read all the responses to this post yet, so I missed the comment about the cool girlfriend 

I think a lot of women, not just you, want to be the "cool girlfriend" but sometimes being "cool girlfriend" can really backfire on you. You want to be non-dramatic, low-key and low maintenance BUT there are things you know that do bother you about the relationship and your partner's behavior or quirks. Yet somehow you are trying to maintain this low-key, low maintenance persona and addressing it will rock the boat.

Next time, I encourage you to be honest with yourself and speak up early. Don't hold it all in thinking "not a big deal, I can handle it." When an individual feels their generosity being taken advantage of, their patience starts waning and that can manifest into all sorts of negative energy and vibes.

Please be kind to yourself and know that you are better by yourself than with that guy. I also agree with YogaCat, he sounds like a woman-hater. Guys like that need to be miserable by themselves.