Would you agree with this?

[catfeeder]

9 hours ago, mylolita said:

...What I have found is, there is no “official “ logical or reasonable time for relationships and love. What seems like rushing and illogical to one is perfectly sane and natural to the other. Each couple are going to do things differently.

Yes, I agree. I think that's where the word 'alignment' comes in, where both people are comfortable with communication and how things unfold.

Quote

...When you know, you know. And if you know yourself well enough, you can be even surer. 

Sure, I think simpatico is beautiful and rare, and yes, it's crystal clear when we strike it with someone. 

Quote

Can I ask if you are married @catfeeder? Or have you been in a long term relationship before? What was your experience? 

Not married, and several long term relationships. Cohabitated twice, 3 years and 4 years. Then my last long term involved the man moving in with me while his home was being finished. I nearly moved in with him until I learned that his plans were to move his mother and twin autistic brothers in with us. Permanently. He had it all figured out. He honestly believed that he'd shared this vision with me over the course of the last year, and I was all in. Uhm... wow.

I think this is an example of simpatico with no alignment. You can love and truly enjoy a partner even while you learn that you each hold visions of a future that don't align. At all. I don't hold this up as something that happens often, or to everyone, which is why I'm not about badmouthing couples who dive in quickly and work together to keep things working. But I do caution against getting so caught up in the romance that the practical stuff of real life gets reduced to assumptions and projections that can blow things up. Too much, too soon can really be a thing.

[catfeeder]

19 hours ago, yogacat said:

That’s why I never take 'love at first sight' too seriously because love that sticks takes time and effort. 'Love at first sight' is only possible when the idea is reinforced into your mind through romance and stories but when you take the time to dissect that statement, it just doesn’t make sense.

Hah! Yeah, I hear and I agree with your noted differences between love versus attraction or love versus infatuation. I can say, however, that I've experienced meeting someone and right off the bat I was able to say to myself, "This is someone that I could potentially love..." So I guess I'll put myself in the camp of "love-at-first-sight-light".

[yogacat]

9 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Hah! Yeah, I hear and I agree with your noted differences between love versus attraction or love versus infatuation. I can say, however, that I've experienced meeting someone and right off the bat I was able to say to myself, "This is someone that I could potentially love..." So I guess I'll put myself in the camp of "love-at-first-sight-light".

Again, I've felt that too. But it was after about 4 dates. I have never met someone and it was instant. Why is there such a big deal about love-at-first-sight, as if it was some massive achievement to fall in love with someone you have just met?

I mean really, what is this "thing" that says oh, love at first sight is the end all, be all, it's the ultimate orgasm. I just don't get it. What's the big deal. People are fallible and so is their judgement.  It's like something out of a novel or a movie, except life is nothing like a novel or movie. purrrrrfect

When I was in high school I had been watching The Andy Griffith Show with an unexamined voracity. In one episode, Deputy Barney Fife starts romancing a newcomer to the town. He fell "in love" with her at first sight. The shows' writers purposely featured the evolution of what they call "love at first sight." It was a fallacy exaggerated in pre-teen and teenage mentalities. I reckon that more young adults watch some version of this trope in modern teenage TV shows even today. The TV episode I was referring to is "Andy and Barney in the Big City" (if I recall...).

There is definitely a romanticized notion of love-at-first-sight in movies and media. 

A bit here too.

In a pure Christian view, Love at First sight is what you see when you look in a young child's eyes, there is no judgement or anything, just pure love to be given and received, because innocence love, the love of possibility! 

Once again, I apologize. I don't want to completely dismiss or undermine anyone's thoughts or feelings on this topic. While I do think the idea of love-at-first-sight is often exaggerated or romanticized.

I do believe that there are instances where it can happen. Maybe not in the traditional sense as portrayed in media, but I think it's possible for people to feel a strong connection and immediate attraction to someone upon first meeting them. 

However, I also think that love-at-first-sight is often conflated with infatuation or attraction, and it's important to distinguish between the two.

So, let's not get too caught up in the idea of love-at-first-sight and instead focus on developing genuine connections and relationships with people, however they may come about.

[Batya33]

Just now, yogacat said:

Why is there such a big deal about love-at-first-sight, as if it was some massive achievement to fall in love with someone you have just met, only in movies life.

Who's making a big deal of it in your social circle, among your friends? Movies/tv/social media - sure it's fun it's great click bait, makes for breathlessly romantic movies - like for example Serendipity! Why can't it just be fun, intriguing, entertaining? Who gets caught up to the extent of feeling truly less than when they meet a person and realize -in whatever time frame -this person is a great match for them for a long term romantic relationship?

By analogy I noticed this thing on SM where if you don't experience natural birth - no c-section, no drugs, where if you "give in" to the epidural or agree to the c-section or gasp schedule a c-section- your "birth experience" was somehow less than - it astounded me and boy was I glad I wasn't bombarded with that pre-birth.  The magic to me of growing a human and giving birth to a human -however that happened -(for me epidural and last minute almost emergency c-section -for my sister -several natural no drug births) - the love I felt when pregnant, when he was born, falling in love with my son - how dare anyone suggest that because their birth was drug-free and natural it was superior in experience to mine.  I'm an adult. 

Therefore I didn't let others' expectations and beliefs about this magical moment (just like meeting the right person can be a true milestone, a magical moment) color my experience or make me feel less than.  I'm not a sheep.  If they want to romanticize and elevate and focus on love at first sight, natural birth, the perfect proposal that is also -who woulda thought - perfect for FB photos - more power to 'em.  I'll do me.

[DarkCh0c0]

52 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Yes, he was surprised. He begged and pleaded and cried which made me feel even more guilty.  But in the end, I knew I wasn't ready for such a long-term commitment at that time in my life.  He also became very complacent during our relationship and I started to lose attraction for him, which I know wasn't fair to him either.

I went from being in a long term relationship prior to him, to being in one with him and felt I needed some time to focus on myself and figure out what I wanted in life. He understood, but it still hurt him deeply.

We remained friends after the breakup, but I could tell he was always holding on to the hope that we would get back together. However, seeing him happy and settled with his family now, I know I made the right decision for both of us.

Sometimes, love isn't enough to make a relationship work. Timing, readiness, and personal growth are all important factors. Even though things didn't work out for us, I will always cherish the time we had together and the memories we made. I'm happy to see him happy and fulfilled, and I know that's all I ever wanted for him.

Waw. You're so courageous to walk away from such a relationship. Glad it's good on both sides.

[rainbowsandroses]

21 hours ago, catfeeder said:

So I think it's not the love part that bothers me, it's the indiscretion and the rush. Why rush if you have nothing to hide, right?

^^As M. Scott Peck wrote (The Road Less Traveled), it's a form of temporary insanity! Lol

I chuckle but seriously I believe it! 

I felt it with one of my ex's and he felt with me and said so!  In fact, he couldn't stop saying so!   And in truth I loved it because at the time I was as "insane" as he was!  It was many years ago but I recall it quite vividly. 

Running high on emotions, somewhat delusional, high on love pheromones, all those crazy feelings/emotions that imo aren't really about "love" but rather limerence, infatuation, physical/emotional attraction which can be intense!  

But then again who am I to tell another person what love is to them?  No one, I'm one person and can't speak for how others define love for themselves.

This is just my opinion but I think the difference between why some people welcome early declarations of "love" and some don't is because they're not on the same page about the intensity of their feelings.  I'm projecting because it was/is definitely true for me..

Of course one should always be aware and cautious of love-bombing because in many cases, as fast as such intense feelings/relationships begin, there is a tendency for them to fizzle out just as fast.

Not always but it's something to be aware of.

With my ex I spoke of, in addition to him declaring his strong feelings VERY early in, he also wanted to rush in seeing me every day, talking throughout the day etc..

It was too much for me and I asked that we slow things down and I explained why. 

He actually understood and did slow down.  And we were together six years and our initial attraction never faded.

He actually thanked me later in the relationship for slowing things down as he said his tendency was to rush in, rush out. 

With me he never did and even asked me to marry him and we got engaged. 

Long story but I broke the engagement and we both eventually moved on.

JMO guys based on my experience.

 

 

[catfeeder]

34 minutes ago, yogacat said:

...Why is there such a big deal about love-at-first-sight, as if it was some massive achievement to fall in love with someone you have just met?

I mean really, what is this "thing" that says oh, love at first sight is the end all, be all, it's the ultimate orgasm. I just don't get it. What's the big deal. People are fallible and so is their judgement.  It's like something out of a novel or a movie, except life is nothing like a novel or movie. purrrrrfect

Yeah, I can think of two other examples of media hype that have conditioned people to believe that there must be something 'wrong' if they don't experience it or live that way. One is 'simultaneous orgasm,' even while plenty of people, mostly women, have trouble having an orgasm of any kind in the first place, much less timed to match their partner's. The other is some weird implied pressure to model one's social life after scenes from staged friends' or neighbors' homes in movies and TV shows, where countless people feel free to walk in and out for the kind of witty interactions we're accustomed to seeing on a stage or film. Uhm...none of that is typical of anyone I've ever known. Not even in college dorms or shared living spaces. Who just walks in, says stuff, and walks out? And does it mean we're just social lepers if we don't have people doing that in our homes?

So I wouldn't get too frustrated by the insta-love memes that imply some kind of advanced soul journey or whatever that you must be missing out on if you've never looked at another soul and fell into total captivation with the idea of spending the rest of your life with them. Notice instead your reaction to mostly everyone who comes to this or any advice forum starting out with "We clicked right away--everything was perfect..."

Right. And then reality happened. Uhm... Yoga, you're not alone.

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

The other is some weird implied pressure to model one's social life after scenes from staged friends' or neighbors' homes in movies and TV shows, where countless people feel free to walk in and out for the kind of witty interactions we're accustomed to seeing on a stage or film. Uhm...none of that is typical of anyone I've ever known. Not even in college dorms or shared living spaces. Who just walks in, says stuff, and walks out? And does it mean we're just social lepers if we don't have people doing that in our homes?

But -what if the guy's taxi light is on (a la Charlotte Sex and the City - when a man is ready for marriage his taxi light-vacancy light/available -is "on").

Great points. Yes. I dial back what I said.  Also your orgasm comment reminded me of Dr. Ruth.  RIP

[rainbowsandroses]

Perhaps the phrase "love at first sight " is just that - a phrase, a figure of speech describing an immediate and intense attraction to another person that goes beyond the physical.

As such it's not meant to be taken seriously just like other non-literal phrases and rhetoric in the Englush language. 

Like "I caught feelings" or "I fell pregnant." For example.

It may or may not lead to "love," time will tell..

I've used the phrase, I used it in my previous to describe that immediate "feeling" I felt with an ex but I followed it by saying I didn't believe it to be "love," again it was intense attraction, infatuation, limerence that in time eventually became a deep love. 

I would have taken a bullet for that man. 

[catfeeder]

49 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

...Running on emotions, somewhat delusional, high on love pheromones, all those crazy feelings/emotions that imo aren't really about "love" but rather limerence, infatuation, physical/emotional attraction which can be intense!  

Oh, yeah! I think any of us who've loved can relate to this, because it IS a 'high'. it's our own body's natural high, and it IS intoxicating and fabulous.

I think lots of people downplay the power of hormone responses in the body. Women do this because we are taught the necessity of tamping down on hormonal PMS, menstrual and pregnancy reactions in order to function in the word and our relationships, and men are conditioned to treat their own emotions as manageable while pointing to womens' as over-reactions. But I once read that the hormones in our bodies are so strong that if you were to take an eyedropper full of hormonal fluid cast in red dye and squeeze it out into an olympic sized swimming pool, it would change the whole pool to red. That's how powerful a hormonal flush through a system can be.

So the term 'drunk on love' is pretty accurate. That's why loving responsibly can mean not taking the wheel and driving straight into any permanent decisions right away. Sober up first, and enjoy how things play out.

[catfeeder]

16 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

But -what if the guy's taxi light is on (a la Charlotte Sex and the City - when a man is ready for marriage his taxi light-vacancy light/available -is "on").

Great points. Yes. I dial back what I said.  Also your orgasm comment reminded me of Dr. Ruth.  RIP

Hahah! I remember that scene. I'd also heard it before and loved the analogy. I like the idea of keeping my own light on. I'm not cynical, just really discerning about who I'll allow to ride with me. I don't need the fare, I'm just open to the right company.

[DarkCh0c0]

36 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

But -what if the guy's taxi light is on (a la Charlotte Sex and the City - when a man is ready for marriage his taxi light-vacancy light/available -is "on").

Toot toot beep beep! 😉🥰

[catfeeder]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Who's making a big deal of it in your social circle, among your friends? Movies/tv/social media - sure it's fun it's great click bait, makes for breathlessly romantic movies...

This is a really great question. It applies to any situation where I'm feeling a pressure. I use such questions to reduce my blood pressure and feelings of anxiety, especially in work situations, by asking myself, "Where do I think this pressure is coming from?" And I've noticed that the answer is never 'everybody'.  That's only the blanket statement I used to justify my reaction to it.

The answer is usually something I've just picked up from somewhere negligible and expanded into a driving force behind some focus I've developed. Once I question it, I'm able to minimize it--or even crush it.

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

Toot toot beep beep! 😉🥰

I talk with my hands a lot but as my husband pointed out many years ago as I did so on a Manhattan street I inadvertently hailed a cab.....

[Batya33]

Just now, catfeeder said:

This is a really great question. It applies to any situation where I'm feeling a pressure. I use such questions to reduce my blood pressure and feelings of anxiety, especially in work situations, by asking myself, "Where do I think this pressure is coming from?" And I've noticed that the answer is never 'everybody'.  That's only the blanket statement I used to justify my reaction to it.

The answer is usually something I've just picked up from somewhere negligible and expanded into a driving force behind some focus I've developed. Once I question it, I'm able to minimize it--or even crush it.

That's a great approach -thank you!

[DarkCh0c0]

Just now, Batya33 said:

I talk with my hands a lot but as my husband pointed out many years ago as I did so on a Manhattan street I inadvertently hailed a cab

Lol

His taxi light was on 🤭🫡

[rainbowsandroses]

30 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

I think lots of people downplay the power of hormone responses in the body. Women do this because we are taught the necessity of tamping down on hormonal PMS, menstrual and pregnancy reactions in order to function in the word and our relationships, and men are conditioned to treat their own emotions as manageable while pointing to womens' as over-reactions.

Hmm, perhaps I misunderstood your words, but my ex (a man) felt that "love at first sight" feeling too though, I think perhaps even stronger than I!!  And said so! 

I had to actually slow HIM down.

I've had a few men go quite gaga even sometimes before first meet when I did OLD.  

But I question what that "feeling" was based on since in most cases, I wasn't feeling a damn thing for them.

 

 

[catfeeder]

Just now, rainbowsandroses said:

Hmm, my ex (a man) felt that "love at first sight" feeling too though, I think perhaps even stronger than I!!  And said so! 

I had to actually slow HIM down.

I've had a few men go quite gaga even sometimes before first meet when I did OLD.  

But I question what that "feeling" was based on since in most cases, I wasn't feeling a damn thing for them.

Exactly. This is the crucial thing about 'alignment'. We can all feel a spark--or not. We can all enjoy simpatico--rarely, but that's what makes it so fabulous when we strike it. But the 'gaga' thing is only enjoyable when it's mutual, and even then, as in your case, you needed to step up to be the sane one for both of you.

So maybe that's what I'm advocating--sanity. I love love, just like the next person. I just grew out of being stupid about it. Yet! I say that with reservations, because we never know when I might be on here asking for you wonderful people to talk me out of stupidity. Hey, drugs are drugs. Just because we produce them instead of buying them doesn't mean that they can't make even the most cautious amongst us stUpid. 

[yogacat]

7 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Who's making a big deal of it in your social circle, among your friends?

No one actually, lol.

I just thought it would be an interesting discourse in cultural narratives and expectations. Really, no one actually . Just had the idea randomly. 

Although I have seen it play out in the media and with my friends - the whole "love at first sight" thing and idealizing certain ways of meeting a potential partner. But I agree with you - it shouldn't make someone feel less than if they didn't have that exact experience. Everyone's love story is unique and special in its own way.

I recall when I first started dating an ex, my apartment flooded, he rushed to take off work and came over and cleaned my entire place and brought me flowers (I think we had been dating for about 3 weeks at that point). I was 25, I thought it was oddly very familiar for him to do that - as if we had known each other a very long time.

Friends later remarked how romantic it was <personally I got more of a compassionate protective vibe than romantic, I mean he didn't even ask me to clean my own place he just rolled up his sleeves and cleaned it all> but, I didn't think to myself, wow, this is it, this is the man I am going to marry. I just thought he was being a good guy. But my friends at the time were so excited for me, they really believed it meant something big and was some big sign. I think that's how it is.

We minute details like in movies that foreshadow a later plot, you know? That moment was more of a summary of his character than it was specific event.

Anyway, sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I think it's absolutely wonderful that there have been couples that experienced love at first sight or met in the most romantic of ways.

The purpose of this thread was not to belittle or discredit those experiences, but rather to open up a discussion and see others' perspectives on the idea that society often puts a heavy emphasis on those types of "took one look at each other and knew they were meant to be" moments.

I apologize if it came across differently than intended. I just find it intriguing how society has built up this idealized version of meeting "the one." 

I've witnessed couples say, "oh, it was love at first sight," and their husbands or wife cheated or someone experiences ultra-romantic where everything is perfectly groomed and choreographed - and bam within a few months he/she learns who he truly is, thinking underneath, "and you think you knew he/she was 'the one?'"

Yes, call me a cynic in that regard, but when I see the overly romanticized, preordained lawful scenario, I immediately wonder what's hiding underneath. Granted, sometimes it's real and there's nothing hidden, but it just seems contrived cause I know life ain't all roses. If there's anything that I definitely know, it is that I don't know nuttin.... 😁

[Batya33]

I meant you were upset about expectations about love at first sight but if you meant expectations from movies/ads/social media I mean that's very different from expectations from your parents especially placed on children- we all are subject to fantasy notions of relationships, marriage, love, sex. It's not going to stop and I think it's very rare for adults to take that to heart such that it has to stop - by contrast for sure if parents instill certain beliefs and expectations in  a young child that can have long lasting effects- positive or negative!  I mean my mom told me -later on though -never date a man who cancels just because it's raining lol.  And because she said it -I agree 😉

I don't see the relevance of your example -so you met a guy who was very kind and went the extra mile and you didn't see yourself marrying him.  Makes perfect sense.  You noted how kind he was, how he went all out and for you it didn't translate to -this is my person.  I mean many people thank goodness have gone the extra mile for me and I have done it many many times for others and it doesn't mean we want to marry each other even if it was in a dating context.

Many years ago when my future husband and I were dating I was on the phone and pacing all over looking for my hair scrunchie. All of a sudden my husband shows up and quietly hands me a scrunchie.  How the heck did he know I was pacing for that reason? But for sure that was huge confirmation as to how much he was my person.  He also saved my life basically when I was having signs of a stroke.  We were already married.  I never have forgotten that of course. 

I don't like the whole idea of assuming that each person is going to have some sort of a ha moment about another person and -marriage -which is huge! or love at first sight -based on some specific act even if others would swoon over it. 

I knew of men who called manicure places and paid in advance for a woman they'd just met, another who called a luxury hotel chain and begged for the name of their florist to impress a woman by sending it to her office before a third date (yes they are married now)-both of those gestures actually would have been too much for me actually) and another who threw his girlfriend a surprise 30th bday party at a fancy hotel for brunch with a dozen or more of her closest friends (yes he did this for me -no we didn't get married then but we are married now!). 

At the time of the surprise party one of my friends was sure he'd propose right then and I'd accept. I wasn't so sure (no he didn't propose until 10 months later).

I mean don't you have an easy enough time ignoring social media and ads about all the shoulds about home ownership, vacations, weight loss miracle drugs, botox, etc? Same deal IMO.

[mylolita]

On 7/15/2024 at 12:19 PM, Batya33 said:

I meant you were upset about expectations about love at first sight but if you meant expectations from movies/ads/social media I mean that's very different from expectations from your parents especially placed on children- we all are subject to fantasy notions of relationships, marriage, love, sex. It's not going to stop and I think it's very rare for adults to take that to heart such that it has to stop - by contrast for sure if parents instill certain beliefs and expectations in  a young child that can have long lasting effects- positive or negative!  I mean my mom told me -later on though -never date a man who cancels just because it's raining lol.  And because she said it -I agree 😉

I don't see the relevance of your example -so you met a guy who was very kind and went the extra mile and you didn't see yourself marrying him.  Makes perfect sense.  You noted how kind he was, how he went all out and for you it didn't translate to -this is my person.  I mean many people thank goodness have gone the extra mile for me and I have done it many many times for others and it doesn't mean we want to marry each other even if it was in a dating context.

Many years ago when my future husband and I were dating I was on the phone and pacing all over looking for my hair scrunchie. All of a sudden my husband shows up and quietly hands me a scrunchie.  How the heck did he know I was pacing for that reason? But for sure that was huge confirmation as to how much he was my person.  He also saved my life basically when I was having signs of a stroke.  We were already married.  I never have forgotten that of course. 

I don't like the whole idea of assuming that each person is going to have some sort of a ha moment about another person and -marriage -which is huge! or love at first sight -based on some specific act even if others would swoon over it. 

I knew of men who called manicure places and paid in advance for a woman they'd just met, another who called a luxury hotel chain and begged for the name of their florist to impress a woman by sending it to her office before a third date (yes they are married now)-both of those gestures actually would have been too much for me actually) and another who threw his girlfriend a surprise 30th bday party at a fancy hotel for brunch with a dozen or more of her closest friends (yes he did this for me -no we didn't get married then but we are married now!). 

At the time of the surprise party one of my friends was sure he'd propose right then and I'd accept. I wasn't so sure (no he didn't propose until 10 months later).

I mean don't you have an easy enough time ignoring social media and ads about all the shoulds about home ownership, vacations, weight loss miracle drugs, botox, etc? Same deal IMO.

Morning Batya! 
 

I just read this thread after being busy for awhile and a point you made here stood out to me! 
 

About being able to dilute and dial out outside talk, pressure, and opinion! 
 

I hear a lot from this thread, other threads, and in life - women especially - make comments about pressure. Pressure to marry, pressure to look a certain way, do a certain thing, be in a relationship or have it move in a certain way? 
 

I must be living under a rock because I’ve never felt this external pressure, either from the media, friends or through going about daily life. 
 

It was quiet, I think for me personally, a bold and strange move to remain a complete virgin before I met the right one for me. I wasn’t even going to kiss anyone unless I was near certain. I remember a few girls knowing this in school and making comments like you could imagine but honestly? I didn’t care. There was pressure to have a boyfriend, do things with them I’m sure but I didn’t feel it, I was sticking to my own convictions and going to do what I thought best for me (as best as a 14-18 year old can think and do, anyway!)

 

You’re going to get it from all angles if you absorb too many expectations. From school life to media to friends and family - you’re just going to end up feeling pressed against your wishes? 
 

We all only have one life to live and very limited time. You have to walk your own path with your own principles and be authentic to yourself. It can be easy to let others chatter and opinions away you but you have to hold strong in your private morals! 
 

I will say I feel attraction to people on a regular basis. I find this is a big misconception single folk have about long term, married couples. There’s a surfer guy who stares at me on the school run. He has two children and man, he’s some hot stuff right there! Is that love at first sight because I can appreciate he’s handsome? Definitely not; and not for me. I also find some women amazingly attractive, I’m technically bisexual. Some women flirt with me. It also doesn’t equate to love. I also know what lust feels like for me and it’s so dramatically different to the pure and impactful, knock me off my feet feeling I felt with my husband.

 

I have never had that instant intense love feeling again for anyone since him. Everyone’s emotions will also process differently. Some people feel more intensely than others, some people categorise things differently. 
 

I come across many beautiful people with great personalities all day long and the music has never played for them 🤣

 

I believe what me and my husband experienced and, so strange that we both had the same feelings and experience despite being a man and a woman - it seemed to defy logic and gender. I think people sometimes try to make it smutty, confuse feelings of intense love and connection with lust - but for me personally, it’s a dimension away on another planet! 
 

I also agree with you Batya that once you may have that great connection, rushing into a marriage is probably not going to work out. It could but, better to then really build on that connection and get to know your partner.

 

The connection was extremely fast with me and my husband but our timeline of doing things was very slow. Apart from moving in, we did that very fast. Because we were just together all the time anyway from the start and wouldn’t be parted. But marriage and buying a house and children came six years to a decade or more later. 

Simply put, and this isn’t aimed at you, I’m thinking out loud! Just because you haven’t experienced an emotion yet, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. 
 

Unrealistic things are often attainable, which is a hard fact to swallow if you feel “less than” for whatever reason. I have heard it said about bodies. Those bodies do exist in real life. The majority of people don’t look like swim wear models but, can’t we appreciate and be happy for those that have worked and have the genetics to attain that? I have heard it even said of motherhood. Women saying there is too much pressure to be the “perfect mother”. If you are mature, you know already that doesn’t exist. But that great and fantastic mothers do exist! And myself especially aspires towards that happily!
 

I have also heard similar sentiments of expectation and pressure said of porn. “Real sex is never like that!” Well, I’m also sorry to burst peoples bubbles but, it can be and more! Men and women can orgasm together, you can get “movie sex” and also the woman can orgasm nearly every time too. This is something worked on when the connection is amazing and trust is there. 
 

This feeling is real and alive. It’s rare and special. It’s launched a thousand paintings, poems, love stories and films, on and on. It’s even launched war ships - Helen of Troy! Marc Antony and Cleopatra!! The list goes on. These weren’t just “attractions”.

 

Love is exceptionally powerful and special.

 

To experience intense and pure emotion like that is completely attainable and real - but your spirit and mind needs to be ready and open for it. You need to be in the right place within yourself and then at the right time to meet that match. Seems impossible, but very much doeable and I am a happy testament to that! 
 

I don’t agree anyone should feel they need to do anything in a way that doesn’t feel natural to them.

 

My main mantra has always been - be yourself. What will be will be, what will come will come. Everyone needs to work out their own journey and emotions.

 

I like your love story Batya and I find it very inspiring amongst others! 
 

x
 

 

[DarkCh0c0]

1 hour ago, mylolita said:

Because we were just together all the time anyway from the start and wouldn’t be parted. But marriage and buying a house and children came six years to a decade or more later. 

Oh I don't know why I was under the impression that you had kids quickly. Why did you guys wait? Was it lovely to have some time for yourselves before starting a family?

1 hour ago, mylolita said:

I hear a lot from this thread, other threads, and in life - women especially - make comments about pressure. Pressure to marry, pressure to look a certain way, do a certain thing, be in a relationship or have it move in a certain way? 
 

I must be living under a rock because I’ve never felt this external pressure, either from the media, friends or through going about daily life. 

I think this is very personality dependent. Some people will see hot model images and feel bad about themselves while other people feel inspired or just plain indifferent. Likewise if you have family members or school friends who keep talking about those topics.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, mylolita said:

Morning Batya! 
 

I just read this thread after being busy for awhile and a point you made here stood out to me! 
 

About being able to dilute and dial out outside talk, pressure, and opinion! 
 

I hear a lot from this thread, other threads, and in life - women especially - make comments about pressure. Pressure to marry, pressure to look a certain way, do a certain thing, be in a relationship or have it move in a certain way? 
 

I must be living under a rock because I’ve never felt this external pressure, either from the media, friends or through going about daily life. 
 

It was quiet, I think for me personally, a bold and strange move to remain a complete virgin before I met the right one for me. I wasn’t even going to kiss anyone unless I was near certain. I remember a few girls knowing this in school and making comments like you could imagine but honestly? I didn’t care. There was pressure to have a boyfriend, do things with them I’m sure but I didn’t feel it, I was sticking to my own convictions and going to do what I thought best for me (as best as a 14-18 year old can think and do, anyway!)

 

You’re going to get it from all angles if you absorb too many expectations. From school life to media to friends and family - you’re just going to end up feeling pressed against your wishes? 
 

We all only have one life to live and very limited time. You have to walk your own path with your own principles and be authentic to yourself. It can be easy to let others chatter and opinions away you but you have to hold strong in your private morals! 
 

I will say I feel attraction to people on a regular basis. I find this is a big misconception single folk have about long term, married couples. There’s a surfer guy who stares at me on the school run. He has two children and man, he’s some hot stuff right there! Is that love at first sight because I can appreciate he’s handsome? Definitely not; and not for me. I also find some women amazingly attractive, I’m technically bisexual. Some women flirt with me. It also doesn’t equate to love. I also know what lust feels like for me and it’s so dramatically different to the pure and impactful, knock me off my feet feeling I felt with my husband.

 

I have never had that instant intense love feeling again for anyone since him. Everyone’s emotions will also process differently. Some people feel more intensely than others, some people categorise things differently. 
 

I come across many beautiful people with great personalities all day long and the music has never played for them 🤣

 

I believe what me and my husband experienced and, so strange that we both had the same feelings and experience despite being a man and a woman - it seemed to defy logic and gender. I think people sometimes try to make it smutty, confuse feelings of intense love and connection with lust - but for me personally, it’s a dimension away on another planet! 
 

I also agree with you Batya that once you may have that great connection, rushing into a marriage is probably not going to work out. It could but, better to then really build on that connection and get to know your partner.

 

The connection was extremely fast with me and my husband but our timeline of doing things was very slow. Apart from moving in, we did that very fast. Because we were just together all the time anyway from the start and wouldn’t be parted. But marriage and buying a house and children came six years to a decade or more later. 

Simply put, and this isn’t aimed at you, I’m thinking out loud! Just because you haven’t experienced an emotion yet, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. 
 

Unrealistic things are often attainable, which is a hard fact to swallow if you feel “less than” for whatever reason. I have heard it said about bodies. Those bodies do exist in real life. The majority of people don’t look like swim wear models but, can’t we appreciate and be happy for those that have worked and have the genetics to attain that? I have heard it even said of motherhood. Women saying there is too much pressure to be the “perfect mother”. If you are mature, you know already that doesn’t exist. But that great and fantastic mothers do exist! And myself especially aspires towards that happily!
 

I have also heard similar sentiments of expectation and pressure said of porn. “Real sex is never like that!” Well, I’m also sorry to burst peoples bubbles but, it can be and more! Men and women can orgasm together, you can get “movie sex” and also the woman can orgasm nearly every time too. This is something worked on when the connection is amazing and trust is there. 
 

This feeling is real and alive. It’s rare and special. It’s launched a thousand paintings, poems, love stories and films, on and on. It’s even launched war ships - Helen of Troy! Marc Antony and Cleopatra!! The list goes on. These weren’t just “attractions”.

 

Love is exceptionally powerful and special.

 

To experience intense and pure emotion like that is completely attainable and real - but your spirit and mind needs to be ready and open for it. You need to be in the right place within yourself and then at the right time to meet that match. Seems impossible, but very much doeable and I am a happy testament to that! 
 

I don’t agree anyone should feel they need to do anything in a way that doesn’t feel natural to them.

 

My main mantra has always been - be yourself. What will be will be, what will come will come. Everyone needs to work out their own journey and emotions.

 

I like your love story Batya and I find it very inspiring amongst others! 
 

x
 

 

Thank you!!!! I do believe people can have feelings of love at first sight.  Sometimes those feelings are based on the real person inside and out, sometimes not, sometimes a mish mash.  Feelings aren't facts.  Whether the two people then date and/or marry and/or are together in a committed way is anyone's guess.  

I felt pressure from friends and family to not let my bio clock run out, find the right person to marry, etc. If I allowed it now -and I do not! - there is "pressure" for moms to live in the burbs/get their kids involved in team sports, get them prepped to be able to apply to top colleges, to have more than one child, to have professional photos of said kids and to have a birthing plan down to the nitty gritty. 

And to circle back to this theme of this thread, to be all in with therapy as needed, and to be ready to leave and co-parent. I do not mean at all that there is pressure to divorce or separate -I mean that -this is my personal perspective -while there is of course in media emphasis on romance/love at first sight and insta-relationships and insta-connections there is also emphasis especially for a woman to walk away if her "needs" aren't being met but the definition of needs seems kinda broad to me - think about the whole trend of "self care" for women -especially moms - so if your husband isn't pulling his share of the child care (even if he works full time and mom does not or does not work outside the home) and doesn't communicate effectively etc this is grounds for therapy and perhaps separation. 

I admit -maybe I'm interpreting it at an exaggerated way it should not be -I apologize -but I just see more about throwing in the towel (after marriage counseling most often) in my parenting FB groups and in general on my feed -with women ranging from ages 30s and up.  I read this entirely as an outsider-I absorb it as an outsider -I am not searching for marriage counseling or for help with my marriage -I think in all marriages love at first sight or umpteenth sight doesn't carry the day - you need more, much more! Especially if you're also caring for children or aging parents, etc. 

As an outsider -I'm seeing too much about needs which are really wants and too much emphasis on therapy as the be all end all and a sort of one size fits all self care thing - I mean sure there is lip service to "find what self care works for  you" but very often it's the cliche of manicure/girls night out/girls weekend/spa day and all of this where the man is told in no uncertain terms "I need self care so next Saturday clear your schedule so you can be with the little munchkins. See ya".  There is a place for that sometimes for sure - I get it.  I'm talking about an emphasis, a shift in focus I didn't notice when my friends started getting married in the late 80s/early 90s.

I think too much emphasis on love at first sight can sometimes warp expectations of what real life is like in a marital home with kids especially so I am a fan of being mindful of that -head and heart.

[mylolita]

3 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

Oh I don't know why I was under the impression that you had kids quickly. Why did you guys wait? Was it lovely to have some time for yourselves before starting a family?

I think this is very personality dependent. Some people will see hot model images and feel bad about themselves while other people feel inspired or just plain indifferent. Likewise if you have family members or school friends who keep talking about those topics.

Hey Dark! 
 

We wanted to buy a house before starting a family, and the house we eventually bought when I was 25 needed everything doing to it - including ground work! It was a vast building site for about 3 years and it took 6 to become fully finished! It was a bit of everything. In hindsight, I would have had children earlier, even though I was not exactly old (became pregnant fast at 27 then had my 3 near back to back). There really never is a “perfect time!” 
 

I had quite a long engagement as well of 3 years! (I got engaged when I was 21). 
 

And you are so right! It depends how easily influenced you are, and how much people’s opinions and expectations weigh on you. 
 

What has helped me personally regarding women’s issues of body type and all that has been reading David Kibble’s book ‘Metamorphosis’ which emphasises skeletal structure and defines women’s figures in essences and how their different skeletons hold frame, flesh, sharpness and softness. One of his categories is “theatrical romantic” which is what I think I fall under. The system isn’t weight related, as your skeletal frame never changes! Sorry to go off topic, but if you want to embrace your natural body, simply “how you are” it’s a fantastic fresh look on things, even though it was published in the 80s!

 

The art of doing your own thing and not caring about other peoples opinion or expectations is an invaluable thing to try to master and saves a lot of pressure and grief! It’s something that has come more than ever to me in my late 20s and early 30s. We all have those days, but I think with age sometimes comes an easy flow and acceptance, a type of confidence in yourself. This goes for all things, not just perceived female societal expectations but life decisions. You want to make them for you and the ones you love, not for what you think you should be doing.

 

@Batya33 I loved your sharing there and yes, there is a tonne of societal expectations on motherhood and child raising but, do we give two hoots? I think not 🥲

 

I like your head and heart analogy. I have always been more heart I feel and instinct driven, it’s just the way I’m built. I admire logic, but it doesn’t find me too much at home 🤣

 

Romance ain’t dead, and is at least alive and well and full movie vibe’in, launch the ships, die for you and start the war style in our household 🥹🥹🥹

 

x

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, mylolita said:

I loved your sharing there and yes, there is a tonne of societal expectations on motherhood and child raising but, do we give two hoots? I think not 🥲

 

I like your head and heart analogy. I have always been more heart I feel and instinct driven, it’s just the way I’m built. I admire logic, but it doesn’t find me too much at home 🤣

 

Romance ain’t dead, and is at least alive and well and full movie vibe’in, launch the ships, die for you and start the war style in our household 🥹🥹🥹

For me it's about head and heart combo and not telling yourself not to feel something -rather acknowledging even when it is hard that we choose the reaction to our feelings.  It's also not just logic.  It's all the head stuff, all the choices we make in reaction to our feelings.  It's when I wait 24 hours if at all possible to respond to an email that bothers me or I wait to address an issue with my husband that can wait -and if I wait often I've internally resolved it and/or I can communicate with him in a much calmer way.  It's not logic -or not all "logic" - it's simply common sense/pick your battles/I know in 24 hours the world will look different.  

For me it doesn't detract at all from romance and can enhance romance.  I also model for our son since obviously teenagers act impulsively as he reminds me often lol.