How to handle this - two guys

[yogacat]

4 hours ago, kim42 said:

Thanks yoga, I'd like to get more serious with LD guy because we get along so well but I need to see how things go during this visit and how he feels about the distance. 

As for work guy, that's just sex but after reading all these posts, I will keep an eye on how I feel about this situation going forward, and if I start feel something else, I'll remove myself from this. I'm aware of the risk of 'bonding' with someone you have casual sex with.

And that's all you can do, really.

Sex with anyone is an inherent risk.

For me, it took a good year of talking to the individual before I felt comfortable enough to engage in anything physical with him. I was single for a year prior, not talking to or dating anyone else, so it worked at the time for what I needed...

Others choose NOT to engage in physical intimacy at all unless coupled up, which is where I kind of am in my life right now. 

It's just a matter of figuring out what works for you and your wants (and needs) and matching it up with the wants and needs of the individual you may be attracted to. It's how (most of us) continue to test the waters until we find the right component(s) that fit to make it work.

It's not easy to juggle feelings and attraction, and it sounds like you have a good system in place for dealing with it!

I do want you to continue to consider (if it's not too much to ask....) the preference you have to sleep with someone when you also have someone else that you like and are in the process of building something more substantial with.

Sure, it's just a visit by LD man, but again, you seem to like him and are somewhat hopeful that things could turn into something a little more to/hopefully sooner than later...and that's okay.

For the time being, work guy meets a physical need that you have and possibly no expectations (or realistic expectations about physical vs emotional attachment).

I really want to know how things go after the visit with LD man and you've both a chance to be in person with each other. 🙂

[Batya33]

15 hours ago, kim42 said:

Thanks guys for your thoughts and concern, I know fwb situations come with their risks. I think I should be okay if I hook up with him again (once) but I agree it might be different if we continue to do this regularly.

I'll keep this in mind and see how things go with LD guy.

But he's not even a friend - and the particular risk here is because of your longstanding interest in LD and your plan - this is a specific risk (including for LD's health since you'd be having sex with him right after your coworker.)

[Batya33]

13 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

How though?  Can you share?  I have heard others say same but how can one control their emotions like that?  I cannot.  I can have my feet on the ground about it not going anywhere and control my expectations so I don't get "too" hurt.

I never controlled my emotions just the reactions. That is how I never expected a man to want to date me unless he asked me out on date he planned in advance (or when I asked, agreed enthusiastically -but asking men out back then wasn't effective to find what I was looking for) - and then if he did ask me out I expected him to show up.  I didn't expect another date (or a first date after a first meet). I didn't expect any exclusivity until we had the talk.  I am and was a total romantic. 

Both are true - I don't  think reacting to strong emotions by pining/yearning/eating lots of ice cream for weeks means the person has stronger emotions or is more of a romantic.  Maybe that person is or maybe that person is making a choice to not date in reaction because it's safer than getting hurt. 

  I knew already casual sex was too much of a risk emotionally (and physically) for me so I didn't do it -I didn't want to try to control my reactions to that situation so I didn't do it -I didn't need to learn -I knew myself and that it would be too risky. 

I felt it all -the excitement, the chemistry -and I had many ways/ "tools" to keep moving along and meeting new people and not letting those emotions get in the way of my goal of marriage and family.  I absolutely had the gutted experiences too -it happens - for sure- first time I was 14 years old.  We had  the same social group in high school, then parted ways but ended up working together 15 years later lol (he was already married, I was totally fine by then LOL).

I would not be married today if I'd chosen to have casual sex -knowing me it would have been too tempting to get jaded/bitter, feel 'used"  - and I wouldn't be if I'd taken long breaks in dating regularly because of choosing to react to strong emotions/hopes/expectations. Most of my women friends ended up with the downsides of casual sex -typically emotional downsides sometimes physical sometimes both.  Some did not -some had great enjoyment in having sex with a variety of different men, having adventures attached to those sexual experiences, once in awhile the casual fling or one night stand then changed to dating and marriage.  

And no I don't think the risks of sex are the same at all in every situation.  There's also an inherent risk in kissing.  For me personally the risks of casual sex were significantly greater than when I had sex in the context of a committed relationship with strong potential for marriage (with one exception -the committed boyfriend who most likely would never marry me -big mistake on my part to have sex with him).  I was not a person who was likely to have an abortion, I was sexually active during many years when HIV was a much bigger risk than today, I didn't have many sex partners. 

Out of all of them every single one -except one and I regret taking that awful risk!! - knew that if I got pregnant we'd have the baby and get married sooner most likely.  And they were fine with it.  Yes we used protection except when I was actively trying which was only with my now husband.  I mean accidents and I was 100% reliably on the pill, we often used backup plus if I missed one day or something like that I was always 100% transparent about the increased risks.  

I think overall casual sex and ONS are much risker physically, often riskier emotionally for both people, and riskier for sexual assault/rape/ lack of consent etc when the people don't know each other well or are strangers.  

[kim42]

8 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

But he's not even a friend - and the particular risk here is because of your longstanding interest in LD and your plan - this is a specific risk (including for LD's health since you'd be having sex with him right after your coworker.)

Batya, I use the word 'fwb' because I can't think of any other word and I don't want to use word 'f*** buddy'.

I know we're not friends and I don't think it really matters how I refer to him.

I don't want to go into details about my sex life here, I've already shared more than I intended to but since I haven't had sex with LD guy yet, and since we haven't seen each other for a long time, I don't know if we're going to have sex for sure. 

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, JoyfulCompany said:

I do and mentioned it in my post. Condoms are a must but still not enough to be sure. Heck, even a kiss can give you hsv, epstein barr (ebv) and those viruses may stay in your body forever. Some high-risk hpv types may develop into cancer, hsv may be problematic if fresh before or during pregnancy, there are some links between ebv and neurodegenerative diseases... See, we're not the cleanest species. People can transmit stuff even without a flare up. And, as you know, there's no test for hpv for men.

However, there needs to be some balance between being scared for your health and living life. You can get those even if you have one partner. Also, those viruses can stay latent for years. So, there's always always always a risk if you're sexually active. I'm all for decreasing this risk but when I was younger, I admit I didn't give it that much thought either. If I knew all these stuff, I would've made different decisions in some cases. But, hey, life experiences have important value, too. So, again - I mostly recommend keeping some balance.

I would (now) be nervous with overlapping without me and the partners being at least somewhat tested. And it's true that for some STIs you need to give it some time before testing. So, I'm also a fossils. 🙂

I'm a fossil.  We always tested.  We always waited a few months for the HIV  testing because of the whole abstinence before testing  requirement back then.  I also didn't want to risk fertility/ability to have a baby safely, etc.  Because I didn't have casual sex and waited I was able to decrease the risks of STIs and especially of HIV.  Also I always tested too even if I'd been abstinent a longtime -once even doing the self test at home - because I felt it was the fair thing to do if my boyfriend was going to be tested. 

[Batya33]

11 minutes ago, kim42 said:

Batya, I use the word 'fwb' because I can't think of any other word and I don't want to use word 'f*** buddy'.

I know we're not friends and I don't think it really matters how I refer to him.

I don't want to go into details about my sex life here, I've already shared more than I intended to but since I haven't had sex with LD guy yet, and since we haven't seen each other for a long time, I don't know if we're going to have sex for sure. 

He's a sex partner right? He's not a buddy either and since you're so clear on your comfort why the skirting around it? I think it does matter because you're making a thing out of compartmentalizing the categories and why you're comfortable with sex as a filler but then your LD guy is such a "gentleman" because he's not going to come here and then want to have a similar sex partner arrangement.  I'm a fossil so I have a different reaction to your not knowing whether you're going to have sex with LD guy while knowing that you plan to have sex with your co-worker shortly before you see LD guy.  Which LD guy won't know about -which would be totally fine other than unless he knows to ask he'll be in the dark about the increased risks of you giving him an STI by accident -as you said coworker apparently likes to play the field.

[Batya33]

12 hours ago, yogacat said:

No I don't think you're a fossil.

I think when you start to overlap it gets more cumbersome to keep track of all the partners and cover who has and STD and who does not. Therefore overlapping *can* easily increase risk for people. It's easier when every partner is the one and only current in your life.

It's not just easier it's safer for everyone.  And safer when all involved know that it's not monogamous.  And then can choose what to do from there. I think it's fine for people to have multiple partners when there is disclosure so the adults can choose what to do.

  I was dating more than one person when I reconnected with my now husband.  He'd recently ended a serious relationship while my last serious relationship involving sex had been over for 6 months or so.  I had no idea when he stopped being sexual but it didn't matter.  I didn't need to ask.  He didn't ask me either (but likely assumed I'd been abstinent since my last serious relationship because he and I knew each other very well and that neither of us had casual sex). He and his person broke up 3-4 months prior to us becoming intimate again.  Plus we both tested.  And used protection.  When we stopped using protection to try to conceive we were not married yet and we had 100% trust in each other.  Obviously even married people can cheat etc so there's always a "risk" with any person but it's about living life and balancing the risks.  I never ever even considered while we were trying to conceive -which was loads of fun, really!! - that there was any risk he was not just with me.  In the "but anything's possible" world I mean sure -the sky could fall too, -I'm not into equating all such risks as the same.  They are not.

 

[kim42]

58 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

He's a sex partner right? He's not a buddy either and since you're so clear on your comfort why the skirting around it? I think it does matter because you're making a thing out of compartmentalizing the categories and why you're comfortable with sex as a filler but then your LD guy is such a "gentleman" because he's not going to come here and then want to have a similar sex partner arrangement.  I'm a fossil so I have a different reaction to your not knowing whether you're going to have sex with LD guy while knowing that you plan to have sex with your co-worker shortly before you see LD guy.  Which LD guy won't know about -which would be totally fine other than unless he knows to ask he'll be in the dark about the increased risks of you giving him an STI by accident -as you said coworker apparently likes to play the field.

Batya, it doesn't really matter for me how I call him, if you want to refer to him as 'sex partner', you can do so.

Maybe I'll have sex with LD guy, maybe not. There is a chance it might happen but since we haven't seen each other in months, I want it to happen naturally and when we both feel comfortable.

 

[Andrina]

Time really does zoom by. We're already halfway through this year. It takes a lot of effort and time to find a lifetime partner, which I believe is your goal. I see f buddies as big time wasters where that time communicating with them and being with them could be better spent researching activities where singles your age are likely to be present, and then attending those activities. 

IMO, by not delaying gratification now will result in it taking longer to achieve your ultimate goal.

Also, you never know if your co-worker is a loose cannon. If LD guy happened to move your way and FB guy saw you two at a restaurant, he could be looney and say something to sabotage your romance, even if he didn't want you as a gf. He could also be talking about your trysts to his co-workers and you'll be a big topic in work gossip. Where I work, women make up only 1/5 of our work force, so I hear how certain of these men talk. Believe me, you don't want to be what's coming out of their mouths.

[kim42]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

 

I do want you to continue to consider (if it's not too much to ask....) the preference you have to sleep with someone when you also have someone else that you like and are in the process of building something more substantial with.

Thanks yoga for your thoughtful comments!

I think I know why I'm doing this - as you mentioned my 'preference' - I just don't feel comfortable sharing it here for now.

But I will update you guys aftet the visit!!

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

@kim42jmo but perhaps it's best to leave this thread for awhile and simply see how everything plays out with both?   And return with an update?

I think you're doing great, seem to have your s*** together, and I agree with you about the use if the term "fwb."  It's a figure of speech used to describe two people who have casual sex without exclusivity and commitment. Or even dating or the intention to do so.

It's unnecessary to dissect it and analyze it or anything else at this point, you've done a great job explaining your feelings and mindset, thank you!

Again simply play it out and be sure to update!

JMO

Enjoy!! 😍

 

 

[yogacat]

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

15 hours ago, yogacat said:

No I don't think you're a fossil.

I think when you start to overlap it gets more cumbersome to keep track of all the partners and cover who has and STD and who does not. Therefore overlapping *can* easily increase risk for people. It's easier when every partner is the one and only current in your life.

It's not just easier it's safer for everyone.  And safer when all involved know that it's not monogamous.  And then can choose what to do from there. I think it's fine for people to have multiple partners when there is disclosure so the adults can choose what to do.

  I was dating more than one person when I reconnected with my now husband.  He'd recently ended a serious relationship while my last serious relationship involving sex had been over for 6 months or so.  I had no idea when he stopped being sexual but it didn't matter.  I didn't need to ask.  He didn't ask me either (but likely assumed I'd been abstinent since my last serious relationship because he and I knew each other very well and that neither of us had casual sex). He and his person broke up 3-4 months prior to us becoming intimate again.  Plus we both tested.  And used protection.  When we stopped using protection to try to conceive we were not married yet and we had 100% trust in each other.  Obviously even married people can cheat etc so there's always a "risk" with any person but it's about living life and balancing the risks.  I never ever even considered while we were trying to conceive -which was loads of fun, really!! - that there was any risk he was not just with me.  In the "but anything's possible" world I mean sure -the sky could fall too, -I'm not into equating all such risks as the same.  They are not.

I don't quite fancy the concept of multiple partners simultaneously.

Having multiple sexual partners at the same time increases the risk of spreading STDs, as it becomes harder to keep track of who has been tested and who has not.

It is also unfair to the people involved, as they may not know that someone that they are involved with is also seeing someone else. So, I don't really ascribe into the whole concept of multi-dating or overlap. 

There are SO many risks with having multi partners at the same time, I can't think of them all.  

It's why the idea just doesn't appeal to me.  

I am not a risk taker by nature but honestly I'm not a prude either. My feeling is if they came to me and said "Oh btw I have sex with multiple people," I'd say "well until the day comes when you don't feel the need to have multiple partners then it goes without saying we don't have sex, and if you don't feel the need, you know how to reach me and I have faith you will see where things lead," and meanwhile?  Yes, that person is free to do as they wish as am I.

Sure I can get stomach flu even if no one else in the house got it.  But if there's an outbreak of some disease going around and I know or suspect you're exposed I don't sit here thinking it's no big deal or forget about considering that you're knowingly exposed because the current multiple partner practice means others are likely exposed too and this time I'm the one vulnerable to the exposure concern.  

However, as long as everyone involved is completely aware and consensual, then it is up to them to choose what is best for their relationship. Honesty and communication is key, and with that it can work for some people.

Sadly, it doesn't always work out that way and people end up getting hurt or being misled.

Not even just when you're having sex but dating multiple people at the same time I don't quite get the concept...

If I really like you and we're going out, do I have time to be considering Billy and Jim too at the same time? I get making a decision if someone's girlfriend/boyfriend material or not doesn't happen in a couple dates.

I know what I like, I can make that decision. 🙂  

I guess I'm more old fashioned like that.  

I wouldn't want to date a guy who makes a habit of dating multiple women at the same time, much less sleeps with while dating and even absent exclusive commitment.

I think for @kim42 you're kind of stuck in that in-between zone and in limbo if you should invest in one guy. LDR guy doesn't live near you so you know that no matter how great the "connection," he's not going to end up being a serious boyfriend any time soon.

So... why *not* play with Billy and Jim is how I'd think she views it.

I know that I'm suggesting she not do that but the part of me that is of the same generation as you can understand why you wouldn't have a clear dedication to one relationship. You're not exclusive with what's his face. You get to do what you want. 

I think that it's easy to say that people shouldn't do this or that, but at the end of the day @kim42you're an empowered confident woman and free to do as you wish.

I think you're fully aware of the risks involved.

[kim42]

2 hours ago, Andrina said:

Time really does zoom by. We're already halfway through this year. It takes a lot of effort and time to find a lifetime partner, which I believe is your goal. I see f buddies as big time wasters where that time communicating with them and being with them could be better spent researching activities where singles your age are likely to be present, and then attending those activities. 

IMO, by not delaying gratification now will result in it taking longer to achieve your ultimate goal.

Also, you never know if your co-worker is a loose cannon. If LD guy happened to move your way and FB guy saw you two at a restaurant, he could be looney and say something to sabotage your romance, even if he didn't want you as a gf. He could also be talking about your trysts to his co-workers and you'll be a big topic in work gossip. Where I work, women make up only 1/5 of our work force, so I hear how certain of these men talk. Believe me, you don't want to be what's coming out of their mouths.

I don't see having sex with work guy as a waste of time, for now I enjoy it. We agreed to keep it as secret so I don't think he would gossip about it.

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

16 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I don't see having sex with work guy as a waste of time, for now I enjoy it.

Totally agree.  Every experience we have both positive and negative is an opportunity to learn, grow, evolve.  Which from what I've read, you're doing! 

As such, nothing we do should be viewed as a "waste of time" I'm so tired of that rhetoric and I hear it often.  On line and in real.

Again, you've got a great attitude Kim!

I couldn't do what you're doing, but I'm not you!   We all do what feels right and best for us and learn from it. 🙂

 

 

[kim42]

2 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@kim42jmo but perhaps it's best to leave this thread for awhile and simply see how everything plays out with both?   And return with an update?

I think you're doing great, seem to have your s*** together, and I agree with you about the use if the term "fwb."  It's a figure of speech used to describe two people who have casual sex without exclusivity and commitment. Or even dating or the intention to do so.

It's unnecessary to dissect it and analyze it or anything else at this point, you've done a great job explaining your feelings and mindset, thank you!

Again simply play it out and be sure to update!

JMO

Enjoy!! 😍

 

 

Thanks raimbows, I don't mind discussing it further but it's true I think it doesn't make sense to overanalyze how I call the work guy or other minor details!

[tattoobunnie]

On 7/9/2024 at 2:42 PM, kim42 said:

It's good 3 hours altogether by train and local transport. It's something we should probably talk about once he's here and things go well. 

My LDR was 3 hours a part  by car.  After 10 months of traveling, we got engaged, he moved by me because of my work, and we got married.  

I would lose the hookup - he is a dime a dozen -  there's no future and a waste of time.  There are other things you can do to have fun - skydiving, hiking, bowling, clubbing, go karts, heck, even shopping.

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

My LDR was 3 hours a part  by car.  After 10 months of traveling, we got engaged, he moved by me because of my work, and we got married.  

I would lose the hookup - he is a dime a dozen -  there's no future and a waste of time.  There are other things you can do to have fun - skydiving, hiking, bowling, clubbing, go karts, heck, even shopping.

I just posted in my FB mom group that I have fun browsing the brand new books at my local public library! Yup I own being a geek and yup I don't always honor a commitment to finish a book that I'm just not that into..... I even ..... multi-read

[kim42]

9 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

My LDR was 3 hours a part  by car.  After 10 months of traveling, we got engaged, he moved by me because of my work, and we got married.  

I would lose the hookup - he is a dime a dozen -  there's no future and a waste of time.  There are other things you can do to have fun - skydiving, hiking, bowling, clubbing, go karts, heck, even shopping.

Sadly neither of us has a car so we have to rely on trains or planes.

Again, I don't consider hooking up with the work guy as a waste of time. For now I like it, and even if there's no future, I want to enjoy it while it lasts.

[kim42]

2 hours ago, yogacat said:

 

I think for @kim42 you're kind of stuck in that in-between zone and in limbo if you should invest in one guy. LDR guy doesn't live near you so you know that no matter how great the "connection," he's not going to end up being a serious boyfriend any time soon.

So... why *not* play with Billy and Jim is how I'd think she views it.

I know that I'm suggesting she not do that but the part of me that is of the same generation as you can understand why you wouldn't have a clear dedication to one relationship. You're not exclusive with what's his face. You get to do what you want. 

I think that it's easy to say that people shouldn't do this or that, but at the end of the day @kim42you're an empowered confident woman and free to do as you wish.

I think you're fully aware of the risks involved.

Yes, you're right, I've been stuck in the in-between zone with LD guy for a while now. 

I know he's looking for something serious and we have a great connection but I need to see how he feels about the distance. He's never been to my city/country so there's still sadly many uncertain things. 

You understand my situation very well, and yes, I'm aware of all the risks.

I think I'll know more after the visit and I'll be able to sort out my feelings and decide what to do next.

[LootieTootie]

I might be in the unpopular end of this discussion, but I think its fine if OP wants to keep having sex with someone not LD guy until LD guy tells OP exactly what he wants. 

I just say be careful with "player-type" guys... they tend to have a lot of cooties. 

[kim42]

On 7/12/2024 at 3:28 AM, LootieTootie said:

I might be in the unpopular end of this discussion, but I think its fine if OP wants to keep having sex with someone not LD guy until LD guy tells OP exactly what he wants. 

I just say be careful with "player-type" guys... they tend to have a lot of cooties. 

Thank you, I'll keep you guys posted about the visit!

[kim42]

Ok guys, so LD guy is coming to visit this week and we've been texting but honestly I'm not sure how he feels about this, it seems that he's not excited to see me. So I guess I'll know more when he comes and we spend some time together, but right now it doesn't look very promising, so I think it's good I can focus my attention sonewhere else too.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, kim42 said:

Ok guys, so LD guy is coming to visit this week and we've been texting but honestly I'm not sure how he feels about this, it seems that he's not excited to see me. So I guess I'll know more when he comes and we spend some time together, but right now it doesn't look very promising, so I think it's good I can focus my attention sonewhere else too.

I'd cut a little slack and wait and see- maybe he was tired when texting etc.  If the co-worker proves a pleasant distraction sure that helps overall if you're disappointed.  If co-worker sends  you a blase perfunctory text as far as meeting up for your next meet up would you analyze it in this way meaning it means he's not excited to see me? Or maybe your LD in the last few days met someone local so he's a bit distracted in his focus.

[kim42]

I know it probably doesn't make sense to overanalyze it at this point and I'll just see what happens when he's here but last weekend I texted him that I was excited to see him this week and he didn't reply anything to that message (he replied to other messages I sent at the same time, and this was the last one so I doubt he didn't notice it).

I know it's just a message but honestly I thought he would reply something like 'me too'. It's confusing because he's told me several times that he really looks forward to seeing me or this visit. Last time he told me this was last Wednesday, and he keeps texting me other things too but it just makes me question if he's into me since he ignored that message.

[Kwothe28]

45 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I know it's just a message but honestly I thought he would reply something like 'me too'. It's confusing because he's told me several times that he really looks forward to seeing me or this visit.

Do you perhaps expect more than he could give to you?

Meaning do you perhaps expect more serious commitment when he gives you no signs of that? I ask because, distance or no distance, think he would be inclined to say anything about the commitment in the meantime as well. Instead of waiting almost a year. If he didnt said anything more than "I am looking forward to see you", dont think he would do in person as well. I have no doubt he will be excited to see you in person when it comes to maybe hooking up again. Just dont think you maybe should expect anything more serious there.