Spinoff of YC's 'Standing Alone' Thread

[yogacat]

3 hours ago, Seraphim said:

No , it isn’t only now we have seen progress. There was a lot of progress long before now . I come from a long line of independent strong women well beyond their time period in progress, even my great grandmother who died in 1914 was well beyond her time running her own farm on her own and raising 3 grand daughters. 
 

But I do believe there is a push to negate men. I have seen it happen to my husband and other male members of my family . 

Women are still the underdog. Sorry, not going to agree with you there.

We still have a long way to go in terms of gender equality. Women still face discrimination, pay gaps, and societal expectations that limit their freedoms and opportunities. Progress has been made, but it is far from complete. And this progress has not been without backlash and pushback from those who feel threatened by it.

As for men being negated, I believe that everyone should be equal and valued regardless of their gender. However, there are certain privileges and advantages that men have traditionally held in society and as we strive for equality, some of those privileges may need to be challenged and redefined. That can be uncomfortable for some, but it is necessary for progress.

[mylolita]

5 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Women are still the underdog. Sorry, not going to agree with you there.

We still have a long way to go in terms of gender equality. Women still face discrimination, pay gaps, and societal expectations that limit their freedoms and opportunities. Progress has been made, but it is far from complete. And this progress has not been without backlash and pushback from those who feel threatened by it.

As for men being negated, I believe that everyone should be equal and valued regardless of their gender. However, there are certain privileges and advantages that men have traditionally held in society and as we strive for equality, some of those privileges may need to be challenged and redefined. That can be uncomfortable for some, but it is necessary for progress.

Male privilege:

 

Dying in the majority of world wars and any still to come.

Courts favouring the mother in child custody cases even if she is neglectful.

Working the majority of dangerous jobs including police force, fire brigade, construction workers, sewer workers, heavy goods drivers. 

Less paternity time across the board (women get longer)

First for the draft (in times of war) and on a sinking ship it’s “women and children first”

 

Women have total equality now and every opportunity to make all the pay they want. The pay gap happens because statistically there is an average taken for each gender, and women mainly stay home to have their babies then take maternity for the year. This causes a dip in their wages if you log it over the course of a year compared to a man. 
 

I’m sorry Yoga I just don’t see it at all. Have you been to any countries where women are genuinely oppressed? Like certain parts of Africa, or Iraq? 
 

I am also presuming if you are for total gender equality you are for the army being 50% female which would have to include women being drafted to serve time? There has been talk of this because of the war in Ukraine, and the depleting army numbers. 
 

My Great Grandfather served in both WW1 and WW2 as did my Grandfather and his three brothers died blown to pieces storming the beaches of Normandy for our freedoms, so western women now can sit online and complain we “have along way to go”

[yogacat]

2 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I’m sorry Yoga I just don’t see it at all. Have you been to any countries where women are genuinely oppressed? Like certain parts of Africa, or Iraq? 

Lol.

My father is from the middle east.😉😘

[mylolita]

Just now, yogacat said:

Lol.

My father is from the middle east.😉😘

Well you will know how horrifically they treat women there.

 

Try to walk around with your hair uncovered in the majority of those countries - Iraq, Iran - try being gay! It is not only illegal but technically punishable by death! If you are a woman and you are sexually assaulted, it is your fault! People are still stoned to death! 
 

Western women have the most freedom and complain the most. 

[yogacat]

1 minute ago, mylolita said:

Western women have the most freedom and complain the most. 

About?

[mylolita]

Jan Goodwin - ‘The Price Of Honour’ 

 

She lived for a decade in Iran as an investigative journalist. I so recommend the read as it brought me to tears and I’ve never been the same since. 
 

Once you have heard real oppression the western woman’s niggles become offensive. 

[mylolita]

1 minute ago, yogacat said:

About?

Not having equal rights! 
 

What isn’t equal? Ridiculous! There is no perfect pinnacle. Men and women are different and have different strengths by nature. How can they possibly be perfectly equal anyway? As animals we aren’t equal. But we can have equal rights under the law - which we do. In America, in the UK, and across most of Europe. 

[rainbowsandroses]

No I don't enjoy putting myself in dangerous situations but I've come to love the beauty of nature and all it has to offer.

As I said, such attacks are very rare and all I or anyone can do is be aware and prudent and educate ourselves before heading out.  

Heck I could get hit by a car tomorrow, anything can happen, I can't live my life not doing what I enjoy because I fear something bad will happen...

[yogacat]

1 minute ago, mylolita said:

Not having equal rights! 
 

What isn’t equal? Ridiculous! There is no perfect pinnacle. Men and women are different and have different strengths by nature. How can they possibly be perfectly equal anyway? As animals we aren’t equal. But we can have equal rights under the law - which we do. In America, in the UK, and across most of Europe. 

As of 2023, women made up less than 30% of the most prestigious positions in society, including the House of Representatives, the Senate, Fortune 500 CEOs, and governors across the country.

For you to consider that women aren't still the minority is an oversimplification of the issue.

If you think that women are no longer a minority group, you may want to take a closer look at the data.

[mylolita]

Just now, yogacat said:

As of 2023, women made up less than 30% of the most prestigious positions in society, including the House of Representatives, the Senate, Fortune 500 CEOs, and governors across the country.

For you to consider that women aren't still the minority is an oversimplification of the issue.

If you think that women are no longer a minority group, you may want to take a closer look at the data.

They don’t want to do it Yoga. They have every opportunity. 
 

Women can’t face up to the fact that other women still would generally, rather not take mega positions of power. They’d rather raise their babies for a few years, normally. Women generally gravitate towards jobs in the arts, law, medicine, administration, and care. It’s just a biological disposition. Why do we have to fight against our nature just to simply make up some numbers? Everything has to be exactly 50/50?

 

So what, one year we say oh it’s a woman’s turn to be president the man had it the previous 4? Then what about the Indian population! What about their turn? Or a homosexual as president? Or an atheist as president? Or a half French half African as president? We go on and on simply on someone’s genetics and gender.

 

We shouldn’t care if someone’s a man or a woman. What we should care about is this - are they good enough for the job? 
 

Their gender is irrelevant.

[mylolita]

5 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

No I don't enjoy putting myself in dangerous situations but I've come to love the beauty of nature and all it has to offer.

As I said, such attacks are very rare and all I or anyone can do is be aware and prudent and educate ourselves before heading out.  

Heck I could get hit by a car tomorrow, anything can happen, I can't live my life not doing what I enjoy because I fear something bad will happen...

You sound like you have researched it absolutely to a T rainbows! 
 

My gut instinct would be to take a gun if you are really going off the beaten track but your boyfriend sounds like he knows best and if you trust him - that’s all that matters! 
 

Rare event - you guys likely won’t be put to the bear stand off test 🐻 ✨🕺

 

x

[Seraphim]

My mom was a female CEO in the 1980’s. She gave jobs to thousands of women. Women have to reach out and take what they want .
 

In  1985 I walked into a recruiting office asked to join the military to go Armoured they laughed in my face . In 1989 the combat roles became open to women in Canada. I joined in 1992. 
 

Everything is open for us to take advantage of . 

[mylolita]

@yogacat

 

Nursing is dominated by women. So is professional childcare positions. So fast becoming is the female uptake to study medicine, in the UK, it’s a near even split for general practitioners to be a man or a woman. Women get paid more by miles in the modelling and fashion industries. Also in adult entertainment, men get paid a pittance in relation to the women in that industry. 
 

Not everything is equal. Men fall short in some industries too. Why aren’t you protesting for more male nurses and for male models to get paid equal to women? The pay gap between a top female model and a top male model is insanely vast. 
 

I don’t care actually, I say it’s a free market so people under capitalism name their own price. 
 

You seem to want some kind of state intervention, regulation or drive where people meet number criteria’s for all positions in all fields? I’m sorry. 

[rainbowsandroses]

40 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Huh?

Which thread was that? No clue which thread you're referring to where I actually said to forgive cheating wife. Are you sure that was me? I'm so confused now. 🤣

I think @Kwothe28may have been referring to @Gatguythread wherein you posted this:

>>Did you happen to still give attention to her when she was pregnant and after? Because then is the time most woman tend to feel even more insecure because of the physical changes etc. and the hormones going haywire. <<

Not sure how that could be interpreted as you telling him to forgive his wife's cheating but the written word can be ambiguous sometimes, and we all interpret in different ways, sometimes the wrong way. 

I've done it! 

[mylolita]

3 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

My mom was a female CEO in the 1980’s. She gave jobs to thousands of women. Women have to reach out and take what they want .
 

In  1985 I walked into a recruiting office asked to join the military to go Armoured they laughed in my face . In 1989 the combat roles became open to women in Canada. I joined in 1992. 
 

Everything is open for us to take advantage of . 

Exactly - equal opportunity but not equal outcome! 
 

My husband started his own business Seraphim, 26 years ago. I know you have ran your own business so you get this too. I have and had every opportunity to do the same! I didn’t. Is it because I’m oppressed, there isn’t equality? No. I didn’t want too, or, it’s not where I feel my talents lie. I chose to be a mother and absolutely happily! 
 

That makes me, according to the feminism model, a statistical failure because I didn’t pursue pure maths, physics, or an engineering career!

 

Women can be plumbers but they just aren’t going for it. Something about having your head down brown pipes and other peoples loo’s probably put them off, I suspect. It’s not because they aren’t allowed! 
 

x

[Seraphim]

Just now, mylolita said:

Exactly - equal opportunity but not equal outcome! 
 

My husband started his own business Seraphim, 26 years ago. I know you have ran your own business so you get this too. I have and had every opportunity to do the same! I didn’t. Is it because I’m oppressed, there isn’t equality? No. I didn’t want too, or, it’s not where I feel my talents lie. I chose to be a mother and absolutely happily! 
 

That makes me, according to the feminism model, a statistical failure because I didn’t pursue pure maths, physics, or an engineering career!

 

Women can be plumbers but they just aren’t going for it. Something about having your head down brown pipes and other peoples loo’s probably put them off, I suspect. It’s not because they aren’t allowed! 
 

x

Exactly we have equal opportunity but there will never be equality of outcome . If you forcing equality of outcome that is communism. 

[yogacat]

14 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I think @Kwothe28may have been referring to @Gatguythread wherein you posted this:

>>Did you happen to still give attention to her when she was pregnant and after? Because then is the time most woman tend to feel even more insecure because of the physical changes etc. and the hormones going haywire. <<

Not sure how that could be interpreted as you telling him to forgive his wife's cheating but the written word can be ambiguous sometimes, and we all interpret in different ways, sometimes the wrong way. 

I've done it! 

Not sure how I was inferring he should forgive his wife for cheating which she wasn't found to be the case but he was jealous of her co-worker and a male stripper so not sure why you're bringing that up.

[rainbowsandroses]

59 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Anyone getting reminded of The Sopranos bear scenes?! Or is it just me?! 
 

 

 

Lol, a bear in New Jersey?   By the way, she did the right thing!  It's also advised to make noise, banging pots and pans is one way and pretty standard!  

[mylolita]

10 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Exactly we have equal opportunity but there will never be equality of outcome . If you forcing equality of outcome that is communism. 

Darn tootin! 
 

Allow men and women to go towards their passions and unfortunately you will generally see a pattern. It’s just how it is. 
 

My husband grew up in really rough area of England. Often there would be domestic trouble. They had to stop doing this because, at the bars, there would be huge fights breaking out and the bar staff would call the police. Two tiny female cops would turn up, to a bar of 5 huge guys scrapping. So many times they had to call for back up, and who turned up to finish the job? Bunch of big 6’4’’ male coppers. Who should have been there in the first place to a violent bar brawl. 
 

Sometimes, it’s just not appropriate, and gender matters in those types of cases.
 

x

[mylolita]

1 minute ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Lol, a bear in New Jersey?   By the way, she did the right thing!  It's also advised to make noise, banging pots and pans is one way and pretty standard!  

It’s a TV show 🍿😆

 

Learnt a lot already just from watching the Sopranos! 🤣 The bear thing features in a good few episodes LOL! 
 

x

[yogacat]

28 minutes ago, mylolita said:

They don’t want to do it Yoga. They have every opportunity. 
 

Women can’t face up to the fact that other women still would generally, rather not take mega positions of power. They’d rather raise their babies for a few years, normally. Women generally gravitate towards jobs in the arts, law, medicine, administration, and care. It’s just a biological disposition. Why do we have to fight against our nature just to simply make up some numbers? Everything has to be exactly 50/50?

 

So what, one year we say oh it’s a woman’s turn to be president the man had it the previous 4? Then what about the Indian population! What about their turn? Or a homosexual as president? Or an atheist as president? Or a half French half African as president? We go on and on simply on someone’s genetics and gender.

 

We shouldn’t care if someone’s a man or a woman. What we should care about is this - are they good enough for the job? 
 

Their gender is irrelevant.

Nah, disagree.  You seem to make the assumption that women cannot do whatever you consider "this."

You appear to regard "doing" or "being" as a historically male prerogative.  (I could totally be wrong but with no evidence I'll just say that's the vibe I get.)  Notice in your second paragraph you disaggregate women who don't want positions of power from women who seek positions of power under "biological predisposition."  Everything is just fraught with screening and pigeonholing.

Lots of people generally gravitate towards jobs in the arts (~raw numbers wise), these jobs often get pushed into a voluntary position.  Lots of people gravitate towards law, it is joked how that is a big field right now and a bunch of people (not just women, also men) are "not doing it" because work work WORK and ugh.  

Medicine has a long history of non women in a rigged system.  Care is woefully unsupported.  So you are left with figures and careers propping up another person or supporting a legal team on a flat wage.

Tell me what is female-driven about that.

[rainbowsandroses]

10 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Not sure how I was inferring he should forgive his wife for cheating which she wasn't found to be but he was jealous of her co-worker and a male stripper so not sure why you're bringing that up.

You didn't that's what I just said!  I didn't interpret it that way. 

I was responding to your question to @Kwothe28asking which thread HE was referring to. As you stated you were confused.  

Apparently, the comment was misinterpreted and taken out of context by some or one, which happens sometimes on forums like this. 

That's all. 

[mylolita]

Just now, yogacat said:

Nah, disagree.  You seem to make the assumption that women cannot do whatever you consider "this".

You appear to regard "doing" or "being" as a historically male prerogative.  (I could totally be wrong but with no evidence I'll just say that's the vibe I get.)  Notice in your second paragraph you disaggregate women who don't want positions of power from women who seek positions of power under "biological predisposition".  Everything is just  fraught with screening and pigeonholing.

Lots of people generally gravitate towards jobs in the arts (~raw numbers wise), these jobs often get pushed into a voluntary position.  Lots of people gravitate towards law, it is joked how that is a big field right now and a bunch of people (not just women, also men) are "not doing it" because work work WORK and ugh.  

Medicine has a long history of non women in a rigged system.  Care is woefully unsupported.  So you are left with figures and careers propping up another person or supporting a legal team on a flat wage.

Tell me what is female-driven about that.

I don’t care about women having to match everything 50/50 everywhere. Are you going to police companies and governments when they hire down to the tiniest business, just to make up numbers? 
 

Women still want to have children - that takes them away from the workforce often for a few years, causing this phantom “pay gap” in the system everyone touts which is untrue.

 

Why do you need everything to be so perfectly equal anyway? Why don’t you need everything to be half black and half white? Why do you just stop at women for equality? What about Hispanics? How many Hispanic billionaires are there in America? What about native Americans? How many of them are in office? Why don’t you care about those minorities? 
 

Why do you just care about women and disregard the rest, and also the areas men are vastly unequal in as well? You’re not bothered about the pay gaps in male nursing, in the fashion industry? 
 

You disregard genuine horrific violent oppression in the Middle East, Africa - and want to say well there’s less women reading maths at Harvard in America over here?

 

They don’t want to read maths at Harvard Yoga. They have all the options and choice to go be an scientist or start a business. You could start your own business tomorrow. 
 

Judge Judy famously said, “I’m not a female judge. I’m just a Judge.” 
 

Why is gender in job placements so important to you? Why does it matter if someone is a woman or a man? Surely you just need whoever is best for the job? Common, logical sense.

[mylolita]

Next I’ll be saying well, I’m oppressed - how many companies hired redheads? How many red haired presidents have we had? 
 

Redheads like me suffered oppression during the Middle Ages! Witch trials, mass drownings! I deserve my time! 
 

Ridiculous. 
 

History, hundreds of years ago, was oppressive and bad and hard for all genders. We’re talking about equality now, not what people did 500 years ago, and we have equality now and every opportunity. Maybe if women stopped complaining about it and just did it, you could too be another successful statistic by starting up your own Fortune 500, or becoming female President, or a high flying lawyer or pilot? 

 

I have choice. I choose not to do those things. Other women who also don’t choose to run businesses or read maths or become engineers like me are not down trodden - we just didn’t want to. Women in the empowerment movement find that hard to accept. 

[Seraphim]

As my mom says , “ people do exactly what they want and receive exactly what they want . To get different you have to want and do different. “