Standing Alone: When Your Partner Disagrees

[yogacat]

16 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

how well did your ex know that cheating person? Did you have a talk about cheating with that ex?

Just circling back to this. This isn't an ex, just someone I am talking casually to. But to answer your question, not very well. I later said that to him I don't always feel like being nice when I don't agree with something.

The other day, my remarks about the woman having an affair and not feeling sorry for her showed that. I have strong opinions about cheating and couldn't empathize with her. 

5 hours ago, LootieTootie said:

Sarcasm aside, I think this might be a tell-tale sign that you two arent going to work out. You both should be able to discuss or say what you think/feel, without the other trying to make you feel bad about how you think/feel. I get the feeling he was not considering your feelings and if you arent dating but there's some interests there, I don't think this is a good sign.

 

Naturally. She seemed genuinely hurt. Yes, it was her own actions that caused the pain, but he couldn't help feeling some sympathy towards her. 

He understands it is wrong, but he felt that she seemed genuinely hurt. Yes, it was her own actions that caused the pain, but he couldn't help feeling some sympathy towards her.

That being said, it doesn't change the fact that I struggle with finding the compassion for her given what she did. It's a difficult situation to navigate.

[Capricorn3]

6 hours ago, tattoobunnie said:

People who have affairs are garbage people.  People brag publicly about their affairs are also garbage people.

I think if all people were brutally honest, the vast majority would agree with the above and I also think very few would feel genuine sympathy for anyone who has affairs (which in turn breaks up marriages and families and destroys lives, etc).  Yoga, know that you are not alone in your thinking.

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

That being said, it doesn't change the fact that I struggle with finding the compassion for her given what she did. It's a difficult situation to navigate.

I hear ya.   I don't think it's required as a human being to empathize or sympathize with everyone we encounter who is struggling or hurting in a relationship.  Especially when it was their choice to enter into that relationship (in this case an affair) AND remain in that relationship/affair.

I mean I suppose we could empathize with the pain they're feeling but when you consider that whatever pain they are feeling could have been avoided by NOT entering into the affair and remaining in the affair, it can be hard sometimes to empathize and I think that is totally OKAY.

Anyway I am with you @yoga and I am typically a very compassionate person.  She chose on her own accord to have the affair, and really has no one else to blame but herself.  

I am of the belief that with few exceptions each and every one of us is responsible for what happens to us in life, we all have choices.  SHE made that choice and now she needs to live with the consequences.

Perhaps she will learn something from the experience and next time she will make a different choice by NOT having an affair which as @Capricorn3said and everyone knows destroys family and lives.

 

 

[Seraphim]

I think the point is different perspectives makes the world go round. While I probably would not have had sympathy for her telling someone else how to respond or feel  isn’t cool either . Everyone has a right to their feelings . 

[Batya33]

15 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

I think the point is different perspectives makes the world go round. While I probably would not have had sympathy for her telling someone else how to respond or feel  isn’t cool either . Everyone has a right to their feelings . 

Yes. I couldn’t figure out how to put it - my issue with how this man responded to Yogacat. I like how you put it.
i can imagine feeling sorry for a woman who had an affair and was hurting if it had to do with an abusive husband or a husband with an addiction he was not treating but no not from pain resulting from having an affair. So would he sympathize with a person who scammed another person out of money because she got caught and was now facing potential jail time ?

[yogacat]

30 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

I think the point is different perspectives makes the world go round. While I probably would not have had sympathy for her telling someone else how to respond or feel  isn’t cool either . Everyone has a right to their feelings . 

Yep, and not a good way to show the lady of your affections that you’re digging. Showing that degree of discompassion and misunderstanding gets about the same result as being caught stealing from the tip jar.😂

[rainbowsandroses]

11 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Yep, and not a good way to show the lady of your affections that you’re digging. Showing that degree of discompassion and misunderstanding gets about the same result as being caught stealing from the tip jar.😂

LOL, like I said earlier, perhaps he thought it would turn you on.  That he's not a "yes man" and was attempting to create some tension.

I dunno, I have heard men say this, apparently there are women who get turned on when men disagree with them or even get angry with them!  Put them in their place as the women refer to it.

It's a real thing.  SMH

 

[Seraphim]

13 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Yep, and not a good way to show the lady of your affections that you’re digging. Showing that degree of discompassion and misunderstanding gets about the same result as being caught stealing from the tip jar.😂

But why is it so important for him to hate her ? 

[yogacat]

9 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

LOL, like I said earlier, perhaps he thought it would turn you on.  That he's not a "yes man" and was attempting to create some tension.

I dunno, I have heard men say this, apparently there are women who get turned on when men disagree with them or even get angry with them!  Put them in their place as the women refer to it.

It's a real thing.  SMH

 

Interesting. LOL

It's something maybe about the assertiveness and a difference in opinion attractive because it signals confidence and independence? Or a subconscious desire for a challenge or for someone who challenges your thoughts and ideas?

[rainbowsandroses]

Just now, yogacat said:

Interesting. LOL

It's something maybe about the assertiveness and a difference in opinion attractive because it signals confidence and independence? Or a subconscious desire for a challenge or for someone who challenges your thoughts and ideas?

I think you hit the nail on the head!  And as I said earlier, it's also a form of dominance which also apparently turns some women on.

But it's a fine line because sometimes (not in your situation) it can come across as abusive.  I have experienced that with some men who apparently were quite interested in me romantically.

I have heard men admit to it.

 

 

 

[yogacat]

4 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I think you hit the nail on the head!  And as I said earlier, it's also a form of dominance which also apparently turns some women on.

But it's a fine line because sometimes (not in your situation) it can come across as abusive.  I have experienced that with some men who apparently were quite interested in me romantically.

I have heard men admit to it.

Yes. That makes sense. But what's weird, is that I prefer the "yes" man type for long term romantic relationships, but I get turned on by men who disagree with me? I'm not so sure.

It's almost like I can separate the two. Maybe I like a challenge in the short term, but ultimately I want someone who supports and agrees with me in the long term.

All my ex's were "yes" men! For the most part.

I think that it could be because the "yes" man makes me feel secure and validated in my opinions and ideas, but the excitement and challenge of someone who disagrees with you can be exciting in the moment.

[Seraphim]

1 minute ago, yogacat said:

Yes. That makes sense. But what's weird, is that I prefer the "yes" man type for long term romantic relationships, but I get turned on by men who disagree with me? I'm not so sure.

It's almost like I can separate the two. Maybe I like a challenge in the short term, but ultimately I want someone who supports and agrees with me in the long term.

All my ex's were "yes" men! For the most part.

I think that it could be because the "yes" man makes me feel secure and validated in my opinions and ideas, but the excitement and challenge of someone who disagrees with you can be exciting in the moment.

Ask yourself why you need a yes man. 

[yogacat]

Just now, Seraphim said:

Ask yourself why you need a yes man. 

Ugh Seraphim. Deep probing question. Thank you! I honestly don't know. 😂 Okay well, if I had to hazard a guess, there's a part of me that likes having my own way and being right.

I know that's not always a good thing, but it's something I'm working on. And to have someone always saying yes to me, almost reinforces that. It's like, "see I was right!"

But at the same time, I know that's not a healthy mindset and as I've gotten older and had more life experience, I've come to appreciate differing opinions and the value in being challenged. It keeps me open-minded and helps me grow as a person.

So while I still enjoy a "yes" man, I also appreciate a healthy dose of disagreement.

[Seraphim]

1 minute ago, yogacat said:

Ugh Seraphim. Deep probing question. Thank you! I honestly don't know. 😂 Okay well, if I had to hazard a guess, there's a part of me that likes having my own way and being right.

I know that's not always a good thing, but it's something I'm working on. And to have someone always saying yes to me, almost reinforces that. It's like, "see I was right!"

But at the same time, I know that's not a healthy mindset and as I've gotten older and had more life experience, I've come to appreciate differing opinions and the value in being challenged. It keeps me open-minded and helps me grow as a person.

So while I still enjoy a "yes" man, I also appreciate a healthy dose of disagreement.

Just remember a yes man is also someone that will be deeply resentful in time . 

[yogacat]

5 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Just remember a yes man is also someone that will be deeply resentful in time . 

Yes. I realize that. Which is something I hope to avoid otherwise I would have never started this thread.

[rainbowsandroses]

7 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Maybe I like a challenge in the short term, but ultimately I want someone who supports and agrees with me in the long term.

I definitely want my SO to support me (emotionally) but I would be totally bored with a man who always agreed with me.

It's funny because that has happened to me and with the same man!!   In the beginning during early stages he would disagree with me when he had a different opinion and challenge my thoughts and opinions, respectfully of course.

I had a lot of respect for him!

As time went on, not sure what happened but he turned into a total yes man, it seemed like he was walking on eggshells with me afraid to take his own stand for fear it would turn me off or something, it was weird!  Same man!!

I found myself losing my attraction and a certain respect and I eventually broke up with him.

 

 

[Capricorn3]

10 minutes ago, yogacat said:

 but ultimately I want someone who supports and agrees with me in the long term.

I have an extremely supportive husband, but he is certainly not a "yes man" and doesn't always agree with my views - in fact, we are like chalk and cheese on so many levels it's ridiculous, lol. BUT, when it comes down to the important things in life, he's got my back and I have his.  Support is everything.  Yes man?  Not so much.

[rainbowsandroses]

18 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I know that's not always a good thing, but it's something I'm working on. And to have someone always saying yes to me, almost reinforces that. It's like, "see I was right!"

I don't mean to sound sexist but I've always considered this mindset a "guy thing."  Some guys not all.   Always needing to right, my way or the highway so to speak. 

JMO but I think it's about ego.  Have you considered that possibility?

That it's your ego at play here?  Always needing to be right?

For me, I am the opposite.  I love hearing a different perspective, from my SO or anyone, I am always open to learning something new and different and seeing things in a different light.

That is why I could never be with a yes man, I suppose in a way I like learning from my SO and of course he learns from me too in different ways.

I could never learn anything from a yes man when he's always agreeing with me!  Yawn.

No wrong or right, different strokes and all that.

 

[rainbowsandroses]

@yogacat, I am also wondering why you need a man to always agree with you even when you know he doesn't?  To me that sounds very phony and disingenuous, I mean if you have a different opinion, say so!

Don't agree with me because you think it will please me or whatever, that is just so phony, I don't think I could ever trust a man like that.

How could you ever be sure he was being honest about anything!  When his motivation is to always please you?  

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

Something to lighten things up before I head out.

When you hear elderly (80+) couples speak about their successful marriage that has lasted in some cases 60+ years, whenever the husband was asked "what's your secret to keeping your wife happy"?

More times than not, the men would respond "always agree with her!"  Said with a chuckle but it was obvious they meant it.

I dunno, I thought that was funny.

So perhaps there is some truth to it after all.... for some women anyway. 😂

Nite guys.

[Seraphim]

6 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Something to lighten things up before I head out.

When you hear elderly (80+) couples speak about their successful marriage that has lasted in some cases 60+ years, whenever the husband was asked "what's your secret to keeping your wife happy"?

More times than not, the men would respond "always agree with her!"  He said it with a chuckle but it was obvious he meant it.

I dunno, I thought that was funny.

So perhaps there is some truth to it after all.... for some women anyway. 😂

Nite guys.

Hahahaha someone forgot to tell us . While we agree on the fundamentals there are some ways we don’t agree obviously not enough to cause enough strife to cause a rift. Does he support me ? Yes. Does he always agree? No. 

[Cherylyn]

If my husband and I disagree about anything while observing each other during social settings,  we generally don't publicly humiliate each other with any type of scolding whatsoever.  We wait until we're home and then voice our opinions regarding how either one of us could've handled various situations better.   We readjust and know better next time. 

In the past,  my husband did not want to get involved with his local relatives (for example his mother and sister)  if they were not loyal to me and if they were playing both sides of the fence with some people in my family who've wronged me sorely.  He preferred to stay out of it.  I've privately voiced my disapproval regarding his behavior.  Then over time,  the light turned on in his brain and he was fuming at them.  He told me that he will defend me by clearing my name and speaking up on my behalf which I appreciated. 

It is I who has since reconsidered and advised him not to be confrontational.  I told him that it's better to keep the peace and operate a different,  more passive tack which we've done quite successfully.  We no longer knock ourselves out to spend time with his local family members nor entertain them in our house anymore.  In the past,  I cooked generously for them.  Granted,  we still see them a few times a year but not nearly as often as years past.  We went from being with his family every month to a few times a year at the most.  I've taught him that the best thing to do is to simply disengage and this strategy works splendidly much to our amazement. 😉 😋 👍  There are times when the best thing to do is to simply do absolutely nothing.  It requires the least amount of effort and it saves our labor and money.  It's a win win situation. 

However,  we have each others backs.  In the future,  if there's an unjust dialogue,  we're not afraid to speak up calmly and maturely and if it is leading towards a heated argument,  we'll simply leave.  People can't argue with you if you're not there. 

#1  We don't place ourselves in uncomfortable situations with people who've habitually disrespected us.  We decline. 

#2  If certain socializing events are unavoidable,  we limit contact to the bare minimum such as brief,  polite greetings,  maintain a safe distance and if we must converse,   we talk about the weather.  We bore them to death.  🙄 ☺️ 

#3  We enforce extremely strong boundaries with people who don't behave honorably and graciously. 

It was years in the making though.  Our self confidence grew.  As long as we circled back to our principles and values,  it all made sense and it's for the good of the whole.  We keep the peace,  we are fair and we protect ourselves.  It works.  We've got this down to a science and our strategy works great. 

 

[DarkCh0c0]

6 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

As time went on, not sure what happened but he turned into a total yes man, it seemed like he was walking on eggshells with me afraid to take his own stand for fear it would turn me off or something, it was weird!  Same man!!

Mind if I ask how much time? Are we talking months or a few dates?

I never thought about that swift change 🤔

[yogacat]

10 hours ago, Capricorn3 said:

I have an extremely supportive husband, but he is certainly not a "yes man" and doesn't always agree with my views - in fact, we are like chalk and cheese on so many levels it's ridiculous, lol. BUT, when it comes down to the important things in life, he's got my back and I have his.  Support is everything.  Yes man?  Not so much.

I don't expect someone to agree with me 100% of the time, we can have healthy disagreement and discussions on other topics, BUT.... when it comes to what I deem as non-negotiables, I need someone who is on the same page as me.

I don't expect a partner to like my taste in music or agree with my political views, but I do expect them to share my beliefs on things like honesty, respect, and equality. So, I guess, I am more speaking from that perspective with this particular incident.

I wouldn't want someone that agreed with me just to please me, but I would want them to at least understand and respect my values and beliefs. 

10 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@yogacat, I am also wondering why you need a man to always agree with you even when you know he doesn't?  To me that sounds very phony and disingenuous, I mean if you have a different opinion, say so!

Don't agree with me because you think it will please me or whatever, that is just so phony, I don't think I could ever trust a man like that.

How could you ever be sure he was being honest about anything!  When his motivation is to always please you?  

 

 

The thing about having my own way, I guess being the middle child in my family, I grew up kind of used to getting my way, and it made my independence and self-determination very strong, that even though I know it's not always right, I still somehow feel uncomfortable when I don't.

It's like a mix of wanting to be right, but also not wanting to give up control. But like I said before, I've learned the value in being challenged and learning from others. So it's something I actively work on. Hope that answers your question!

I've also realized that sometimes, not getting my way can lead to even better outcomes. So while there may still be a part of me that enjoys having a "yes man," I know that it's not a healthy mindset and I actively work on letting go of that need for it.

I just need to be cognizant of what issues are non-negotiable and important to me and make sure that my partner shares those values and beliefs, while also being open to compromise and different viewpoints.

With my exes, they were all "yes men" to a certain extent, but where they had my back when it came to important things, they also had the courage and love to take a stand whenever it was required.

So, they weren't just "yes men" but a supportive team. Albeit, sometimes they agreed with me more than I now think they should have, lol. But such is life I guess.

I've broken up with all of my boyfriends so far, and they were all really hardworking, ambitious, loyal and overall good men (with the exception of one), but I knew deep down that I couldn't continue with them for various reasons.

One common thread among them was that I needed someone who could challenge me, push me out of my comfort zone, and help me grow as a person. I would like someone that supports me and has my back, but also isn't afraid to say no or challenge my thinking. I hope that I can do that for a partner too.

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, yogacat said:

Yes. That makes sense. But what's weird, is that I prefer the "yes" man type for long term romantic relationships, but I get turned on by men who disagree with me? I'm not so sure.

It's almost like I can separate the two. Maybe I like a challenge in the short term, but ultimately I want someone who supports and agrees with me in the long term.

All my ex's were "yes" men! For the most part.

I think that it could be because the "yes" man makes me feel secure and validated in my opinions and ideas, but the excitement and challenge of someone who disagrees with you can be exciting in the moment.

I think generalizing in this way is counterproductive to finding a long term relationship but might be helpful for something short term or a fun fling. For me treating people as individuals and avoiding as much as possible stereotypes -especially negative or with negative connotations -about "men" was essential to finding the right match for me. 

I don't like being around yes people except in small doses or as acquaintances. It's boring to me.  And often I don't feel validated -I'm suspicious about the motive of "yes".  And to me it's silly to approach interactions as either yes person or otherwise -it depends.  When my friend complains about her marriage I feel so much like challenging her beliefs about her marriage, her role, her inability to see her role - but - I know what she needs is not a yes person but for me to simply listen -to keep my feelings to myself -to tell her I defer to her opinions of what to do.  And that I am there for her.  But if she told me she was planning on having an affair (she is not!) - I'd tell her I don't want to hear more about it and can't be a person to listen or be supportive about a plan like that.  But I also wouldn't challenge her opinion that she should go forward with cheating. 

To me emotional intelligence means you interact with people and voice your opinion depending on the individual person, the circumstances, the context.  I would never -and I am married! - challenge my husband's opinions about his late parents because it's simply not my place.  But if he voices a strong opinion about a political matter that is important to me, about a work situation that strikes me as something that needs attention (from me) I'll voice my opinion in a way that is conducive to having a conversation.

  Thing is we are on the same page very often but that's different from being a yes person who keeps quiet no matter what because they don't want to rock the boat. And on the flip side being combative and argumentative for sport or to show dominance is also not emotionally intelligent unless it's with a friend where that's your thing -where you both enjoy that.  

Also if  you respect and admire the person you are with and you feel close to them so much of how to interact comes naturally IMO.  It's not about gamesmanship or impressing the other person.  It's about being close instead of right.

OP -if you want to find reasons to criticize or even bash "men" and how "they" behave in romantic relationships or in dating there's tons out there for you to dig into. Certainly be selective in who you date, befriend, etc but if you come at it with this bias I mean -why bother.  And yes I have seen a bias in this thread that makes me concerned.

 I took my teenager to see Inside Out 2 on Thursday and we loved it. Afterwards he ran into an administrator from his former middle school who was delighted to see him -I heard how he spoke with her while I was in the restroom and I was proud.  He acts in a respectful and articulate way (not always in private and not when you try to wake him up lol) - whatever gender or race or ethnicity the person is. He is not a yes man for sure - and he's a teenager so you know he's learning how to voice his opinions - but he at 15 knows how to conduct himself so that he can express his opinion and not make the other person feel badly for his.  I'm not there all the time but he is in so many situations where I figure I'd get feedback (like from his camp supervisor, a teacher,etc) if there was a problem. Instead I get oodles of positive feedback. 

I don't take full credit at all for this.  Nor does my husband.  I take some, I give a bit more than some to my husband actually.  So this is not about bragging but mentioning that there is a teenage boy out there who I hope is treated fairly when he voices opinions and not with a bias that he's trying to "dominate".