Loosing Trust in Wife

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, Lilylis said:

I think what’s important to point out here is that everyone has different expectations and standards when it comes to their partners, depending on what their love means to them. Physical attraction is indeed natural and maybe unrealistic to think it wouldn’t happen between a partner and someone else, but in this case that attraction is maybe an observation, a remark like “he has nice eyes” or “he’s quite tall and built” etc. It’s more something that catches your attention, rather than something you think about and bring it up in conversation or tell your friends about. In that case it is a big issue, for me it would be at least. When you really have strong romantic feelings for someone you only have them on your mind and they’re the most attractive to you, even if maybe they’re not “objectively attractive”. That’s why it hurts when we see the person act otherwise, we feel like those strong romantic feelings are faded, and our love is not reciprocated anymore. It’s painful.

Thanks for sharing your view and as I wrote above I agree that it's individual but again if he had your standards then he would have been really upset she even attended an event where a stripper would be the entertainer.  He wasn't.  I don't only have my husband on my mind -I live in the real world, I work, have close female and male friends and I think my husband doesn't only have me on his mind -thank goodness!

My husband is attractive to me and vice versa, I've never been a person who needs arm candy or someone "objectively attractive" - if I felt chemistry that was the beginning and end of it.  I think the OP's main concerns here are not that she doesn't love him anymore but that she's now been crossing lines that she hasn't in the past and it's becoming an issue -a pattern. Separately he also feels insecure about his body so in his mind the situation is related.  I think he realizes that's a stretch because if she's acting inappropriately I doubt it's because he's put on some weight.  I also think having a young child is a joy and can also strain a marriage.

[Lilylis]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Thanks for sharing your view and as I wrote above I agree that it's individual but again if he had your standards then he would have been really upset she even attended an event where a stripper would be the entertainer.  He wasn't.  I don't only have my husband on my mind -I live in the real world, I work, have close female and male friends and I think my husband doesn't only have me on his mind -thank goodness!

My husband is attractive to me and vice versa, I've never been a person who needs arm candy or someone "objectively attractive" - if I felt chemistry that was the beginning and end of it.  I think the OP's main concerns here are not that she doesn't love him anymore but that she's now been crossing lines that she hasn't in the past and it's becoming an issue -a pattern. Separately he also feels insecure about his body so in his mind the situation is related.  I think he realizes that's a stretch because if she's acting inappropriately I doubt it's because he's put on some weight.  I also think having a young child is a joy and can also strain a marriage.

Having someone else on their mind in a romantic context, as in thinking about their physical features or nice moments they’ve had or are having together. But yh you’re right, this isn’t the case there she isn’t getting to close to someone else, she just crossed boundaries that signalled something to him, that she would be attracted to someone else other than him, and he didn’t expect that. He didn’t have a problem with her going to a party with a stripper, because he didn’t think that would be a problem, his wife dancing closely to the stripper. I’m sure he didn’t even think she’d want to do that. It makes it worse that he’s insecure, but her behaviour would hurt someone even if they are in shape and don’t feel insecure about their body.

 

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, Lilylis said:

Having someone else on their mind in a romantic context, as in thinking about their physical features or nice moments they’ve had or are having together. But yh you’re right, this isn’t the case there she isn’t getting to close to someone else, she just crossed boundaries that signalled something to him, that she would be attracted to someone else other than him, and he didn’t expect that. He didn’t have a problem with her going to a party with a stripper, because he didn’t think that would be a problem, his wife dancing closely to the stripper. I’m sure he didn’t even think she’d want to do that. It makes it worse that he’s insecure, but her behaviour would hurt someone even if they are in shape and don’t feel insecure about their body.

 

Right so if a couple has your standard - I certainly have had fantasies about other men in a romantic context and I'm sure my husband has as well about women and it's not something we'd ask about or discuss- unless we wanted to do some sort of fantasy role play - but if he felt that way obviously they'd have agreed a long time ago that it's silly to be in a room with a stripper entertaining and encouraging women to dance with him, silly to play with fire by dancing with a stripper - just like someone who is diabetic and on a strict diet isn't going to buy her favorite sweet treat and put it on the counter in her face where she can see it.  

I don't think dancing with a stripper is a problem at all if the couple is comfortable with it and there are couples who affirmatively want to see that or hear about it because it's a turn on.  It is a problem here because she also had it videoed and now she is also making tacky and inappropriate comments about her colleagues and she may be accepting inappropriate social media messages with another man.  They met when she was 14.  It could be that her values are changing at this stage, could be that she is bored being a mom and wife -who knows -they should discuss but I don't agree with your generalizations and I respect that your standards work for yo. 

[Kwothe28]

43 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

To respond to what Kwok28 wrote -no double standard from me.  At all.  Would say the same if was a woman posting about her husband.

You literally groped a stripper but then had a problem when your hubby even wanted to just attend one such event for a bachelor night of his friend I guess. If you dont think its such a big deal, why didnt you allowed hubby to attend such event? But OP needs to “gets past his insecurities” and dont think its a big deal when his wife do it. So no, I dont believe that you will “have that same energy” if OP is a woman.

And that is my problem with most of posters on the thread. You all gave OPs wife a pass solely because she is a woman and all of you had such experiences. You all had strippers encounters, all had messages from colleagues and all had conversations when you labeled some colleague as “hot”. So it makes easier for you to give his wife a pass because you have empathy as somebody who did the same. So if you did it, it cant be that bad, right? Except when a man does it to you. Then you are “uncomfortable “ with it and he needs to stop. Heck, we have a case here where a prominent poster freely looks into her husband phone, and deletes colleagues numbers because he cheated and now he needs to conform to that. She freely admits its toxic from her side. And none of you called out that behavior. Because, frankly, most of you think its OK. But if we reverse genders, you would call a police on a man trying to do it, and rightfully call it controlling. 

Same in this case. If your husband groped a stripper, had a hot colleague messaging him or commenting in your presence how other women are hot, you would went “Karen mode” on him. He probably would have to find another home in a matter of hours. But since now we are talking about Op who is a man, he needs to endure that. Right? Because you would totally not said anything and endure such behavior from your husband. Right?

[yogacat]

Not to compare apples to oranges but I am sure 15 years ago if a woman had the same body as your typical bikini model you would not find it strange to note yourself that she has a hot body.

Even IF you prefer your wife's body yourself.

Fast forward to today, and it suddenly makes you uncomfortable for your wife to acknowledge another man?

I don't think it's unreasonable to not appreciate if a woman like your wife had a "hen's night" for a friend and grinded on a male stripper half naked for 5 minutes. That you would be pretty cheesed off and uncomfortable.

Do you look at men's entertainment magazines? Adult films online? Watch adult films?

Now I agree that your wife's comments are 100% insulting, I'm sorry she said that to you.

I was in a relationship for several years where sometimes myself or my partner would comment on the attractiveness of a stranger. This particular relationship it didn't phase us and we never felt threatened by it because it was said tastefully and 99% of the focus was on ourselves and each other but it was still understood that we agreed, "yeah he/she is a attractive."  

I felt very secure with him, attractive, loved, probably because our relationship was mostly healthy and we were best friends. But that being said, I've been with a guy where I felt the opposite and something like this coming out of his mouth had a way different reception from me.

No, I don't think you're wrong to not like it. You might have communicated clearly, without it coming off as an attack towards her character, but calmly "I know I said I would work on my insecurity and I am. But please be mindful, and not openly sharing your comments about other men while understanding that I might feel like this, when I told you it hurts me. I don't agree it has to be shared."

That's an issue and it can be fixed. 

But it falls on her to choose whether or not to be mindful and respectful of that. You have been together for a long time, so it's understandable that you both have developed habits and comfortable ways of communicating.  

Now, she may perceive it as innocent or a small issue because she didn't mean any harm by it. Nothing wrong with her thinking and appreciating the beauty of another person, actor, model or what have you, but there is no need to shame you with it.  

She can keep it in her head - it's called self control.

You have to self-reflect, I.E. why can't she extrude empathy for you when you voice an issue that bothers you? 

Remember you are in a partnership. Any fair and good partnership needs to be based on high levels of respect, understanding, empathy, love, trust, and open mindedness. 

This might be part of a bigger issue: needs not being met and your wife not seeing the issue but just like you would do anything to meet her needs, I believe and hope she would do the same for you if you did not make ultimatums, push her, make her do anything out of her own will. Nobody likes any of that. 

Your wife might be falling short of showing you her understanding and support for you and your feelings in this area. There must be some underlying need that is not being fulfilled.

Maybe just based on you two knowing each other so well you can think when it might have possibly started? It can be just a small lack of understanding to maybe something a little deeper...

That's what you need to get to the bottom of if you hope to heal your battle wounds. 

She was 14 when the two of you got together, so it might just be a matter of her acting/mostly saying stupid things to fit in somewhere. Suddenly she has male attention other than the man she has been with since she was a teenager. That may be one of the hardest things to go through with your wife given the emotional maturity she might have been hospitalized to develop given the age.

So tread lightly if that's the case. That's going to take some big time patience. 

[Batya33]

53 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

You literally groped a stripper but then had a problem when your hubby even wanted to just attend one such event for a bachelor night of his friend I guess. If you dont think its such a big deal, why didnt you allowed hubby to attend such event? But OP needs to “gets past his insecurities” and dont think its a big deal when his wife do it. So no, I dont believe that you will “have that same energy” if OP is a woman.

And that is my problem with most of posters on the thread. You all gave OPs wife a pass solely because she is a woman and all of you had such experiences. You all had strippers encounters, all had messages from colleagues and all had conversations when you labeled some colleague as “hot”. So it makes easier for you to give his wife a pass because you have empathy as somebody who did the same. So if you did it, it cant be that bad, right? Except when a man does it to you. Then you are “uncomfortable “ with it and he needs to stop. Heck, we have a case here where a prominent poster freely looks into her husband phone, and deletes colleagues numbers because he cheated and now he needs to conform to that. She freely admits its toxic from her side. And none of you called out that behavior. Because, frankly, most of you think its OK. But if we reverse genders, you would call a police on a man trying to do it, and rightfully call it controlling. 

Same in this case. If your husband groped a stripper, had a hot colleague messaging him or commenting in your presence how other women are hot, you would went “Karen mode” on him. He probably would have to find another home in a matter of hours. But since now we are talking about Op who is a man, he needs to endure that. Right? Because you would totally not said anything and endure such behavior from your husband. Right?

No actually. I never said no to my husband. He didn’t want a stripper at his cancelled bachelor party. He’s never been invited to a bachelor party with a stripper since we’ve known each other unless he did in the 8 years we were apart. I don’t think so and it’s a non issue. Never asked. I kissed a stripper when I was a teenager and I believe I was single. And if I was still dating my high school sweetheart at the time - honestly we were on and off dating - I know he knew I was going to a bachelorette. Had he wanted to when we were teens I mean I’m sure I would have looked the other way. My values and standards changed when I became an adult. I declined to date a really handsome and nice man who told me on date three he used to frequent strip clubs for his sales job and he didn’t consider lap dances sexual or cheating if he were in a relationship. I never wanted to see him again.

My husband has never wanted to go to any club like that. He’s never worked in a field where that would be at all work related. I would never go to any event with male entertainment unless I could go to the part of it without it. Like if there was a ladies night with dinner first at a restaurant and later some strip club I’d only attend the dinner. Therefore it would never be discussed with my husband as I wouldn’t go.
When I was a teenager I thought Chippendales was cool. And in my 20s my then boyfriend went to a strip club. He told me he’d done nothing while there. He told me this on his own. I’d put up with his partying and drinking. I was young. And dumb in that way. Then his BFF said at dinner one night that my bf had had a lap dance. This was untrue and said to upset me. Had my BF lied I’d have had a problem with the lie.  
So no I don’t have a double standard. If I kissed or sexually danced with another man in any way I’d be cheating on my husband because those are our boundaries.
i would not be ok at all with my husband being physically close to a woman in a sexual way or sexual environment. But it’s all hypothetical. Because neither would he. We feel the same. No double standard. 

[Bertram]

19 hours ago, Gatguy said:

I feel like the other major thing that has changed in the past few years that I could point to is we have had our daughter. In that time my wife has become more "womanly" if that makes sense. She is much more confident, less out spoken, more flirty with men in general. Maybe I'm just worried I'm loosing "control" (lack of a better term I always felt we have had a very equal relationship) but her respect maybe towards me has shifted and as her confidence has grown she is less concerned about my feelings and that she is lucky to have me? 

Is it possible that that was one of the main things she wanted you for? This happened with one of my best friends' wife. She was devoted before she had kids, lost interest afterwards. Not saying it's true in your case. 

[catfeeder]

21 hours ago, Gatguy said:

2. How do I make her more sensitive to how I'm feeling.

Certainly not by telling her on the one hand that you know it's your problem but, at the same time, pointing to her behavior as responsible for it.

She regarded the stripper video as a benign way to share a laugh with you. Instead, she was probably floored by your reaction, which may have come off as accusatory. Nobody responds well to that.

So now every time you raise your jealousy, she feels defensive, which is the opposite of feeling inspired to comfort you. You're going to need to work this through without her help, because that bridge has been burned, as evidenced by her pointed comments about men at work. She's either trying to desensitize you or otherwise punch the point that she's not going to cater to any controlling behavior from you.

What might have been treated as a single instance of one spouse seeking some reassurance from the other has become a power struggle. That can't be won by trying to change HER attitudes and behaviors. The only win to shoot for is management of your own, and hopefully over time, she will feel less threatened as you demonstrate self sufficiency in this regard. 

 

[TeeDee]

If your wife or any other woman came onto a message board talking about her husband / BF getting a lap dance, talking about hot MILFs etc. everyone would rally around her & call the guy a clod.  

You deserve that level of support & understanding for what you are going through even though the roles are reversed.  

That said, you still fix your confidence problems from within.  

[yogacat]

@Gatguy--> 

Do you think maybe her saying these things, she is trying to get a response from you? I mean, she could be looking for confrontation, to know you still care about what she thinks, and wants to vaildate herself.

I missed the part about her making the comments about hot dads during your grandmother's funeral, does she normally not have a 2 second filter on what is inappropriate?

[Bertram]

25 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Do you think maybe her saying these things, she is trying to get a responce from you? I mean, she could be looking for confrontation, to know you still care about what she thinks, and wants to vaildate herself.

I wondered that. So hard to say. 

 

25 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I missed the part about her making the comments about hot dads during your grandmother's funeral, does she normally not have a 2 second filter on what is inappropriate?

Yeah, this very odd behaviour. I'm not surprised the OP is feeling weird about it. Somethings is making him feel insecure now when he wasn't before. Is it lots of little signals, comments, body language and so on? This can add up and not be paranoia. 

[yogacat]

21 minutes ago, Bertram said:

I wondered that. So hard to say. 

Yes. Agree.

Sometimes (not all the time) but when a woman calls another guy cute or hot or handsome, it’s because she’s fishing for any form of jealousy from you. She may attempt to provoke jealousy in you in order to gauge your character as a man. She wants to invoke the fear that you could lose her to other guys as well.

Now of course I can't know for sure if this is 100% the case.

You're always more attracted to something when someone wants to take it away. It’s easy to take things for granted when you’ve always had it. But when someone threatens to take it away, its value suddenly becomes more obvious. The same goes for jealousy (i.e., that feeling of whether she might leave you). It gets the adrenaline going, the fire, the passion. It is this fear and jealousy that can trigger those feelings of obsession, insanity, borderline hippocampus episodes, which in turn can lead us to do crazy – even stupid – things to try to “protect” the relationship.

That’s why jealousy can BOTH stimulate and dilute attraction.

Regardless, when she brings up guys to this degree by making graphic and sexual comments like that, it is upsetting you and hurting the relationship. She knows this. If I were you, my priority would not be changing or controlling her behaviours - she does what she wants anyway.

So really it comes down to showing her what kind of man you truly are, not through words but actions (being self assured, willing to let go knowing she's going to lose you, becoming a much better version of yourself).

That's what makes a difference between being a blue ribbon and a 3rd place winner. 3rd place being the guy that doesn't show her as much attention when she wants, has insecurities, is not emotionally healthy or not giving away his all in the relationship.

Of course one doesn't know for sure, but one has to take the time to understand one's behavior as well as the reason behind it to fortify whether or not they're going down a destructive path.  If it were me in this scenario I would see this like your wife is essentially, teasing and being a little bit immature in trying to understand who I am at my core.  

Now whether or not she is searching for confrontation, which is immature, and probe your anger to validate your own emotions (yes emotions are two fold they are insecurities and solutions) makes it a little bit more difficult.

As long as you two can find a way to communicate and strip down all of the emotions that incite conflict you'll be able to understand together what grounds work that you both need to do together and alone to assure that you both don't continue down a path no one is happy about.

[Coily]

Honestly her sending that video with a stripper would have caused a cavalcade of questions for anyone that had been in a relationship for 15 some years. While you may not have been the most adroit in handling this initially, the fact that she keeps up this campaign of making you uncomfortable (especially during a freaking funeral) would (or should) lead any sensible person to question the status of the relationship.

If she is like most women I have encountered, when she mentioned the "hot guys" at work, it's more than just a tone of admiration; but sounding like she slips off and sends herself on a finger rocket trip. (Sorry, not sorry; there is a lack of disgusting lack of decorum with women when making "hot comments").

This also isn't a "You" problem, nor just a "your wife" problem; this is a team problem. There is a disconnect, a seemingly severe one in regards to how you communicate right now. So while you personally may need to examine how you are handling self confidence issues, your wife can't be treated like she has no skin in the marriage game.

 

[rainbowsandroses]

5 hours ago, catfeeder said:

She regarded the stripper video as a benign way to share a laugh with you. Instead, she was probably floored by your reaction, which may have come off as accusatory. Nobody responds well to that.

I agree with this^. 

I dunno, perhaps I am more permissive than most people, or maybe just more understanding, but I never had an issue with any of my boyfriends attending a Bachelor party where there were strippers or the group headed out to a strip club during a Bachelor party.  I never felt threatened nor did I find it offensive or disrespectful.

Like @catfeedersaid it was benign event, I would imagine a once every few YEARS event among friends during a Bachelor party.

And all my boyfriends appreciated my good humor about it, and my TRUST in them and that I didn't freak out imposing restrictions or acting in any way that would be deemed controlling.  In fact, when he came home and told me what occurred (harmless, meaningless fun), I laughed, we both laughed.  I found it hilarious!

That type of reaction (the former) only leads to resentment imo.  Personally if my boyfriend or husband imposed such restrictions on me, I would feel quite controlled, the RL would feel oppressive and stifling and it would suggest to me HE has trust issues with me and/or unreasonably insecure and controlling.

None of that is good or positive IMO.  Again we are talking about a once every few YEARS event during a Bachelor party or in your case a Bachelorette party. 

If it became a regular thing, then yes I would have an issue with that.  Fortunately it never did.

All that said, OP clearly there are many other issues within you and your relationship that add to the disconnect and all this discord.  My suggestion would be to seek marriage counseling before it gets worse.   I also suggest individual counseling.   

I realize sometimes therapy gets a bad rap but it's helped me tremendously, especially recently as I have found a new therapist.

Hopefully your wife will be open to that and you can resolve your issues and your insecurities and get back to that place where you both are happy at feel at peace again.

 

 

[catfeeder]

2 hours ago, TeeDee said:

If your wife or any other woman came onto a message board talking about her husband / BF getting a lap dance, talking about hot MILFs etc. everyone would rally around her & call the guy a clod.    

I agree in terms of the comments about the men at work. I view that as crude and deliberately provocative, and likely a dig at her husband’s jealousy. But strippers don’t offend me and never have, so this thread is a lesson for me on how many people have strong reactions to them. Frankly, I don’t understand how so many weddings continue to occur after bachelorette and bachelor parties given how commonly these shows are performed for these occasions.

[ShySoul]

I learned long ago that what other couples do or okay with in their relationship is none of my business. Generally, it's not somethig I want to know about. So if Gatguy is okay with it, then I'm okay with it. Some couples are offended by the other seeing a stripper. Some are fine with it. Some would even go together. If no one is being hurt, it's whatever the couple decide together is acceptable.

Gatguy, you say her acting out has only started recently. You got together at 14. She recently had a daughter. Her family was not very open or good at communicating and seems to have had issues there that might not have been resolved. Maybe she hit a point where she's tired of holding it in or being the adult in the room? Maybe she feels the need to act out a little, be wild and have fun? Maybe years of repressing and  holding it in has built up and is coming out? 

I think you both have issues you need to work with on your own. You seem very aware of your stuff. Work on your inner confidence and don't compare yourself to others (no matter how "hot" some may see them as). I'm not sure if she sees her issues though. Of course, I'm not there so don't want to say anything about her for sure. But it does seem rather classless to me making those comments at a funeral. It's not right for her to seemingly dismiss your feelings. She could work on being more interstanding. It's not a case of one person or the other needing to do something, it's both of you needing to come together and seeing that your not currently connecting. I think you are caught up in your own minds and need to communicate to fully understand what the other is feeling and why. If you can't seem to do it own your own, try counseling. 

And I'm sorry about your brother. That must be a really difficult thing to process. I hope you (and your family) are doing okay.

 

[rainbowsandroses]

38 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

I learned long ago that what other couples do or okay with in their relationship is none of my business. Generally, it's not somethig I want to know about. So if Gatguy is okay with it, then I'm okay with it.

I agree and I think most people would be okay with it too.  However, clearly @Gatewayis NOT okay with it, hence this thread seeking different perspectives.

Right?  I dunno SS, what am I missing? TBH, I am confused by the comment.

I do agree they both have issues that need to be addressed and resolved if they are to have a happy and harmonious marriage.  That's a given.

 

[Cherylyn]

Never gaslight yourself into thinking that you're insecure,   you need communication,   it's about trust,   you're too sensitive,  blah,  blah,  blah.   😒  🙄

It's about actions and not being fine with it at all.    ☹️

I agree with what  @Kwothe28 said, too.

 

[rainbowsandroses]

56 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

Never gaslight yourself into thinking that you're insecure,   you need communication,   it's about trust,   you're too sensitive,  blah,  blah,  blah. 

It's about actions and not being fine with it at all. 

Agree it's about actions and not being fine with it, but why are you not fine with it?

It never hurts to look within and introspect into our own reactions to a particular action or actions.  If we fail to do that, always tossing blame on our partners and never taking responsibility for our own reactions, how does anything get resolved?  It doesn't.  It only worsens the conflict and creates a power struggle.

It takes two people to create a conflict.  One partner's actions, their partner's reaction, their partner's reaction their reaction, so on and so forth.

I dunno, I don't believe in always tossing blame on our partners.   Take responsibility for your own reactions, learn to understand your reactions and what/where they stem from. 

Are your reactions reasonable or unreasonable?  Does the "punishment" fit the "crime" so to speak?

I can't stand the "blame game" and will never play it with my partner.  Never, ever.  And would not date or get involved with a man who insisted on playing that blame game with me.

It doesn't resolve anything, can make the conflict worse and create a power struggle.

It takes two people to create a conflict and two people to resolve it.

JMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cherylyn]

22 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Agree it's about actions and not being fine with it, but why are you not fine with it?

It never hurts to look within and introspect into our own reactions to a particular action or actions.  If we fail to do that, always tossing blame on our partners and never taking responsibility for our own reactions, how does anything get resolved?  It doesn't.  It only worsens the conflict and creates a power struggle.

It takes two people to create a conflict.  One partner's actions, their partner's reaction, their partner's reaction their reaction, so on and so forth.

I dunno, I don't believe in always tossing blame on our partners.   Take responsibility for your own reactions, learn to understand your reactions and what/where they stem from. 

Are your reactions reasonable or unreasonable?  Does the "punishment" fit the "crime" so to speak?

I can't stand the "blame game" and will never play it with my partner.  Never, ever.  And would not date or get involved with a man who insisted on playing that blame game with me.

It doesn't resolve anything, can make the conflict worse and create a power struggle.

It takes two people to create a conflict and two people to resolve it.

JMO.

 

Not fine with it.  It's not rocket science.  🙄

[rainbowsandroses]

57 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

Not fine with it.  It's not rocket science.  🙄

I am not sure what you mean.  A 'my way or the highway" attitude?   Or what, you're out?   After 15 years of marriage?  Or ever? 

Well I take that back, during early stages when you're observing and evaluating if someone is the right fit for long term, it's reasonable to stop seeing someone if they don't conform to our particular boundaries.

But in a LTR relationship or marriage?  I think introspection, communication and understanding both ourselves and our partners goes a long way.  No it's not rocket science but it does involve a willingness to learn, grow and evolve.  Individually and as a couple. Imo.

I used to post on another forum and there were men there who had boundaries forbidding their girlfriends to have Sunday brunch with her friends.  Or an occasional "girl's night out."  A few men took issue with their girlfriends having ANY social media!  Nothing.  No friends, no family.  Zero.

While they were within their rights to have these boundaries, I think it's a mistake to not look within to understand WHY one has such strict boundaries.  This applies to both men and women, it's not gender specific.

Some of the more enlightened men admitted that it was due to insecurities and trust issues.  But others didn't and it was just "their way" and if the woman didn't conform, she's out.  

In any event, while I do agree with most of what you post @Cherylyn, I do not agree with you here, which is fine. 

I appreciate your perspective nevertheless.

 

 

[Cherylyn]

33 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I am not sure what you mean.  A 'my way or the highway" attitude?   Or what, you're out?   After 15 years of marriage?  Or ever? 

Well I take that back, during early stages when you're observing and evaluating if someone is the right fit for long term, it's reasonable to stop seeing someone if they don't conform to our particular boundaries.

But in a LTR relationship, or marriage?  I think introspection, communication and understanding both ourselves and our partners goes a long way.  No it's not rocket science but it does involve a willingness to learn, grow and evolve.  Individually and as a couple. Imo.

I used to post on another forum and there were men there who had boundaries forbidding their girlfriends to have Sunday brunch with her friends.  Or an occasional "girl's night out."  A few men took issue with their girlfriends having ANY social media!  

While they were within their rights to have these boundaries, I think it's a mistake to not look within to understand WHY one has such strict boundaries.

Some of the more enlightened men admitted that it was due to insecurities and trust issues.  But others didn't and it was just "their way" and if the woman didn't conform, she's out.  

In any event, while I do agree with most of what you post @Cherylyn, I do not agree with you here, which is fine. 

I appreciate your perspective nevertheless.

 

 

Likewise.  I don't always agree with you either @rainbowsandroses I appreciate your perspective as well.

Both sides are incompatible and if each side refuses to budge or have some sort of reasoning,  it's not going to work out. 

I doubt his wife would approve of her husband @Gatguy doing everything she did to him such as her husband being entertained by a female stripper and the husband sharing this video with his wife hoping she is amused by it all.  Should she broach the subject,  he becomes defensive and shuts her down,  he messages his female colleague frequently on IG,  he describes how "HOT" his female colleague is,  describes about all the "HOT" mothers he works with,  oh but wait there's more,  there's also this really "HOT" female colleague, too.  Can't forget to mention her!  Then he mumbles sorry and asks what was wrong?   Really.  🙄 

 

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

31 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

Both sides are incompatible and if each side refuses to budge or have some sort of reasoning,  it's not going to work out. 

Thank you, this^ is what I was referring to and I agree.  Each side owning their particular role, applying reasoning to it, communicating and resolving.  Or attempting to resolve.

For the record, I would not be okay with the "hot" comments either.  However, I have had boyfriends (well one specifically) who did this on occasion and he did admit later in couples counseling, he did it to elicit a reaction because he felt uncertain and insecure.  Create jealousy and drama, as some posters suggested on this thread too about OP's wife.

It bothered me, but I knew throwing a fit about it wasn't going to resolve anything so I chose to ignore it.  He eventually stopped.  This was during early stages.

In OP's case, this is a 15 year marriage, they are committed and have children.

It's worth having a conversation about that and other issues imo.  And the other things I mentioned in my previous.   Listening, learning and understanding.

We can agree to disagree.

[Cherylyn]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Thank you, this^ is what I was referring to and I agree.  Each side owning their particular role, applying reasoning to it, communicating and resolving.  Or attempting to resolve.

For the record, I would not be okay with the "hot" comments either.  However, I have had boyfriends (well one specifically) who did this on occasion and he did admit later in couples counseling, he did it to elicit a reaction because he felt uncertain and insecure.  Create jealousy and drama, as some posters suggested on this thread too about OP's wife.

It bothered me, but I knew throwing a fit about it wasn't going to resolve anything so I chose to ignore it.  He eventually stopped.  This was during early stages.

In OP's case, this is a 15 year marriage, they are committed and have children.

It's worth having a conversation about that and other issues imo.  And the other things I mentioned in my previous.   Listening, learning and understanding.

We can agree to disagree.

15 year marriage plus together ever since they were 14 years old.  29 years is a long time. 

If the wife doesn't get it,  then she should've been with a guy who does everything she does so both of them have a thorough understanding learning and listening about each others experiences with male / female strippers,  frequent correspondence with their male / female colleagues on IG,  describing each others "HOT" male / female colleagues at the end of their work days,  not forgetting to mention the really "HOT" male / female colleague,  shut each other down when broaching these topics,  mumbling sorry, wait an hour and ask what was wrong?    🙄  There is a lack of emotional intelligence because getting through to the wife is hitting a wall.  ☹️ 

[ShySoul]

4 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

However, clearly @Gatewayis NOT okay with it, hence this thread seeking different perspectives.

Right?  I dunno SS, what am I missing? TBH, I am confused by the comment.

I was referencing the discussion on the stripper which I don't actually think is the issue here. I see it as the trigger point that brought up these other unresolved feelings of not being heard or respected. I'm guessing she was already making little comments or not showing attention and he was feeling something was off but maybe didn't fully see it. So that incident brought the insecurities fully to light.

Maybe he isn't fully okay with it, but I don't think it would have been the major issue it's become without the other issues that seem to be going on. He seems to be very insistent that he doesn't want to break up and wants to find a way to make things work. If things had been better between them, there's a good chance this could have been handled with a quick discussion about how it meant nothing and that their relationship is what matters most to both of them. 

4 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Agree it's about actions and not being fine with it, but why are you not fine with it?

It never hurts to look within and introspect into our own reactions to a particular action or actions.  If we fail to do that, always tossing blame on our partners and never taking responsibility for our own reactions, how does anything get resolved?  It doesn't.  It only worsens the conflict and creates a power struggle.

It takes two people to create a conflict.  One partner's actions, their partner's reaction, their partner's reaction their reaction, so on and so forth.

Agreed on all points. There are underlying feelings going on here on both sides. It's causing multiple incidents and conflicts. I think they would be best served figuring out why this is happening, what the cause of their feelings on. The what that triggers an argument can be anything, often things that are small or insignifcant. But it's set off by deeper and larger things going on inside. You can't figure out what really happened until you get into the why it happened. And you won't be able to fix it either.

I'm curious about her why. Something is going on that has caused a character shift. But without being there or hearing from her, its not clear what it is. 

Both sides need to take a look at why they are feeling and behaving as they do. And they need to be able to express it to the other and really listen to what is being said to them.