Looking for advice, wisdom

[takefiveely]

I’m a 52F, never married. In my early 20s I met this guy and there was this immediate attraction and intense chemistry we both later admitted to. One evening, we had quite memorable sex in his car. That night was the beginning of a lifelong on again / off again “relationship” that has lasted our entire lives, ebbed and flowed many times and has survived/surpassed all other relationships we’ve both had. We have stimulating intellectual conversations which last hours on end and many, many times have watched the sunrise together after spending all night talking. We also have amazing, toe-curling, exciting and exhausting sex. We match each other’s intensity and seem to naturally speak the same sexual language and anticipate one another’s needs, wants and desires. We have gone years without seeing one another, moved on to other relationships, fought passionately and angrily, yet always seem to find our way back to each other. The companionship and sex is just that good, we feed each other’s fire, so to speak. We’ve both admitted to love, jealousy we’ve felt when one of us has been in another relationship, and we’ve both felt we must have been connected to each other in a past life. Despite all of this, we’ve never been in an official relationship status with one another. I have always loved him and he knows this.  Should I continue to wait / hope?

[shouldhavelearned]

Talk to him about it.

See what's preventing it from being a commitment.

[smackie9]

When a man knows he wants to commit to a woman, he makes sure she knows. 

[Coily]

This sounds like a hot mess, that has held you both back. Honestly I can't fathom having that level of connection and not trying for a relationship, and if it didn't happen I would flee.

 

[Kwothe28]

Quote

Should I continue to wait / hope?

Wait for what? For him to marry you? if he hasnt wanted to be in a relationship with you for 30 years, what makes you think he will marry you?

It will never happen. You lost 30 years on somebody who never wanted to be with you. In 30 years, you could have found somebody who wanted to be with you, as well as you with him. Make a kid if you want that. Have a family together. But you7 wasted all that time on this mess. For what? Because "him and you were drawn to each other and sex was amazing". Yeah, congratulations, now you are in 50s and biological clock has gone way past you.

Block him on everything and start therapy. There is like 30 years of mess you should unfold before you maybe continue your life in a healthy way again. Because the way it is going, you will just waste more years on this and do nothing.

[takefiveely]

@Kwothe28 Disagree and please don’t make assumptions.  I’ve not lost 30 years, and already have a wonderful, talented child (just graduated from college, magna cum laude) and I’ve been in several other long-term committed relationships throughout that time (and he has as well).  The point is, we keep being drawn to one another, despite significant relationships we’ve each had.  There’s obviously some connection there, and it’s not just about the sex, we’ve had many, many lengthy encounters that were nothing other than deep, intellectual conversation, or outings to local events.  We enjoy each other’s company either way.  I don’t feel any moment has ever been wasted and I don’t regret having him in my life in whatever capacity it’s been in the past and I’m not concerned about my biological clock.  I’m only concerned about the present moment.  There is a lot more to my story with this man, my initial post is just an abbreviated version of it.  We’re both educated and hard working individuals who share a lot of parallels in life and connect on many different levels.   

[TeeDee]

Wait & hope for what?  

No I don't think you should do that.  If you wanted to do that, you wouldn't be asking a question here.  You would be carrying on as you have been.  

You clearly want something to change but you seem to be afraid to say it out loud.  So figure out what you want:  marriage?  to be officially acknowledged as his GF or SO? to live together?  

What is it that you want?  When you figure that out, tell him.  Ask him to give it to you but will have to act / to say something / to do something.  If you continue on in silence you will simply get more of the same.  If you want change, you will have to effectuate that change.  

[takefiveely]

@TeeDee This is perhaps exactly what I needed to hear.  I’ve struggled a lot with fear over the course of my life (childhood trauma).  Funny in that I’ve even admitted that to this guy, but you’re right in that I’ve stopped short of telling him what I want.  I think partly because I want to see him make a move, but also because I’ve been afraid to be fully vulnerable.  Thank you for this.  💜

[TeeDee]

After 30 years, don't think it's time?  

If you say you want X (whatever that is) and he doesn't give it to maybe that will help you disconnect.   If he gives it to you then you get what you wanted & that should make you happy, right? 

[takefiveely]

@TeeDee  It’s definitely time, and you’re absolutely right.  I feel the clarity lightbulb going off.  I appreciate you.  Thank you, truly.  💜

[Cherylyn]

Have a conversation about this if you're referring to marriage.  He can't read your mind.  Don't hold out for hope.  Pick his brain,  ask him questions,  get answers and know what his intentions are.  If you don't speak up,  you'll have to just hope and everything will remain the same. 

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, takefiveely said:

 The point is, we keep being drawn to one another, despite significant relationships we’ve each had.

Only in your head. You pictured some perfect man who is your "soulmate" and will marry you eventually like in some rom-com movie. While in reality, he doesnt want to even have a relationship with you, let alone marry you. That is why I said you need heavy therapy to realize some things before you move on. 

[takefiveely]

@Kwothe28 Sounds like you’re projecting, and again, making assumptions. You have no idea what I picture in my mind and it’s not all in my head, as he and I have actually talked about it, multiple times. Sorry life has treated you so bad that you project your own crap onto others. Thanks but no thanks for the “advice”.  We are at an impasse. You've made your point, and I've made mine. Time to tip our hats and say "Have a good day."

[catfeeder]

32 minutes ago, takefiveely said:

…he and I have actually talked about it, multiple times.

Okay, good. Where did these conversations take you, and what do you perceive as the barriers to having what you want with this man?

[rainbowsandroses]

8 hours ago, takefiveely said:

 

I’m a 52F, never married. In my early 20s I met this guy and there was this immediate attraction and intense chemistry we both later admitted to. One evening, we had quite memorable sex in his car. That night was the beginning of a lifelong on again / off again “relationship” that has lasted our entire lives, ebbed and flowed many times and has survived/surpassed all other relationships we’ve both had. We have stimulating intellectual conversations which last hours on end and many, many times have watched the sunrise together after spending all night talking. We also have amazing, toe-curling, exciting and exhausting sex. We match each other’s intensity and seem to naturally speak the same sexual language and anticipate one another’s needs, wants and desires. We have gone years without seeing one another, moved on to other relationships, fought passionately and angrily, yet always seem to find our way back to each other. The companionship and sex is just that good, we feed each other’s fire, so to speak. We’ve both admitted to love, jealousy we’ve felt when one of us has been in another relationship, and we’ve both felt we must have been connected to each other in a past life. Despite all of this, we’ve never been in an official relationship status with one another. I have always loved him and he knows this.  Should I continue to wait / hope?

@takefiveelyCan you or someone post this^ in block text so I can read it without having to use a scroll bar to scroll through the post?

I have never seen this before, thanks.

[rainbowsandroses]

2 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@takefiveelyCan your or someone post this^ in block text so I can read it without having to use a scroll bar to scroll through the post?

I have never seen this before, thanks.

Okay, nevermind, I am able to read it normally from my phone.

[rainbowsandroses]

8 hours ago, smackie9 said:

When a man knows he wants to commit to a woman, he makes sure she knows. 

IMO, this^ is not always true especially when said man does not believe the woman (in this case OP) wants a commitment herself.  At least not with him for whatever reason.  In his mind anyway. 

@takefiveely, Despite your many conversations, HE may believe it's YOU who does not want a commitment or even a relationship since you've never expressed a desire to have one and seem perfectly okay with this on/off arrangement and the status quo.

So why should HE put himself on the line and make himself vulnerable to you, when you seem perfectly fine with the situation as is?  It works both ways.

I agree with @TeeDee.  Talk to him openly and honestly.  Tell him you are wanting that long overdue "relationship" with him and gauge his response.  

You say you fear being vulnerable but you posted you've been in a few committed relationships over the years, were you not fearful of being vulnerable with those men?

[Batya33]

Consider this - maybe I'm assuming but did your child achieve a college degree, magna cum laude, by choosing fear over pursuing a dream? 

[takefiveely]

@catfeeder We have both admitted feelings for one another and admiration of one another.  We both admit to hating when we fall out of touch or when we’ve had arguments or misunderstandings.  There is a level of comfort with one another which can’t be denied.  We seem to struggle with two things, one of which is how we argue.  He tends to push and I tend to withdraw.  We’ve recently had an “ah-ha” revelation and breakthrough in that area though.  He has apologized for exploding and not giving me a chance to collect my thoughts before engaging in verbal warfare.  I have admitted that childhood trauma (which I am currently in counseling for) tends to make me avoid conflict and isolate / withdraw.  We both feel better understood in this area now and realize how it has affected our “relationship” over the years and this area feels healed (though recognizing this will take continued effort and understanding).  The other area / issue is romance.  It isn’t that there isn’t a deep caring for one another (we definitely do), but because there was sex (all those years ago) before romance or courting, it’s difficult to backtrack or reverse.  We have both said that our encounter in his car back in our 20’s isn’t something we regret because it was “amazing” but we both know that it really affected / altered how we did / did not move forward.  So perhaps there is some regret, but neither of us would want for that experience to have never happened.  We’re just missing the development of romance.  We can hug for an hour, we can kiss (but I stopped because kissing is intimate for me), we can listen and be there for one another.  We spend hours on the phone (I’ve stopped inviting him over).  Several years ago I stopped kissing and then stopped allowing him to come over because my feelings were becoming too intense.  We then had a big argument and have recently re-connected AGAIN and discussed all of the above, but I’m afraid to allow him to come over.  He told me he should have told me he loved me.  I sobbed.  I know we have something there,   I’m just afraid to open up again.  I feel like he may be open to giving us a chance (but he has not specifically stated this).  I also feel like he wants to take it slow - which I understand because intentional slowness can provide a space for romance to plant a seed and bloom.  We both prefer for things to happen organically and not planned which is why this is like an elephant in the room that neither of us is discussing.  This is why I’ve asked here in this forum if I should wait (to see if something comes from this).  I want to, but I’m afraid.  It’s difficult to keep those fears in check while allowing time to see what happens and sit in that uncomfortableness.   I appreciate all the responses here as I try to navigate this with some feedback from others.  

[Batya33]

" I feel like he may be open to giving us a chance (but he has not specifically stated this).  I also feel like he wants to take it slow - which I understand because intentional slowness can provide a space for romance to plant a seed and bloom.  We both prefer for things to happen organically and not planned which is why this is like an elephant in the room that neither of us is discussing.  This is why I’ve asked here in this forum if I should wait (to see if something comes from this).  I want to, but I’m afraid.  It’s difficult to keep those fears in check while allowing time to see what happens and sit in that uncomfortableness.   I appreciate all the responses here as I try to navigate this with some feedback from others.  "

My sense is you are framing this as "oh planning is overrated let it happen organically" because that way you can keep spinning tales in your head of how even though he didn't "specifically state" he wants to be with you - it's because he's not a planner and how awesome it is to "let it happen" organically (whatever it is). For sure you do you but if you take this passive approach you won't have the information you want.  Information is power.  Sitting in uncomfortableness is also the safe way out. 

You are not me.  When my future husband and I got back together after almost 8 years apart we grew our second chance relationship organically in one way and within a structure in the other way because we knew in our late 30s we didn't want to waste time reading tea leaves -we wanted eventual marriage and family.

  So we had tons of spontaneity, adventures and still do - but first he said on our third platonic evening out in about a months time "do you want to get back together."  For 30-60 seconds I was scared! I get it- fear- fear of being vulnerable, messing up again as we had years earlier, all of it.  But what i wanted far more was closeness to him and a second chance of being together so I said YES. 

8-10 words.  Two-three minutes. Yeah yeah everyone is different but in general people who want to be together organially or with stevia or planned to the hilt - make it work and they are together and they both want the other to know absolutely 100% they are together lest they let that special person slip through their fingers and get snapped up by someone else. 

[takefiveely]

@rainbowsandroses There is some truth to what you’ve said.  My childhood trauma (lots of fears) only recently came to light about 5 years ago when I started experiencing panic attacks (mostly when hearing people yell or argue and whether or not it involves me).  I did tell him back in 2017 that I’ve spent my life being afraid to tell him how I feel - and I also told him at that time that I loved him.  I told him that with no expectation of hearing it back.  In fact, in a way, I didn’t want him to say it back - because I didn’t want to feel he was only saying it because I did.  Regarding being vulnerable with other men, the best I can explain is this.  It was more difficult for me to be vulnerable with him than anyone else, by far.  Likely because the feelings ran much deeper for a much longer length of time for him.  I do need to talk with him again though and tell him what I want.  He may now know how I’ve felt, but I can see he may not fully know what I want.  

[takefiveely]

@Batya33 I hear you. No, my daughter did not choose fear, and I’m not using this as an excuse, but my daughter doesn’t struggle with PTSD like I do either.  I am in counseling for it, both individual and group therapy to work to overcome all these fears.  I am trying, but it’s a process, and it’s difficult.  This guy only just learned about the PTSD because it was diagnosed subsequent to when we were last spending time together.  It has shined a light on some of our difficulties and we are both feeling like we understand some of the dynamics of our relationship better now.  It’s a good place to be in and I think we are both feeling better about what our “relationship” has been now.  Facing my fears needs to be done, but done carefully as having panic attacks sets me back.  Posting here in this forum has helped me to sort through some of this and helped me to see that another heart-to-heart conversation with him is needed.  I can now work towards making that happen.   

[Batya33]

9 minutes ago, takefiveely said:

@Batya33 I hear you. No, my daughter did not choose fear, and I’m not using this as an excuse, but my daughter doesn’t struggle with PTSD like I do either.  I am in counseling for it, both individual and group therapy to work to overcome all these fears.  I am trying, but it’s a process, and it’s difficult.  This guy only just learned about the PTSD because it was diagnosed subsequent to when we were last spending time together.  It has shined a light on some of our difficulties and we are both feeling like we understand some of the dynamics of our relationship better now.  It’s a good place to be in and I think we are both feeling better about what our “relationship” has been now.  Facing my fears needs to be done, but done carefully as having panic attacks sets me back.  Posting here in this forum has helped me to sort through some of this and helped me to see that another heart-to-heart conversation with him is needed.  I can now work towards making that happen.   

After 30 years it requires "work" to communicate openly to a person you say you are so connected to? I understand if you mean because you're anxious it could trigger a panic attack.  I'm sorry you have mental health struggles.  That to me is really important information here. Sounds like you are in general not available for an intimate serious romantic relationship and this person's unavailability is a safe way to yearn and pine and be emotionally intimate -but from a distance without being truly vulnerable. 

Of course the prospect of a panic attack -let alone having one -is terrifying! 

[rainbowsandroses]

Just something to consider but do you think the reason (or one reason) why the feelings/emotions are so intense with this man unlike any other man is precisely because it's so fraught with ups and downs, highs and lows, passionate fighting, breakups, reconciliations and other such drama?  

It's been this way for 30 years, how do you think suddenly being in a committed relationship will feel and be after all these years of such high passion, highs and lows and uncertainty?

It sort of reminds of the movie "Goodfellas," different premise obviously but the relationship/marriage between Henry and Karen Hill was fraught with these same ups and downs, highs and lows, passionate fights, breakups, reconciliations and high drama.

Karen even admitted she found this exciting and it's what kept her attracted and madly in love with Henry all those years!

After they entered the Witness Protection Program, their life and relationship changed, it became hum drum, no more highs and lows, no more fights, breakups and passionate reconciliations.

They both became bored to death with each other and eventually divorced.

Have you thought about this at all?

I dunno, from what I have observed, some relationships (and you are in a relationship just not a committed one), thrive on such drama.  They cannot survive without it.  They both need it like people need air to breathe.

Again, it's been 30 years of this type of dynamic and however dysfunctional it may (or may not) appear to others or even yourselves, something's been working otherwise it would not have lasted 30 years and would have ended for good a long time ago.

Just be sure it IS what you want and you're emotionally ready and prepared for the possible changes that might occur (regardless of whether it's what HE wants too) before you talk to him, that's all.

Good luck.  🙂

 

 

[takefiveely]

@Batya33 It is work for me to openly communicate with anyone, but I’m making great strides and my therapist seems to believe I should not avoid relationships just because I’m in therapy.  I’ve also made great strides in being vulnerable to him as of recently by sharing my feelings both past and present.  I’m not avoiding it, but it does take effort for me to do so as I’m learning and progressing in my therapy.  I struggle to communicate with my own family, but I do.  I can’t just shut down and not have any relationships because I’m in therapy - that’s the opposite of what my therapist is encouraging me to do.  I’m confused why you feel I’m not being vulnerable because I feel like I’m really trying.  Feeling safe is the opposite of feeling vulnerable.  I feel unsafe each time I talk with him about my feelings, but I am talking with him about my feelings, regardless.  So isn’t that being vulnerable?  Yes, I admit I’ve struggled to do that in the past.  He too admitted he should have told me he loved me, but he was scared.  Though not perfect, I think we’re currently at in the best place we’ve ever been in.  We’re also older and more mature.  Is this so terrible?  Am I missing something here?  If two people care about each other, is it not worth seeing if it will work?